OK, just replaced the slave in my '88 with Rodney's slave and it is time to bleed. I also picked up Rodney's one-man bleeder.

Now, as I understand it, one compresses the slave and parks or raises the car so that the master is higher than the slave when gravity bleeding. Makes sense since the brake fluid must flow downhill.

If one wishes to use the more traditional method, does one park or raise the opposite end so the bubbles in the fluid travel up hill to reach the slave?

Comments and opinions on which method works best are solicited.

TIA,
Larry

I thought no matter which method you use, the master is higher than the bleeder valve.

I actually remove the slave from the transmission and tilt it so that the bleeder is high, then open it a crack. One easy pump of the clutch pedal is usually all I need to get it empty of air.

As I envision it with the pump method a front to rear tilt is not needed since you are moving the fluid quick enough to move the bubbles. A Slave Cylinder tilt is needed however to get the bubbles to migrate to the bleeder. The slave tilt could be accomplished by tilting the car left higher than right, or removing the slave itself. I feel that compressing the slave to a minimum during a 'car tilt' also leaves less room for bubbles to stay in the slave. I like the build pressure on the pedal, and while holding it have a second person crack the bleeder to get a surge of fluid exiting the bleeder to try to help 'sweep' the bubbles out. This method has worked for me. I feel using a vacuum bleeder on the slave bleeder just sucks air through the threads of a normal loosened bleeder valve.

quote Originally posted by phonedawgz: I feel using a vacuum bleeder on the slave bleeder just sucks air through the threads of a normal loosened bleeder valve.

This has been my experience, too. The vacuum tool has its uses, but sucking air from liquid is not its forte.

quote Originally posted by fyrebird68: This has been my experience, too. The vacuum tool has its uses, but sucking air from liquid is not its forte.

Hummm, has not been my experience at all. Replaced the clutch master cylinder on my Indy a couple monthes ago, took cap off and filled resevoir, cracked bleeder on slave, used Mighty Vac, all bled in 15 minutes or less with new fluid. Could not have been any easier.

Some seem to have bad luck with the bleeding on these cars, and I'm not sure why. I replaced all four brake hoses, and front calipers when I got the car a few years ago, and had no problem there either. Gravity bled the fronts, and used the mighty vac on the rear, only due to the longer runs of brake lines. Have not had to touched anything since. Keep the fluid full, and don't open the bleeder too far, and it should go just fine. If you think you are getting air past the bleeder threads, maybe put a thin wrap or two of teflon tape on the threads to help seal more. Don't go too far and get down to the hole on the bottom of the screw.

Kevin

I just replaced both my Master and Slave about two weeks ago.. The way i did it was before you bolt up the slave, compress the piston by hand too bleed it of air first.. Helps if you have a friend to open the bleeder for you.. Start putting pressure on the slave piston first, then crack the bleeder and let the fluid come out.. I did it 3 times just to make sure there was no air..

My driveway is a good incline so gravity bleeding was really easy.. If you cant get the car on an incline, just jack the front of the car up about a foot, then just crack the bleeder on the slave and let it drain.. Keep an eye on the master cause it will empty fairly quickly.. I let enough bleed out to fill the master about 4 times, then i was confident it was air free.. Took about 15 minutes to bleed it.

I replaced my select cable and slave cylinder last week with Rodney's parts. Also used his bleeder valve. I did not have to raise the car . I attached the bleeder valve and pushed the slave's piston in all the way while attached to the tranny and held it in with a small block of wood. I then pumped the clutch, slowly, to bleed the system. I topped off the fluid level after every three "pumps." When the lines were fully bled, I removed the wood block and topped off the fluid level again. Could not have been easier.

I had tried the Mity Vac but had poor results.

gravity.

The trick to gravity is to let it drain for about 20 mins, crank the bleeder closed, then jossle the pedal like a madman for 30 seconds, then crack the bleeder again, then let it sit over night.

I gravity bleed myself and it works the best for me. Just crack open the bleeder, keep it full abd don't be in a hurry.

On an empty system I tried gravity bleed and nothing happened. I always use the vacuum method until I see mostly fluid and then couple of pumps and opening the bleeder and done.

Follow the post in Archies faqs. if you bought a speed bleeder, write it off and throw it away. Foot and pump. takes about 5 minutes for an empty system. pay strict attention to the master fill level. (takes only 2 pumps to empty it if filling a system)
I have actually done it by myself with a stick, so if you can't do it, you either are not following instructions or something is really broke OR you should not pick up a tool.

[This message has been edited by tjm4fun (edited 04-27-2010).]

here's my clutch bleeding method, works great!!!!!!! I just hang upside -like an IV- a bottle -plastic can of break fluid with two hoses coming out of the cap- and connect one to the clutch cap fitting and when the fluid starts come of the other line I put the golf T back in. Bear in mind you the IV bottle needs to have the feed right a the cap -bottom when hanging upside down-
and the at the top to vent it. BTW: you need to pull the rubber bladder out of the resvour before you start. I then put something under the clutch peddle to keep as high as it will go, open the bleeder and either hit the vent line on the pastic bottle with a lil air presure or jsut wait for gravity to its job. Either way, presto after closing the bleeder and putting the bladder back in the resvour etc nice frim high clutch pedal. BTW: it really only takes a few minutes t amke the whole setup.

------------------
[IMG]




trueleo.com
RSpiderII@aol.com

am having trouble getting the clutch to disengege. I bled the system twenty times and no air is coming out. I get slight travel at the slave cylinder... just not enough. If i gauge it correctly i can put a pair of vise grips on the slave rod from preventing it from going back into the slave cylinder all of the way... clutch works like a champ then.... anyone have similiar problem??? slave and master are new

quote Originally posted by tjm4fun: so if you can't do it, you either are not following instructions or something is really broke OR you should not pick up a tool.

Actually any or ALL might just be the case!

At any rate here is what I am going to do, having searched and listened to all the advice so far:

The master has been cleaned and the system flushed. The pedal is steel and appears to be not bent. The banjo is facing the correct direction. Rodney's slave has been installed. Since I purchased Rodney's bleeding tool, I will try and use it with gravity as a fall back.

I will park on the curb cut of the drive way to raise the master cylinder.

then: -remove the bleeder and install Rodney's bleeder;
-compress the slave and hold compressed with a C-clamp;
-bleed the system, refilling reservoir every two pumps, using at least a pint of fluid;
-release the C-clamp and refill reservoir;
-perform the compress and release cycle until NO bubbles are visible and button it up.

Now, this will not happen until Friday due to previous VA Medical Center obligations, so you all have a few more days to try and convince me to do something else!

Regards to all of you, I really do appreciate all the help and advice.

Larry

To the OP: good luck with your clutch system bleed. My best advise, don't let any frustration get to you, keep thinking methodically.
I just had to do this myself today after replacing the master cylinder and it took a quart to get all the air out. I originally had the car in the garage to clean out a blockage in the heater line. The master cylinder gave up the ghost as I tried to back her out and I was pissed, not budgeting for this amount of down-time. My slave was replaced years ago and still appears to be in good shape. Since the slave is on the driver's side rear, I used a squeegee on an extension stick to push the pedal while operating the slave bleed screw wrench (crows foot on an extension) with the other hand. Only with a Fiero! I did jack up the car on the left side and compressed the slave rod (used someone's door wedge method) to try the "air out of the slave" trick. The pedal had about a half inch of soft play during almost all the bleed and never completely firmed up. There is still a little initial softness where I push the pedal and don't get full response at the slave leading me to think I might still have a small bubble, but it shifts now and wouldn't at other stages in the bleed and I'm out of fluid! We will see tomorrow. This did get frustrating and took many hours, hence my "keep cool" advise, I should have taken it as well. From now on I will inspect all joints in the line for leakage (while they are dry) before I begin. Once I started the bleed some fluid dripped down the flex-line hiding any old seepage I may have missed, but I was under the car several times recently and I inspect everything while I'm down there so I don't think that's an issue. I too thought I might be sucking in air because I kept getting bubbles from time to time. That's why I will inspect the entire line beforehand next time. There is also the possibility that the new master was sucking air and was defective right out of the box, but in my case the air was in four small groups and was expelled twice long after fresh fluid began bleeding out. I would expect more consistent air from a bad master (anyone differ on this?). Now I am questioning the jack-up-the-front method if you are not doing a gravity bleed. My car was sitting for years and the fluid looked like honey and ran slower than fresh fluid. When the bleed got to the point where fresh fluid was exiting the slave I expect the air bubbles moved more easily in the line and I wonder if jacking up the rear at that point would have helped the bubbles move in the direction of the bleed in between pumps and not the other way. Since I did this alone I made constant stops to refill the reservoir and had a few "loose my cool" breaks. This may have lead to the trapped air moving back in the line at longer intervals between pumps. Maybe it's best to have someone constantly filling the reservoir and don't stop until it's done or you run out of fluid. I like the earlier post of the I.V. drip-bag method, I'm going to build that with my old cap.
Again, best of luck and ignore those beautiful people who never have issues, I'll bet they have hemorrhoids and are not letting on! I'm glad you are keeping another Fiero alive.

[This message has been edited by BowtieBob (edited 05-13-2010).]

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: ...then crack the bleeder again, then let it sit over night.

???

And the reservoir doesn't go empty before morning? I must be missing something here.

Hi, Guys,

Just to close this out. Thanks for your advice and help!

Well, the method I described worked, thank heavens. But the clutch still did not release.

Problem turned out to be the infamous Low Clutch Pedal.

The cause turned out to me a misadjusted switch on the clutch pedal arm which prevented the clutch pedal from swinging all the way up and reducing the total throw of the system. (See other thread "Low Clutch Pedal....FIXED!!!").

Rodney's bleeder worked well, BTW, even for bleeding the slave cylinder. Since his bleeder has a check valve which is easily removable, it would also work well for gravity bleeding.

Anyway, thanks to all of you again for your advice and

Good Luck to you all on your own clutch problems!

Next: adventures in sticking emergency brakes!

Larry

is it possible to us one of those brake bleeder things that you install permantly on your calipers? the ones that are a spring check valve bleeder .

quote Originally posted by BowtieBob: Again, best of luck and ignore those beautiful people who never have issues, I'll bet they have hemorrhoids and are not letting on! I'm glad you are keeping another Fiero alive.

Not sure to whom you are refering to, but maybe they have more experience, and know what they are doing.....

Kevin

Maybe they do Kevin, but I am referring to the tone of the message not its creator’s automotive knowledge. If one is big enough to dish it out one is probably big enough to take it, this is still a friendly forum that any decent person can post on. I did not intend to flame anybody's advice, but even the best had to learn sometime and we all share that experience. A little encouragement sometimes goes a long way.

[This message has been edited by BowtieBob (edited 05-14-2010).]

TheLuber,
Check under the rubber boot of your slave for fluid. See if you are forcing fluid out of the cylinder past the seal and catching it inside the boot at the beginning of a full stroke. Sorry for the late post, you've probably solved your problem by now.

[This message has been edited by BowtieBob (edited 05-16-2010).]