I currently have a 4 barrel carb on my 350 (standard 5 1/8") with the Edelbrock Pro-Flo series air cleaner ( Summit part number EDL-1002). It has the foam filter which would melt a bit and get bits of it sucked in on my old 350, so I'm looking to replace it on my new one. The trick is finding something that'll fit without cutting the bracing under the hood.

I was also told with the new intake I have on there, the height of the filter *appears* to be about an inch to 1.5" higher. Won't know for sure till everything is back in completely. So I would *like* to find something that has a lower Net Height From Carb, but if I can't, I don't mind cutting into the decklid for clearance as long as I'm not cutting up those bracings underneath... I think those need ot stay in tact, right?

I can do most of this lookup on Summit, but I wanted to see what other people were using and if they were happy with it (or they might have something that works great that Summit doesn't carry!)

I'm working on switching over to EFI, but that's some months off so I need a good fix in the meantime. Thanks!

Here's a few I was looking at that have very similiar length/width dimensions to the one I have, so I think these would fit...
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MRG-9156G/
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MOR-66210/


And I really liked this one... I just don't think it's going to fit.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EDL-1222/

Thanks again!

[This message has been edited by Trinten (edited 06-30-2010).]

You had me until you said you didn't want to cut the hood

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SPE-98499/
I have been thinking about using something like this and building a custom filter box to take advantage of my huge side scoops.

Currently I have a standard 10" round filter and have the deck lid cut out and a Mopar scoop installed

I don't mind cutting into the hood, but I don't want to carve up the bracing under it. Someone else had posted that in my build thread, but then I need to buy the filter and attachment for it, and by then the cost is likely to be around 130+ at least (because if I do that, I'm going to run piping to get it by the air-intake on the driver side).

I appreciate the idea though!

I didn't have to cut my bracing. Just the part between the braces.

Okay! So that other piece of bracing that was in there, that formed the "curve", and wasnt' as pronounced as the trunk seperator brace/barrier, that can be removed without messing up the integrity of the decklid? Not too much flex, you haven't had any cracks come up where your scoop connects to the decklid?

And how much room is between the center of your carb and to the edge your distributor?

Thanks!

(sorry for the double-edit)

[This message has been edited by Trinten (edited 06-30-2010).]

quote Originally posted by Jake_Dragon: You had me until you said you didn't want to cut the hood http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SPE-98499/ I have been thinking about using something like this and building a custom filter box to take advantage of my huge side scoops. Currently I have a standard 10" round filter and have the deck lid cut out and a Mopar scoop installed

that carb hat is the one i will using with the stock air box for my carbed v8.

I use the 14" Corvette style air cleaner with a K&N 2" cleaner. It flows at around 1200 cfm and is overall 2.25" tall. Here it is on my little engine
Edit. Notice I have a collar to raise it up over my distributor. Normally it rides allot lower.



Arn

[This message has been edited by Arns85GT (edited 06-30-2010).]

Thanks guys!

Arn - that's pretty impressive. The most flow I need at the moment is only about 750 at max (according to my builder), but it's still pretty slick. The collar for raising it's height, is that an easy-to-find piece? Is it a universal thing, or something specific to that filter? When you bought the cleaner, what year Vette did you use to get the right part? Or should I just look at round 14" K&N filters and it should jump out at me?

Billy - if I still had anything of the original intake, besides the initial short piece of hose that comes into the engine bay, I'd probably go with that.

The collar I got at my local speed shop. I think it was a Mr. Gasket.

The issue you may have is clearing the passenger side support beam.

If you go to K&N website, you can get the flow rates for the various filter sizes. It may be that the 9" by 2" will do the job nicely

Arn

My scoop isn't glassed in so no cracks.
I don't know if I want to keep it or not. The carb hat would let me pull cold air from a box and I could use a larger square air filter.
The air cleaner sits in the round part of the cut out. I have solid motor mounts or it would probably be an issue. The top of the breather is pushed over because of a brace I have holding my scoop down but I plan on removing it and going a different way.

I have a tunnel ram on my Vette and every time I walk by it I think how good it would look sticking out of the back of my Fiero lol

I couldn't find the CFM flow charts anywhere on K&Ns website, but I did find this.

"Use the formula below to compute the minimum size filter required for your particular application. The usable portion of the filter is called the EFFECTIVE FILTERING AREA which is determined by multiplying the diameter of the filter times Pi (3.1416) times the height of the air filter in inches, then subtracting .75-inch. We subtract .75-inch to compensate for the rubber seals on each end of the element and the filter material near them since very little air flows through this area.


A = effective filtering area
CID = cubic inch displacement
RPM = revolutions per minute at maximum power

Example: A 350 CID Chevy engine with a horsepower peak at 5,500 rpm.

A= 350 x 5500 / 20839 = 92.4

If you are sizing a panel filter, multiply the width of the filter area (not the rubber seal) times its length. If you are sizing a round filter, use the following formula to determine the height of the filter.

A / (D x 3.14) + .75

A = effective filtering area
H = height
D = outside diameter of the filter
3.14 = pi
0.75 = the rubber end caps

Example:
92.4 / (12 x 3.14) + .75 = 3.20

Referencing the K&N catalog shows the proper filter for this application would be an E-1500 which is 3.5 inches tall. Keep in mind, this is the minimum size requirement. To extend the service interval and to provide an even greater volume of air to the engine, install the largest filter that will fit in the space allotted. If the space above the engine is restrictive, perhaps a remote filter arrangement could be used to gain space."
So the 9inch diameter 2 inch tall solid top by itself won't be enough! But they make "filter tops" for the units, which figuring the area of a disk, though these are pretty expensive. So I need to play around with the numbers. They also say it's better to increase your diameter and not the height, that short, wide filters flow more air than a smaller diameter, but taller, filter. Thought it might be useful information for anyone else that was interested.

Off to do more math!

[This message has been edited by Trinten (edited 06-30-2010).]

The air cleaner I am using is illustrated below. Mine is the knock off of the Moroso. I have a spare Moroso in my garage if you want to experiment. You can have it for the shipping cost. You are quite correct about the sizing. Every inch of diameter adds allot of cfm.

Arn

I have tried a variety of air cleaners, but getting one large enough without cutting the engine cover was a real problem. For some reason, I also had a problem with height and the air cleaner just rubbing the inside of the engine cover. So after some research, I used a Spectre low profile plenum/inline air box kit #7538. It's pretty much all chrome and the air is picked up from the Aus Fiero side scoop, filters through the inline filter and is fed into the carb via the low profile plenum. It takes a little snaking through the shift cables, but will fit with some fiddling. It was not real cheap, so if you are replacing it later, it might not be worth the money. I think I bought it from Summit and it was around $230.00 or so.

Hey BJC!

Thanks for the info. Now that I know I can get rid of the smaller supports, and just leave the MAIN cross-support, I'm less apprehensive about cutting bigger openings into the hood.

Jake - what is the diameter of your filter?

quote Originally posted by Trinten: Hey BJC! Thanks for the info. Now that I know I can get rid of the smaller supports, and just leave the MAIN cross-support, I'm less apprehensive about cutting bigger openings into the hood. Jake - what is the diameter of your filter?

10 x 3 1/2 But I can go taller if I need to.
Thats another reason I want to go with the cold air box and cone filter, I can fit a larger cone filter or flat filter and pull cold air from the side scoop. My current setup isn't sealed so its pulling hot air.

I am using the Edelbrock 10" diameter signature series air cleaner with a K&N air cleaner for a 1978 Mercedes Benz.
The air filter is 10" diamter and 3.35" tall. I did this so the air filter sticks up into the decklid scoop. With the stock 2" filter that it comes with it just barely fit under the decklid.



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Happiness isn't around the corner...
Happiness IS the corner.
ZZ4 Powered !!

[This message has been edited by Oreif (edited 07-01-2010).]

Trinten,

Do you currently have a noticeable difference in the seat-of-the-pants feel in power between when the engine is cold vs. fully warmed up? If so a cold air intake is something you may want to consider. You lose ~1% of horsepower for 10 degree increase of intake air temperature above ambient. In most front engine vehicles the difference is typically about 50* and its worse in the Fiero - especially at low speeds. With no decklid scoop, you're engine bay is an oven and an open air cleaner is positioned to take in some of the hottest air under the decklid. A 50-70* difference on a mild 300hp V8 equates to ~15-21hp. That's an easy 15-21hp waiting for you to take back. I picked up a used low profile carb hat, K&N cone filter, and Spectre modular plastic intake sections to make my setup and plumb into the original air inlet for about $120. Use your creativity and you can some up with something that both looks good and helps performance. The best part is you can reuse most of it when you go to fuel injection later on.



On a side note, I've always found it kind of funny that a lot of classic muscle cars you see are running open air cleaners. The OEM's did a good job back in the day at ensuring muscle cars had cold air or ram air from the factory (and this is still the case with modern fuel injected vehicles) but when most people soup up their engines they strip out the ducting and top the motor off with open air cleaners and shiny stuff. It's all for show and not for go.

[This message has been edited by RyanFromMichigan (edited 07-01-2010).]

Awesome! Thanks Jake and Oreif!

So it appears that a 10" round is the largest diameter that will clear the passanger side longitudinal support. (that's why I was asking what size your filter was Jake, between the pics you and Oreif put up, definitely solidifies that).

Though Jake, you gave me a good idea, with that whole "sealed" thing. I think what I might try to do is build a "bowl" or something around the filter, that seals against the cutout in the decklid.. hmmm....

Thanks again guys!

Edit - Hey Ryan, thanks for the pic! You do make a good point on possibly reusing the parts when I get my fuel injection stuff done. So you just got the hat, some piping, and a cone filter to strap onto it and called it a day. Cool.

And with my old engine, yes there was a noticable difference if it the engine was hot (or even if it was really hot outside!) No idea on the new engine as it's not fully installed yet.

Thanks!

[This message has been edited by Trinten (edited 07-01-2010).]

I have a similar setup to RYANFROMMICHIGAN, a carb hat on my throttle body and pipework leading down to my drivers side scoop where I have a SPECTRE air filter, I also have any fuel injection intake temp sensor down near the air filter, picks up cooler air and keeps the engine running better than having the sensor up near the TB.

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84SE, aero body, 4 speed and an injected 355 V8

Wow, very nice and clean and slick looking!

So what sort of air measuring system are you running? MAP or MAF or? So you have the air charge sensor near the start, and your flow measuringn stuff up near the manifold?

quote Originally posted by Trinten: Wow, very nice and clean and slick looking! So what sort of air measuring system are you running? MAP or MAF or? So you have the air charge sensor near the start, and your flow measuringn stuff up near the manifold?

Thanks, its an Edelbrock Pro-Flo Speed Density system, and yes the flow measuring sensors are up on the TB and as I mentioned the inlet air temp sensor is down near the air filter so now is registers roughly the outside air temp, before when it was installed in a normal pancake filter on top of the engine it would show temps of 150+ degress, which was then affecting the mixture sent to the engine, works better where it is now and was suggested on the edelbrock injection help page, although not in their instalation manual !

Mine was very similar to Mafv8s. I got the cap and tube off of an early 90s Jeep Grand Cherokee and used a cone filter at the end of the tube. I had a 383 stroker with Edelbrock carb. I also used a fiber spacer under the carb to eliminate fuel boiling out of the bowls in traffic.