Ok, I have been wanting to do an engine swap into 1 of my fieros; say a metric chevy 305. But then I got to thinking of all the work and extra money that would go into a project like that. Being only 19, that seemed like a dead end. I have already rebuilt a duke in one of my fieros, so...
I want to get feedback on the potential of modifying a stock 2.8 to get a max output of say... 200 hp, is that possible? I also figured I could swap in a 3.1 V6 from a Camaro since its a "bigger displacement" 2.8. I have no idea on maximum hp attainable mechanically, Or how much hp I could free up by getting my PROM reprogramed.
i think you would be better off doing the 3.4 swap from a camaro/firebird, its pretty much a direct bolt in. i think all you have to do is drill starter holes on the opposite side of the block. its 160hp stock
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04:45 AM
AL87 Member
Posts: 2578 From: Bradenton, Florida, United States Registered: Mar 2010
You just reminded me. aside from the 3.1 there is also the 3.4 single cam OHV or the DOHC.
I want to steer clear from the ones that don't sound like a "stock" 2.8. like the 3800 SC or not or the 4.9. too many problems with these two and service on the DOHC 3.4 is murder to a shade-tree like me.
Perhaps a 4.3L Vortec?
I still need to be told if the stock 2.8 is good for modifying or not...
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05:26 AM
Oreif Member
Posts: 16460 From: Schaumburg, IL Registered: Jan 2000
The 3.4L being discussed is the 3.4L OHV which is a nearly direct replacement for the 2.8L. In fact since it uses the same heads, once the 3.4L is installed, it can look like a stock 2.8L from the outside.
The 2.8L can be built up to have around 200-210hp normally aspirated. The 3.1L can get around 220hp normally aspirated. The 3.4L can get around 230hp normally aspirated.
These build ups to get the above power levels is very streetable. Basically some head work, an increase in compression, and a good flowing intake/exhaust is what is required.
Adding a turbo can get you closer to 300hp.
The 60* V-6's are strong enough to build up to the above power levels.
Modifying one of the above will run roughly $2000 (parts and such) Dollars per horsepower, many prefer to just swap a different engine (3800, 4.9L, 3800SC, 3.4DOHC, 350-V8, etc.)
------------------ Happiness isn't around the corner... Happiness IS the corner. ZZ4 Powered !!
[This message has been edited by Oreif (edited 09-27-2010).]
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06:12 AM
AL87 Member
Posts: 2578 From: Bradenton, Florida, United States Registered: Mar 2010
What I plan on doing to my 2.8 parts wise, should be something like this.
Comp Cams 260H camshaft. Stainless Steel Valves (5 angle grind?). Roller Rockers 1.6 to 1.75 (if I 1.75 even exists). Upgrade the piston Shape and type (Flat hyperutectics). Necessary higher quality parts in the valvetrain/bottom end, etc... Port and polish. heads & plenum Bored Throttlebody. Shorty headers. obviously a free flow intake and exaust (every riceburners' favorite first mod, LOL) at least 15lb injectors. Ignition upgrades Coil wires & racing plugs PROM re-programming Maybe an emissions equipment delete.
The work done to the engine may be this.
Surfacing of all... surfaces. Boring out the block to get at least 3 liters. Maybe a stroker kit too. Crank balancing (includes the balanced piston assemblies)
Anything else I missed?
I know the stock TH125 can only hold about 200 hp, so that is what I am aiming for. I am going to get the tranny rebuilt for heavier duty if possible, or just swich to a 4T60.
ugh, if I knew more about swapping out stock Fiero stuff for other stock GM stuff. I don't know, I wanna do a cool swap like other Fiero owners but there is something in my mind that keeps telling me nothing is gonna work like it was stock, and that will be the problem, once I put everything together and I sit in the driver's seat to turn the key, will it start? and will it run right? will everything on the gauges read as its supposed to?
If you are going through all this trouble and expense just start with a 3.4L OHV engine. It's stronger and has better oiling, plus it's already bored and stroked over the 2.8L.
And you will need bigger than 15 lbs/hr injectors as those are stock for the 2.8L. The 3.4L came with 17 lbs/hr stock.
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07:17 AM
Oreif Member
Posts: 16460 From: Schaumburg, IL Registered: Jan 2000
What I plan on doing to my 2.8 parts wise, should be something like this.
Comp Cams 260H camshaft. Stainless Steel Valves (5 angle grind?). Roller Rockers 1.6 to 1.75 (if I 1.75 even exists). Upgrade the piston Shape and type (Flat hyperutectics). Necessary higher quality parts in the valvetrain/bottom end, etc... Port and polish. heads & plenum Bored Throttlebody. Shorty headers. obviously a free flow intake and exaust (every riceburners' favorite first mod, LOL) at least 15lb injectors. Ignition upgrades Coil wires & racing plugs PROM re-programming Maybe an emissions equipment delete.
The work done to the engine may be this.
Surfacing of all... surfaces. Boring out the block to get at least 3 liters. Maybe a stroker kit too. Crank balancing (includes the balanced piston assemblies)
Anything else I missed?
I know the stock TH125 can only hold about 200 hp, so that is what I am aiming for. I am going to get the tranny rebuilt for heavier duty if possible, or just swich to a 4T60.
ugh, if I knew more about swapping out stock Fiero stuff for other stock GM stuff. I don't know, I wanna do a cool swap like other Fiero owners but there is something in my mind that keeps telling me nothing is gonna work like it was stock, and that will be the problem, once I put everything together and I sit in the driver's seat to turn the key, will it start? and will it run right? will everything on the gauges read as its supposed to?
The intake even ported is not that good for flow. A Trueleo intake will give you all the flow you need. ( www.trueleo.com ) The largest rocker arm ratio is 1.6, But it is better to increase lift with the cam instead of with the rocker arms because the timing/degrees of the cam are better matched. If you bore out the 2.8L and use a 3.1L crank/pistons you can get up to a 3.2L engine. A 3.1L is a 2.8L with a different crank and pistons. Some folks have bored out the 2.8L to the same size as a 3.4L, But then the walls will be a little thin and an increase in compression could cause problems. If you are going to change out the pistons, a 10:1 compression ratio will give you roughly a 10-12hp increase.
Also I should note that the 3.1L/3.4L blocks do have better oil galleys than the 2.8L.
The 3.4L I built that had 230hp was built using: Comp Cams 1.52 roller tipped rockers and heavy duty pushrods Crane H272 cam Coyles dual roller timing chain SS valves with 5-angle valve job heads ported, polished, and decked .010 (decking increases compression to around 9.4:1) Trueleo intake 62mm throttle body Accel 19# injectors Holley adjustable fuel pressure regulator Fiero Store Sprint exhaust manifolds Ported cross-over pipe Borla exhaust
Dyno tuning produced 232hp at the crank and 205 rwhp thru the 5-spd getrag. Car ran 13.8 in the 1/4 mile and 0-60 is around 5.4 seconds.
As for the trans, The TH125 will work fine with a heavy-duty rebuild. The 4T60 will be better because the gearing is a little better and the MPG will be higher.
Hope this helps
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07:30 AM
AL87 Member
Posts: 2578 From: Bradenton, Florida, United States Registered: Mar 2010
If you are going through all this trouble and expense just start with a 3.4L OHV engine. It's stronger and has better oiling, plus it's already bored and stroked over the 2.8L.
And you will need bigger than 15 lbs/hr injectors as those are stock for the 2.8L. The 3.4L came with 17 lbs/hr stock.
True, hahaha. and there is much better support from aftermarket parts manufacturers. But, I wouldn't want to let my good 2.8 just sit around in the corner of my garage collecting dust.
I am looking for people to either say I can get my 2.8 to 200 hp, or I cannot. if its possible I'm gonna do it, if not, I'm gonna swap.
personally I think 200 guaranteed hp is out of reach without alot of work. seeing that its about as good as I'll get out of a 2.8. its already "hi-output" from factory with a chevy camaro cam put in. most GM 2.8s listed seem to get about 120 hp, the fiero gets 140, so with an even hotter cam, I expect 160 with no other mods. even if it doesn't get to 200hp, it'll be close, and it'll rev somethin' sexy with some of the stuff I'm planning on putting in it.
=D
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07:34 AM
AL87 Member
Posts: 2578 From: Bradenton, Florida, United States Registered: Mar 2010
I bet all that stuff messes with the air/fuel ratio going into and out of the engine. so there has to be reprogramming.
How about programming? Please tell me more about it.
Unfortunately I grew up old school around a circle track, where everything is mechanical and I only have a simple understanding of what new vehicles' computers do.
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07:44 AM
Oreif Member
Posts: 16460 From: Schaumburg, IL Registered: Jan 2000
I bet all that stuff messes with the air/fuel ratio going into and out of the engine. so there has to be reprogramming.
How about programming? Please tell me more about it.
Unfortunately I grew up old school around a circle track, where everything is mechanical and I only have a simple understanding of what new vehicles' computers do.
Yes it does need to be reprogrammed. The adjustable fuel pressure regulator aids in dialing it in. We tuned it on a dyno then burned a new PROM.
If you don't have emission testing and want to go "old school", You can ditch the EFI and get an Edelbrock intake and a Holley 390cfm 4-bbl carb. Tuning is easy and the power is the same, cost is less.
While we are on the subject, I am about to pick up a 2.8 formula. It just so happens that I have an unused nitrous kit as well. How much juice can this puppy take?
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09:28 AM
Pyrthian Member
Posts: 29569 From: Detroit, MI Registered: Jul 2002
the biggest hinderance to the 2.8/3.1/3.4 performance is the stock Fiero intake the Fiero intake basicly puts a 150 HP ceiling on potential. to get near the 200's - a different intake is needed, and to get past 200 - some good head work & porting
I have a stock 2.8 with ported exhaust manifolds, a Trueleo intake, and a FS widebody throttle body. My 2.8 was a transplant into a 4 cyl car. I probably spent well over $1,000 on a low mileage engine (without a rebuild or valve job) before I was done. My 2.8 has been dynoed along with a stock 2.8, a 2.9. a 3.1 and a stock 3.4 and published here
The 3.4 is a better engine and offers a big performance improvement. All of these engines (except mine) use the stock Fiero intake manifold which is very restrictive at higher RPM. With the Trueleo intake and widebody thottle body, my engine really revs and I often hit the rev limiter. I love it....but the Trueleo is very expensive (I bought mine used).
In thinking about doing an upgrade, a great solution is to use the 3400 (next gen past 3.4), because it is difficult to find a low mileage 3.4 and 30-50K Mi 3400s with ECM and warranty go for abour $500-600 around here. If you buy even a 100K mi 3.4 (that is even hard to find unless you buy a crate engine), you need gaskets, perhaps a valve job, and the injectors cleaned; the $$$$ add up fast. The 3400 requires an ECM tune and a special exhaust, but may cost the same in the end...and you have an even better and lower mileage engine. The intake on the 3400 really flows. We have a 3400 87GT in our club with an engine from a 2004 MonteCarl.
While we are on the subject, I am about to pick up a 2.8 formula. It just so happens that I have an unused nitrous kit as well. How much juice can this puppy take?
The most I would give it is a 75 shpt. The engine just won't hold up to sometihing like a 100 shot.
Of course this is assuming you want to run it for a while and don't want to simply run it 'tll it breaks.
Another issue to think about in souping up the 2.8 is the max compression ratio you want to use.
This has a direct relationship with the final hp output. On mine, I am sticking with the stock ratio. The reason is that this engine will be strictly a street/strip motor and I want to be able to use regular gas. It is getting much harder to find 94 octane around here. Sunoco stations have been bought out by Husky. If you have an engine that will digest 87 Octane you have a more affordable street rod than if you are paying for premium of any type.
My current motor has about 125 psi cold and that isn't great. But it is still pulling up to 132 hp at the wheels with a carb and a stock cam.
What about a 3500? It's not a true bolt-in motor like the 3.4, but it does make 200hp stock with the potential for a lot more. You start off with much better hardware that has the potential to make a lot more power than the 2.8/3.4 will.
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03:14 PM
AL87 Member
Posts: 2578 From: Bradenton, Florida, United States Registered: Mar 2010
the biggest hinderance to the 2.8/3.1/3.4 performance is the stock Fiero intake the Fiero intake basicly puts a 150 HP ceiling on potential. to get near the 200's - a different intake is needed, and to get past 200 - some good head work & porting
The biggest hinderance may be the stock intake, but the maximum potential must be exeeded first before it can be restrictive. I have been taking in alot of info, and the truleo intake only seems to free up about 15hp on a stock 2.8, but the over all dyno numbers I have been seeing recorded are still under the hp listed by pontiac The truleo intake registered about 128 hp (used motor), pontiac registered 140 (new motor). I feel if I get a clean redone engine (as a stock reman) it should read at 140 or so. not including the actual things to pick up horsepower.
upgrading the camshaft is the biggest thing for hp. 20-30 hp freeer flowing heads (port & polish) (stainless steel valves, and higher lift rockers) 5-10 hp headers (to compliment the newer flow) 5-15 hp better intake (also to compliment the newer flow) 15 hp upgraded ignition (stock 40K volts to at least 45K) 5-10 hp PROM reprograming with some higher flow injectors. 15 hp
if I think I am as good at estimating hp as I think I am, that is a 65 hp pickup. (85 max) so that is good I'll get at least 50 more hp if I can do what I want to do with it.
Originally posted by AL87: The biggest hinderance may be the stock intake, but the maximum potential must be exeeded first before it can be restrictive. I have been taking in alot of info, and the truleo intake only seems to free up about 15hp on a stock 2.8, but the over all dyno numbers I have been seeing recorded are still under the hp listed by pontiac The truleo intake registered about 128 hp (used motor), pontiac registered 140 (new motor). I feel if I get a clean redone engine (as a stock reman) it should read at 140 or so. not including the actual things to pick up horsepower.
I think maybe you're confusing the numbers. The numbers GM gives you for engines in cars, is brake hp, not wheel hp. So that 140 on a stock 2.8 in a Fiero, is at the flywheel. The 128 for the Trueleo (wherever you got that at) was probably at the wheels. With a 20% loss of power in drivetrain, that puts it at 160 at the flywheel. And depending on year, I think it was rated between 135 and 145. But that is still at the flywheel. So, if the stock rating you're going on is the 140hp, and on an otherwise stock engine, it made 128hp at the wheels with the trueleo intake, that's a 20hp gain, not 15. That's also nowhere near the limit of increase. With ported/polished heads, ported exhaust/headers, ported/larger TB, and a nice valve job with some larger valves, and maybe a stronger valvetrain, you'd be looking at bigger gains. And probably a lot less fuel economy.
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10:54 PM
Blacktree Member
Posts: 20770 From: Central Florida Registered: Dec 2001
I built up a bored/stroked 2.8 V6 a few years ago. I put in the 3.1 crankshaft and pistons, aluminum flywheel, Edelbrock camshaft, and Comp Cams 1.52:1 rockers. I also had the heads shaved, and did some pocket porting. Plus, I ported the intake and installed the Trueleo headers. I also turned up the fuel pressure a little, to accommodate the mods. I also installed a 7730 ECM, tuned by Sinister Performance.
The end result was 140 HP / 180 TQ at the wheels. That's with a Getrag 5-speed. Quarter-mile times were in the low-to-mid 15's, with my best run coming in at 15.3. After that run, I weighed my car on the race scale, which said approximately 2700 lb.
I was honestly expecting more out of the engine. But I think the relatively mild cam and relatively small injectors were holding it back. And BTW, the Edelbrock cam that I used is similar to the Crane H260. So you may want to look for the Crane H272 instead. And I'd suggest using at least 17 lb/hr injectors. A higher-flowing intake wouldn't hurt, either.
[This message has been edited by Blacktree (edited 09-27-2010).]
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11:01 PM
AL87 Member
Posts: 2578 From: Bradenton, Florida, United States Registered: Mar 2010
I might be confusing them, because I do remember learning the horsepower on my "87 GT was 120 hp a while back, but then I look at articles and see that exact number, but then it shows '85 snd '86 2.8's had 140 hp.
also responding to someone else... the comp cam's 260H is showing an overall lift of .469" as compared to alot of other cams with less than that. However I am on the border with the 260H, if I go any higher I'll definately need an upgraded intake plenum, and a programmed PROM.
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11:50 PM
PFF
System Bot
Sep 28th, 2010
Blacktree Member
Posts: 20770 From: Central Florida Registered: Dec 2001
If I remember correctly, the Crane H260 is 0.427 intake / 0.454 exhaust. And the Edelbrock cam I used was 0.420 intake / 0.443 exhaust. That's not much difference. Actually, they're both considered medium-performance camshafts.
In contrast, the Crane H272 is 0.454 intake / 0.480 exhaust. If you want to get 200 HP out of your 2.8 V6, that's the cam to use.
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12:59 AM
Francis T Member
Posts: 6620 From: spotsylvania va. usa Registered: Oct 2003
You cannot simply look at HP gains; you have to look at overall gains when you look at dyno numbers. The area I filled in with green shows what our intakes will give you, a carb setup should do close to same. All that green area is a substancial gain in performance over a stock intake. BTW: that was on a basically stock 3.4. Add headers and a cam profiled for more RPM.....
The Trueleo intake really wakes up my 2.8 and the added gain in the green shaded area (graph above) makes such a difference. I was going to do an engine swap, but my car runs so strong now, there is no need. I almost hate to drive a stock 2.8 because it dies at higher RPM. My engine is a stock, untouched 100K mile engine with few mods: ported exhaust manifolds, Trueleo intake, and FS widebody throttle body. Jim
As others have mentioned, the stock intake is going to prevent you from reaching your 200hp goal!
I built my 2.8 to the max and I am no where near 200hp. I'm guessing around 165-175...
My build: stroked 3.1 272 cam w/ proper springs roller rockers si valves ported heads & intake (all gasket matched) ported exhaust manifolds cloyes dbl roller hi vol/psi oil pump adjustable FPR w/ stock injectors msd coil, wires, cap & rotor balanced The above are the relevant performance enhancement; but everything was replaced...
Basically everything was replaced... Cost was WELL over $3000, but I cut no corners... Performance it fantastic when compared to the stock 2.8. At the time, I wanted to keep the Fiero looking stock; which it does... However, I am now doing a 3800sc swap...
I have not fully put my 3.1 to the test, as it has under 500 miles on it. But the couple of times I did press the go pedal, it felt strong...
BTW, my 3.1 may be up for sale soon
[This message has been edited by ALJR (edited 09-28-2010).]
Impressive build. For the record, the 2.9 and 3.1 engines referenced above link to dyno results are pretty well built the same as your 3.1. Supposedly the guy who build the 2.9 put $7K into the engine. The 2.9 also has SS valves, shotpeened rods, a worked over crank, and Mustang 24 lb injectors. While these engines offer a big improvement over a stock 2.8, the restrictive intake really limits performance at higher RPMs. If you look at the dyno results contained in the link above, these engines just run out of steam, while mine with the Trueleo intake pulls like crazy until it hits the rev limiter. I will admit my basic 2.8 will not last as long as any of these built engines, but when it goes bust, I will stick in a bigger engine, probably a 3400. Jim
The biggest hinderance may be the stock intake, but the maximum potential must be exeeded first before it can be restrictive. I have been taking in alot of info, and the truleo intake only seems to free up about 15hp on a stock 2.8, but the over all dyno numbers I have been seeing recorded are still under the hp listed by pontiac The truleo intake registered about 128 hp (used motor), pontiac registered 140 (new motor). I feel if I get a clean redone engine (as a stock reman) it should read at 140 or so. not including the actual things to pick up horsepower.
upgrading the camshaft is the biggest thing for hp. 20-30 hp freeer flowing heads (port & polish) (stainless steel valves, and higher lift rockers) 5-10 hp headers (to compliment the newer flow) 5-15 hp better intake (also to compliment the newer flow) 15 hp upgraded ignition (stock 40K volts to at least 45K) 5-10 hp PROM reprograming with some higher flow injectors. 15 hp
if I think I am as good at estimating hp as I think I am, that is a 65 hp pickup. (85 max) so that is good I'll get at least 50 more hp if I can do what I want to do with it.
140 + 65 = 205! right in the ballpark! woot-woot!
I am afraid your calculations are flawed. Porting the heads correctly will give you more hp and tq, but it cannot do it without improved exhaust. Porting is a virtual waste if the engine can't take in enough mix and exhaust enough. It is all overlapping and in some cases redundant.
Sure a carb flowing 350 to 390 cfm can increase 15 hp, but not on an unaltered head. You need all three done to see that hp. increase. So, you need the better flowing intake, the ported heads (with valve increases) and the better exhaust and then you'll see the increase. In my case, on a tired motor, I did all 3, carb intake, ported heads with 1.6 rockers, ported exhaust, and the hp at the wheels went up to 132 from about 107. That is 25 hp at the wheels doing all 3 things in total. Oh yeah, I also put on the power pulley which is supposed to deliver 5 hp. So, you might say if you added up 15 hp for the carb, 10 for the headwork, 6 hp for the ported exhaust, 5 hp for the power pulley, you'd come out at 36 added hp, but it just ain't so.
I got 25 more hp at the wheels. Like I say, it is all related and often somewhat redundant for calculation purposes. You also have to look at the torque range and rpm range increase. The power increases you a counting on with ignition change and chip programing just won't deliver what you expect.
Your cam figure is too ambitious.
You might get an additional 40 hp but that is a maybe, not a definite. To get to 200 hp, you will not get there without some serious block work. You'll need to bump you your compression to at least 9.5, balance your rotating assembly, and you'll need full blown headers which will make everything else work. The mods you are talking about are at best 185 and more likely 175 at the crank, and at best 140 at the wheels.
Arn
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03:44 PM
Sep 29th, 2010
White Spyder Member
Posts: 1047 From: Gluckstadt USA Registered: Sep 2007
As others have mentioned, the stock intake is going to prevent you from reaching your 200hp goal!
I built my 2.8 to the max and I am no where near 200hp. I'm guessing around 165-175...
My build: stroked 3.1 272 cam w/ proper springs roller rockers si valves ported heads & intake (all gasket matched) ported exhaust manifolds cloyes dbl roller hi vol/psi oil pump adjustable FPR w/ stock injectors msd coil, wires, cap & rotor balanced The above are the relevant performance enhancement; but everything was replaced...
Basically everything was replaced... Cost was WELL over $3000, but I cut no corners... Performance it fantastic when compared to the stock 2.8. At the time, I wanted to keep the Fiero looking stock; which it does... However, I am now doing a 3800sc swap...
I have not fully put my 3.1 to the test, as it has under 500 miles on it. But the couple of times I did press the go pedal, it felt strong...
BTW, my 3.1 may be up for sale soon
This is what I did with the Stroker but I also over bored for larger forged performance pistons , a bit of head work got me to a 3.2 and 183hp. I wonder how much more I would get with the the truello.
This is what I did with the Stroker but I also over bored for larger forged performance pistons , a bit of head work got me to a 3.2 and 183hp. I wonder how much more I would get with the the truello.
Ya, I also went 5 or 10 over as well, But I did not go w/ forged pistions... Didn't really see any need, as I was not going to turbocharge or run nitrous... I did bump up the compresion by having the block and heads resurfaced as well as using silvolite hyperutectic <sp? pistons...
The one part of my built that I am glad I did, was to have the rotating assembly professionaly balanced (cost me $550). This motor runs silky smoooooth
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11:56 AM
lou_dias Member
Posts: 5356 From: Warwick, RI Registered: Jun 2000
By the way, the middle and upper plenum that I used are for sale...though I haven't listed it. This car pulled like a 4.9...and I should know, I have a 4.9'd car.
[This message has been edited by lou_dias (edited 09-29-2010).]
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08:38 PM
AL87 Member
Posts: 2578 From: Bradenton, Florida, United States Registered: Mar 2010
I am afraid your calculations are flawed. Porting the heads correctly will give you more hp and tq, but it cannot do it without improved exhaust. Porting is a virtual waste if the engine can't take in enough mix and exhaust enough. It is all overlapping and in some cases redundant.
Your cam figure is too ambitious.
Arn
Well I wouldn't ever just do one thing, its obvious if your gonna do headwork, your gonna have to do work on the intake and exaust as well. My cam figure should be fine at a .469" lift with the 1.6 rockers. and I think I'd have to reprogram the computer at that point anyways. Anyways, who knows how much horsepower I'll get, I'm just speculating for fun right now.
I'm with Bowrapennocks on the 3400 idea. It's a direct-bolt in, probably easier than even the 3.4L. I toyed around with the idea of boring/stroking my 2.8l, putting on a better cam, roller rockers, etc...and then I found the 3400 had just abotu everything in it I was intending on doing to the 2.8l without takign a single bolt out of it. Here's some/most of the benefits, IIRC: 3.4L displacement 1.6 Roller tappets Larger valves Roller lifters Hollow camshaft Forged crankshaft 22.5# injectors Better flowing intake manifold & heads 56mm throttle body Aluminum heads (save a few lbs, and a few more with the much-lighter starter motor) Coated skirt hypereutectic pistions 9.5:1 compression ratio DIS ignition Sequential fuel injection/OBD2 (if you want it) Probably more...
With the exception of using full roller rockers (still an option), the 3400 came with everything I wanted to put in to a 2.8L. It comes in stock form with 170-185HP (mainly depending on the ECM tune). If you really want to hit 200HP with it, you could start with a cam regrind and port matching/polishing, and maybe some better exhaust manifolds. Or you use a 3400 shortblock with 3500 heads/intake and you should already be there. I opted to get a 3400 for under $500 rather than put $2000 into the 2.8L and be lucky to get the same kind of numbers. Don't even have to redrill for the starter!
[This message has been edited by Stubby79 (edited 10-03-2010).]
the biggest hinderance to the 2.8/3.1/3.4 performance is the stock Fiero intake the Fiero intake basicly puts a 150 HP ceiling on potential. to get near the 200's - a different intake is needed, and to get past 200 - some good head work & porting
Unless you put a turbo in there.
Also Guys: The 3400 is NOT as easy or easier than a 3.4L as you have to gut the wiring for the 3400 ECM change. a 3.4 will use the stock wiring harness AS-IS. an adjustablle fuel reguator and you are all done. no ecm tuning even.
Unless this guy is an automotive electrical genius, the 3.4 from a camaro is the easiest and cheapest way to what he wants. even a crate engine from GM is cheaper than the machining on the 2.8 block will cost him.
Plus all the intake stuff only helps in real racing... If all he is doing is red light drag races, the torque added alone will be everything he wants to beat his buddies. the 3.4 is a torque monster compared to the 2.8 ------------------
Sinister performance (site above) can set you up with a starting point for the ECM programming. He also has wiring diagrams on his website and you have to make a wiring harness. While much of the 2.8 stuff can be kept, the 3400 does require a custom exhaust, a custom dogbone, and a low mount alternator unless you want to cut the decklid. The 3400 in our club uses a 7730 ECM and cut the decklid.
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06:57 PM
Oct 4th, 2010
Francis T Member
Posts: 6620 From: spotsylvania va. usa Registered: Oct 2003
Im thinking about this Crower cam for use with my 2.8 ( trueleo intake, headers, 9.5:1 pistons1.6 rockers, crower lifters, etc) should be good for max power in the 5k 6k range, no?
Part Number/Work Order Number 03043 Engine Application 173 V-6 CHEVY Grind Number 278HDP ADVERTISED CAMSHAFT SPECIFICATIONS:
The specifications listed above are based on a rockerarm ratio of 1.50 IN 1.50 EX
RECOMMENDED VALVE SPRING INFORMATION:
Part # 68306 Single X Dual Triple Approximate spring pressure: valve closed: 090/100 LBS. valve open: 250/260 LBS.
-2.0 ATDC -7.0 BTDC
ABDC 34.0 45.0 BBDC
The information below is for degreeing cam only. Correct only at .050" tappet lift. INTAKE Opens: -2.0 ATDC Closes: 34.0 ABDC EXHAUST Opens: 45.0 BBDC Closes: -7.0 BTDC
Unless this guy is an automotive electrical genius, the 3.4 from a camaro is the easiest and cheapest way to what he wants. even a crate engine from GM is cheaper than the machining on the 2.8 block will cost him.
Plus all the intake stuff only helps in real racing... If all he is doing is red light drag races, the torque added alone will be everything he wants to beat his buddies. the 3.4 is a torque monster compared to the 2.8
Lol, he's got the same idea as me. A "sleeper" is what I want, it'll look bone stock, lope a little as a hint, then blow the doors off a 302 fox bodied mustnag all day and night. lol. just someting good I wanna take to the strip if I feel like it.
