I just replaced the Spec stage 3 with the Spec stage 5. I started it up and right away there was alot of noise from the transmission and the engine stopped right away when I turned the key off. Also the clutch pedal was very weak and then it would just hit a wall. With the clutch peddle pushed in the noise was quieter. I pulled transmission back out and found that the pressure plate was hitting the inside of the trans. The forks on the pressure plate were really close to the clutch disk so when I pushed the pedal down the T/O bearing collar would hit the clutch disk without depressing the pressure plate. My new T/O bearing is trashed from metal shavings from the trans.
I'm going to call SPEC in the morning and find out why this happened. It's pretty frustrating doing all this work and then having to take it all back apart from a defective part. I'm just glade I didn't have to pay a shop to do this.
I wish I would have taken a closer look and compared my old setup with the new setup. Here is some camera phone pictures.
The Stage 5 disk and PP that came in the kit. There is 13/32" from the disk to the surface of the fork where the T/O presses.
The Stage 5 disk and the PP that was in my stage 3 kit. There is 5/8" from the disk to the surface of the fork where the T/O presses. (Both pictures everything was clamped down like it would be in the car).
Going back several years, Spec had a rash of clutches where the inner spline hub was installed backwards with the protrusion to the pressure plate side vs. the flywheel side...This allowed the throwout bearing sleeve to make direct contact with the clutch spline hub... looks like the exact same thing here.
I would suspect that if you trimmed 1/16" to 1/8" from the thowout bearing sleeve or the splined hub that clutch would work fine. The sleeve is part of the input bearing and probably some type of hardened material... and taking the material from the spline hub might cause premature wear of the splines (less surface area).
Or you could remove the rivots and flip the hub yourself.
I actually suspect that Spec developed their GM FWD clutch line on the 92+ HTOB trannys (no throwout bearing sleeve) and overlooked the hub/throwout bearing sleeve clearance when adapting this clutch line to the previous generations.
I didn't notice the pressure plate hitting when I first looked at it... there is very little extra space within the fiero getrag and the higher clamp load pressure plates are thicker. Spec should not have sold that combo for a fiero getrag unless they specified running a thinner flywheel.
To run it, you would need to make the flywheel thinner or run a shim between the engine/tranny (either of these will also fix the throwout bearing sleeve/clutch hub interferance).
IP: Logged
09:54 PM
Apr 26th, 2010
Fierobsessed Member
Posts: 4782 From: Las Vegas, NV Registered: Dec 2001
All pressure plates come very close to touching the inside of the Getrag's case. If the pressure plate is thicker then stock, then there is no chance that it will fit at all. The clearance is typically just a few hundredths. Iv'e had stock ones that scraped a little, and needed to grind them down at the innermost part of the pressure plate casing a little. It was just that lip that would ever so slightly scrape.
They sent you a 4 speed PP instead of the 5 speed PP. The rivets on the PP indicate that is a 4 speed PP and the rivets are rubbing on the highest part of the trans which is a circle area. Had this issue on a buddys car we installed a stock clutch set back into and at the time didn't know there was a difference in the 2 PP. We just got it all pulled back apart last week and swapped PPs out.
IP: Logged
05:25 PM
Alex4mula Member
Posts: 7403 From: Canton, MI US Registered: Dec 1999
That's definitely wrong all. Make sure the new disk they send has the proper clearance at the hub. Something I do now on every clutch install is to do an engagement test BEFORE I put the cradle back. Very easy to do. Once you have the axles in use a pry bar to release the clutch (make sure it releases ok) and then rotate the axles both ways and make sure there are no weird noises. Also rotate the engine too if you can so you can test PP scraping anything. Being there done that. Its annoying to have to redo that because of this. But as you said is good you didn't pay anyone to do it. BTW, what engine you have behind that Spec 5?
yeah...but with more horsepower the more often things break especially when you are dealing with stock parts. Good thing I live in Flint, MI where things are abundantly cheap and easy to find!
Its not a v8, so it will never happen.... we can dream though!
I mean, we all remember that someone with a completely built turbo 383 LT1, running more boost, on nearly twice the displacement couldnt even make 500whp.... no way we could make that.
quote
Turbo L26 shooting for 550whp
Darthfiero, I'm taking bets, good odds!
[This message has been edited by darkhorizon (edited 04-28-2010).]
I received the new kit on Friday and put it in right away. I have about 150 miles on it so far. It's not as harsh as I expected and just as easy to drive as the stage 3. It does screech every time it engages as expected but it doesn't bother me. The pressure plate they sent is close to the same thickness but the rivets sit lower. It doesn't hit the inside of the trans so i guess it works. The disk has a corrected collar (flipped compared to the last one), and the fingers on the pressure plate are set higher. The clutch pedal feels a lot easier than before, don't know if that is a good thing or not.
I have about 1,150 miles on it so far and it is finally holding the power. The chirp/screech sound has almost gone away but still occasionally does it. It still has the same feel as the stage 3 to get moving from a stop.
Well, my transmission gave way while getting on the expressway while in 2nd gear giving it moderate power. There was a loud clunk followed by more noise whenever the trans is under load. I was able to get it to the next exit and still pull it up on the trailer under its own power. I pulled the trans out last night. It appears that the pressure plate was still hitting the inside of the trans. Everything was tight and I never heard any noise like I did with the other pressure plate. Its hard to say if the pressure plate rubbing caused the trans to fail or not. The clutch was still holding great and still very streetable up until this happened. I have a spare trans ready to go in but also noticed that the clutch disk has some small cracks in it. I have about 2500 miles on the clutch kit now, I was surprised at how much life was left on everything, hardly anything was worn. I'm in contact with Jeremy at spec again hopefully we can work something out.
Those cracks must be there because something is contaminating your clutch disk...
Hopefully they take care of the situation, but this is something that shouldn't have been an issue in the first. Just more reason I'd never buy another SPEC.
------------------ | 1984 3800 Turbo / 5speed | 518hp on a Dyno-dynamics | 11.8 @ 129mph |
"Small cracks"? Those are life-threatening cracks. One can only guess the number of cycles left on that disk before it would come apart catastrophically, but I can assure you that you were lucky the transmission broke down for reasons other than the clutch hub failing. I hope for your own safety you're running a scatter shield.
IP: Logged
12:05 PM
Dennis LaGrua Member
Posts: 15475 From: Hillsborough, NJ U.S.A. Registered: May 2000
I've seen and heard of more problems with Spec Clutches that with any other product. IMO their product quality sucks and when you call their techical guy for advise he's an absolute azzhole with a confrontational stance. One day someones going to give that guy a fist, if they haven't already. Yes there are Spec clutches working out there but there are just as many failures with their products. Just read the archives. When we replace another high performance clutch we'll try Clutchnet. Having never tried them, I can't say that they are good but I particularly like the encapsulated spring design.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, 3.4" Pulley, N* TB, LS1 MAF, Flotech Exhaust Autolite 104's Custom CAI 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
IP: Logged
12:33 PM
Alex4mula Member
Posts: 7403 From: Canton, MI US Registered: Dec 1999
I think it is a combination of too much power + too much abuse. It would be nice if you could try a Clutchnet unit for us and see how it goes. I think there couldn't be anyone better than you for that durability test.
IP: Logged
12:58 PM
Fieroseverywhere Member
Posts: 4242 From: Gresham, Oregon USA Registered: Mar 2006
They sent you a 4 speed PP instead of the 5 speed PP. The rivets on the PP indicate that is a 4 speed PP and the rivets are rubbing on the highest part of the trans which is a circle area. Had this issue on a buddys car we installed a stock clutch set back into and at the time didn't know there was a difference in the 2 PP. We just got it all pulled back apart last week and swapped PPs out.
X2
I've had the same problem myself. Clutchnet has 2 different units also so watch out. The difference is with the clutchnet its not the rivets that contact the bellhousing. Its the inner lip next to them... FYI. That "circle area" is the seat for the output shaft bearing. Not a good thing.
[This message has been edited by Fieroseverywhere (edited 07-23-2010).]
Well the new kit got delivered today, I opened it up and it looks like I finally got the right pressure plate. I looked at the disk and its wrong. Its just like the first one they sent me with the hub put on inside out. So frustrating. I even reminded them in an email that this happened the first time and to make sure it was right. Alot of good that did.
IP: Logged
05:05 PM
darkhorizon Member
Posts: 12279 From: Flint Michigan Registered: Jan 2006
Well the new kit got delivered today, I opened it up and it looks like I finally got the right pressure plate. I looked at the disk and its wrong. Its just like the first one they sent me with the hub put on inside out. So frustrating. I even reminded them in an email that this happened the first time and to make sure it was right. Alot of good that did.
Wonder if there is another application that uses this disk that requires the hub to be pressed in the wrong way? I can't imagine them pressing them in the wrong way every other one thy make.....
I don't see how because you could never disengage the plate, the t/o just bottoms out on the disk. I called Jeremy and sent him pictures, he said he will get back to me tomorrow. I've missed so many fun events the past couple of weeks included a few $100 races at the circle tracks.
[This message has been edited by Justinbart (edited 08-03-2010).]
Well, I guess I was wrong... The disk ended up working with this plate. The fingers didn't bend down as much when I bolted it on. I also trimmed the t/o collar a tiny bit for some insurance. This clutch holds a lot better than the last one. under light to medium load it hasn't slipped yet, of course I will put a few hundred miles on it before I give it full boost. The last one would slip and screech just trying to get up to speed.
Now the problem is the spare trans I had doesn't have 5th gear. I got it from a junk yard a few years ago. It just grinds when I let out the clutch and have it in the 5th gear location. Its like its not "clicking" all the way in. I played with the linkages and put it in by hand but nothing changed. I guess I'll have to pull it back out and see what going on and possibly use parts from the other broken ones. It's just never ending with this little **** box.
This should finally be the right setup :fingers crossed:
[This message has been edited by Justinbart (edited 08-06-2010).]
