my 3800 series II swap went pretty smooth and after a week of running it with no codes i get hit with a P0336 code... Sooooo I look it up and it is a Crankshaft position sensor. I ask on the forums about it and the few that replied said replace it.. Sooooo I go and get me a AC Delco replacement part and do the changeout... fired up the car with no codes for about 1 min then SeS comes on.. I then goto Auto zone and get the codes cleared thinking it is just residue code from before the replacement... I drive home which is about 3 miles and tada the code comes on just before i get in the driveway.. when I read the codes though it throws 2 codes but both are the same P0336... any idea why it does that? Any rate I take a look at the Crank Position Sensor plugin and it isnt corroded, no frail wires, no noticeable problems... I check the wires for continuity from the plug to the PCM and the wires are good. So i'm at wits end now about what to do.. I hate to even think of pulling the SeS bulb out and ignore it. but what else can i do.. Any idears?
------------------ 1987 Fiero GT FB 3800 series II SC.
I'm guessing you are running the obd2 ecu correct? If so if you use a tuner such as hptuners you can turn the specific cel off so your check engine light doesn't come on for that code. I've tuned a few gtps and j bodies usually turn off egr codes and 2nd o2 sensor codes. But have on occasions had to turn different ones off for customers.
Have you cleared the codes with the scanner, and then immediately disconnected the negative battery cable for a few minutes?
Try that, and see if they come back. Some scan tools can't fully clear things, because some codes get stored in different places. Crank sensor malfunction could affect timing, and emissions, and will get stored in a secondary location in the ECU.
If you do that, and it still keeps coming back, see if you can get a scan tool that shows you live info with the engine running hooked up. Check the timing info in the scanner, and see if it's right.
Maybe check the cam position sensor readings too.
I can't say for sure what it is, but these are the places I would probably start looking, were it my car.
well the scan tool was from autozone.. a basic scan code reader.. but yeah i erased the codes... did not unhook the battery though. I can try that tomorrow with any luck. I don't know anything about using a scanner tool for live readings and such.. nor would i have a clue how to read the data it produces. I had hopes there was a cable like you can use for ODB1 with winaldl...
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09:42 PM
jsketcham Member
Posts: 434 From: Meadville, Pa, USA Registered: Jan 2009
Originally posted by jsketcham: the wiring was never cut out of the harness when i took it out of the Regal GS.. so from the CPS >>>PCM it is all factory with no splices..
Unplug the sensor and PCM, and check resistance on all the crank sensor wires, one probe at the sensor end, and one probe at the pcm end. Maybe there is somewhere in the middle that it rubbed against something, or got too hot, and is shorting out a little every now and then?
well the scan tool was from autozone.. a basic scan code reader.. but yeah i erased the codes... did not unhook the battery though. I can try that tomorrow with any luck. I don't know anything about using a scanner tool for live readings and such.. nor would i have a clue how to read the data it produces. I had hopes there was a cable like you can use for ODB1 with winaldl...
There are cables, and software you can use for the OBDII cars as well. But WinALDL itself won't do it. The scan tool the use at auto zone to read the codes might be able to show live data too. And it would just show you appropriate values for the timing and such if it did, I would think. Worth asking them if it can do it anyway.
Some of the more expensive ones do, and they might have one of the really cheap ones up front to read the codes. If it can't, no big deal. Check the other things first.
It'll be a bit harder to do, but you can check timing the old fashioned way with a light, too. It's a lot easier without a belt, but you probably don't want to take it off. You might want to look into getting a reasonably good scan tool anyway. There are many different communication methods with OBD-II though, so any tool you do get may not work with other vehicles, even other GM vehicles.
The OBD2 pcm needs to have the CKS variance learn done. This allows the PCM to learn the slight variance needed between the crank sensor and cam sensor to detect misfire. The PCM then uses this info to check for slight variances in timing from the CKS to detect misfire in the individual cylinders. I believe HPTuners can perform the learn, and know that the GM Tech II can.
Basically, you enable the learn, then hold 3000 RPM for a while, then hold redline for a while as the pcm shuts off injectors one at a time to learn where the timing hits are.
didnt get to try it today.. autozones el cheapo reader couldnt do it.. went to get a snapon one from a local garage and he was sick today.. Soooo.. no good luck today.. guess i'll have to buy one if this is going to become a problem. lol.
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05:16 PM
aaronkoch Member
Posts: 1643 From: Spokane, WA Registered: Aug 2003
The only ones I know for sure that can are the high-end ones used by pros / rich people.
HP Tuners GM's Tech II Snap-on's pro one, etc.
Good luck, I'll be doing the same thing here in a couple of weeks on my '97 3800. Lucky for me though, there is a very fiero-friendly speed shop 2 miles from my house.
yeah. they sell one of the ones that will do it at autozone, but will not rent it out.. lol.. such is life, tomorrow I might get lucky and get one from a local garage to use.. I hope.
------------------ A Forum that plays together... Stays together...
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10:24 PM
aaronkoch Member
Posts: 1643 From: Spokane, WA Registered: Aug 2003
I thought about it since i know them pretty well, but then i'd feel guilty that i opens a package and they couldnt resell it at full price.. i'll prolly buy one in a month or so, I just didnt wanna fork out the $100 for a reader when there is so many other things I want for the car.
------------------ A Forum that plays together... Stays together...
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11:05 PM
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System Bot
Aug 5th, 2010
Darth Fiero Member
Posts: 5921 From: Waterloo, Indiana Registered: Oct 2002
P0336 is for the 18x crank sensor circuit. Your engine has 2 crank sensors contained in one unit, one part of this sensor reads the 18x reluctor and the other reads the 3x reluctor - both mounted on the balancer. The engine will run with a missing 18x crank sensor signal but with this code being present, I doubt you will be able to do a CASE Learn and I don't think a CASE Learn will fix your problem (that would be DTC: P1336).
The 18x crank sensor signal comes out of pin B on the crank sensor and travels to pin G of the ignition module using a yellow wire. The ignition module in turn sends this 18x crank signal out to the PCM from pin C on a light blue/black wire which goes to PCM pin 9 of the blue connector.
POSSIBLE CAUSES OF THIS CODE:
-Bad/damaged reluctor ring on the balancer -Bad crank sensor -Bad wiring or connection at the crank sensor, ignition module, ignition module harness connector, or PCM -Bad ignition module -Bad PCM -Arcing plug wire near the wiring for any of the above
First thing I would do is check your wiring and the connectors. Check for backed out or damaged terminals in the sensor, module, PCM, and the wiring terminals in the connectors. Make sure there is no water or corrosion build up in any of these connectors.
Let us know what you find.
-ryan
------------------ 7+ years on this same swap -- NO engine or transmission failures... Custom GM OBD1 & OBD2 Tuning | Engine Conversions & more | www.gmtuners.com
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12:56 AM
jsketcham Member
Posts: 434 From: Meadville, Pa, USA Registered: Jan 2009
Good Info, I'm going to trace those routes this morning.. Darth, you mean if a spark plug wire is arc'n it could cause this also... ? Hmm. I'm curious now because on the engine closest to the trans end and on the manifold side with the O2 sensor I have a plug wire with a straight end... it sits right against the O2 sensor. now I'm thinking it may be a culprit... Although they are new 8mm wires from MSD street fire I suppose they could be arc'n through. Boy that would make my millennium to find out that is the problem.
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07:53 AM
jsketcham Member
Posts: 434 From: Meadville, Pa, USA Registered: Jan 2009
P0336 is for the 18x crank sensor circuit. Your engine has 2 crank sensors contained in one unit, one part of this sensor reads the 18x reluctor and the other reads the 3x reluctor - both mounted on the balancer. The engine will run with a missing 18x crank sensor signal but with this code being present, I doubt you will be able to do a CASE Learn and I don't think a CASE Learn will fix your problem (that would be DTC: P1336).
The 18x crank sensor signal comes out of pin B on the crank sensor and travels to pin G of the ignition module using a yellow wire. The ignition module in turn sends this 18x crank signal out to the PCM from pin C on a light blue/black wire which goes to PCM pin 9 of the blue connector.
POSSIBLE CAUSES OF THIS CODE:
-Bad/damaged reluctor ring on the balancer -Bad crank sensor -Bad wiring or connection at the crank sensor, ignition module, ignition module harness connector, or PCM -Bad ignition module -Bad PCM -Arcing plug wire near the wiring for any of the above
First thing I would do is check your wiring and the connectors. Check for backed out or damaged terminals in the sensor, module, PCM, and the wiring terminals in the connectors. Make sure there is no water or corrosion build up in any of these connectors.
Let us know what you find.
-ryan
Ok, first thing I did was to pull the plug on the crank sensor.. ran a jumper wire from pin b to pin G of the ICM and checked for continuity... checked ok, so i checked from there to ground to see if there was a short and no short was found. I then pulled the caps off the PCM and found pin 9 on the Blue connector, ran a jumper from it to the Pin C of the ICM and found it was an open circuit. I then pulled the wire at pin 9 PCM and found it had a cold solder joint and had came apart. I repaired the connection and TADA! the code went away.. Thinking I had it licked i then proceeded to install MSD Coil Packs only to find 1 of them had a bad internal coil... Cyl number 5 had 0 spark.. i swapped the bad coil pack with one of the old ones and i'm back up and running without codes...
Ryan I can't give you a plus because I already did, but for those reading, I would recommend Ryan ( Synister Performance ) any day for programming of PCMs. and for the other people who replied to me need, thank you all so much for your time and ideas.. I hate having a ich I cannot scratch... knowing the code was there was driving me crazy.. THANK YOU ALL!
Originally posted by jsketcham: I thought about it since i know them pretty well, but then i'd feel guilty that i opens a package and they couldnt resell it at full price.. i'll prolly buy one in a month or so, I just didnt wanna fork out the $100 for a reader when there is so many other things I want for the car.
I wouldn't feel bad. They'll just ship it back and get it repacked and sell it at full price. Or still sell it for ridiculous profit at a discounted price anyway. It really doesn't matter. Hell, GameStop opens games themselves, and then sells them as new.
