Does anyone knows if the 4t60 (non electronic version) and 4t65e share the same axles? I may be getting a 4t65e and would like to know if the 60 and 65e share the same Fiero axles. Reason is I have a set of those already. And I know the E version is ECM controlled. Thanks.
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06:14 PM
PFF
System Bot
Dec 6th, 2010
darkhorizon Member
Posts: 12279 From: Flint Michigan Registered: Jan 2006
the "HD" diff uses a larger spline on the passenger side, which would be an easy 10 minute swap with either the axle tripots, or going back to a normal 65e diff.
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08:28 AM
SMTHGT Member
Posts: 1075 From: Seagoville , Tx. Registered: Mar 2010
the "HD" diff uses a larger spline on the passenger side, which would be an easy 10 minute swap with either the axle tripots, or going back to a normal 65e diff.
Thanks. That is good to know. It will make it easier for me either way.
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01:40 PM
darkhorizon Member
Posts: 12279 From: Flint Michigan Registered: Jan 2006
Does anyone knows if the 4t60 (non electronic version) and 4t65e share the same axles? I may be getting a 4t65e and would like to know if the 60 and 65e share the same Fiero axles. Reason is I have a set of those already. And I know the E version is ECM controlled. Thanks.
quote
Originally posted by darkhorizon:
Yes.
NO!
All 4T65-E's, regardless if they are HD or not, have a roller bearing inside the transmission that the Driver's side inner tripot end rides in. 440T4's, 4T60's, and 4T60-E's do NOT have this bearing, and the CV inner tripod area where it installed into the transmission is machined differently. You should not try using a driver's side CV axle inner tripot that was made for a 440-T4, 4T60, and 4T60-E in a 4T65-E or 4T65-E HD transmission. Look at the picture below to see the difference...
Trying to run the 440-T4, 4T60, and 4T60-E driver's side inner tripot in a 4T65-E or 4T65-E HD transmission will result in the CV tripot end not riding in the bearing (inside the 4T65-E transmission) correctly.
-ryan ------------------ 7+ years on this same swap -- NO engine or transmission failures...
All 4T65-E's, regardless if they are HD or not, have a roller bearing inside the transmission that the Driver's side inner tripot end rides in. 440T4's, 4T60's, and 4T60-E's do NOT have this bearing, and the CV inner tripod area where it installed into the transmission is machined differently. You should not try using a driver's side CV axle inner tripot that was made for a 440-T4, 4T60, and 4T60-E in a 4T65-E or 4T65-E HD transmission. Look at the picture below to see the difference... .. Trying to run the 440-T4, 4T60, and 4T60-E driver's side inner tripot in a 4T65-E or 4T65-E HD transmission will result in the CV tripot end not riding in the bearing (inside the 4T65-E transmission) correctly.
-ryan
So I guess if that tripod is changed to the correct one then lengthwise they will work? Tks
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07:36 AM
darkhorizon Member
Posts: 12279 From: Flint Michigan Registered: Jan 2006
So a TH125 axle is just lucky that it fits into a 65e?
Go back and re-read the OP. The question was:
quote
Does anyone knows if the 4t60 (non electronic version) and 4t65e share the same axles? I may be getting a 4t65e and would like to know if the 60 and 65e share the same Fiero axles. Reason is I have a set of those already. And I know the E version is ECM controlled. Thanks.
To this YOU responded "YES" and you were WRONG.
I said if someone had a driver's side tripot from a 440T4, 4T60, or 4T60E - it would NOT work in a 4T65-E or 4T65-E HD.
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02:03 PM
Darth Fiero Member
Posts: 5921 From: Waterloo, Indiana Registered: Oct 2002
Originally posted by Alex4mula: So I guess if that tripod is changed to the correct one then lengthwise they will work? Tks
It might. If you look at the design of the tripots that insert into the driver's side of the trans, you'll notice the tripot for the 440T4/4T60/4T60E does not install into the transmission as deep as the 4T65E tripot; and the 440T4/4T60/4T60E tripot is also physically longer/deeper than what was used in the 4T65E. So if you currently have a driver's side CV axle made up for a 440T4/4T60/4T60E trans install into a Fiero and you want to use this axle with a 4T65E, you'll need to change the inner tripot end and then retake your measurements to make sure the tripot joint is riding deep enough in the inner tulip end once everything is installed.
-ryan
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02:10 PM
Alex4mula Member
Posts: 7403 From: Canton, MI US Registered: Dec 1999
It might. If you look at the design of the tripots that insert into the driver's side of the trans, you'll notice the tripot for the 440T4/4T60/4T60E does not install into the transmission as deep as the 4T65E tripot; and the 440T4/4T60/4T60E tripot is also physically longer/deeper than what was used in the 4T65E. So if you currently have a driver's side CV axle made up for a 440T4/4T60/4T60E trans install into a Fiero and you want to use this axle with a 4T65E, you'll need to change the inner tripot end and then retake your measurements to make sure the tripot joint is riding deep enough in the inner tulip end once everything is installed.
-ryan
Ok. Thank a lot again
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02:51 PM
PFF
System Bot
Dec 8th, 2010
darkhorizon Member
Posts: 12279 From: Flint Michigan Registered: Jan 2006
Ok, I'm confused now. All this went towards the driver side. So what about the passenger side? Will that also won't work? Reading back it seems bottom line that neither axle side will work unless the ends (towards trany) are changed and then the length may not work too. I just need to know if these axles that I have can help for anything or if I need to start from scratch. Thanks.
[This message has been edited by Alex4mula (edited 12-08-2010).]
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01:04 PM
Darth Fiero Member
Posts: 5921 From: Waterloo, Indiana Registered: Oct 2002
Ok, I'm confused now. All this went towards the driver side. So what about the passenger side? Will that also won't work? Reading back it seems bottom line that neither axle side will work unless the ends (towards trany) are changed and then the length may not work too. I just need to know if these axles that I have can help for anything or if I need to start from scratch. Thanks.
4T65-E HD transmissions used a larger size (diameter and spline) passenger side inner CV tripot vs. everything else. Non-HD 4T65-E, 440T4, 4T60, 4T60-E, Fiero manual transmissions, and I also think the 125-C all used the same size and spline passenger side CV axle inner tripot (the portion that installs into the transmission). LENGTH is what is different. 4T60E/4T65E will have the shortest length passenger side axle, 440T4/4T60 will be a little longer, 125-C will be longer yet, and Fiero manual transmissions will have the longest axles.
Basically, let me put it like this. If you already had a 440T4/4T60 trans in your car, and you are now installing a 4T65-E, you are probably going to need to start over from scratch and make a new set of axles.
[This message has been edited by Darth Fiero (edited 12-08-2010).]
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01:12 PM
Alex4mula Member
Posts: 7403 From: Canton, MI US Registered: Dec 1999
4T65-E HD transmissions used a larger size (diameter and spline) passenger side inner CV tripot vs. everything else. Non-HD 4T65-E, 440T4, 4T60, 4T60-E, Fiero manual transmissions, and I also think the 125-C all used the same size and spline passenger side CV axle inner tripot (the portion that installs into the transmission). LENGTH is what is different. 4T60E/4T65E will have the shortest length passenger side axle, 440T4/4T60 will be a little longer, 125-C will be longer yet, and Fiero manual transmissions will have the longest axles.
Basically, let me put it like this. If you already had a 440T4/4T60 trans in your car, and you are now installing a 4T65-E, you are probably going to need to start over from scratch and make a new set of axles.
Ok. This clarifies it nicely. I have a spare set of axles from the 4t60 that I never installed in my yellow car (went to 5 speed). As I mentioned in another thread I need to buy a transmission for the 3800sc swap I am doing on my new GT. I may get a 4t65e or a 4t65e-hd depending on the price and what I can find locally. That will dictate the rest of the swap (ECM, wiring,e tc.). If these axles were a fit for the 4t65e then I would narrow my search for that trany. Now basically I am open to anything again. Thanks again for tech help