It depends on the user, mega is fine for daily, even better when you get MSII and get some more creature comforts. Or wait until The Ultimate Mega comes out this year I think. Mega can suit your needs if you have the time to spend tuning it. Thats a long process. Thanks, Drew
just wondering which T04 compressor you chose and how you arrived at that choice
------------------ GT just waiting for the conversion
84 Fiero Turbo Vortec 4300 Phantom GT L35 block, Syclone Intake and ECM with Moates adapter 50lb injectors, 3 bar map sens, T04B Turbo
www.cardomain.com/id/vortecfiero Murphy's Constant Matter will be damaged in direct proportion to its value Murphy's Law of Thermodynamics Things get worse under pressure. Arthur C. Clarke "Any significantly advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic"
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07:15 PM
May 23rd, 2006
fieroturbo Member
Posts: 1085 From: Orefield, PA Registered: Jan 2003
It depends on the user, mega is fine for daily, even better when you get MSII and get some more creature comforts. Or wait until The Ultimate Mega comes out this year I think. Mega can suit your needs if you have the time to spend tuning it. Thats a long process. Thanks, Drew
The MS2 looks like the better choice for me. It's everything I need, with nothing I don't, and has lots of potential. CarCraft seemed happy with the tuning methods... just point and click on the fuel map, and it goes where you clicked. Pretty easy. If it takes awhile, so be it. It gets cold, snowy, and boring up here, so I'll have time. And I'm an electronics technician, so I'll have lots of fun doing that part of the project
---
Vortec, as far as the turbo choice, I'm using a .57 compressor. The guy that made my manifold and myself came to the conclusion that this size on a T3/T4 hybrid was the best choice for what I want the car to have; turbo lag, power in the mid-high RPM range, and lower temperature of the compressed air.
Why you ask? Well, take into factor that the Fiero is quite a light car. Factor in that the Ecotec will make it even lighter, and you have to make up for less weight on the drive wheels, which will result in more wheelspin off the start.
People say turbo lag is bad. I say, bring it! It means more traction coming from a standing start, and it's also easier on the drivetrain. Everyone knows low end torque kills our stock trannys. Low end power is overrated and is only good for burnouts. And besides, once you're out of 1st gear, the revs stay above 3K anyway.
Now as far as a cooler intake charge, this is why I didn't go with the smaller T3 compressor. For example, take a T3 compressor vs. a T4 compressor, make them both do 12 psi, and the T3 will make more heat doing it, because it has to work harder to get to that pressure level.
On this setup, air temp prior to cooling needs to be low. The Fiero's engine placement prohibits air-to-air intercooler access to the high pressure airflow at the front of the vehicle. The best we can muster is ducting air from the sides and below the vehicle (which would be a miracle if I could pull that off efficiently).
For experimentation purposes, I want to put an intercooler under one of the decklid vents, duct air from a side inlet (Archie's) and from an undercar inlet (Buick GN guys do this alot). Combined, I feel it could be formiddable. I'll have temp sensors before and after intercooling so I can keep track. I may try a fan under the cooler as well, and see if that helps.
I'd also like to try those CO2 intercoolers on this, just as a test. If it works, I'll rely on that on the strip and dyno.
Thanks for the question Vortec, that was a good one! Very "pick your brain" style, I like it.
---Ok, now I think I'm done editing---
[This message has been edited by fieroturbo (edited 05-23-2006).]
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06:14 AM
1fastcaddy Member
Posts: 618 From: Hays, Kansas Registered: Oct 2004
Was this to me? cause you quoted long time and I never used that.
Well, with daily driving and time to actually tune, it could be like 2 weeks of spare time tuning to get it perfect, 1 week if you want good enough. With everything going on here, its taken about a month and thats just good enough. 1month in my case is about 5 or 6 hours total though. Not too bad. Laters
------------------ 85 black gt-converted to isuzu and duke-SOLD 85 black gt with fastback conversion-35k original miles!!! 85/86 2m4-parts car to swap isuzu into gt
well, i guess it really depends on the person, but if you are a quick learner, you pick up on things quick and the process is smooth. Anyways, lets get some updates here. Dont leave us hanging. and how bout some pics of something, anything? Laters, Drew
------------------ Low Original Miles at 35,875!!! 19x8.5(f) and 19x9.5(r) Drifz 520b's 235/35 & 245/35 Nitto NT555s Otherwise stock for now ;)
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01:51 PM
fieroturbo Member
Posts: 1085 From: Orefield, PA Registered: Jan 2003
I am pretty sure he is the farthest along on an eco build besides that one guy that mysteriously showed up with one and wouldnt share(imho, that dont count) so give him some slack. hehe p.s. Get this bada** on the road!!!!!!!!!
Laters, Drew
------------------ Low Original Miles at 35,875!!! 19x8.5(f) and 19x9.5(r) Drifz 520b's 235/35 & 245/35 Nitto NT555s Otherwise stock for now ;)
i have read and reread this thread and i do find all the techno babble interesting ,but the main reason i spent so much time on this thread was to see how to actually put an ecotec into a fiero .at the start of this thread it seemed to be the intent to get a working eco fiero going and then to use an extra block and head and turn it into the super turbo motor and install that into the already running car.instead we have been treated to a teardown and performance rebuild of an engine with only 5000 miles on it.it seems to me he waited a year just for a set of pistons .i dont really get it ,i have seen other posts of an eco actually in a fiero , but forum members seem to think this guy is closer to completing a fiECOro than everbody else .he also said that somebody else already has a running fiecoro but i have not been able to find it.i bet the next step for this engine will be to go into a cavilier test mule.
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11:05 PM
Jun 30th, 2006
zenaku333 Member
Posts: 20 From: punxsutawney/pa/us Registered: May 2005
it is at this stage:i paid bell city auto recyclers 1000.00 for a 2.2 eco ,5 sp tranny cables shifter wiring harnesses ecm and i am picking it up tuesday.the cradle is out of my 86 gt and the old 2.8 and 4 sp tranny are out too.i am taking pictures and will post them as soon as there is something to show .we have all seen pictures of nice shiny engine cradles.
dude- wtf? i have had my fiero since november and i am only half done taking off the shatty primer on it because of time- time and money- he may have the money but time is a little lackign on his part i assume knowing the navy.......... so let em be- if you beat him then hurrah! for you and us then we will know how as well- i assume this is going to be a VERY cheap swap- wich will; be good becuae od the mpg and power you can get out of this enigne-
so do you have any photos of the ecotec hooked tot eh trans yet or mounts or anything? do you have a custom flexplate also? if not what is it from ect.
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01:55 PM
fieroturbo Member
Posts: 1085 From: Orefield, PA Registered: Jan 2003
I was going to post photo's of the clutch/pressure plate/flywheel assembly to show what kind of spacing is needed to make it all work, but I found that I didn't have the right bolts. Those should be here this week.
As far as the flexplate... nothing special. Just a standard ecotec flexplate. I had one, and I had lent it to Ceticars for R&D for the automatic setup he's doing, but he decided to keep it without telling me. I said no prob, as long as he sends pics in return, but I have yet to see a single photo. --- Anyway, the assembly to make the tranny work with the engine is like this: crankshaft/flexplate/spacer/flywheel/clutch-pressure plate/transmission input shaft.
Here's why: I ran into an issue with the engine-tranny adapter plate being 5/8" thick. The clutch most likely wouldn't engage because of the extra distance needed for the fork to travel. So, one would think "add a spacer!", but this can be an issue because if you put a spacer in between the flywheel and the crank, how would the starter motor engage? Could a ring be put in between the fork and the T/O bearing? Sure, but having a metal ring clanking around whenever the clutch pedal is out isn't a fun idea. So, I thought "Why not install a flexplate so the starter motor can turn the engine and allow you to space the flywheel out as much as you need to?"
I researched this, but didn't need to look far. I have a friend with an Audi A4, and he had recently installed a new clutch. He was a bit confused with it though... it had two flywheels! Once I came up with my theory on how to solve my issue, it suddenly hit me... the Audi setup is exactly like what I'm doing. Installing a separate toothed wheel for the starter to move the engine, and having a second flywheel for the clutch & pressure-plate to mount to.
So, the link from the tranny to the engine will definintely work, thanks to Audi, and my Texican friend!
------------------ Petty Officer Michael C Casaceli Aircraft Electronics Technician Third Class Patrol Squadron Ten United States Navy
crankshaft/flexplate/spacer/flywheel/clutch-pressure plate/transmission input shaft? i meen a flywheel sorry or is it flex plate- i am having a brain fart for names- i know it looks like when it is all a part and i know which to choose- AHHH
so could i use the plate for the auto matic like the setup you jsut said in that list- that is where i am getting confused-
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09:56 PM
fieroturbo Member
Posts: 1085 From: Orefield, PA Registered: Jan 2003
i got all my ecotec stuff today.they delivered the whole works,2.2 ,5 speed manual and the entire cars wiring harness .they also sent one of the donor cars axles ,so i took it over and tried it in my 4 speed fiero trans.(86gt) and it fit right in.this means i can use the stock fiero axles with the cavalier 5 speed manual.should save some work if i can get it centred properly.i also have the steering collumn with the key from the car.all this for $1000.00 canadian from bell city auto wreckers of brantford ontario canada.
I will get some pictures up in 3 weeks when i go on vaction Fieroturbo ,i am very busy working on the stand-a-lone ECOTEC wiring harness an a reflashed stock ECU box , we are also working with some guys from the U k , we will be using their software to reflash the ECU with a laptop computer
[This message has been edited by CETICARS (edited 07-13-2006).]
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04:37 PM
Jul 14th, 2006
fieroturbo Member
Posts: 1085 From: Orefield, PA Registered: Jan 2003
Well, while we wait on Ceticar's pics, I have some of my own!
The balanced and lightened (6 lbs removed) stock crankshaft... will hold up to 500HP @ 8500RPM
The lower half of the block/main girdle with the crankshaft inside.
The newly machined block deck. Nice and smooth and shiny! Exactly what's needed for MLS headgaskets.
The turbo oil drain port I installed.
The bottom view of the port.
And finally, the 7/16" studs I installed. These are way better than the stock one-time use headbolts. These will ensure the head doesn't warp under high pressure.
The current hold-up is the piston pin retaining rings. I can't get the darn things in. They don't have little eyelets for pliers like most other pistons do. Once that's done, the rest should flow smoothly until I get to the clutch part of the project.
Till then, happy driving! ------------------ Petty Officer Michael C Casaceli Aircraft Electronics Technician Second Class Patrol Squadron Ten United States Navy
[This message has been edited by fieroturbo (edited 08-02-2006).]
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08:39 AM
Aug 3rd, 2006
1fastcaddy Member
Posts: 618 From: Hays, Kansas Registered: Oct 2004
The MS2 looks like the better choice for me. It's everything I need, with nothing I don't, and has lots of potential. CarCraft seemed happy with the tuning methods... just point and click on the fuel map, and it goes where you clicked. Pretty easy. If it takes awhile, so be it. It gets cold, snowy, and boring up here, so I'll have time. And I'm an electronics technician, so I'll have lots of fun doing that part of the project
My car has MegaSquirt II on it and it was easy to tune, install, and is as reliable as the stock ecu was. I have had it on two different engine so far, the stock 2.8 and now a turbo 3400 I just recently installed (but is running great). MegaSquirt is controling everything on my car: spark, fuel, IAC, knock sensor, wide band o2, ect....
I usually dont come over to these fourms but do post up on RFT so if your are serious about using MS and need some help, feel free to email me or come over there and post some topics.
Marq
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01:51 PM
fieroturbo Member
Posts: 1085 From: Orefield, PA Registered: Jan 2003
I appreciate the help, and yes I was going to go for MS II simply for the reason that the FAST XFI unit is well out of my price range. Alot of what I know with MS is because of help from the j-body groups on the web. They've used Megasquirt on a number of Ecotecs, and they have had great success.
