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3.6l swap by 3.6lvvt6spdgt
Started on: 07-06-2007 04:30 AM
Replies: 122
Last post by: Raydar on 08-10-2010 11:56 PM
3.6lvvt6spdgt
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Report this Post09-26-2007 01:29 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 3.6lvvt6spdgtSend a Private Message to 3.6lvvt6spdgtDirect Link to This Post
the only tranny you can use with these engines are the ones that have the custom bolt patern this engine the new global patern not ecotec not 3800 not northstar the rwd patern is there but you need to find the fwd tranny that came on one of the vvt's made by holden aka 3.6l 2.8l 2.8lTurbo all VVT DOHC also known as the LY7, LP1. and the new DI LLT.

USED IN ALL THESE.

LY7

2004 Cadillac CTS
2004 Buick Rendezvous CXL/Ultra
2004 Cadillac SRX
2004 Holden VZ Commodore
2005 Buick LaCrosse CXS
2005 Cadillac STS
2006 Holden VE Commodore
2006 Holden WM Statesman
2006 Holden WM Caprice
2007 Saturn Aura XR
2007 Saturn Outlook
2007 Pontiac G6 GTP
2007 GMC Acadia
2008 Buick Enclave
2008 Chevrolet Malibu
2008 Pontiac G8
2008 Chevrolet Equinox (Sport model)
2008 Pontiac Torrent (GXP)

LP1

2005–2007 Cadillac CTS

LP1 TURBO

2007 Cadillac BLS
2006 Opel Vectra
2006 Opel Signum
2006 Saab 9-3

LLT

2008 Cadillac CTS
2008 Cadillac STS
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AJxtcman
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Report this Post09-26-2007 12:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for AJxtcmanSend a Private Message to AJxtcmanDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 3.6lvvt6spdgt:

the only tranny you can use with these engines are the ones that have the custom bolt patern this engine the new global patern not ecotec not 3800 not northstar the rwd patern is there but you need to find the fwd tranny that came on one of the vvt's made by holden aka 3.6l 2.8l 2.8lTurbo all VVT DOHC also known as the LY7, LP1. and the new DI LLT.



Not Holden, Not Saab, Not Opel, Not Caddy!
The engine is manufactured at least 5 facilities and 4 countries.
This is very old info and is not completely correct any more.
http://216.182.211.32/techl...TLfeb04e.html#story7
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XzotikGT
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Report this Post09-26-2007 10:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for XzotikGTClick Here to visit XzotikGT's HomePageSend a Private Message to XzotikGTDirect Link to This Post
perfect for a triple disk then, huh?
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XzotikGT
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Report this Post10-01-2007 06:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for XzotikGTClick Here to visit XzotikGT's HomePageSend a Private Message to XzotikGTDirect Link to This Post
what is the O.D. of the flexplate and the center hole?
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Report this Post10-03-2007 06:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for XzotikGTClick Here to visit XzotikGT's HomePageSend a Private Message to XzotikGTDirect Link to This Post
ttt
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Report this Post10-03-2007 06:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Formula88Send a Private Message to Formula88Direct Link to This Post
How about the 6-speed auto that comes with the 3.6 in the new G6 GXP? (I think the 6-speed manual has been discontinued)
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Report this Post10-11-2007 10:53 AM Click Here to See the Profile for XzotikGTClick Here to visit XzotikGT's HomePageSend a Private Message to XzotikGTDirect Link to This Post
is the fwd intake manifold variable like the rear wheel drive version. mine looks different than the one in the mech tech picture. like its missing something.
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Fiero Brick
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Report this Post10-19-2007 12:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Fiero BrickSend a Private Message to Fiero BrickDirect Link to This Post
What 6 speed manual transmission is attached to the 2.8 turbo in the Saab 9-3 Aero? F40? A derivative thereof? Does it have the same bolt pattern as the 3.6? (I assume it does, but I prefer not to guesstimate.)
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Report this Post10-19-2007 01:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Austrian ImportSend a Private Message to Austrian ImportDirect Link to This Post
I think the biggest benefit of DI (direct injection) is the increased low end torque. Every engine I've looked at that has DI (brand independent) has insane low end torque. Is that from the cooling effect of DI, or just being able to dial the timing that much more precise with everything being metered correctly?

 
quote
Originally posted by Joseph Upson:
It's not a Saturn problem, my first experience with drive by wire was worse in a Nissan Murano, it had almost no smooth take off transition as if the the throttle was stepped to high and again pedal input to throttle response was awful, making me think "GO da....!". This technology is for the benefit of the manufacturer not the customer and you can be sure it's geared towards taming driving habits to well within the warranty coverage.


Keep in mind to that the Nissan Murano has a CVT (gearless tranny), so it's a different animal all together. (That nissan engine would be sweet though Vq-35 IIRC. Love that throaty sound (stock) :dreaming back to topic.

Damn, I was hoping that engine and tranny choices would be easier once GM is doing cost saving global powerplants. And that doesn't even include the headaches from the engine management system yet.
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Fiero Brick
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Report this Post10-19-2007 01:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Fiero BrickSend a Private Message to Fiero BrickDirect Link to This Post
A lot of that increased low end torque is from the increased compression ratio that can be run with direct injection. I mean, 11.4:1 compression on regular unleaded is amazing.
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Report this Post10-19-2007 03:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillSend a Private Message to WillDirect Link to This Post
The Audi FSI V8 in the S4 is running 12.9, but I think it requires premium.
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Report this Post10-19-2007 08:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for XzotikGTClick Here to visit XzotikGT's HomePageSend a Private Message to XzotikGTDirect Link to This Post
Two companies I know of can tune the stock PCM from the 3.6 to get rid of torque management to make the throttle act like it should. Thay can do all the stuff necessary to get this thing to run in the Fiero. They can do your harness for you. Also, one of them I have talked to has a tune that is Dyno proven 15 extra horses to the wheels in a CTS, and he is willing to tune for boost. On top of that, both of them are 1/5 the cost of Mechtech.

[This message has been edited by XzotikGT (edited 10-19-2007).]

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Report this Post10-19-2007 08:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for AJxtcmanSend a Private Message to AJxtcmanDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by XzotikGT:

Two companies I know of can tune the stock PCM from the 3.6 to get rid of torque management to make the throttle act like it should. Thay can do all the stuff necessary to get this thing to run in the Fiero. They can do your harness for you. Also, one of them I have talked to has a tune that is Dyno proven 15 extra horses to the wheels in a CTS, and he is willing to tune for boost. On top of that, both of them are 1/5 the cost of Mechtech.






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Report this Post10-19-2007 11:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for merlot566jkaSend a Private Message to merlot566jkaDirect Link to This Post
i work for cadillac....i have some advice for you that will save you some heart ache

invest in more timing chains.

in the past week weve had 3 reseals (leaking oil since its a modular engine)

weve had 2 crank and cam sensor issues ( which ended up to be the cam timing chains and the intemediate timing chain stretching and allowing there to be more than 1/4 inch of slack) replacing these chains requires some extensive training and at least $600 in tools. I know the tools needed and can get you to a point where you can purchase them. the gm si's are incorrect on the replacement procedures, so dont try to use them. the tech video and a direct line to cadillac tech center is the only way your going to accomplish proper service on this vehicle for awhile!

weve had 6 oil cooler leaks on cts's, be aware!

and last, if you use the drive by wire system, know taht there are numerous failures on the tps and app

hope ive helped!

[This message has been edited by merlot566jka (edited 10-19-2007).]

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XzotikGT
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Report this Post10-20-2007 12:40 AM Click Here to See the Profile for XzotikGTClick Here to visit XzotikGT's HomePageSend a Private Message to XzotikGTDirect Link to This Post
Yeah, Thanks to AJ
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Report this Post10-20-2007 04:44 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Austrian ImportSend a Private Message to Austrian ImportDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Fiero Brick:

A lot of that increased low end torque is from the increased compression ratio that can be run with direct injection. I mean, 11.4:1 compression on regular unleaded is amazing.


True, I forgot to mention. Compression is greater too.
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Joseph Upson
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Report this Post10-20-2007 10:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Joseph UpsonSend a Private Message to Joseph UpsonDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Austrian Import:

I think the biggest benefit of DI (direct injection) is the increased low end torque. Every engine I've looked at that has DI (brand independent) has insane low end torque. Is that from the cooling effect of DI, or just being able to dial the timing that much more precise with everything being metered correctly?


Keep in mind to that the Nissan Murano has a CVT (gearless tranny), so it's a different animal all together. (That nissan engine would be sweet though Vq-35 IIRC. Love that throaty sound (stock) :dreaming back to topic.

Damn, I was hoping that engine and tranny choices would be easier once GM is doing cost saving global powerplants. And that doesn't even include the headaches from the engine management system yet.


Although I doubt it had anything to do with the gearless transmission, the response on take off was unacceptable and an indication there was a problem or an inherent nature of the newness of the technology introduced with bugs that haven't quite been worked out, it was so abrupt I'm sure there was a problem. I have noticed a similar issue with the Saturn 3.6L though it's not nearly as bad and more like catching the computer off guard, often quite a bit of hiccuping goes on when a series of multiple throttle changes take place such as in stop and go traffic. I don't think the most inexperienced person with drivetrain characteristics would have any problem with pointing out at least in the symptoms I have experienced that drive by wire is not as smooth in the two examples I gave as drive by cable.

If the engine and transmission each have their own computer that may be part of the problem, the data processing. Despite the power of the 3.6L it has a problem maintaining steady speed with cruise control engaged and I attribute that to either programming issues or gearing. Without exaggeration my Fiero held cruise control speeds much more accurately.

As mentioned, perhaps it's a TPS problem which will certainly affect acceleration characteristics especially when the PCM is actually making the throttle adjustment. There should be little to no difference as far as the engine itself is concerned between the applications so any of the cars using the 3.6L should be subject to the same engine problems seen with the Cadillac.

Drive one of these vehicles for about a day or two over a sufficient number of miles and you will probably note the issues I mentioned.
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Report this Post10-20-2007 10:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for AJxtcmanSend a Private Message to AJxtcmanDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by merlot566jka:

i work for cadillac....i have some advice for you that will save you some heart ache

invest in more timing chains.

in the past week weve had 3 reseals (leaking oil since its a modular engine)

weve had 2 crank and cam sensor issues ( which ended up to be the cam timing chains and the intemediate timing chain stretching and allowing there to be more than 1/4 inch of slack) replacing these chains requires some extensive training and at least $600 in tools. I know the tools needed and can get you to a point where you can purchase them. the gm si's are incorrect on the replacement procedures, so dont try to use them. the tech video and a direct line to cadillac tech center is the only way your going to accomplish proper service on this vehicle for awhile!

weve had 6 oil cooler leaks on cts's, be aware!

and last, if you use the drive by wire system, know taht there are numerous failures on the tps and app

hope ive helped!




3.6L do not have oil coolers.

07 3.6L had some early production Timing chain problem. So many went out with bad chains ( non hardened )

If you have done ten or so you would understand the redundancy in the timing chain procedure.

better yet check it before you take one a part. Do this on an engine that does not have a Timing chain problem.

By this time I bet every 07 has been fixed since they failed with in the first 10k

[This message has been edited by AJxtcman (edited 10-20-2007).]

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Report this Post12-13-2007 11:01 AM Click Here to See the Profile for AJxtcmanSend a Private Message to AJxtcmanDirect Link to This Post
Food for thought


The Torana Legend Lives Again
Australian International Motor Show, 7 October 2004: Holden today revived a famous Australian nameplate when it took the covers off a sensational show car called Torana TT36.


Holden drew on General Motors' global resources to build the hot pink Torana TT36, which is powered by an experimental 280kW twin turbo 3.6 litre Alloytec V6 engine, sports a glass roof and showcases bold directional design themes.

Not for production, this mid-sized hatch concept demonstrates the strength and versatility of Holden's design talent to a worldwide audience and emphasises its ability to react swiftly to changing customer demand.

Torana TT36 highlights Holden's rear wheel drive powertrain engineering expertise and the practical benefits to be gained by sharing GM global suspension and chassis components and modular structural systems.

The new millennium hot hatch pays homage to Holden's Bathurst-winning icon car of the seventies, the Torana A9X. It is 25 years since the revered V8-powered Torana A9X last conquered Mount Panorama and wrote itself into Australian automotive legend.

Holden Chairman and Managing Director, Denny Mooney, today said he believed the Torana's spiritual successor showed how times continued to change in the automotive industry.

"Torana TT36 represents a revolution in concept car design at Holden. We've unveiled several examples of our design flexibility and build capability in recent years but this car is exceptional for yet another reason," Mr Mooney said.

"All recent showcars have been based on our Commodore V-car platform. Torana TT36, on the other hand, shares many basic structural elements with the latest GM sports concepts and much of its chassis componentry is sourced directly from GM.

"It is the first Holden showcar to merge Australian design and engineering expertise with GM technical resources. Quite simply, for us it is a 'game changer' in automotive design and production.

"Naming the concept car was easy. We knew many fans would immediately call it Torana because it is a high powered, mid-size, rear wheel drive hot hatch. The TT36 stands for Twin Turbo 3.6."

The twenty-first century Torana has slingshot performance potential. Its experimental 3.6 litre twin turbo Alloytec V6, hand-built at Holden's new Port Melbourne engine plant, produces 280kW of power, transferred to the tarmac via a heavy-duty six speed manual transmission.

http://www.holden.com.au/ww...eptcar?modelid=20004
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3.6lvvt6spdgt
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Report this Post12-16-2007 04:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 3.6lvvt6spdgtSend a Private Message to 3.6lvvt6spdgtDirect Link to This Post
the 3.6lvvt is a nice engine but exspecive to do if tou want the manual 6spd you need the tranny out of saab 9-3 2.8l vvt turbo 2007to2008
if i were you i would go with the auto 6spd and get a tranny controller it can hanndle more hourses and easyer to find this engine has its own bolt pattern it is not like any other. as far as ecm are
concerned if you try to go with stock you will need a lot of prats from the donor car and a ton of ecm tunning there is a aftermarket ecu but i dont know if it will be street leagl. here is the link.
and this engine is called the newstar not the shortstar btw
this setup was to rich for my blood 10.000+ i went with a differant swap
here is the peps that have any info you need and supply ecms
http://www.mechtech-ms.com/offRoadEngines.php
here is my other swap
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/087040.html
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3.6lvvt6spdgt
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Report this Post03-05-2008 11:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 3.6lvvt6spdgtSend a Private Message to 3.6lvvt6spdgtDirect Link to This Post
sorry to bring up old topics but i finaly found a tranny this is a F40 6spd out of a 2007 saab 9-3 turbo 2.8l vvt it will work with the 3.6l vvt engine for the ultamate v6 fiero swap.




eventualy i will begin this swap its going to be a while due to my other project https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/087040.html as soon as i have this engine done i will be selling the 3.4l turbo and swapping in the 3.6l vvt.

[This message has been edited by 3.6lvvt6spdgt (edited 03-06-2008).]

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Report this Post03-06-2008 02:18 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Rickady88GTSend a Private Message to Rickady88GTDirect Link to This Post
Hard to tell, but does that tranny have the deep bell for the duel mass flywheel?

------------------

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Report this Post03-06-2008 06:43 AM Click Here to See the Profile for AJxtcmanSend a Private Message to AJxtcmanDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 3.6lvvt6spdgt:

sorry to bring up old topics but i finaly found a tranny this is a F40 6spd out of a 2007 saab 9-3 turbo 2.8l vvt it will work with the 3.6l vvt engine for the ultamate v6 fiero swap.



eventualy i will begin this swap its going to be a while due to my other project https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/087040.html as soon as i have this engine done i will be selling the 3.4l turbo and swapping in the 3.6l vvt.



WOW I love it
Now I know the other bolt pattern

[This message has been edited by AJxtcman (edited 03-06-2008).]

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Will
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Report this Post03-06-2008 07:03 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillSend a Private Message to WillDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 3.6lvvt6spdgt:

sorry to bring up old topics but i finaly found a tranny this is a F40 6spd out of a 2007 saab 9-3 turbo 2.8l vvt it will work with the 3.6l vvt engine for the ultamate v6 fiero swap.




Where'd you find that and how long were you looking? What happened to the turbo hardware from that car?

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Report this Post03-06-2008 07:31 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Blue ShiftSend a Private Message to Blue ShiftDirect Link to This Post
I've seen one or two 2.8T Saab engines around on Car-part.com, and one 6 speed. I think it'd kick ass to put all the 2.8T management on the 3.6 - I wonder how the engine management would handle the bigger displacement and higher compression? Different cams?
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Report this Post03-06-2008 02:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Steven SnyderClick Here to visit Steven Snyder's HomePageSend a Private Message to Steven SnyderDirect Link to This Post
I'd imagine you could put the 2.8 cams in the 3.6 if its worth it..
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Report this Post03-06-2008 04:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 3.6lvvt6spdgtSend a Private Message to 3.6lvvt6spdgtDirect Link to This Post
yes the cams swap almost every thing will swap over and you cant use the stock ecm i dont think.
also you will have to use the saab flywheel and clutch. fyi

[This message has been edited by 3.6lvvt6spdgt (edited 03-06-2008).]

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SpeedWorksAutoTuning
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Report this Post04-02-2008 09:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SpeedWorksAutoTuningSend a Private Message to SpeedWorksAutoTuningDirect Link to This Post
I was going to go logitudinal with mine, but you may have just changed my mind.

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S.W.A.T.

1984-87 Aluminum Cradle bushings $85.oo
1984-81 UMHW Rear control arm bushings $85.oo

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Report this Post05-22-2008 12:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SpeedWorksAutoTuningSend a Private Message to SpeedWorksAutoTuningDirect Link to This Post
pending more investigation, but i think the four cylinder 5 and 6 speed trannies from the 07+ 9-3 has the same bolt pattern. Also, i think it goes back even further than that. I saw a picture of a quad four tranny and it looked pretty close too.
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Report this Post07-05-2008 12:15 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Joseph UpsonSend a Private Message to Joseph UpsonDirect Link to This Post
If I had the cash and the time I would definately make this my next swap. It has long been apparent to me that the Saab cars have the necessary hardware to make the 3.6 F40 combination work. Below is a picture of a Saab F40 flywheel that appears to be a dual mass piece as well as having the same pressure plate bolt pattern found on the G6 dual mass flywheel. It also has the same number of bolt holes for flywheel mounting as found on the 3.6L crankshaft flange.

Having already proved it possible with the 3900, it should also be possible to mechanically lock the cam phasers into the appropriate position on the 3.6L to eliminate the VVT until a more practical option short of swapping in the dash components and other items from the donor car to take advantage of it comes along.

There is no reason I can see that should prevent this engine from running like the 3.4 DOHC engine using it's PCM which would be the best optional approach to engine management for a start.

I've not yet seen a CTS manual flywheel for the 3.6 but I have a sneaky suspicion it is dual mass because I drove a 6spd caddi about a week ago and noticed the same clanky noise and feel in the drivetrain that the dual mass flywheel in my setup has. I thought it was a bit tacky for a caddilac.


[This message has been edited by Joseph Upson (edited 10-12-2008).]

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Report this Post09-24-2008 08:14 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 3.6lvvt6spdgtSend a Private Message to 3.6lvvt6spdgtDirect Link to This Post
i hate to see this thread die lots of good information here.
if you want to do this swap call or email these guys they have all the bits to make it run at 305bhp. and they have a turbo setup to.
http://www.mechtech-ms.com/ctsv6.php
also i hear there is a supercharger for it now to.
http://www.cadillacforums.c...c-forum/t-11211.html
i cant wait to do this swap. if i only had the cash
i just looked at car-part.com and there are a lot of 3.6l for sale in the 1000.00 dollar range.

[This message has been edited by 3.6lvvt6spdgt (edited 09-24-2008).]

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Report this Post10-06-2008 05:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillSend a Private Message to WillDirect Link to This Post
bump
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Report this Post10-11-2008 08:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillSend a Private Message to WillDirect Link to This Post
Is there a dimensioned drawing floating around somewhere of the 3.6 bellhousing?
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Report this Post10-11-2008 10:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 3.6lvvt6spdgtSend a Private Message to 3.6lvvt6spdgtDirect Link to This Post
no but if you look above you can see the patern is the gm global NOT the eco-tech
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thegreep
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Report this Post03-06-2009 05:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for thegreepSend a Private Message to thegreepDirect Link to This Post
Anything new on this?
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Joseph Upson
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Report this Post03-06-2009 07:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Joseph UpsonSend a Private Message to Joseph UpsonDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by thegreep:

Anything new on this?


There is still some question about the bellhousing, GM lists the 3.6L as bolting to at least two different 6 spd automatics, the 45 series 6 spd carries the odd ball bellhousing, the 65 series 6 spd auto has the same bellhousing as the 60 degree V6. When I checked I found that both of these transmissions were used in the Saturn Aura suggesting that depending on the vehicle and there are many, the 3.6L in some applications may in deed have the old bolt pattern identical to the 2.8L, that is the only way you can bolt the 6T65 to it.

[This message has been edited by Joseph Upson (edited 03-06-2009).]

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Will
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Report this Post03-09-2009 11:12 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillSend a Private Message to WillDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Joseph Upson:


There is still some question about the bellhousing, GM lists the 3.6L as bolting to at least two different 6 spd automatics, the 45 series 6 spd carries the odd ball bellhousing, the 65 series 6 spd auto has the same bellhousing as the 60 degree V6. When I checked I found that both of these transmissions were used in the Saturn Aura suggesting that depending on the vehicle and there are many, the 3.6L in some applications may in deed have the old bolt pattern identical to the 2.8L, that is the only way you can bolt the 6T65 to it.



More likely that they have multiple transmission cases. They did with the 282, for instance.
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fierodeletre
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Report this Post04-08-2009 04:37 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierodeletreSend a Private Message to fierodeletreDirect Link to This Post
So- how do you think the fiero manual CV axles will like the F40's output splines? I know wftb's ecotec swap got lucky in that the F23 was a direct match. Probably wishing for too much if this were the same... Any thoughts?
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Joseph Upson
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Report this Post04-08-2009 07:08 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Joseph UpsonSend a Private Message to Joseph UpsonDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fierodeletre:

So- how do you think the fiero manual CV axles will like the F40's output splines? I know wftb's ecotec swap got lucky in that the F23 was a direct match. Probably wishing for too much if this were the same... Any thoughts?


If he's using the supercharged Ecotec it uses the F35 which has the same axle spline count at the transmission as the F40. It would be the outboard joint that fits the Fiero hub without modifying/hybriding. The F23 should have a different spline count at the transmission since it is important to specify the supercharged engines when looking for these axles because they are different between the F23 & F35 at the inboard joint. The Fiero axles should work in the F23 found in the non supercharged Ecotec powered cars.
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fierodeletre
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Report this Post04-10-2009 05:43 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierodeletreSend a Private Message to fierodeletreDirect Link to This Post
Nah wftb used the 2.2l NA eco in his swap I believe, then later turbocharged the setup, but keeping the stock F23. I think the LSJ with its F35 has a far different Passenger side axle with a jackshaft assembly to counter torque steer. I wonder of the F40 is set up similarly.

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