ive been stuck on how i should do the belt routing for my 3800 swap. ive got a low mount alt. so some thing shave come off (power steering, and coolant tubes) heres what it looks like so far,



i know i can do it any way i want really, but what im really lookin for is a way to do it without welding.

Looks like you borked any chance of putting the stock tensioner on, so you are pretty much on your own when it comes to installing a tensioner in this system.

If you removed that stupid dogbone mount, you would stand a chance putting a stock tensioner in there, and running it with a grooved pulley.

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: Looks like you borked any chance of putting the stock tensioner on, so you are pretty much on your own when it comes to installing a tensioner in this system. If you removed that stupid dogbone mount, you would stand a chance putting a stock tensioner in there, and running it with a grooved pulley.

Don't you need the upper dogbone mount?
I am asking because I am starting a 3800sc swap myself...

dark, what do you use instead of the dogbone mount then?

quote Originally posted by ALJR: Don't you need the upper dogbone mount? I am asking because I am starting a 3800sc swap myself...

You dont need it if you mount your setup with 4 mounts. Or you can use a lower strut to keep the motor from rocking. There are tons of pictured on here with information on building a lo mount. People still have to try new ways for some reason though....

DH failed hard at using the GP dogbone that is why he doesnt like using them....

quote Originally posted by MstangsBware: You dont need it if you mount your setup with 4 mounts. Or you can use a lower strut to keep the motor from rocking. There are tons of pictured on here with information on building a lo mount. People still have to try new ways for some reason though.... DH failed hard at using the GP dogbone that is why he doesnt like using them....

I never failed (it works fine still to this day), I just dont like the effort involved to run one (IE welding, which is what the op didnt want).

You can put a mount on the lower side in that corner instead of having the dogbone style mount up top. Tons of ways to do this, so many that it really does not do much to suggest a way, as whatever you have laying around is going to work best.

Just wanted to butt in real quick for an off topic question:
Can you please post pictures of your oil dipstick and where the dipstick plugs into the block? I can't find where it goes on my L67 and its driving me crazy!!!

darkhorizon & MstangsBware what mounts are you using?

------------------
'88 GT, 3800 SC II, IMSA/MC widebody combo, Choptop, Borla exhaust, GT-One NSX Headlights.
FGTO Build thread ~> Link

quote Originally posted by FierociousGT: darkhorizon & MstangsBware what mounts are you using?

I am using WCF on my personal car. I have used everyones mounts on other swaps I have done. That includes Fieros X, WCF and Fiero Addiction. All of them worked well with some needing some help along the way for fitment......All mounts were used with the matching poly mounts along with either an upper dogbone mount or a lower strut mount........

quote Originally posted by duckwalk39: Just wanted to butt in real quick for an off topic question: Can you please post pictures of your oil dipstick and where the dipstick plugs into the block? I can't find where it goes on my L67 and its driving me crazy!!!

The oil dipstick will be on the front side of the engine by the firewall.
It's hard to get see if it's in the car.
It sticks up about as high as the valve cover and pokes between the first two exhaust tubes on the manifold, right above the AC compressor.

And this was the way my belts routed...

[This message has been edited by 2002z28ssconv (edited 07-21-2010).]

quote Originally posted by FierociousGT: darkhorizon & MstangsBware what mounts are you using?

Custom low mounts. Nearly perfectly centers the transmission between the hubs, but pushes the motor a bit further towards the battery area.

2002z28ssconv how did you do that belt routing? did it involve welding?

and DH, got any pics of the way yours is mounted?

same ??? for MstangsBware...

and thanks guys this is what ive been stuck on for a long time with my engine swap, so any info is reaaaaalllly helpful

First of all, where did all of your stock pulley go?
Secondly, the pulley that you have between the AC and the H2O pump is HUGE.
Is it just an idler pulley?

The setup I shared in that picture isn't mine, but it's very close.
I bought the dog bone / tensioner / alternator mount bracket from Lloyde a LONG time ago.

Regardless, you will have to incorporate two tensioners. One for the AC / Alt / water pump belt. One for the super charger belt.
Figure out where you can add those. You'll also need to add an idler pulley for the supercharger.
Looking at this picture, the crank pulley is going to be turning clockwise. Think of the belt as a clock.
When it comes to belt routing, you want to keep the spring loaded tensioners on belt at a later time than the crank pulley.
If it's on the "earlier" side of the crank pulley, the resistance caused by the AC compressor or the super charger will cause the tensioner to compress when the crank pulls the belt.
This will lead to belt slippage and possibly thrown belts.
Something to keep in mind...
The alternator doesn't cause that much drag on the belt so it's okay to have the alternator between the crank and the tensioner.
If you can keep the tensioners right after the crank before any accessories, that is best.

Your best bet for the supercharger is to use stock components. 99 GTP SC idler seems to be the most popular.
The SC tensioners are the same between the different models.

Then all you need is on tensioner for the accessories belt. There are MANY different designs for tensioners. You ought to be able to find a way to bolt one to your dog bone or alt brackets. Keep in mind that you can get ribbed or smooth pulleys. They're interchangable, cheap and available at your local parts store.

quote Secondly, the pulley that you have between the AC and the H2O pump is HUGE.

thats what came on the engine. i didn't mess with that at all. besides cleaning and painting. that's what was already there.

i know i need to add tensoiners. ive got some, i just dont know where/how to add them without welding. ill just have to keep thinkin about it i guess.

if anyones got any more ideas id appreciate it.

Couple of quick questions for you experianced 3800sc guys...

Is that aluminum dogbone mount pictured above from a doner car, or is it custom? Where can I get one for my 98 Bonni 3800sc motor?

Also, how much of the belt should be making contact with there pullies (ie: 90, 120, 180 220 deg of the pully)? I ask this because couldn't you get away w/ just the tensioner pully for the sc belt; mounted where the idler pully is. Or would that not provide enough "grip"? I am asking because I read that "sometimes" the idler sc pully may not clear the firewall...

[This message has been edited by ALJR (edited 07-23-2010).]

quote Originally posted by ALJR: Couple of quick questions for you experianced 3800sc guys... Is that aluminum dogbone mount pictured above from a doner car, or is it custom? Where can I get one for my 98 Bonni 3800sc motor? Also, how much of the belt should be making contact with there pullies (ie: 90, 120, 180 220 deg of the pully)? I ask this because couldn't you get away w/ just the tensioner pully for the sc belt; mounted where the idler pully is. Or would that not provide enough "grip"? I am asking because I read that "sometimes" the idler sc pully may not clear the firewall...

The aluminuim dogbone is from the donor car and can be found on both NA/SC motors......The only way a pulley is going to touch the firewall is if you are running the aluminuim style SC tensioner bracket...Most swap over to the steel versino that comes in the GTPs and some buicks....If you have the aluminuim style tensioner then you need to swap over to the steel version.....These parts can be gotten from CGP or Ed Morad.....

The pulley closest to the firewall (far right in the picture) is not a tensioner. It's an idler pulley.
That is the one most people swap out for the GTP version. I still have the Riviera pulley on mine.
However, mine isn't running yet. Hopefully very soon...
It has been in the car and looked like clearance wouldn't be a problem but the GTP pulley tucks it in closer to the engine.
The other idler pulley is located just above the crank pulley, in between the water pump and the AC.
Both of the idler pulleys in the picture have silver bolts.
The SC "tensioner" in the picture has a black bolt.
I don't know if you can mount the tensioner in place of the idler that's below it.
But having that idler there assures you that there will be over 180 degrees of SC belt contact on the crank pulley.
It takes a lot of friction to spin the super charger. The more contact with the crank pulley, the happier your belt will be.

[This message has been edited by 2002z28ssconv (edited 07-23-2010).]

MstangsBware - Thank you! I now see the aluminum DB mount on the back corner of the motor that I need to use. Is it a direct fit or do I have to do some fab work to make it fit? Also, does that tensioner just bolt up or do I need to mad it to work? Will the stock dog bone work, or will I have to purchase one specific for this swap (and who sells them?)? I looked at the idler pulley closest to the fire wall; it appears to me mounted to the steel bracket that holds the coil packs. Will I have to purchase the GTP mount? If so, what year/make/model should I be looking for?

Also, is this a mistake "If you have the aluminum style tensioner then you need to swap over to the steel version"? Were you referring to the aluminum style idler closest to the fire wall? My SC tensioner is aluminum and also attaches to the metal coil pack bracket. It looks like the once pictured; although it is unclear from the picture what it is mounted to...

2002z28ssconv - Thank you too!

+'s for both of you

I am thinking of doing mine as pictured above. Any reason why I should not? Will that aluminum DB bracket hold up?
The tensioner that is on the acc. belt; is it smooth or ribbed?

Thanks guys for the help,
AL

[This message has been edited by ALJR (edited 07-23-2010).]

Accessory tensioner pulley = ribbed.
SC tensioner pulley = smooth.
Left SC idler pulley = smooth.
Right SC idler pulley = ribbed.

2002z28ssconv you have a PM

quote Originally posted by ALJR: Couple of quick questions for you experianced 3800sc guys... Is that aluminum dogbone mount pictured above from a doner car, or is it custom? Where can I get one for my 98 Bonni 3800sc motor? Also, how much of the belt should be making contact with there pullies (ie: 90, 120, 180 220 deg of the pully)? I ask this because couldn't you get away w/ just the tensioner pully for the sc belt; mounted where the idler pully is. Or would that not provide enough "grip"? I am asking because I read that "sometimes" the idler sc pully may not clear the firewall...

Yes that is the bracket from the donor engine. I actually milled it down to 1.000" in the area of the tensioner which happens to be from a 1995 ford windstar.I drilled a hole in the dog bone bracket for the stop pin on the tensioner. A bolt goes through the tensioner and the DB bracket and into the tapped hole in the head. I would be best is this bracket was steel instead of aluminum. I have had this set up for four years without a belt problem.

------------------



" DRIVE IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT"

Here's mine which may give a better view of smooth vs ribbed tensioners. Ignore the dogbone as it is the same as the GTP style others are using but I milled it out of 1" thick aluminum instead. Also ignore my notes on the crank pulley and the random spark plugs on the floor

quote Originally posted by AlanD: Here's mine which may give a better view of smooth vs ribbed tensioners. Ignore the dogbone as it is the same as the GTP style others are using but I milled it out of 1" thick aluminum instead. Also ignore my notes on the crank pulley and the random spark plugs on the floor

What did you use to mount your "low-mount" altinator?
Does your DB mount position the DB in the stock location to mount up the the chassis using a stock DB? Any plans on offering the mounts to us PFF members?

The dogbone mount I made lines up exactly with the current trunk wall mount. The dogbone length is cutom but since I figured I would have to make one for the GTP mount it would be no big deal. I'll gladly finish up the CAD drawing when I can and post it but make no guarantee on it fitting any other install - too much variation in engine mounting left to right to do that.

I would really rather not make them for several reasons. First I am new to machining and using a very old CNC Bridgeport so between learning to use the machine and the time to design it I probably have $1000 in time in it I doubt it would get a lot faster since my machine cannot exactly hog the things out. Second the materials are expensive. It uses about a square foot of 1" thick aluminum. Lastly I have a ton of other projects going on including wrapping up the install so doubt pople want an extremely long wait time to get them.

The alternator is a 2001 Grand Prix model as near as I can tell. The upper bolt passes through my dogbone mount which acts as a spacer to line up the belts. The bottom is a flat bar which mounts to the flat section of the alternator. The bar has a piece of the original top alternator mount welded to it that bolts to a hole in the engine block. I can take some closer pictures but I am fairly ashamed of my welding.