On early sunbirds turbos if you double klick the igintion key you'll double the boost. You can keep doing this untell something brakes.
That sounds too much like an urban legend...
------------------ Punch the gas and feel the back step sideways; rip off a powershift and hear the tires punished by torque; downshift, lift off and feel the engine braking that only comes from big cubes, listen to the pop and gurgle. Know that you are driving an American V8. There are finer engines made, but none that are this cool.
Luck, Fate and Destiny are words used by those who lack the courage to define their own future
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08:24 AM
Wichita Member
Posts: 20686 From: Wichita, Kansas Registered: Jun 2002
If you double click the ignition key, the only thing you will do is fry your starter. Try putting a boost controller on the wastegate vacuum line. That can double your boost, but even with an intercooler, you need to match boost levels to the adiabatic efficiency of the turbo, or you just have a really big hair dryer. sure you COULD push 20lbs of boost through that intercooler, but it wont cool it enough, and it will heat the air. hot air=bad, unless you drive a diesel. Could you please post the url of the site where you found this info... I still find it a littly hard to belive.
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12:14 AM
Wichita Member
Posts: 20686 From: Wichita, Kansas Registered: Jun 2002
What is the progress so far? I really really want to put an ecotec (bone stock) in mine. If he says you can keep and use the Isuzu 5-speed manual. I'm in for sure.
Good news. The pistons are en route!!! The "Ecotec-to-Fiero tranny" adaptor plate should be done next week as well.
On a bad note, my truck's spoiler fell off, lol. The pedistals had wood in them.....WOOD. Who uses wood in the core of a spoiler? What is wrong with 100% fiberglass?
And with the Sunbird turbo's, that 2.0L is a nice little engine. I have some gripes with the cylinder head, but otherwise, my Olds Firenza 2.0L served me well (same motor, no turbo). I drove it to the junkyard, and darn proud of it. The back end held together just long enough to get it to the parking lot of the yard. Darn Ford pickup nearly totaled that puppy. I miss that car but if it didn't get wrecked, then I may not have my Fiero
As far as turbines, Will, turbojets can be converted to turboshaft, turboshaft to turbo fan, etc. You got my gist though. And yes, like I said, jet turbines have poor throttle response... and Airdales rule!!! Don't any of you black shoes forget that!!! ( LOL :P )
L8r!
------------------ Petty Officer Michael C Casaceli Patrol Squadron Ten, United States Navy 1988 Pontiac Fiero 2.5L, soon to be 2.2L ECOTEC TURBO (THE PROJECT HAS STARTED!!!) 1988 Oldsmobile Firenza 2.0L non-turbo (R.I.P.my beloved J-body. K.I.A. by a Ford) 1994 Chevy S-10 4.3, it's finally here, and it is gorgeous!
FieroTurbo I have a 2003 Vue 4cyl with a VTI transmission in it AWD and I am getting 27 mpg in that vehicle.That model weights 3430 so this engine in a 2400-2500 lb car that is much more wind friendly should get you closer to the 40 mpg range.Granted that Vues VTI does pickup 3-4 mpg over a normal automatic.I was going to go 3.1 or 3.1turbo from a Grandprix to save some weight over the 2.8 and 3.4s .Also becuase of the easier swap,but if we can use our current trans. that changes everything. I've got a ecotec begging to be grabbed at my local bone yard right now w/11,000 on it.The rear of the sunfire is in that front seat.I think getting these engines to 210-240 would make our little beauties nasty little rockets!!! There was an article I read somewhere about how GM uses a technique to cast the blocks that uses styrofoam.(I think thats what I read)very interesting.Anyway keep up that good work you are converting me back to a 4cyl swap for my duke with every page.I am very interested in the trans adapter.I can personally atest to the durability of this engine in my Vue.We have had it for about 2.5 years almost 60,000 miles already NO problems.
*cough* 11,000 views!?! You must have alot of weight on your shoulders there fieroturbo . Keep up the good work, gonna love seeing an actual picture of it in the fiero .
James
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12:18 AM
fieroturbo Member
Posts: 1085 From: Orefield, PA Registered: Jan 2003
GOOD NEWS!!! The R&D part of the engine adapters has been completed. If you want a set, with flexplate/flywheel spacer, contact Ceticars@aol.com. For the time being, he's the source for them. Once I complete my project, I'll most likely be able to make the adaptors on my own.
rvalmore, even though this eco is going in such a light car, something to keep in mind is that my setup will be turbocharged. Even though the volumetric effeciency will be as high as 96%, as low as 90%, there will be some loss of MPG. I don't estimate anything higher than 35mpg. For your setup in the Vue, that Continuously Variable Transmission certainly plays a big part in the MPG. Those definitely get better fuel economy than the regualr autos, and I'm sure a better ride, and better acceleration. To bad they can't hack the high torque that the Ecotec can put out when modified. I think the most a typical CVT can handle is 215 lbs/ft of torque, with the exception of the new Toyota Prius, cause that thing has an electric motor that puts out 275lbs/ft of torque, so that has to be able to handle more power.
If you're looking for a used ecotec, I think there's one on Ebay right now. I don't think it has an ignition module though, nor a wiring harness.
As far as how they make the engine blocks, yes, they do use styrofoam. It's called a "Lost Foam Casting" process. I'll take a close up of the block to show you guys. If you look up close to the Eco's, it looks like styrofoam, but it's really aluminum. It's almost a bit scary, but then again, I have yet to hear about anyone having cracks in any part of an Ecotec. I've found out first hand, these motors are stonger than they seem.
TTFN!!!
------------------ Petty Officer Michael C Casaceli Patrol Squadron Ten, United States Navy 1988 Pontiac Fiero 2.5L, soon to be 2.2L ECOTEC TURBO (THE PROJECT HAS STARTED!!!) 1988 Oldsmobile Firenza 2.0L non-turbo (R.I.P.my beloved J-body. K.I.A. by a Ford) 1994 Chevy S-10 4.3, it's finally here, and it is gorgeous!
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02:36 AM
PFF
System Bot
TaurusThug Member
Posts: 4271 From: Simpsonville, SC Registered: Aug 2003
Yeah the 2.4L Ecotec is neat. 170HP, AND it has variable valve timing. Imagine the GM supercharger on that. I makes 240HP on the 2.2, so fair guess comes to about 265-270HP on the 2.4 VVT Eco.
For Ecotec Fiero #2, my dream is to get a Fiero Indy (with a bad motor, so I have a good excuse to rip it out ) with a 2.4 VVT, AND the GM supercharger (with smaller pulley for more boost), and mate it to a 4T65-E 4-speed auto tranny. With those, because the shifting is electronic, that makes one wonder... why not have pushbutton/paddle shifting? Get that carbon fiber momo steering wheel with the two thumb buttons on the wheel itself, and shift the gears with those
If I can't find an Indy, then an 84-87 Notchie, with an IMSA GTU body kit would suffice ------------- 11,000 views is something. I'm surprised it's gotten that far. I've wanted to change the subject title since page one, make it like Bryson's, where he actually says the HP goal on the title. Mine just says update, lol.
As far as the adaptor plate, someone is custom making it for me, but it's not a one off deal. More can be made if needed. Cost is around $400.
That takes care of the transmission to engine link, but for mounting the engine itself to the car, things are looking good as far as adaptors that won't need welding.
I can definitley make a bolt in lower mount for the Iron Duke people who want to install an Ecotec. It might be so close of a match, that it may only need two bolts and a few polyurethane spacers, or a metal spacer for those that want a solid mount.
The upper mount though is the catch. Drilling into the back side of the passenger side strut tower may be necessary. The upper mount isn't a dogbone on Eco's, like it is on dukes. The lower mount of an Eco is, but with the idea I have, it will eliminate the lower dog bone, for a two bolt setup like the upper mount.
Pistons didn't come yet. They're coming from CA, and going to Maine..... SLOOOOWWWW. Mail to Maine is slow reguardless.
That's all for now. Gotta go to work.
Peace out!
------------------ Petty Officer Michael C Casaceli Patrol Squadron Ten, United States Navy 1988 Pontiac Fiero 2.5L, soon to be 2.2L ECOTEC TURBO (THE PROJECT HAS STARTED!!!) 1988 Oldsmobile Firenza 2.0L non-turbo (R.I.P.my beloved J-body. K.I.A. by a Ford) 1994 Chevy S-10 4.3, it's finally here, and it is gorgeous!
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10:54 PM
Fastback 86 Member
Posts: 7849 From: Los Angeles, CA Registered: Sep 2003
The tranny adapter plate will work whether coming from a duke or a 2.8, and so will the upper mount.
The lower mount is the question. I think the lower engine mount on cradles for V6 models is farther to the right, so the adaptor will be diferent of course.
There are more 4 cyl Fieros than V6 ones, and we all know which one is underpowered, so it makes sense to work on a replacement for the weaker one first.
You V6 guys have plenty of upgrades, turbo kits are one of them. It's time that us 4 banger guys get in the spotlight for a change.
[This message has been edited by fieroturbo (edited 09-09-2004).]
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02:59 AM
Sep 15th, 2004
fieroturbo Member
Posts: 1085 From: Orefield, PA Registered: Jan 2003
How long do you figure it will before the kit goes into production? This is the swap I'd eventually love to do! Only problem is that I had my 2.8 recently rebuilt and it has fairly good mileage on it. I'd like to run it into the ground first and save up a lot of money.
How long do you figure it will before the kit goes into production? This is the swap I'd eventually love to do! Only problem is that I had my 2.8 recently rebuilt and it has fairly good mileage on it. I'd like to run it into the ground first and save up a lot of money.
Lots of Nitrous will speed up the process of running it into the ground, LOL!
Well, the time schedule is this. Some BS stuff going on in the squadron, like uniform inspections, bi-anual Fitness test, hardcore room inspections (which are really getting on my nerves), and the pistons, rings, and new rod bearings won't be here till the end of the month, so my plan to get the bottom end of the motor assembled by oct 1st is a bit off schedule.
I'll have the cylinder head done sooner than I thought, so the motor could be assembled by the end of oct, in by december, and running by christmas. Tuning will take awhile, but my hope is to reach 500HP no later than Easter 2005. I can start kit prototypes this spring, but I deploy in June 2005, and don't get back till December that year, so expect kits to be sold no earlier than January 2006.
But then again, by then there will be way more Ecotec's to choose from, including the 2.4 Liter VVT motor, and the GM superchargers will be out and about, along with many more mods, including pre-wired aftermarket ECM harnessses, for like Tec-3 and Greddy, which will make my job easier -------------------------------------------- Good news, I got the key ingredient needed for the cylinder head... 1mm oversized stainless steel valves! (can I hear a hell yeah?)
So now I can send out the valves and cylinder head to a machine shop, get the head ported and 'maybe' polished as well (polishing isn't always best, I'll explain in a sec) and get the valve seats machined for the extra 1mm diameter the new valves have.
1mm may not seem much, but take 1mm, multiply it across 16 valves, and you have an additional 16mm of breathing room for the engine. And what I was saying about polishing not always being a good option, is because slight turbulence can be a good thing, because it helps to mix the air and fuel together. Even though I have a turbo setup, which would add turbulence, there will be some distance between the turbo and the intake, so I have to do some more math for that. --------------------------------------------- And as far as Airdales vs. Black shoes, I'm staying out of this one, cause I almost cross rated to ET from AT, meaning I was almost a black shoe.
Plus..... cooks are black shoes, and they make our food, and insulting them is a bad thing. Plus IT's keep the computers at the hangar up and running, which allows us to goof off on the internet while we're waiting for stuff to fix, LOL :P
But, airdales can easliy blow up ships and subs, so the black shoes better not say anything harsh either, hehe
I'll get pics of the valves on sometime later today. They were machined quite well, and will be a great addition to the motor.
later!
------------------ Petty Officer Michael C Casaceli Patrol Squadron Ten, United States Navy 1988 Pontiac Fiero 2.5L, soon to be 2.2L ECOTEC TURBO (THE PROJECT HAS STARTED!!!) 1988 Oldsmobile Firenza 2.0L non-turbo (R.I.P.my beloved J-body. K.I.A. by a Ford) 1994 Chevy S-10 4.3, it's finally here, and it is gorgeous!
[This message has been edited by fieroturbo (edited 09-18-2004).]
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06:18 AM
PFF
System Bot
doublec4 Member
Posts: 8289 From: Oakville, Ontario, Canada Registered: Jun 2003
WOW this topic is going on for awhile and after reading it, I will change my mind! I was thinking of a quad swap for my indy but all those comments are pushing me to the ecotec. Ecotec engines are easy to find but is there differences depending on the year of the donor car? I spoted a 95 sunfire gt with a 2.4l will this motor be compatible with the adaptor plate you worked on ? thanks
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10:47 AM
fieroturbo Member
Posts: 1085 From: Orefield, PA Registered: Jan 2003
Actually, I wish I could say the Quad 4 had the same bellhousing, but it doesn't, so no, this plate won't work. In fact, 95-up Quad 4's had a different bellhousing than 94-below Quad 4's. However, the transmissions that came with the 94-below Quad 4's WILL bolt into the stock Fiero tranny mounts, as Bryson so well proved to us. I think if you want to do a swap to a better 4 banger sooner, than later, the Quad 4 is a better bet.
Honestly, I originally considered the Quad 4 for this swap originally, but I wanted to squeeze out as much cornering and braking potential as I could out of my Fiero, so I chose the Ecotec.
See, the ecotec is 100% aluminum, whereas the Quad 4 has an Iron block, with an aluminum head. This makes the quad's block a bit stronger than the Ecotec, but not as light.
A major point with the Quad, is that I've heard it does better with nitrous (because of the iron block?) than the Ecotec, cause the Eco's DO NOT like nitrous. The Eco's work perfect with turbo's, but nitrous just makes things worse. The eco can't handle the cylinder pressures, nor the sudden hit of power from it. The most that the race teams could get was 358HP from an all nitrous Eco, whereas I've heard of over 450HP from an all nitrous Quad (supposedly).
So really, it depends what YOU want as far as power adders, if any at all.
At the moment, the Quad is a cheaper and easier swap than the Eco, simply becuase there are fewer Eco's, and it's a new swap that no one has really gone over step by step before, so although I don't want to stray you away from the Ecotec, I think if you come across a cheap Quad, go for it.
If you need an adapter plater, see what celticars@aol.com can't get you. The guy he works with can do all sorts of plates.
------------------ Petty Officer Michael C Casaceli Patrol Squadron Ten, United States Navy 1988 Pontiac Fiero 2.5L, soon to be 2.2L ECOTEC TURBO (THE PROJECT HAS STARTED!!!) 1988 Oldsmobile Firenza 2.0L non-turbo (R.I.P.my beloved J-body. K.I.A. by a Ford) 1994 Chevy S-10 4.3, it's finally here, and it is gorgeous!
[This message has been edited by fieroturbo (edited 09-19-2004).]
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07:35 PM
fieroturbo Member
Posts: 1085 From: Orefield, PA Registered: Jan 2003
As promised, here's a pic of the stainless steel 1mm oversized valves:
AND, I just got a brand new cometic Multi-layer-steel headgasket; reuseable over and over, doesn't need gasket sealant of any kind (goes on dry), and it's good to 30 psi
There's just one problem.........
UPS bent the hell out of it!?!?!?!?!?!
Oh well, at least the pistons are in transit. I've been waiting for so long on those, they had better be dipped in 24kt gold to make up for how long it has taken.
That's the problem with new motors like the Ecotec. That MLS headgasket from Cometic is the first non-copper performance headgasket ever made for the Ecotec, and it's only been on the market for about a month and a half.
Also, it seems that the ecotec is so nice, it's being discussed twice!!! https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/056055.html This new post seems to be more in the "N/A-bone stock is good enough for me!" interest, whereas the one you're reading now is "how much power can we get?"
That's all for now! Going to go work on my truck now. I'm re-doing the whole rear suspension.
------------------ Petty Officer Michael C Casaceli Patrol Squadron Ten, United States Navy 1988 Pontiac Fiero 2.5L, soon to be 2.2L ECOTEC TURBO (THE PROJECT HAS STARTED!!!) 1988 Oldsmobile Firenza 2.0L non-turbo (R.I.P.my beloved J-body. K.I.A. by a Ford) 1994 Chevy S-10 4.3, it's finally here, and it is gorgeous!
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05:16 PM
fieroturbo Member
Posts: 1085 From: Orefield, PA Registered: Jan 2003
I could probabbly use it as a backup, like if I'm at the track one day, and I use just a little to much boost and blow the good one, and I need to replace it then and there.
Or maybe use it for any test bed motors in the future, cause MLS headgaskets can be re-used.
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08:45 AM
Oct 12th, 2004
fieroturbo Member
Posts: 1085 From: Orefield, PA Registered: Jan 2003
LOL, I'm doing the work part now. Getting the old rods and pistons off. I'm sending the crank, the new rods, and the new pistons out to Texas to get balanced. This puppy will be smooth, and will increase the reliability of the stock crank.
$125 to balance and machine the stock crank, vs. $850 for a forged crank + the $125 needed to balance that........that's a no brainer. Stock crank!
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01:34 AM
Oct 14th, 2004
fieroturbo Member
Posts: 1085 From: Orefield, PA Registered: Jan 2003
have any pics of the head? did you go ahead and get it ported or port it yourself? yes it will help the VE of the enging and should be worth more that 20hp under boost conditions. It'll allow more air in the engine with less boost. the turbo doesn't have to work as hard.
pics pics pics.
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07:36 AM
fieroturbo Member
Posts: 1085 From: Orefield, PA Registered: Jan 2003
Well, I was thinking of doing the porting myself, like I did with my Oldsmobile 4 years ago (see signature), also cause I have two heads, incase I mess one up, BUT, since I also need the valve seats redone, because I have larger valves for this motor, I'm going to have a pro take care of it.
Here's the problem. Maine sucks. It's the worst state for a car guy. You tell them DOHC, and they look at you funny.
Maybe the place in Texas I'm sending my bottom end to can machine the head properly. We'll see how they do on the bottom end first.
------------------ Petty Officer Michael C Casaceli Patrol Squadron Ten, United States Navy 1988 Pontiac Fiero 2.5L, soon to be 2.2L ECOTEC TURBO (THE PROJECT HAS STARTED!!!) 1988 Oldsmobile Firenza 2.0L non-turbo (R.I.P.my beloved J-body. K.I.A. by a Ford) 1994 Chevy S-10 4.3, it's finally here, and it is gorgeous!
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09:49 AM
Oct 26th, 2004
cone shark Member
Posts: 160 From: Northern, NY Registered: Jun 2001
o well HOWS THE ECOTEC GOING?!?!?!?!?!!??
. Keep up the good work, gonna love seeing an actual picture of it in the fiero 
and blow the good one, and I need to replace it then and there.
