OK so I got the SC engine but without an ECU or harness. Here's what I do have: 3800 NA with ECU & harness from '95 Buick (IIRC). 3800 SC believed to be mid-'90s. I'm going to do a compression check when I get a chance. How to identify the engine? What are my options? 1) Use the NA ECU & harness with the SC. 2) Put the SC on the NA engine. 3) Sell the SC - use the NA & turbo it. 4) Sell the NA with ECU & harness & buy SC ECU & harness. 5) Push the car over the cliff & forget about it. 6) Other? ~ Paul aka "Tha Driver"
A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have. - Thomas Jefferson.
IP: Logged
11:56 PM
PFF
System Bot
Jul 1st, 2010
Fieroking Member
Posts: 2150 From: Coeur D Alene Idaho USA Registered: Jun 2002
The easiest way to tell a series II 3800 is to look at the exhaust manifold a Series II will have exhaust port, spark plug, exhaust port,spark plug, exhaust port, spark plug. You can put the Super Charger on the 3800 na block. Look on the 60 Degree V6 Forum they have threads on doing that.
Joe Sokol
------------------ 85 SE Daily driver with a 3.4 DOHC OBD II 88 Formula/GT 4.9 Allante Intake (My Baby)
IP: Logged
01:05 AM
longgonefiero Member
Posts: 37 From: Spangdahlem Germany Registered: May 2010
One thing to remember is that the 3800 N/A engine is slightly diffrent and might not handle alot of boost. If the 3800 S/C checks out I would stick with that maybe even ditch the S/C and convert it to a Turbo.
OK two of the plugs are next to each other on both engines. I'm aware that the NA engine does not have the stronger rods & pistons, & that it has more compression (as I understand from what I've read here). I really really like the idea of having a supercharger. And I really really like the idea of adding more boost via pulleys. So...
[This message has been edited by Tha Driver (edited 07-01-2010).]
You can boost the n/a motor it will hold boost quite well I did it myself. You have to do a full top swap. Or try and find a ssm90 intake manifold but they're very pricy. Anyhow full top swap included heads lower intake mani and obviously s/c. Belt tensioners fuel rail and injectors and harmonic balancer. Now beings the compression is different you will be pushing more power with a stock size pully compared to a stock s/c motor. A 3.5 pully on the topswapped engine is about smallest you want to go. Injectors will push it fine and you won't have too much to worry about. If you have all the parts right there your golden! I personally would swap the s/c topend right onto the n/a motor you will love the power gain. If you want to read more into it jump on clubgp.com there's many people who've done top swaps and are willing to help anyone out.
IP: Logged
08:33 AM
darkhorizon Member
Posts: 12279 From: Flint Michigan Registered: Jan 2006
Not 100% sure on the Series I motor. The Series II motor everything in the same on the N/A versus SC with the exception of the MAP sensor plug is different and there is no boost bypass (also I was told that injector plugs are different 99+).You can however loot the missing plugs off other harnesses from the junkyard...
The series II 3800SC was built stronger to handle the boost over the N/A version but on the series I the bottom end is the same whether it is SC or N/A. They basically took a stock series I and bolted a super charger to it so you can use either block you have and bolt the SC parts to it and be fine. Wiring wise the problems I have with the series I's is they moved things around like the location of the knock sensor between years and models as well as the EGR is different in the 94/5 models over the older ones. Dan
The series II 3800SC was built stronger to handle the boost over the N/A version but on the series I the bottom end is the same whether it is SC or N/A. They basically took a stock series I and bolted a super charger to it so you can use either block you have and bolt the SC parts to it and be fine. Wiring wise the problems I have with the series I's is they moved things around like the location of the knock sensor between years and models as well as the EGR is different in the 94/5 models over the older ones. Dan
OK so I can go with either engine & just use the SC top end. And the NA wiring can be used with maybe a few mods. What about the NA ECU? Will it work with the SC or do I need to locate one made for the SC? Remember I'm on a VERY tight budget... Thanks everyone! ~ Paul aka "Tha Driver"
Contact Darth or some one else that programs series I PCM's and ask if the PCM you have can be programmed for an SC engine, either way you go I would reccomend getting the PCM programmed to remove the VATs and unwanted emissions codes. Dan
Contact Darth or some one else that programs series I PCM's and ask if the PCM you have can be programmed for an SC engine, either way you go I would reccomend getting the PCM programmed to remove the VATs and unwanted emissions codes. Dan
What's his username? I tried PMing Darthfiero (from memory) & just Darth but it didn't work...
IP: Logged
11:40 PM
PFF
System Bot
Jul 2nd, 2010
Darth Fiero Member
Posts: 5921 From: Waterloo, Indiana Registered: Oct 2002
What's his username? I tried PMing Darthfiero (from memory) & just Darth but it didn't work...
It's "Darth Fiero". And yes I can tune virtually all 3800 PCMs, new and old. If you have a 3800 Series 1 engine, I recommend using the correct generation computer that matches it. GM changed the EGR valve used on these engines starting in 1994 model year so the older ones are different and require a different computer be used. If you could take a picture of your engine and post it up here, we could probably tell you what year or at least what version it is.
-ryan
------------------ 7+ years on this same swap -- NO engine or transmission failures... Custom GM OBD1 & OBD2 Tuning | Engine Conversions & more | www.gmtuners.com
It's "Darth Fiero". And yes I can tune virtually all 3800 PCMs, new and old. If you have a 3800 Series 1 engine, I recommend using the correct generation computer that matches it. GM changed the EGR valve used on these engines starting in 1994 model year so the older ones are different and require a different computer be used. If you could take a picture of your engine and post it up here, we could probably tell you what year or at least what version it is.
-ryan
Very sinister of you you to use a blank space in your username, Ryan. I finally made the time to make a webpage with the engine pics: http://angelonearth.net/customfiero.html So I can use the ecu from the NA on the SC engine if you program it? How much do you charge for that? THANKS! ~ Paul aka "Tha Driver"
"Looks like we have a "D2IK" situation." (Damn If I Know)
[This message has been edited by Tha Driver (edited 07-28-2010).]
IP: Logged
03:50 PM
Darth Fiero Member
Posts: 5921 From: Waterloo, Indiana Registered: Oct 2002
Very sinister of you you to use a blank space in your username, Ryan. I finally made the time to make a webpage with the engine pics: http://angelonearth.net/customfiero.html So I can use the ecu from the NA on the SC engine if you program it? How much do you charge for that? THANKS! ~ Paul aka "Tha Driver"
"Looks like we have a "D2IK" situation." (Damn If I Know)
Both engines you have pictured on your website are Series 1 engines. One is a Supercharged (vin 1) and the other is a L27 N/A (vin L). The L27 you have pictured is a 1994 or 1995 model year as indicated by the type of EGR valve that is on it. I can't see the EGR valve on the SC engine so I can't tell if it is a 1992-93, or 1994-95. If the SC engine has the same EGR valve on it that is on your L27 engine, then it is a 1994-95.
Now why does this matter? In 1994, GM went to the linear EGR valve on the 3800 engines. Before that, they used the digital (3 solenoid) EGR valve. The 1994-95 PCM will not work with a digital EGR, it will only work with a linear EGR. So if you must run an EGR valve then you will need to use the computer that works properly with it. If you are going to be removing/disabling the EGR, then you can use any 1992-95 PCM you want to control the engine.
4T60e, manually (paddle) shifted. No need for the ecu to work the trans at all. EGR is the same on both engines, but I sure don't mind eliminating it. THANKS, Ryan! ~ Paul aka "Tha Driver"
IP: Logged
05:15 PM
Darth Fiero Member
Posts: 5921 From: Waterloo, Indiana Registered: Oct 2002
4T60e, manually (paddle) shifted. No need for the ecu to work the trans at all. EGR is the same on both engines, but I sure don't mind eliminating it. THANKS, Ryan! ~ Paul aka "Tha Driver"
Ok, well email me if you are interested in getting the chip tuned...
sp1@gmtuners.com
IP: Logged
06:18 PM
esco105 Member
Posts: 151 From: Springfield, MA Registered: Jul 2010
I have a PCM and complete wiring harness off of a 95 Riviera 3800 SC I'm willing to sell....I even have a Ignition Control Module for that engine that I will just give to you. PM me and we can talk. Marc
I have a PCM and complete wiring harness off of a 95 Riviera 3800 SC I'm willing to sell....I even have a Ignition Control Module for that engine that I will just give to you. PM me and we can talk. Marc
Ummm.... I think we need telephones to actually TALK... PM'ed back at'cha. Thanks, ~ Paul aka "Tha Driver"
NBA player in an interview (real) talking about how he can dribble with either hand: "Yeah, I be amphibious all my life".
IP: Logged
02:54 AM
jsketcham Member
Posts: 434 From: Meadville, Pa, USA Registered: Jan 2009
It's "Darth Fiero". And yes I can tune virtually all 3800 PCMs, new and old. If you have a 3800 Series 1 engine, I recommend using the correct generation computer that matches it. GM changed the EGR valve used on these engines starting in 1994 model year so the older ones are different and require a different computer be used. If you could take a picture of your engine and post it up here, we could probably tell you what year or at least what version it is.
-ryan
He did my programming on my series II 3800 SC and I love it!. He has my vote!
