Starter is done and bolted onto the tranny... pics of it will have to wait till later tonight.

Also completed all the modifications to the flywheel... Removed 153 tooth ring gear, turned down OD to fit within F40 transmission, turned down to accept the fiero ring gear, drill/tap pressure plate holes and weld on the ring gear tabs to the ring gear on the back side. With the pressure plate bolts, it tips the scales at 11.5 lbs and cost $220 shipped for the flywheel and $30 for the fiero ring gear and time for the modifications.

On the right is the flywheel as purchased (153 tooth 86+ SBC McLeod Aluminum Flywheel)


After all the mods and ready for the F40:

dead sexy

The adapter plate is pretty much finished and ready for paint... and it is sexy too! It also tips the scales right at 10lbs with the integrated bushings:


With tranny and starter:

Mr. Guru,

I was curious asto why you rotated the the transmission? I missed it somewhere in the 9 pages. You have a lot of work into this, looks nice.

He likes his engines and suspensions low. This puts the axles at quite the angle. Rotating the trans raises the diff, ( and puts the jackshaft closer to the engine block ) resulting in less angle of the axles. ( I worry that it may create lubrication issues in the trans, even if he does run extra lube. )

quote Originally posted by Cajun Road Warrior: Mr. Guru, I was curious asto why you rotated the the transmission? I missed it somewhere in the 9 pages. You have a lot of work into this, looks nice.

As stated above... my original SBC install was lower than most. By mounting it as low as possible, you get away from any valve cover interferance with the decklid spring box (mine was un-cut) and maximize the amount of space for the intake/air filter clearance (even when this setup was carb, it easily fit under a stock un modified decklid). The engine was also about 1" further forward than typical so the RamJet throttle body would clear the strut tower. The engine placement and with the lowered suspension had the axles angled... but I put 40K miles on them.

As I went to the tubular cradle, it was designed to allow the engine/tranny to be another 1/2" lower, but I didn't want to press my luck with the axle angles especially since the driver side axle is now shorter due to the F40 differential shift. So as the adapter plate was designed, the differential was rotated up about 1" to lessen the axle angles some.

All the parts in this thread have been repurposed to my 4.3/F40 swap and my RamJet intake manifold just sold on ebay (pending payment)... I have moved on to the LS(x) platform and probably will not do another SBC swap unless it is for someone else's fiero. The SBC platform will always be near and dear to me... but it is time to move on...

Well, it's about time! Unless you're going LS4, in which case I'll be disappointed. I would think that you would prefer the challenge of using any other LSx, from my understanding of what you've typed so far.

quote Originally posted by fieroguru: my RamJet intake manifold just sold on ebay (pending payment)...

Was that your RamJet I saw a couple of days ago??? I wish you had put that up before I bought the GMPP vortec tbi intake. That would have been the finishing touch for the Indy haulers engine.

Joe

quote Originally posted by Isolde: Well, it's about time! Unless you're going LS4, in which case I'll be disappointed. I would think that you would prefer the challenge of using any other LSx, from my understanding of what you've typed so far.

Prepare to be disappointed:



Really the only difference between the LS4 and any other LS(x) engine is the need for an adapter plate (which I already have that figured out). The LS4 is the cheapest aluminum LS(x) engine you can buy and I picked my 2007 LS4 engine/tranny/harness with 18K miles for $1000 and drove to pick it up. If I want more cubes at a later date, I can just get a short block and swap all my hardware to it and run a 1/8" adapter plate...

I wanted to do the LS4 so I could retain the DoD feature and use the F40 6 speed... because I doubt anyone else would go through the effort and I want to see what it takes to do it. I already have a DoD compatible cam that is roughly 224/232 - 113 and .575" lift with springs and pushrods, LS2 intake modifed to fit the DoD valley cover with fuel rails, injectors and 90mm throttle body, LS7 manifolds (flow great and will keep engine bay temps down due to factory heat shields), aluminum flywheel, smoothed the valve cover (no coil or engine covers for me), bracket to relocate the coils and a few more tricks up my sleeve... I might even play with a VVT conversion as well since it will pretty much a bolt on to the gen IV engines with the 58x reluctor... just need the proper ecm and all the factory hardware bits.

I read that the LS4 has a shorter crank than other LS platforms. You will have to modify any LS stroker cranks.
I have a 4T65E for an auto conversion. It should bolt up to a LS4. The platform looks more apatizing and looks to be a better fit for the fiero. I'll still finish the racecar project the way I'm going, but I do want to find an 88 GT and drop an LS4 in it.

Loving this! LS4/F40 seems like a fantastic combo for a Fiero. If you keep the D-O-D, so much the better.

This may sound ingnorant.. DOD?

quote Originally posted by fieroguru: I might even play with a VVT conversion as well since it will pretty much a bolt on to the gen IV engines with the 58x reluctor... just need the proper ecm and all the factory hardware bits.

If you're using the 58x/4x engine, then you need to use the e67 ECM, which is already the proper ECM to use with VVT. The problem is that I don't think any of the engines have both VVT AND AFM/DoD together, so if you want to do both, programming might get tricky. If you just want to use VVT on the LS4, without DoD, it should just be a matter of hardware, and getting the right programming. I think all the VVT LSx motors use the 58x setup anyway (I could be wrong there), so it should just be a matter of getting the cam/hardware/wiring installed and hooked up, and using the programming for the L92.

quote Originally posted by Cajun Road Warrior: This may sound ingnorant.. DOD?

Displacement-On-Demand, also called Active Fuel Management on later models.
It has special lifters in 4 cylinders so it can shut off those cylinders under cruise and run on just 4 cylinders for better mileage.

quote Originally posted by Cajun Road Warrior: I read that the LS4 has a shorter crank than other LS platforms. You will have to modify any LS stroker cranks. I have a 4T65E for an auto conversion. It should bolt up to a LS4. The platform looks more apatizing and looks to be a better fit for the fiero. I'll still finish the racecar project the way I'm going, but I do want to find an 88 GT and drop an LS4 in it.

The regular LSx cranks will bolt right in. Internally, they are all the same. You'd really only need to modify the crank's external length, 3mm on the tail, and 10mm on the snout, to keep the same drive accessories. But shortening the crank is easy anyway, since it's really just face milling the snout and tail.

The 4T65E will mount up to the LS4 just fine, yes, but if it's not one that came off an LS4, it will have to be modified in the same way as the F40 or any other trans, to mount the starter. You'd probably also want the HD version instead of the lighter one, anyway, as the LS4 came with the HD.

Thanks, Just trying to keep up with the abbreviations. I'm abbreviation challenged. lol

quote Originally posted by dobey: The regular LSx cranks will bolt right in. Internally, they are all the same. You'd really only need to modify the crank's external length, 3mm on the tail, and 10mm on the snout, to keep the same drive accessories. But shortening the crank is easy anyway, since it's really just face milling the snout and tail. The 4T65E will mount up to the LS4 just fine, yes, but if it's not one that came off an LS4, it will have to be modified in the same way as the F40 or any other trans, to mount the starter. You'd probably also want the HD version instead of the lighter one, anyway, as the LS4 came with the HD.

[This message has been edited by Cajun Road Warrior (edited 09-25-2010).]

quote Originally posted by dobey: The regular LSx cranks will bolt right in. Internally, they are all the same. You'd really only need to modify the crank's external length, 3mm on the tail, and 10mm on the snout, to keep the same drive accessories. But shortening the crank is easy anyway, since it's really just face milling the snout and tail.

The 3mm extra length on the crank flange retains the same clutch/pressure plate stack height with the 1/8" adapter plate being used. The 10mm on the front will just get cut off.

That's about all I want to discuss of the LS(x) swap in this thread. As I get closer I will do a dedicate swap thread, but that probably will not happen for quite some time.

Sell the lame LS2 intake, it's no better than the LS1 version, despite the larger TB. The LS6 intake is at least 10 horses better than either, despite having a smaller TB than the LS2. And considering your excessively large cam, it'll be more like a 15 horse difference.
Besides, by the time you correct for the rocker ratio, it's more like a 228/236 cam. You're giving up low end that the runner lengths won't allow you to gain back up top. The LS6 likes an uncorrected IC of no later than 44 degrees, and then gives peak TQ at 4800 rpm, and peak HP at 6300. If your IC is any later, you're just losing average power, low end torque, and area under the curve, with nothing gained for it. This info comes from Tony Mamo, ( from AFR ) on ls1tech.com.

Not to be a downer, but I've been pondering it all weekend, and I'd bet cash that it won't run in sixth gear, on 4 cylinders, with that extra large cam you listed. It'll surge no matter the tune.

Considering you're doing an LS4 / F40-MT2, and the depth of the F40 bell, plus considering the things you did to the SBC flywheel, I could not help but think of this thread while looking over page 31 of the October 2008 issue of Car Craft. Bottom center, the pic of the adapter flywheel.
Probably is 168 tooth, but is LSx-drilled, is offset 0.400" out, and is available in your choice of steel or aluminum. I just checked www.mcleodracing.com, BTW. The current PNs are 460535 for the 35 pound steel, and 560535 for the aluminum.

quote Originally posted by Isolde: Considering you're doing an LS4 / F40-MT2, and the depth of the F40 bell, plus considering the things you did to the SBC flywheel, I could not help but think of this thread while looking over page 31 of the October 2008 issue of Car Craft. Bottom center, the pic of the adapter flywheel. Probably is 168 tooth, but is LSx-drilled, is offset 0.400" out, and is available in your choice of steel or aluminum. I just checked www.mcleodracing.com, BTW. The current PNs are 460535 for the 35 pound steel, and 560535 for the aluminum.

It all boils down to precisely how thick those flywheels are.
A stock LS1 flywheel is about .810" thick and so the clutch surface would be about .810" from the bellhousing on an LS4 (which is very close to a stock fiero clutch depth BTW)
A stock G6 flywheel has the clutch surface about 1.62" from the bellhousing surface.
Adding .400" to .810" would still leave you about .410" short.

With the crank flange on the LS4 being essentuially flush with the bellhousing, the ideal flywheel thickness would need to be about 1.62" thick (crank flange to clutch surface).

I found an aluminum flywheel that is 1.42" thick, but it needs to have the LS4 crank pattern drilled into it and all the other mods to make it fit within the bellhousing.

I don't think it an agreeable solution to most people, but in theory, combining the McLeod flywheel with the GMPP steel 0.400" flywheel spacer should get you close enough that the remaining 0.010" could be added by a shim behind the HTOB. The steel version of that flywheel is reported to have some relieving done to the engine side, for keeping the weight to 35 pounds. Depending on how they did that, it might be difficult for your SBC flywheel mod to work without moving the starting ring gear too far from the block, and it seems to me that it surely would be if adding the steel spacer. But if you're going to notch the F40 for a starter, ...
Anyway, even if you decide against it, I felt it wouldn't be a problem that I asked if you were aware of this possible possibility.
Peace.

quote Originally posted by fieroguru: 180 Degree Equal-length Headers I had started to built 180 degree headers for my current setup and put them on hold until the F40 swap was completed… Want to make sure the collectors are properly positioned to clear the shifter assy on the F40 which is much larger than the Getrag. Also, need to make sure the headers clear the Vortec crab dist. The headers will be a stepped tube design with 1 5/8” primary diameter for the first 12” and then 1 ¾” for the last 30” to the collectors. This will enhance low end torque and not be a restriction to high rpm power. All tubing will be 16ga for increased durability. The collectors will rest above the tranny diff, dump to the rear of the car, go under the shelf of the trunk. From the collectors, dual 3” exhaust will be routed between the trunk and the engine and most likely will have 2 mufflers in series per side to help keep the exhaust note low enough for daily driving. This portion can begin until the adapter plate, engine mounts and cradle are complete, but here are the parts for the headers:

guru i also am having space constriction problems with the f40 and 180 headers i am building. if the dist is too cumbersome on a sbc and in the way a crank trigger setup with a dist plug in the original hole location is a possible solution. my setup i am building up is on a spare cradle with a f40 trans and ls3 engine. still working the bugs out. i want my 180 headers to clear my mera decklid.

GURU, only thing that comes to mind is awesome..you are very, very good at what you do...remarkable....carl 123

Thanks for the compliments guys!

I have sold off all my SBC/Ramjet stuff and the vast majority of parts made in this thread are being repurposed for my 4.3/F40 build.