quote Originally posted by Will: Which Corvettes?

Rejogged my memory and the C4 had the single lower lateral link with a longer toe link mounted up high and no stock Corvette suspension had 2 equal length lateral links in the rear.
However, the guldstrand design is very similar to what Isolde is referring to:

[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 10-20-2009).]

Maybe the 'vette I looked under had Guldstrand modifications?

Did some R&D at autozone and found a compact tensioner for $35.99 (part # 305232) that is very similar to the one I used on my 4.3 swap (no idea where it came from). It came with a smooth pulley so it will be swap out for a grooved one I have already.


The upper bolt hole of the tensioner attaches to a bolt hole in the head and the lower one will attach to the Alt/AC bracket. The main bracket attaches the AC to the block and needs to be notched for the tensioner and alternator since thier attachments are not in the same plane as the AC. Here is where I am so far:

[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 11-07-2009).]

The main Alt/AC bracket is nearing completion. It is made from 1/4" steel plate and has a smaller secondary 1/4" steel plate overlapping to allow the alternator to be 1/4" further out than the AC compressor. I shimmed the pulley on the alternator about 1/16" to get the grooves lined up. When Sara gets home this afternoon, I need to run into Autozone and pick up a serpentine belt. The 88 4cy with A/C is about 1-2 inches too long (I would have liked it to fit so it would be easy to remember and it would be the same as my 4.3 car). Once i have the belt, I can fully compress the tensioner and position the idler in the poper location.





Once I get everything figured out and fabricated, I am planning to remake the brackets in 1/4" aluminum to try and shave a couple of lbs.

? how come you just dint go with a electric water pump

quote Originally posted by engine man: ? how come you just dint go with a electric water pump

I originally had one and it was a noisy POS.
Unlike most, I drive my SBC car a lot and demand that it has daily driver reliability. I have about 45K miles on the conversion now and every year or two take it on a 3000 mile road trip. Everything will fail eventually and an electric aftermarket water pump will not be readily available in BFE when it does fail. My waterpump setup uses a stock 3400 water pump insert that is in stock at almost every autozone in the country for about $30.

I also love how well it works. My SBC car can idle for 1+ hr at a dead stop, be in stop/go traffic moving 1 car length at a time for 2+ hrs, run a constant 3000 rpm down the interstate for 8 hrs on a 95 degree day (only stopped for gas), pull a 1000 lbs trailer from WI to FL and back to IL, spend 20 minutes running a road coarse between 3000 and 6200 rpm (did this 5 times at the 25th), and spend 2 hrs performing 18 WOT runs and idling on an indoors chassis dyno.... all without any indication of getting above 180 to 190F... After all these good experiences, why would I use anything else.

Ok i was just windering

Picked up a 63" belt today so hopefully the idler will be final mounted this evening and I can start working on the rear support bracket for the AC.

quote Originally posted by fieroguru: I originally had one and it was a noisy POS. Unlike most, I drive my SBC car a lot and demand that it has daily driver reliability. I have about 45K miles on the conversion now and every year or two take it on a 3000 mile road trip. Everything will fail eventually and an electric aftermarket water pump will not be readily available in BFE when it does fail. My waterpump setup uses a stock 3400 water pump insert that is in stock at almost every autozone in the country for about $30. I also love how well it works. My SBC car can idle for 1+ hr at a dead stop, be in stop/go traffic moving 1 car length at a time for 2+ hrs, run a constant 3000 rpm down the interstate for 8 hrs on a 95 degree day (only stopped for gas), pull a 1000 lbs trailer from WI to FL and back to IL, spend 20 minutes running a road coarse between 3000 and 6200 rpm (did this 5 times at the 25th), and spend 2 hrs performing 18 WOT runs and idling on an indoors chassis dyno.... all without any indication of getting above 180 to 190F... After all these good experiences, why would I use anything else.

Which radiator? Source and part number? Thanks in advance.

quote Originally posted by Isolde: Which radiator? Source and part number? Thanks in advance.

26x19x3 aluminum SBC radiator from speedwaymotors. The brand was Tru-Kool and it cost about $159 back in 2005. The part # at the time was 917-347-26, but it no longer crossreferences properly on the speedwaymotors web site. To install it requires the radiator to be at a steeper angle, removing about 1/4" from a spot weld flange and making all new mounts/shrouds. It didn't cost much and works very well.



I run the stock fiero cooling fan which is ECM controlled (7730) to turn on about 185 (180 thermostat) and will shut it off at speeds greater than 35 mph.

Now there's no excuse for anyone to ever overheat again. Another thank you for the info!

quote Originally posted by Isolde: Now there's no excuse for anyone to ever overheat again. Another thank you for the info!

It is not for everyone since it is not a bolt in solution (need to fabricate brackets and such), but it is just about the maximum size that will fit the confines of the fiero. The champion version selling on ebay would be better suited for most (but it didn't exist when I did this one).

Any chance of buying the Archie adapter plate, flywheel and clutch you were using with this engine and the 5-speed? Thanks.

quote Originally posted by Isolde: Any chance of buying the Archie adapter plate, flywheel and clutch you were using with this engine and the 5-speed? Thanks.

When my current Engine/Tranny/Cradle come out, the only part going back in will be the RamJet Intake - all the rest of it will either be sold or go back on the shelf. I haven't even thought about prices for everything and probably will not till I am much, much closer to putting the F40 setup back in.

I cut out the aluminum parts this afternoon. Still need to make the aluminum spacer between the block and the large plate and the recessed tab for the tensioner to bolt to. Then I will take them into work and have them welded so it will be all 1 piece. That's the bad part about aluminum... can't weld it at home.

Looks good though!

Charlie

quote [B]Originally posted by fieroguru: The Saab (right) outer CV’s are larger than the Stock Fiero (Center) ones. There was a thread a while back about a FWD car having the larger CV but accepting the fiero axle spline and wheel bearing… I will have to track the thread down and check… I really like the idea of upgrading to the larger CV style.

Any update on this? I do have the outer CVs from the '97 Bonneville, maybe we could collaborate on measuring?

quote Originally posted by Isolde: Any update on this? I do have the outer CVs from the '97 Bonneville, maybe we could collaborate on measuring?

Can you measure the OD of the raised seal surface? I will measure the fiero and Saab ones when I get home.

I haven't gotten back to the axles yet... here is what I am thinking about. The 89 pontiac 6000 came with both the fiero sized CV and the larger CV. Maybe the seal from the larger one will work... if not I will need to take a seal and the saad measurement with me to Autozone for some research.

Is this something I can measure without pressing it apart? I intend to press them apart, but haven't done so yet. Now that the snow is here, maybe this is the time to get to it. I'm very very green at FWD axles, stubs, hubs, et cetera, but eager to learn. Maybe if you could please photoshop me a big purple arrow onto a pic, so I can see where/what to measure? The Bonneville had nearly 250,000 miles, so I want new bearings for peace of mind. I'm pretty sure I hafta do the pressing to replace the bearings. Still, it would be good to know if the B'villes can be added to the list of sources for upgrade parts, or if we're limited to the 6000s.

Went to autozone and the 89 6000 with the heavy duty brakes has a HUGE seal... not going to work.

Here are all the aluminum parts that will makeup the main accessory bracket:


Here they are assembled with the black lines indicating where they are to be welded:

[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 11-15-2009).]

So where did GM install this magical tripot? And It occurrs to me that if the only piece you're going to reuse is the intake, you must have some tamer engine combination in mind. Admittedly, a 350 is a bit much. Maybe a 327 with Edelbrock ETec 170 heads? These heads are the only worthy replacements for the ones you aren't planning to reuse, but if you're going 327 or 305 or stroker 305, you don't need the F40. But installing the F40, you must want more than that 350 could offer, so the RamJet intake becomes the restriction. You could get it extrude-honed, and then match it up with AFR's best 180cc Vortec heads, but that makes no sense either. On to axles: Do we have any evidence that the Saab pieces are any stronger than the Cobalt SS pieces that keep failing? I'm thinking that while the opposite of all you've posted in this thread, DriveShaftShop's level 2 Cobalt axles, rated to 400 HP, might be just the ticket, especially if you are wanting more than that 350 gives you.

quote Originally posted by Isolde: So where did GM install this magical tripot? And It occurrs to me that if the only piece you're going to reuse is the intake, you must have some tamer engine combination in mind. Admittedly, a 350 is a bit much. Maybe a 327 with Edelbrock ETec 170 heads? These heads are the only worthy replacements for the ones you aren't planning to reuse, but if you're going 327 or 305 or stroker 305, you don't need the F40. But installing the F40, you must want more than that 350 could offer, so the RamJet intake becomes the restriction. You could get it extrude-honed, and then match it up with AFR's best 180cc Vortec heads, but that makes no sense either. On to axles: Do we have any evidence that the Saab pieces are any stronger than the Cobalt SS pieces that keep failing? I'm thinking that while the opposite of all you've posted in this thread, DriveShaftShop's level 2 Cobalt axles, rated to 400 HP, might be just the ticket, especially if you are wanting more than that 350 gives you.

It is not a GM tripod... my lips are sealed until it shows up and I confirm they work. I have already found the transmission seal for the F40 case and this tripods seal diameter, so no machining should be required.

I am not planning a tamer setup, still kicking around the route (small cubes + RPM, or large cubes), but would like to see 400+ whp with the next engine. I live in circle track/sprint car country and would love to get a deal on an aluminum SBC circle track engine and detune it... but that is probably out of the budget for now.

Where did you get the info that the Ramjet intake is restrictive? It just is not a popular intake since you either get it on a crate motor with a locked MEFI controller or you drop $1600 for the intake and goodies and add your own ecm... so there have been very few builds with them to see where they become a restriction. The flow charts I remember seeing on it were the same if not slightly better than the HSR.

I have no way of knowing where the Saab axles/tripod strength is in the relm of other axles. Fiero axles have proven to be quite tough and most people only have issues with slicks or excessive wheel hop. If the tripod works above, I plan on running stock mid 90's GM axles and the larger outer CV.

I can state, from my own time on a SuperFlow1020, that an extrude-honed RamJet cannot keep up with AFR's best 195 heads. The heads stayed on the bench, I taped the other 7 ports, bolted the intake to the head, clayed a radius in place of the TB, and flow dropped from 297 to 269. In theory, that should support 540 HP, but you're looking at a solid roller cam that won't idle below 1000 rpm. Also, the amJet's plenum volume is awfully small. The SuperRam is about right for where you seem to be headed. Congrats on the progress!

quote Originally posted by Isolde: DriveShaftShop's level 2 Cobalt axles, rated to 400 HP, might be just the ticket

You really need to get past the Cobalt axles... for the SBC/LSX/F40 combination they will not work unless you want to hack up the passenger frame rail and here is why...

With the F40 tranny this close to the driver side framerail:


You get this much clearance to the balancer with a 1/8" adapter plate - not much :


There is only about 1/2" of combined clearance between the frame rails. So if you slit the difference you will have 1/4" on both sides and need to place the engine +/- 1/8". When I took these picks, I also scribed the location of the adapter plate on the crossmembers so it could be recreated.

Here is a mock up demonstration using the 9-5 axle in the fully compressed state.



Even with the 9-5 axle fully compressed, there is still a 2 1/8" gap to install the lateral links. The 9-5 axle fully compressed measures 24 7/16". Since its tripod is fully contained, the fully extended length is 26 1/8. So there is 1 11/16" total movement within the joint. To center the joint half of this should be subtracted from the compressed length in addition to the 2 1/8' to line up the bolt holes. This gets you to an axle with a fully compressed length of 21 15/32 or 21 1/2" to be centered within the tripod.

The Cobalt SS axle is 23" fully compressed and 1 1/2" too long:


While the overall width of the Cobalt axles is correct, they were designed for the F35 tranny that does not have the differential offset 1" to the driver side like the F40 does. The guy running the ecotec with the F35 and cobalt axles isn't having any issues since he retained the F35 and probably had more wiggle room in tranny placement.

Other engine swaps that are not as critical on overall engine/tranny length could possibly get buy with the cobalt axles, but the SBC/LSx guys/gals really need to move on.

[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 11-16-2009).]

So I need to ask DSS if it's the same price at 1.5" shorter. Thank you for providing the 1.5" number.

quote Originally posted by Isolde: So I need to ask DSS if it's the same price at 1.5" shorter. Thank you for providing the 1.5" number.

I wouldn't go touting the 1 1/2" number either... this was just the very 1st of several verification steps to determine the proper axle length for the tranny in this location and elevation. Its sole purpose was to confirm my long held suspicion that the Cobalt axle would be too long for my application. I will not start the final verification until the overall engine/tranny placement is locked down and mounts made. Granted there is very little room for where it could be located, but the engine/tranny position must be locked down before there can be any confidence in the measurements.

In case you haven't noticed, I am very methodical in my approach. To find the axle that fits, I must first know at what precise minimum and maximum axle lengths will the tripods/CV's bind when the suspension is at full droop and full compression. This will give me the range of axle lengths that will not bind and then I will try to find an OEM application as close to the mid-range of these axle lengths.

To perform this test the cradle/engine/tranny/suspension (w/o springs) must be installed in a chassis and use my "adjustable axle" to perform length tests hand spinning the wheel as the suspension is cycled from max droop to max compression

I get that, but if 1.5" shorter doesn't raise the price, then neither will 1.25" or 1.75". I didn't say I was ready to place my order, I just spent all my axle money on an LQ4 for my Camaro.

Got the aluminum bracket back from being welded:



Then put the accessory drive back together:


Then I started messing around with where the rubber mounts will go. The brackets on the side will not be used, just something to hold the bushing off the front crossmember. The one for the adapter plate will probably be in this general area but centered on the adapter plate.


The engine side will be in this general area and have a bracket that will pickup the back side of 3 AC compressor mount tabs which will tie it into the accessory bracket as well.

quote Originally posted by fieroguru: I think I have found the holy grail of tripods - a tripod with the proper 27 spline shaft for the F40 and its accepts a 32 spline shaft into it (just like the fiero tripods). So if all works out, I could take this tripod and just slide in the GM axle of the proper length and reuse the fiero outbaord CV's. The only downside to this tripod, it I might need to turn down the oil seal surface for the one that goes in the tranny... but that is much easier/cheaper than resplining axle shafts. I have already located/purchased ($85) a used OEM axle with this tripod, so hopefully by the end of next week I will have something more to share.

Nope, not going to work. Right tranny spline, but shaft is .010" too large past the spline to go into the tranny and the seal boss starts too soon. Sure I could modify it to work, but it has the same tripod setup as the Saab unit with the Saab splines (fits on the Saab shaft) which I would prefer to get use the style similar to the fiero. So it will go on the shelf... back to looking again.

quote Originally posted by fieroguru: Went to autozone and the 89 6000 with the heavy duty brakes has a HUGE seal... not going to work.

The HD brakes used a 5x115mm hub instead of the Fiero's 5x100mm. On an '84-'87 car you can swap the knuckles out, but not on an '88.

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 11-20-2009).]

'guru, the pics are in Anything Goes , in a new thread just for you. You'll see when you get over there.

Special thanks go out to cooguyfish for the 88 parts chassis I picked up today (6hr round trip)!


With this chassis I will be able to perform multiple engine mockup and finalize the engine/tranny placement as well as axle selection w/o needing to take one of my other 88's out of service. Spent about an hour removing every bolted on piece that was left and blowing all the large debris from the nooks and crannys. Depending on the weather on Sunday, I will wash/degrease it.


To be able to move the chassis around, I tacked a home made axle to the underside of a spare 88 cradle.