Many moons ago, I bought a Fiero with a semi-finished V8 conversion kit. The tired 350 engine and TH125 trans are toast now and the car sat for several years. This fall and winter I'm serious about swapping in a new motor and auto transmission (probably a 4T65E HD). I have several questions.

1. I can get a stroker 383 engine for only a little more than a 350. The main difference is the 383 is externally balanced, so it needs to use a flex plate and harmonic balancer from a 400 engine. I found this on the V8 Archie's site: "note: on the 400 c.i. engine, our flywheel & balancer will need to be balanced with your crank." I didn't think the V8 swap kit came with a balancer and flexplate. Did he mean "your" instead of "our"? For those that have done a 383 stroker, what did you do to make it work?

2. I currently have an engine that is from the mid 80's with a dipstick on the passenger side (back side on a Fiero). If I use an older style engine with the dipstick on the driver side (front on a Fiero), can you still check oil easily?

3. Different engines for different cars had different shaped oil pans. Is there any particular oil pan that fits better than the rest or do they all mostly fit?

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1985 SE auto with a 350 Chevy V8 engine (Batmobile)
lowered, suspension mods, Grand Am brakes and wheels,
Trans Am hood louvers, side air scoop, DGP front spoiler,
Mustang hood scoop on deck lid, Dodge Shadow rear spoiler
front mounted battery, custom gauges, stereo mods, etc.

[This message has been edited by batboy (edited 08-05-2010).]

I did some searching in the archives and came up with this info about the use of flexplate and balancer. Probably easier to stay with a stock cube 350.

quote I think the biggest issue will be balancing the motor. With archie’s kit you have you use his flywheel and harmonic balancer pulley. Since that motor is externally balanced, you’re going to need to balance archie's flywheel and HBP to the 383 crank.

quote The 383 is a 350 with a 400 crank and rods installed. This requires the use of the 400 balancer and flexplate/flywheel. You can have the entire rotating assembly balanced with the Archie balancer/pulley and flywheel (assuming you are using an Archie kit) and you're all set. The problem with that is the motor has to be torn down and it is a bit pricey to have the balancing done.

quote If you do a 383 you need to be sure to get an internally balanced crank. I used a SCAT forged crank with SCAT forged rods in my combo. It’s all internally balanced. The 400 balancer will not fit. You have to use Archie’s harmonic balancer to have any chance of clearing the frame rail.

You can't fit the "normal" SBC harmonic balancer with a V8 and 4T65e tranny, it is just too wide. The one Archie supplies is very thin and light and can't really make up for any unbalance in the engine.

The forward dipstick, as installed in the Fiero, is not a big deal to access.

Rick

Send a PM to ClayTonto ... He has a 383 installed with an Archie kit in his widebody. I believe he did the V8 conversion himself or with help, but I'm not 100% on that one

Just my thoughts:

To use the 4t65eHD, you will need a trans contoller. I believe that te 383 is a torque monster - not really a good fit for the Fiero / FWD drive train but it has been done. I have a fresh well built 383 that I was going to use in a 47 Chevy truck - was thinking about stuffing it in my V8 fiero but I am now planning on a healthy 327 or even a 302 if I can find one. I am thinking 350 to 400 HP in a higher reving motor and add a shot of No2 if needed on the top end. I could be wrong though.

The 383 may be a blast in the Fiero. I have a 300 HP 350 w/ a 4 spd in mine now and it feels like it runs out of gears too quickly. A 5 spd or 6 spd may cure that. I would consider an auto but I think I need another adapter plate? I believe that the majority of SBC stock pans are all the same. You could pretty much use any configuration of SBC pan in the Fiero other than a deep sump - it may hang down lower than the cradle and be a target for road hazards - high man holes, etc. Good luck.

Pat

I agree with Katatak. I had a 383 stroker in my 69 Chevelle, and it was a torque monster. I doubt any transmission that will fit in the Fiero will hold up long. Especially if you drive like me.

quote Originally posted by Kilofox13: I agree with Katatak. I had a 383 stroker in my 69 Chevelle, and it was a torque monster. I doubt any transmission that will fit in the Fiero will hold up long. Especially if you drive like me.

With some money, you can build the 4t65eHD to take a lot of HP. I think in stock form they are pretty stout - Axles however are a different stry depending on what a guy uses for his axles. As with everything, the condition of the parts that are being used is a big driver on reliability. Others will argue that the 4 spd and the getrag 5 spd will hold up too. It all depends on how you drive it, what you are building it for, etc. My thought is that when you apply all that torque during a launch is where the damage will be done. Most the "hot rodding" I do is on a roll or through the twisties. - I think I want the RPM's? We will see how it works out.

Edit to add: I suppose with the right amount of dollars and parts, you could build a 383 stroker to run up in the RPM's - I believe that the 383 I have will stop building power - or at least drops off at 6500. I have never built a "screamer" SBC so I'm not sure what it would take to buld a 327 or 302 to make power up to 8K - I'm thinking "budget" versus "what ever it takes".

[This message has been edited by katatak (edited 08-05-2010).]

quote Originally posted by batboy: Many moons ago, I bought a Fiero with a semi-finished V8 conversion kit. The tired 350 engine and TH125 trans are toast now and the car sat for several years. This fall and winter I'm serious about swapping in a new motor and auto transmission (probably a 4T65E HD). I have several questions. 1. I can get a stroker 383 engine for only a little more than a 350. The main difference is the 383 is externally balanced, so it needs to use a flex plate and harmonic balancer from a 400 engine. I found this on the V8 Archie's site: "note: on the 400 c.i. engine, our flywheel & balancer will need to be balanced with your crank." I didn't think the V8 swap kit came with a balancer and flexplate. Did he mean "your" instead of "our"? For those that have done a 383 stroker, what did you do to make it work? 2. I currently have an engine that is from the mid 80's with a dipstick on the passenger side (back side on a Fiero). If I use an older style engine with the dipstick on the driver side (front on a Fiero), can you still check oil easily? 3. Different engines for different cars had different shaped oil pans. Is there any particular oil pan that fits better than the rest or do they all mostly fit?

You'll have to have his flywheel/flexplate and balancer balanced to the 383 crank. The crank used in the 383 originated in the sbc 400 and had a specifically balanced flywheel and harmonic balancer as opposed to the 1986 and up engine's "flexplate only" external balance "neutral balancer". If you take the flexplate from the engine already in the car which has the proper dimensions it should be possible to balance it according to the needs of the 383. I'm not sure about the balancer, my engine went in a camaro and I recall the balancer being of pretty good size compared to the 350. I don't believe it will be a problem to address by the machine shop. Otherwise the engine should setup in the car the same way the current engine does once the balance is addressed.

I found a nice 355 short block with 4 bolt mains to use instead.

I will have the 4T65E HD trans beefed up. Yes, I know it requires a controller.

One more question. I can use an aftermarket higher stall converter, right? They are usually smaller diameter and a bit lighter. I have no idea what's currently in this thing. Probably, just whatever was originally behind the motor (mid 80's truck).

If you intend to use it as a daily driver you will probably want to stick with a stock stall or lower than stock stall converter as higher torque motors will automatically bump the stall up above what the weaker motor attached to it generated. It sounds like a good idea for performance but in this scenario I doubt you will need it. I would keep the stall in the stock range considering the power gain from the engine and choose an appropriately geared tranny. High stall can translate into low mpg, high trans temps and low trans life if not matched properly.

The 383's were not an oem engine size, so they are either built or purchased as a crate engine.

They can be purchased as a crate engine (long or short block) in both the older style 2 piece rear main seal or the newer 1 piece rear main seal... which will also get you a roller camshaft for less $$$ than retrofitting the older block.

If you decide to build one, you can get internally balanced 383 crankshafts... but they cost more. However, going this route allows you to use the standard SBC kit flexplate/balancers. You can also go with an even longer stroker crank and get close to 400 cid from a 350 block.... or build a 400 and stroke it.

Most oil pans will work, but you need to make sure the counter weights on the stroker crank will clear the oil pan flange.


High lowend torque and the numerically low gearing in the 4T65 would be a very good match for a fiero, but you will need to upgrade the 4T65 some for the higher toque.

[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 08-05-2010).]

quote Originally posted by fieroguru: They can be purchased as a crate engine (long or short block) in both the older style 2 piece rear main seal or the newer 1 piece rear main seal... which will also get you a roller camshaft for less $$$ than retrofitting the older block.

GM changed to the one-piece rear main in 1986, but did not start casting the blocks for roller cams until 1987. Trucks still had flat lifters in 1987, so both were available. The point is, just because the block has a one-piece rear main, don't mean it's a roller. In fact, I have a 1986 block sitting in my basement that is a one-piece rear main, but not a roller cam block. Additionally, the one-piece rear main small blocks had an externally balanced flexplate which was different than the 400 flexplate.

As for the stall RPM of the converter, that will depend a lot on what cam I use. I was just wondering if it was possible to swap in a different converter.

quote Originally posted by batboy: GM changed to the one-piece rear main in 1986, but did not start casting the blocks for roller cams until 1987. Trucks still had flat lifters in 1987, so both were available. The point is, just because the block has a one-piece rear main, don't mean it's a roller. In fact, I have a 1986 block sitting in my basement that is a one-piece rear main, but not a roller cam block. Additionally, the one-piece rear main small blocks had an externally balanced flexplate which was different than the 400 flexplate.

Yes, there are a few versions that never got the roller cam. Both styles of currently available SBC kits have flywheels/flexplates for the internally balanced 2 piece rear main seals and the 86+ 1 piece rear main seals... but an externally balanced 383/400 would need some additional modification of those parts for the proper balance.

Yep, that's why I decided to go with a 355 (350 +0.030" over) instead.

[This message has been edited by batboy (edited 08-05-2010).]

A little late to reply if you have chnaged your mind, but others read these posts also.

I built a 383 (actually with the over bore, a 388) for my 87 GT. I used Archies parts and merely had the crank internally balance by a local shop that does a lot of them. This allows the thin balancer Archie supplies to be used. I have the Getrag 5 speed and have no intention of racing the car as I can imagine what the transaxle would look like after it grenades.

Yeah, there are ways to do this if you are building a motor from scratch. Either get an internally balanced stroker rotating assembly or have the conversion kit flexplate and balancer balanced with the externally balanced rotating assembly. However, I was looking at a pre-assembled crate 383, so I didn't want to tear it down to have it rebalanced. I decided to spend a little less on a 355 short block and then spend a bit more and throw some AFR 195 Eliminator aluminum heads on it. I already have a retro-fit Comp Cams XE270HR roller cam/lifters kit. This combo should make 420 HP at the crank according to Desktop Dyno. One of my hot rodding magazines did a similar build as this and also came up with 420 HP.

quote Originally posted by batboy: Yeah, there are ways to do this if you are building a motor from scratch. Either get an internally balanced stroker rotating assembly or have the conversion kit flexplate and balancer balanced with the externally balanced rotating assembly. However, I was looking at a pre-assembled crate 383, so I didn't want to tear it down to have it rebalanced. I decided to spend a little less on a 355 short block and then spend a bit more and throw some AFR 195 Eliminator aluminum heads on it. I already have a retro-fit Comp Cams XE270HR roller cam/lifters kit. This combo should make 420 HP at the crank according to Desktop Dyno. One of my hot rodding magazines did a similar build as this and also came up with 420 HP.

Just for knowledge, you wouldn't need to tear the crate engine down for a rebalance, you would only need to submit the balancer and flywheel to be used on the engine for balance matching to the units already on the engine.

quote Originally posted by Joseph Upson: Just for knowledge, you wouldn't need to tear the crate engine down for a rebalance, you would only need to submit the balancer and flywheel to be used on the engine for balance matching to the units already on the engine.

But that would be the problem. You couldn't get the Archie balancer (that fits in the swap) to have enough balance weight as the one that comes with the engine.

quote Originally posted by couldahadaV8: But that would be the problem. You couldn't get the Archie balancer (that fits in the swap) to have enough balance weight as the one that comes with the engine.

It's doable using assessory weight like the individual wts offered for sbc engines for use with neutrally balanced flexplates. The weight has the flange bolt pattern drilled into it. I believe Archie's balancer has bolt holes in it. I don't see it being anymore difficult than adding mallory metal to a crank. An additional pulley trimmed as needed and bolted to the front of the balancer to attach the additional weight to should be a pretty straightforward process for a machinist, if it means that much to someone wanting to do this.

OK, I'll try one more time to explain what I think the issue is. Archie's pully is very narrow. With it mounted on my SBC I have .010" clearance with the engine. Yes, I pushed it as close to the engine as possible. With the engine mated to a 4T65E-HD tranny, using Archies kit, the front face of the pulley interferes with the Fiero frame rail. I had to cut part of the frame rail out to give enough running clearance for the pulley. I left about a .6" clearance so I could change the belt without pulling the engine. I don't see where you have the room to add a balancing plate/weight. I don't doubt it can be done from a machining point of view, it's the clearance in the car that is the problem.

If anyone has done this then please show some pictures of it.

Rick

[This message has been edited by couldahadaV8 (edited 08-06-2010).]

The machine shop I talked to wanted the rotating assembly out of the engine in order to balance it. I suppose you could get it close just balancing the flexplate and balancer, maybe.

As for adding weight, that can be done by drilling out a hole and adding a heavy metal. Again, I don't want to go to that expense and hassle. I want to keep it simple.