I've got a story to go along with this, if you don't feel like reading, feel free to skip past it and take a look at my issues and help me out as I will have them separate.

It's been a while since i've been on the forums. Not much has been happening recently so I don't have much to post until recently. Been stuck on unemployment trying to save every penny i've got. Just when I have a little bit of pocket money to take the girlfriend out to dinner, all hell breaks loose. Thankfully I have a great buddy who also owns a fiero and I agree to do some work for him in exchange for some of his parts lying around. So i've got an issue where my battery likes to slide over into the water pump pulley and leak acid all over the place. After having to replace the battery one too many times, I hire a professional who builds baja race trucks to build me something to secure the battery down While it was very decently priced. I don't have much to work with so I get it done hoping to save money in the future with the batteries. So the next day, I take off to buy the new battery from interstate, and then off to Tony's to pick up some rims (very nice and I am so thankful for them, and which I still owe him a bit of work for) Anyways, as i'm leaving interstate on my way to Tony's with my brand new battery installed, my car comes to a stop on the steepest hill in town during rush hour traffic UGH... What now? I just replaced the battery. I look behind me and see a small puff of smoke, so I push the button to pop the deck lid... Nothing... I look again and no lights are on anywhere. I step outside and look through the decklid vent ('84) to se some flames. OH **** ! I yell and panic and grab my extinguisher from my car and put it out. I then proceed to rip the vent from its hinges and toss in to the side as I scramble to find out what is wrong. Turns out the tech at interstate had left my posotive battery cable draping across the exhaust manifold and it is still sparking below.


So, finally Tony shows up and we replace the cable and it starts up wonderfully and we go about the day without any issues. But, a week later, i go and pick the girlfriend up because I saved up some money after the previous incident. We have a great night and i'm on my way home and I hear a small pop and the car slowly coasts to a halt on the side of the road. I calmly look over at her and say no worries, it's just a fuse. but then I look over at her and notice that everything is filled with a light smoke. Huh, that's weird. I check the fuses multiple times. After doing a near complete inspection of the car, I can't find the issue and call for a tow truck to get us home. During the hour and a half wait for the tow-truck, I find out that the fuel pump is not turning on as I can usually hear it running. Ohwell, he's already here, it's 1AM, she's got work in the morning, I'll figure it out in the morning.

Well, after poking and prodding, and help from countless people. I have replaced a perfectly fine fuel pump, strainer, filter, and relay. and the car still does not start.
Finally I have a professional take a look tonight and determine that the ECM is not sending any signal at all to his scanner. We remove the plug from the ECM and see it is a bit smokey. YAY! we made some progress! The EEPROM looks fine through the little window but we determine that the ECM needs to be replaced either way so I decide to rip it apart. Here is what I find.













So, to sum it up for the people who wanted to skip the story.

car catches fire due to positive cable on manifold
Replace cable, car runs fine with no issues.
Week later, pop and smoke inside cabin and car coasts to a halt.
Fuel pump does not turn on
Replace fuel pump, filter and relay
Fuel pump still does not turn on
ECM does not produce signal and check engine light does not come on when ignition is on.
ECM circuit board is toast.

Possible causes?
Affordable solutions?

the fuel pump and ecm not having any power/signal sounds exactly like whats happening to my fiero rightnow. downside is, ive replaced the ecm 3 times twice with brand new ones and stilll nothing.

my only guess is to trace and check all of your ground wires and if they look atall crappy replace them since its cheap to get a small roll of 12-16 gauge wire at the hardware store.

keep me posted thru PM or on here as if you find a solution i may be able to build off of yours and get the beast running again lol.

------------------
Chris the Madman Robles

been awhile for me to work on a fiero 2.8

ecm will have to be replaced,
but you will need to find out what happen to make it go out,

there use to be a link to fiero pin in and out for the ecm on the net-no longer a good link ;(
first place thing to look at the wire to the fuel pump -ohm it-maybe around the heat shield area-
it had shorted(if memory serves me right the shield use to cut into the wires.

quote Originally posted by ApeMan: been awhile for me to work on a fiero 2.8

2.5 4cyl

It is a decently new engine. approx 15-20k since the swap. I have been told it is an upgraded marine block. But I don't suspect any of that matters. It is still the stock electrical.


Where would be my best place to look for a decently priced ECM? Possibly new wiring harness and connectors would eliminate many issues/concerns too?

[This message has been edited by Shill (edited 04-07-2010).]

What year is the car, and which trans does it have? I have a computer from an '84 2.5L manual trans Fiero, if it would help you.

[This message has been edited by Isolde (edited 04-07-2010).]

Any chance of damaged wiring from the fire? Short, or power leads from your ECM that aren't supposed to be and I'm sure you can "blow" it.

I have a duke auto ECM for sale. PM me if you are interested.

Good morning Shill. Been busy lately, and my home computer took a fatal dump last week. Another story.

That board does not look too well there. There has to be someone out there that has one just lying around? At least it is easier to replace than the fuel pump.

Anyway, as to advice about the issue causing the problem, I would look @ your C500 connectors. They were just hanging there, and we tied them up that evening when you were stuck on 19th. (He really was stuck on one of the steepest, most congested roads in Spokane during rush hour. ) I am willing to bet that you will need to "tighten up" the bundle of wires on the firewall. I just can't stop thinking of how close that connecter was to the exaust. It would also be a pretty good idea to take a flashlight and do some inspecting of the rest of the system. If one part of the system fails, there is usually others waiting to fall into place, and follow Murphy's Law.

If anyone has a good ECM for the 84 2.5 (manual ?), Shill could really use it. I know that there are countless ECMs sitting in boxes on shelves, and I know he would be most appreciative if someone could spare a spare.

------------------

Well, Tony Kania can't read. Or worse, can't be bothered. He just asked for someone to offer something I just offered a few posts back. What an arse.

While I'm not familiar with the GM ECM, I would assume that the red charred compenent is a power supply varistor that blew with some kind of voltage spike.

I would look into the electrical system of the car.

I'd bet on a bad voltage regulator (possibly screwed up from the positive battery cable being shorted to ground), causing an overvoltage situation. Slapping another ECM in without rectifying the cause is likely to result in another failure.

[This message has been edited by pmbrunelle (edited 04-07-2010).]

I find it awfully odd that it happened after the battery install.

I would contact them and tell them what happened. Hell you could of lost your car because of that.

12 volts going into the grounding system could of weaken some items in the ECM, just took a bit longer to completely ruin them.

quote Originally posted by Isolde: What year is the car, and which trans does it have? I have a computer from an '84 2.5L manual trans Fiero, if it would help you.

It is an '84. and I have been told it has the more "sought after" transmission. I think they called it the econo tans with the better gear ratios. It is a 4 spd manual.

quote Originally posted by Shill: It is an '84. and I have been told it has the more "sought after" transmission. I think they called it the econo tans with the better gear ratios. It is a 4 spd manual.

Mine was the sport ratios, but I think it doesn't matter, because the VSS was from the speedometer, and the plastic gears in the trans compensated for the FDR. If you want it, I'll send it for the cost of the cheapest shipping I can find.

quote Originally posted by Isolde: Mine was the sport ratios, but I think it doesn't matter, because the VSS was from the speedometer, and the plastic gears in the trans compensated for the FDR. If you want it, I'll send it for the cost of the cheapest shipping I can find.

I sent a PM earlier. Not exactly sure how business is done online like this. Let me know what I need to do.

Actually with the different transmission came a different cal-pac. You could use the setup as is, or swap the calpack from the blown ECM to the new ECM

http://www.exatorq.com/ludis_obd1/fieroprom.html

Ummmm, there is no CALPAK on a 4-cylinder.

Oh, and I just noticed that your car is an 84, so those don't have air intake temperature sensors to worry about.

quote Originally posted by Shill: I sent a PM earlier. Not exactly sure how business is done online like this. Let me know what I need to do.

I got it and sent one back. We'll continue this by PM, not in this thread.

Shill, give me the numbers off of your ECM, I have a few laying around, and you are welcome to one of them if they are the correct ones. If you need any parts to help get you back on the road, let me know, and I will send them to you for free, you just pay shipping. I've been in tough financial times myself (kinda still am), so whatever I can do to help you, I will do.

I believe the number we all need is 1226156. That si what's in the box in the top right of the sticker.

I guess I'm the arse. I can't find the '84 computer. The one I did find is from an '86 S-10 5-speed. Would that help?
I just pulled the harness from the car, so that part is covered, making me something better than a total arse.

Maybe this is a sign to start over fresh. A buddy offered to sell me a 3800 (non super charged) for $50. Complete with transmission, wiring, etc... all it needs is a head gasket apparently, but i'd want to do a full rebuild, maybe preformance parts and sell my old 2.5 for some of the costs. Is it possible to switch a 3800 to a standard transmission? There is also a 3800 series 2 at his work with no wiring, or trans for a bit more, and is in running order. Any estimates on what cost would be for an install AFTER purchasing the engine?

I'd suggest you do both. Give your buddy the $50, and get the one from work that doesn't need head gaskets. Install that one, and drive that while going through the other one that does need head gaskets.
You get double the HP, with no real hit to fuel mileage.
Hooking it up to a manual is as simple as getting a '96-'02 Camaro V6 flywheel and computer, then having the flywheel machined to 0.840" thick.

A mechanic friend found an '85 ECM for the same engine. The numbers do not match but he says it'll be enough to test to see if it'll start or if we have other issues to deal with until the proper ECM arrives. So, tomorrow I will be hooking up the ECM and going from there.

quote Originally posted by Shill: I believe the number we all need is 1226156. That si what's in the box in the top right of the sticker.

Shill,

I went out and verified, and I have two 1226156 ECMs. If you would like one, I will send one to you, just pay shipping. PM me for PayPal address if you are interested.

'85 ECM was installed today. Fuel pump did not turn on with the ignition. Poured a bit of gas into the throttle body and kept cranking. After approx 30 sec cranking and the oil pressure was able to build, the fuel pump kicked in and the engine ran for approx 20-30 sec but was rough. Very rough. was sort of jump when I pushed the gas. I also noticed that my gas needle was pegged past the full line at the top of the gauge when I know I put the tank back up with about 2-3 gallons in it. The needle did not move when turning the key.

I will wait and replace both the wiring harness and the ECM before I mess with it any further.

[This message has been edited by Shill (edited 04-09-2010).]

Just received the harness today. MUCH better shape than mine. Didn't realize the condition mine was in until seeing this new one.

This is the C500 connector, correct? What is contained in these wires?

quote Originally posted by Shill: Just received the harness today. MUCH better shape than mine. Didn't realize the condition mine was in until seeing this new one. This is the C500 connector, correct? What is contained in these wires?

I'm glad it arrived safely, on time, and you're happy with it.

Just received my ECM. Hulki is some sort of packaging mastermind. I swear, if they had PHDs for packaging, he has one. After spending 10 minutes carefully unwrapping this masterpiece I was unable to fit all of the packaging supplies back into the shipping box. Are you sure I don't owe you a bit extra for the roll(s)? of seran wrap that you used on this?

Wiring harness has an extra relay on it that i'm unaware of what it does. Also some of the connectors do not match as my engine is an aftermarket swap. so things like the temp sensor are different. But isn't too much of an issue. Also a big thanks to FieroKing, he came over and helped me install the wiring yesterday and also gave me a ride to my girlfriends birthday which is about 45 min drive. Also near his house but still a big thanks to him aswell. Also had some car dealer approach my mother and offer to buy my car. Not sure how this happened but when my mom told me of the news I just laughed. Right now this car only has a cash value of a couple hundred. I have invested thousands, and to me it is my life, PRICELESS.

The wiring harness I recieved contains 2 relays. Not exactly sure that the other one is for. It has a Dark blue, Light blue, green ( not sure of Light/dark?) and black. Can anyone tell me what this is for and what the wires lead to?

EDIT: Also might not hurt to replace the rest of the wiring in the car. If anyone has the rest of the wiring in good condition. I have some money left over. and all the money that has not been going to gas lately, so I am looking to purchase.

[This message has been edited by Shill (edited 05-01-2010).]

I have no clue. I pulled the harness for you more than 2 years after pulling the engine itself. I figured that since the duke isn't worth having, neither is the harness for it. That's why I gave you the whole thing.

[This message has been edited by Isolde (edited 05-01-2010).]

When I finally bolted everything up and went to plug in the ECM, I noticed the wires to the relay that I had mentioned. THe are both in the connector to the front wiring. I assume they go to A/C as that is the only feature my car lacks. but then again, this wiring harness did not have any connectors for an A/C. WHo knows...


Anyways, the car starts finally, and will run as long as I don't push the gas pedal down. As soon as I do, I watch the gas pour into the throttle body and the car falls flat on it's face. Also noticed the tach is bouncing around quite a bit as it idles steadily. I suspect I need to switch out the PROM, as I have heard there are 2 different PROMs for this year. I don't see how to get the little buggers out of there. ANyone?

The fuel pressure regulator is built into the TBI. I've never heard of anyone
adjusting the TBI pressure. Your fuel pressure is supposed to be 9-13psi
where the V6 is 40-45psi. The problem is how to check the fuel pressure
on the Duke since it has no shrader valve like the V6. I had to remove the
fuel filter and use a T fitting with rubber hose/clamps over the exposed
metal lines. Not fun but it can be done. Harbor freight sells a fuel pressure
tester for $15.

[This message has been edited by Hudini (edited 05-05-2010).]

Edit: ^^^^^^^^^ Very nice! Plus for you.


Just interjecting a little....

Shill's car starts fine. Idle is at 2000. When at idle, the throttle body seems to pissing too much fuel. When you give her gas, the fuel just sprays like crazy into the throat, and onto the butterfly, causing the engine to just bog down. It will push past it, but it definately is getting too much fuel. Under acceleration, and at idle.

[This message has been edited by Tony Kania (edited 05-05-2010).]

Aaron has the whole throttle body off of his '88 4 cyl. Will these match up to test if it is an issue with anything inside the throttle body?

Are you sure you installed the right fuel pump? I dont remember anymore, but Im sure someone will chime in as to whether they have diffrent output pressures.

As far as everything else, sounds to me like everything after the wire melting was from the ECM failing, so you really just had one problem. The rest I would look at everything you touched between the car stopping and the ECM being replaced.

As far as the fuel guage, the sensor is mounted on the fuel pickup inside the tank, something probably got jostled when you replaced the pump.

quote Originally posted by Shill: Aaron has the whole throttle body off of his '88 4 cyl. Will these match up to test if it is an issue with anything inside the throttle body?

Unfortunately, no it will not. The '84-'86 used a 300 series TBI where the '87-'88 used a 700 series
TBI. The good news is those 300 series TBI's are found on many '80's-'90's GM cars and trucks.
I can find 10 or 20 in my local pull-a-part junkyard. You have a junkyard like that near you?