After a little searching and troubleshooting i got WinALDL to work on my Windows 7 powered NetBook via USB to Serial Cable! Hooray! Works SWEET!

However i dont really know what data I need to solve my stumbling engine problem! Its pretty bad but all the sensors I was told to check seem fine through WinALDL; MAP, TPS and such.

What should I look at to figure things out?

I assume if i have stuck/leaky injectors (i smell a boat load of raw fuel from exhaust and i have to FLOOR It to start it most times) then i wont be able to diagnose that via WinALDL?!?!

Thanks!

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I think the BLM data stream is long term fuel trim and the INT is short term fuel trim. IIRC the BLM should be between 124 and 132. Somebody please correct me if i'm wrong. I think the lower the number the richer you are running.

I just looked up some of my old logs. My BLM counts were around 125 when I had bad injectors. Now the are closer to 135 with new ones.

Cliff has a program to raw data easier to read... see general section and search winaldl

also see cave, scan tool help. BLM and Integrator is cover there...

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[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 09-26-2010).]

The program he is referring to is ALDLView. does make looking at the data easier. There is a link to download on my cable post.
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum4/HTML/041052.html

I'd suggest looking at the O2 to see how even the switching is. Are the voltage levels top and bottom in spec? (warm engine and closed loop needed) (staying a high or low average more often.) Also look at the Rich/Lean counter. It should be a nice smooth saw tooth wave form in Aldlview. Each time the O2 switches it increments the counter and then resets making the saw tooth wave. The more ragged the more O2 misses are occurring.

Fuel injector issues are hard to check with the limited data available from our ecms. Doing a leak down test might tell you more or even better yet an injector balance test which take some time and a pulse box to preform.

Comparing your BPW values to another engine running well might also be helpful.

There is also a proceedure for flashing the SES light by jumping the ALDL pins which is suppose to flash the light different speeds depending on rich or lean. Since you can smell fuel that is probably useless and does not tell you more than you already know.

quote Originally posted by nutherproject68: I think the BLM data stream is long term fuel trim and the INT is short term fuel trim. IIRC the BLM should be between 124 and 132. Somebody please correct me if i'm wrong. I think the lower the number the richer you are running.

I, too, would look first at the INT (short term fuel trim) and BLM (long term fuel trim) tables using WinALDL. 128 is the nominal center value. A value greater than 128 means that the ECM thinks the engine is running lean and is adding extra fuel. A value less than 128 means that the ECM thinks the engine is running rich and is reducing fuel delivery below normal. I think the allowable range of BLMs in the V6 ECM is 120 to 150.

A leaking cold-start injector can cause a too-rich condition.

A cracked or leaking exhaust manifold or crossover pipe (upstream of the O₂ sensor is another thing that can fool the ECM by introducing air (i.e. extra oxygen) into the exhaust gases, which makes the ECM think that the mixture is too lean and thus causes it to add more fuel.

WinALDL can help in many ways even if it won't show certain mechanical failures. Look for stuff way out of whack like Coolant Temp at -40* indicating it's either broken or disconnected.

Once the car is in closed loop you can check the INT (short term fuel trim) and BLM (long term fuel trim). Look for 128 on both. An INT of less than 128 is pulling fuel out to correct a rich condition. An INT above 128 is adding fuel to correct a lean condition. The INT happens quick and the BLM will slowly adjust up or down to match the INT. A stuck port fuel injector (not the cold start injector) would manifest itself as a low INT but with glowing manifolds as the engine is really lean on all but one cylinder. That one rich cylinder spark plug should be black with soot. If not black then a difference in color from the rest.

If your problem was the cold start injector stuck open then you would have a low INT and BLM (over time) but your manifolds would not glow since all cylinders are getting enough fuel. Since fuel is coming through the cold start injector and not so much the port injectors then the ECM will have to pull fuel which makes the INT and, over time, the BLM show well below 128.

EDIT: I'm the slowest typist (and thinker, lol)

[This message has been edited by Hudini (edited 09-26-2010).]

Wow thats some great info guys!! Im going to check into all of that... I was honestly wondering about the cold start valve because i have no manifold glow, but will double check tonight... I know shes getting a ton of fuel nasty raw stankiness!

I will also give Cliff's program a shot too! Sounds aweseome!

Post your data log and one of these guys will help you out.

I will for sure... This thing is DUMPING fuel like crazy... Its INIT is in the 140s at idle... I am re-running a test right now to get better data over a longer period... The CLOSED LOOP flag is checked though right off the bat at 82* coolant temp... Is that correct? Ill wait till she warms up to make sure that flag changes.

I'm having a hard time with the google docs. Can't get it to line up with the ALDLView. I think I saw an INT of 140 and a BLM of 122 which is not bad. It means the BLM is low (lean) and the INT is trying to bring the BLM back up to 128 by adding fuel.

You need to check fuel pressure now to see what is happening with the mechanical side.

EDIT: Are you having the problem when the engine is cold?

[This message has been edited by Hudini (edited 09-27-2010).]

Yes. Its HORRIBLE when the engine is cold... for some reason the closed loop flag is ALWAYS on. That can't be right??

If you pm me your adress I can email you the file... google was only thing I could think of to upload too. Not sure where else to host it...

It ran decent again on the way to work this morning logging aldl with the emc in aldl mode (10k resistor) no real stumbling! However that was after I got it started... it stalled 3x when I first started it. I had to "clear it out" before it ran better.

I don't know why its adding so much fuel though. It already reaks of fuel... a friend mentioned possible manifold/vac line leaks could cause o2 to read wrong.

Let me know what you need my laptop is at work and I can send any data u need...

Just click on "email" to the top and right of this post. It will show my correct email address. See if I can point to it ^

Did some logging today and sent the files to Hudini... Not sure why the car is stuck in Closed Loop unless its that resistor.... I took it out and the car DOES still log data so im not sure what the point of putting the car in ALDL mode is?!?! Anyone?

Yes it sure is running lean at idle.
One tip, when you take a log unless you are REALLY into tuning only log the Sensor data and maybe errors.
Most of the time I only log Sensor data even while tuning.
Check the fuel pressure for sure.

[This message has been edited by Dodgerunner (edited 09-27-2010).]

You know, a misfire reads as lean even if its from being too rich or having ignition problems.

The oxygen sensor reads only oxygen, so if you don't burn on a stroke, the O2 reads all that O2 that didn't get burned.

Have you done a simple ignition tune-up (plugs/wires) recently?

The ecu thinks is lean but your nasal passages and retnas will tell you different if you stand behind her... OMG. Smells like year old raw gas!! But its 4 tanks of fresh and 2 bottles sea foam, one of b12 through it.

Have you checked your grounds lately? Looking at the ALDL log it shows your voltage varying up and down in small increments around 14 volts. Now your rpm is all over the place from 675 to 1275. There is a parameter in the code that varies the fuel injector pulse width with battery voltage at the fuel pump since the pump will output different flow with different voltage. A bad or insufficient ground could cause the ECM to sense higher or lower voltage which means the fuel being fed to the engine will vary, which leads to the rpm going up and down.

Then at about 450 counts into your log the battery voltage momentarily drops to 12v, recovers to about 13.5v, then shortly after drops to 0, jumps back to 12v, then drops off to 0 again where the log ends. I'm assuming the car died when the voltage hit 0, just wondering which happened first.

I ohmed the engine at various points to ground. A dead short every time. I can add some too. The drop in volts is me manually turning the fan on using the AC. It needs a coolant fan switch. Wont turn fan on by itself.

Ok, I see. Now I'd suggest you get a gauge on the fuel pressure and see if it holds when you turn the key off. Key ON pressure should be ~43psi and hold with the key OFF for several minutes before slowly falling off.

Your temperature is way too low. I am guessing that you have a bad thermostat that is stuck open resulting in your car running way to cool. This would fool the ECM into thinking that your car is not warmed up and it will stay in open loop running rich to heat up the car. My car did the same thing. After I changed the thermostat, I did not notice any more power, but my MPG went from 18 to 24.

Its not the thermostat, It gets warm. The posted LOG was done at cold... I have data logs of temp being ok, plus

After replacing the ECM with my brother in laws ECM it ran waaay better when it was cold. For some reason my ECM was stuck in Closed Loop... Now it runs as it should in open loop. It STILL stumbles though. I need to figure that out... I am going to check some driving logs, it drives ok then idles ok for a couple seconds then starts stumbling.