Interesting. Love that engine!
In the GM article it said some blocks have a dual bellhousing pattern, both RWD and FWD, but what I'm seeing on Ebay is that the CTS blocks only have the RWD pattern. So, I'm guessing that in FWD applications it has the M6 bellhousing pattern?

Also, in FWD applications literature says 255 HP @ 6500 RPM and 252 ft-lbs tq @ 3400 rpm? I suppose the VVT has something to do with the amount of torque at such a low rpm. In the literature it said 306 hp @ 6500 RPM from a RWD application?

Anybody know what different between the two engines or if the 306 HP was not a production engine?

306 HP is the Direct Injection engine that will be found initially only in the CTS. It's a MY 2008 item.

just tunning any of the 3.6l vvt engines will get u 306hp and i bet if you get the DI vesion that hp would increase even higher.
the reason for the hp differance is size off aplacation and gas mileage.
if all the apps were tuned for peformance no one would buy the cars that are ment for soocker moms who just want gas milage.
thats why they call it the global engine cause it works for every one.

Be careful what you call a tune. On most engines, the tune is fuel + spark calibration. There is no significant power or fuel mileage to be gained over the factory tune in a fixed cam timing engine. The factory tune delivers the best of both worlds, because that's the way the engine runs best and any tune that falls short is just wrong.

On engines with variable cam phasing, remapping the cam timing can have very significant effects on both power and gas mileage, but this is outside the realm of what's commonly understood to be tuning and is a LOT more time intensive.

i was talking about the vvt

[This message has been edited by 3.6lvvt6spdgt (edited 08-10-2007).]

just got an email from west cost fiero their going to do a custom flywheel for me

my dream fiero if i could only find the rims

[This message has been edited by 3.6lvvt6spdgt (edited 08-28-2007).]

prof that the tranny will bolt up

more info 3.6l VVT engine check it out 367hp NA
http://www.f4000.com/tech1.htm
http://www.peters-racing.com/engine-new/

engine swap will continue on the 1st of october this year needed to save money sorry for the wait.

glad you brought this thread back, i haven't seen this before. This looks pretty bitchin' imo lol, i think this is a big contender for my future (distant future) engine swap. I hope you get this all worked out and running good so we can all steal your plans hehe. Its stuff like this that makes me love fiero's even more Cant wait to see the end results.

Oh and uh... you mentioned your aiming for 700-1000+HP in the end?... All that power in a mid-engine car is gunna be flippin crazy haha. Imagine driving that w/o a wheelie bar haha.

[This message has been edited by kawana (edited 09-08-2007).]

ive decide to keep the hp below 600hp for my trannys sake, if any one decides to do this swap and go for the 1000hp get and auto transmission built for dragracing. the manual transmissions cant handle the Tourqe.

Nice engine. I would do the 3.6 or an LS4 in my next swap.

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bump

FWD and RWD engine are not the same on the outside!
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I have replaced several 3.6L in CTS's.

The last 3.6L GM sent was for a FWD. I had to change the Timing cover, oil pan and balancer. The oil pan is different on the front side for mounting the accessories. The timing cover is flatter. The balancer only has a place for 1 belt. A RWD has two belts and this means the accessories are staggered on the front cover.

FWD



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RWD

i dont know what your trying to add, but the picture is of the trans you said goes on the fwd 3.6l vvt and i might be wrong about some things on the rwd 3.6vvt but it is the same block is it not. so with swapping parts from block to block is possable.
so agin i will post the tranny pic but a zoomed in on the data in the rite corner.

and i dont know why you posted the pic of the ecotec tranny its not the same.

quote Originally posted by 3.6lvvt6spdgt: if you look they are not the same top 3.6l vvt. bottom ecotec not even close

Is that the old ecotech bolt pattern or the new GM Global bolt pattern used on the Ecotech in current production.


I will post a picture of the 3.6L sitting in my stall.

[This message has been edited by AJxtcman (edited 09-25-2007).]

http://members.shaw.ca/bett...ng_bolt_patterns.htm
here is a list of all GM bellhousings take a look. and the 3.6l was mad to fit 2 differnt typs of trannys fwd and rwd. so thats the reason for the confusing pattern on the block. the reason its hard to see the gm metric patter is because the engine sits at an angle in the fwd apps.

[This message has been edited by 3.6lvvt6spdgt (edited 09-21-2007).]

The engine is in a crate. I reinstalled the screws in the crate. The crate is against the wall. I can't get the top off the crate because of it.

I found a used floor mat this morning. They are made from heavy paper and a thin plastic on the back side. I had to crumple it up some to get it inside of the crate. Now picture this semi dirty and wrinkled piece of paper in this crate. I poked a hole in it on one side and started rubbing over the dual pattern bolt pattern. This floor mat worked great except the dirt and wrinkles. I headed up to the front of the dealership to get a new one and got side tracked. I will go in to morrow and do it. I can tell you that the RWD bolt pattern is on the outside of the other bolt pattern and they share some holes.

that would be cool id like to see that. hope it turns out well.

Ok
I have argued this bell-housing bolt pattern before and lost. I said it had a goofy bolt pattern and someone else said it had a GM Global bolt pattern and that it was the same as an Ecotech 06+ pattern used with the manual trans.

The 3.6L has atleast two bolt patterns and in no way will it match up to an Ecotech that I had listed. So I was wrong again.

[This message has been edited by AJxtcman (edited 09-25-2007).]

thats a good rubbing but still confusing do you have a fwd transmission out of one of these cars or a picture of it attached would be better. i know that the lacrosse is a 4-speed 4T65-E automatic tranny and Ive only seen one bolt patern for that transmission
2004 Buick Rendezvous CXL/Ultra
2005 Buick LaCrosse CXS
2007 Saturn Aura XR
2007 Saturn Outlook
2007 Pontiac G6 GTP
2007 GMC Acadia

3.8L 4T65E


3.6L 4T65E


Aura 6T70E?



FWD bolt pattern ??

[This message has been edited by AJxtcman (edited 09-25-2007).]

well thank you for the info you just saved me a ton of money realy. although it would work if you had the flywheel and f40 tranny out of the newer sabb 9-3 2.8l vvt its the same block but with a manual and a 6spd at that.

wait, so, how many horses does the 2.8l vvt put out?

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If you can't be good, be good at it.

quote Originally posted by 3.6lvvt6spdgt: well thank you for the info you just saved me a ton of money realy. although it would work if you had the flywheel and f40 tranny out of the newer sabb 9-3 2.8l vvt its the same block but with a manual and a 6spd at that.

Cadillac 2.8L comes with a 5 speed auto or manual

[This message has been edited by AJxtcman (edited 09-25-2007).]

Put the Saab turbo setup on a 3.6 if you can find one of the Saab engines...

Is the crank/flexplate bolting the same as the Northstar?

quote Originally posted by fierodeletre: wait, so, how many horses does the 2.8l vvt put out?

IIRC, the naturally aspirated 2.8 vvt puts out about 205, 210 horsepower and not much less torque.

quote Originally posted by XzotikGT: Is the crank/flexplate bolting the same as the Northstar?

No

So, just to clarify - the G6 six speed will bolt up to an 06 and up ecotec?

would be thesame as the 3800 then? or its it a all new 8 bolt pattern?

its a all new patern but the saab 9-3 has the same engine only it has the new 6spd f40 so if you can find the tranny this would be the ultamate fiero swap i am still going to try to get this in my fiero but its going to take a long time like a year or so.
i have the engine electronics worked out and with a turbo it would have 425hp and a daily driver but i cant find the saab 6spd tranny any where if any one knows where i can get one with the cluch and flywheel let me know.

I ran out of time trying to finish my 3900 swap and my mom let me borrow her Saturn Aura with the 3.6 DOHC until I can get back home in about a month. Whatever you do, unless you can get equipment to drastically improve the 6spd auto shifting character and program the throttle body to match your input and not what the computer says, you will want to do away with both of them.

The car has good power but the defiant response on moderate acceleration on the interstate for example is annoying, you nearly have to apply 3/4 throttle for it to respond otherwise it takes its sweet time to go from say 55 mph to 60 instead of the instant a little throttle input should take as if the PCM is asking repeatedly "are you sure". The system also has a nasty habit of lugging the engine a good bit before finally kicking down a gear or two when accelerating and manual tip tronic shifting is no fun because it's not fast enough to be worth while.

It's not a Saturn problem, my first experience with drive by wire was worse in a Nissan Murano, it had almost no smooth take off transition as if the the throttle was stepped to high and again pedal input to throttle response was awful, making me think "GO da....!". This technology is for the benefit of the manufacturer not the customer and you can be sure it's geared towards taming driving habits to well within the warranty coverage.

the way i had this engine configed was a manual tb and a manual f40 tranns no guid by wire and no autoshift

so the CTS six speed clutch and flywheel is a no-go also?

it might if you used the f40 for the saab 9-3