Is any one interested in helping with a thread of aldl results?
This may be handy for people to use to compare to if they are having a problem.
I haven’t found anywhere what a good base line of each reading should be.

And does anyone have a description of what each data stream is?

[This message has been edited by buddycraigg (edited 12-30-2005).]

this is an 1985 GT V6 4speed that seems to run ok.

engine off.

MW2-32
PROMIDA-35
PROMIDB-92
IAC-100
CT-59
MPH-0
MAP-239
RPM-0
TPS-37
INT-128
O2-48
MALFFLG1-0
MALFFLG2-0
MALFFLG3-0
MWAF1-0
MCU1IO-37
MCU2IO-16
VOLT-118
BLM-128
O2_CNT-0
ADVANCE-0
EGRDC-0
MAT-226
BPWMSB-3
BPWLSB-230

Here is some base data from the manual…..

thanks. but that really doesn't help with raw numbers from a data stream

Doesn't winALDL show the converted and the raw data? Why not go by the converted data?

Info from an old thread. This is pretty intense, but maybe there will be some info that is needed

How GM Electronic Fuel Injection Works
Update 01/26/02 - Many people have asked me why the chip has to be reprogrammed if the fuel logic is self-adjusting. I have added a new section at the bottom to clarify the need for tuning of the chip.

This document describes how GM Fuel Injection manages fuel and spark in gasoline engines from a novice’s point of view. Actually GM systems manage fuel, spark and transmissions so a more appropriate description would be GM Powertrain management. There are three basic functions of GM fuel injection; fuel management, spark control, and transmission control. I will discuss fuel management first since that is the most important.

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Fuel Management

EFI systems have different operating modes depending on the power output needed from the engine and operating conditions. The modes are open loop, closed loop, power enrichment and lean cruise modes. I will describe closed loop first since it is the predominant operating mode.

Closed loop mode means the engine control module (ECM) measures the A/F (air/fuel) ratio and uses this information to maintain the A/F ratio at a certain constant value. This mode uses feedback from an (oxygen) O2 sensor to close the loop. The A/F that the system tries to maintain is 14.7 to 1. The reason is that a 14.7 A/F ratio allows a catalytic converter to reduce exhaust emissions most efficiently. Engines don’t necessarily run the best at 14.7 at all times, but they produce the least emissions with a catalytic converter at this ratio. Also, it just so happens that the standard O2 sensor is most accurate at 14.7 A/F ratio, which gives a good feedback signal.

The bottom line is that the ECM control logic tries to maintain a 14.7 A/F ratio during normal conditions. Normal conditions are a fully warmed engine and other than full throttle. Because of closed loop, engines can run for thousands of miles and the EFI system will compensate as the engine wears to keep fuel delivery consistent.

Open loop mode differs from closed loop in that the O2 sensor is ignored and the engine can be managed to run at A/F ratios other than 14.7, usually richer or lower than 14.7. The ECM controls the fuel injectors without getting any feedback that the calculated fuel delivery rate actually matches what the engine received. Without feedback, the loop is open, hence the term "open loop". A good example of open loop is when the engine is first started on a cold day. It requires a rich mixture to start a cold engine since a lot of the fuel doesn’t reach the combustion chamber. This is because a portion of the gasoline doesn’t vaporize and pools inside the manifold until engine heat vaporizes the fuel. Another reason that engines run in open loop when cold is that O2 sensors don’t work until they reach about 6008 F, so it takes a few minutes in cold weather for them to begin functioning. Open loop is sometimes used at idle conditions since some engines idle better with a rich mixture. In open loop, the ECM commands an A/F ratio that is determined from a table of A/F vs. engine coolant temperature. The open loop A/F is also adjusted to run richer as engine load increases.

Another mode is power enrichment mode. This mode only occurs under wide open throttle conditions and is solely determined by the throttle position sensor (i.e. above say 60% throttle opening.) In this mode, the ECM ignores the O2 sensor and commands a richer than 14.7 A/F ratio. This is because engines develop more power with a slightly richer mixture but not too rich. This is the area of tuning that interests hot rodders the most since PE mode is where the fuel delivery for all out power is determined.

Finally there is lean cruise mode. In this mode the ECM commands a leaner than 14.7 A/F ratio or less fuel. This mode can only used be used at light loads when the vehicle speed is above a certain value, in other words, hiway cruise. In this mode, the ECM commands the leaner A/F ratio, increases spark advance, and occasionally returns to closed loop mode to double check itself. There is one problem with this mode. GM ultimately did not enable this mode since it allowed them to circumvent the emissions laws to achieve better gas mileage. This mode is only used by GM EFI tuning experts with enough knowledge to make it work without damaging their engine. If the engine is run too lean, spark plugs, valves, and pistons can be damaged. However, when done correctly, up to 10% in mileage gains are possible above the already excellent mileage from closed loop mode.

In summary, GM EFI controls fuel to maintain a 14.7 A/F ratio at all times under normal conditions. During other than normal conditions, open loop mode is used so that A/F ratios other than 14.7 can be commanded.

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From this point on, this document will go into greater detail about how the ECM implements the different modes and how the system can be retuned to control modified engines.

The best way to organize the rest of this document is to explain each term in the fuel delivery calculation individually. The pulse width of an injector determines the amount of fuel delivered to the engine. A pulse width is the amount of time an injector is turned on over a fixed time interval. If the injector is turned on longer, more fuel is injected. If the injector is turned off sooner, less fuel is injected. The equation that determines the injector pulse width is this:

BPW = BPC * MAP * T * A/F * VE * BVC * BLM * DFCO * DE * CLT * TBM

Where

BPW - Base Pulse Width

BPC - Base Pulse Constant

MAP - Manifold Absolute Pressure

T - Temperature

A/F - Air Fuel Ratio

VE - Volumetric Efficiency

BVC - Battery Voltage Correction

BLM - Block Learn

DFCO - Decel Fuel Cutoff

DE - Decel Enleanment

CLT - Closed Loop

TBM - Turbo Boost Multiplier

In the above equation, any term that has a value of 1 is essentially not contributing to fuel delivery or neutral. It is not taking away or adding to the fuel quantity.

BPW - Base Pulse Width means the pulse width under steady state engine conditions. Extra fuel is added when the throttle is juiced for acceleration. This is called asynchronous mode and will be discussed later. The above equation only consists of the synchronous mode contribution.

BPC - Base Pulse Constant is a term that is calculated from the volume of one cylinder, the flow rate of one injector, and a constant that converts the units to match other terms in the equation. For more on this term, see www.tunercat.com and the 1227747 ECM calibration help file.

MAP – Manifold Absolute Pressure is a measure of the load on the engine. It is the pressure inside the intake manifold in KiloPascals above absolute zero pressure. It is the opposite of engine vacuum meaning that a high vacuum reading is a low MAP value. Zero vacuum (full throttle) is 100 Kpa MAP. Although I don’t fully understand the inclusion of this term in the equation, it is used extensively in all areas of engine control.

T – Temperature is actually the inverse of the absolute temperature. Once again, I don’t fully understand the inclusion of this term in the equation, but as you will see later, I don’t need to for the purpose of this document. It probably adjusts for the density of the air in calculating the fuel delivery.

A/F – Air Fuel Ratio is a term that I do understand. In closed loop mode, this term remains 1 and does not contribute to the equation. In open loop mode, this term takes on different values depending on coolant temperature, MAP, cranking status, clear flood condition, throttle position sensor, etc. When this term is other than 1, the closed loop term is held to 1 so that the two terms will not be fighting one another. This term is also where PE mode is implemented. In other words, this term is the controlling term when other than a 14.7 A/F is desired.

VE – Volumetric Efficiency is a term that corrects for different engine efficiencies. An engine is basically an air pump and the better the pump, the more power it can generate. Some engines are better pumps than others at a given RPM and MAP condition, so this term allows the equation to be calibrated for different engines. This is the single most important term that a speed density EFI system is famous for. There is a table in the ECM EPROM (chip) that gives VE for a given RPM and MAP condition. The important concept to grasp here is that the VE table is used in both open and closed loop modes, and essentially all modes. What is not so obvious to a novice is that this table, when programmed correctly, will result in a 14.7 A/F ratio with no closed loop or open loop correction taking place. In other words, this table provides a baseline that tells the ECM where 14.7 A/F ratio is so that other A/F ratios can be commanded and the ECM will be at the desired AFR. When this table is adjusted correctly, the engine runs the smoothest, not because the engine is running at 14.7 necessarily, but because all other ratios depend on this table being accurate. If this table is off, the closed loop term will correct the A/F ratio back to 14.7 to a degree. If this table is way off, the closed loop term can’t compensate and the engine may not run period. A good example of when this table needs adjusting is when a hot cam is installed. A stock cam typically idles at 17 inches vacuum. But a hot cam might idle at 15 inches or less of vacuum. The VE table will be calling for more fuel at a lower vacuum reading (higher MAP), but the engine doesn’t need the extra fuel because its still idling. In this case, the calibration doesn’t match the engine’s airflow characteristics. Unless the VE table is changed to lower the efficiency at this MAP and RPM, the engine will run very rich and probably stumble and blow black smoke. The majority of retuning a GM EFI system for non-GM and non-stock engines is done in the VE table since this is the baseline of the entire system. See Figure 1 for a sample of this table.

FIGURE 1.

BVC – Battery Voltage Correction is a term that corrects the fuel delivery rate for different battery voltages. The injector response is enhanced at higher voltages and is a bit sluggish by comparison at lower voltages. This term is a correction to offset the change in injector response due to battery voltage fluctuations. I suppose in time the closed loop term would correct the A/F ratio anyway, but this term catches it first. I see no reason to change this table since GM set it up based on their injectors’ characteristics.

BLOCK LEARN – Block Learn is a term that is related to closed loop mode, but continues its influence during all modes. To make the block learn term easier to understand I will ask you to jump to the closed loop term discussion and then come back to this section. Now that you understand the closed loop term, I'll continue. The BLOCK LEARN term can be viewed as a semi-permanent automatic adjustment of the VE tables. I say semi-permanent because if you disconnect the battery, the BLM adjustments revert back to 128 or neutral (the neutral value for a BLM value is 128). Another name for the BLOCK LEARN term is long term fuel trim. Over time, the BLM numbers will settle at a value that gives a 14.7 A/F ratio with no closed loop term correction. I say values because there are more than one BLM value, unlike the single Integrator. The BLM can be up to 32 different numbers depending on the ECM model. The Block Learn term derives its name from the way the VE table is divided into blocks for the corrections to take place. To illustrate this better, see figure 1. I have drawn a grid over the VE table. The grid in the figure is for illustration purposes only. The actual BLM boundaries are decided by the ECM and the EPROM settings. Each division of the grid is called a Block Learn cell and each cell has its own BLOCK LEARN value. Each cell is associated with certain ranges of RPM and MAP in the VE table, so the BLM value in a given cell affects all the VE values in that cell. For ex., say cell 4 has a BLM value of 140. Every VE value in cell 4 will be increased by 140/128, or about 9 percent. In an adjacent cell, the BLM might be 110, which will decrease all VE values in that cell by 110/128, or 14 percent.

Now that you know how the BLM value affects the VE table, we can explain how the BLM itself is changed. In closed loop, it is discussed how the Integrator increases or decreases as the ECM gets feedack from the O2 sensor. The BLM value tracks the Integrator but has a delay. If the Integrator increases, so does the BLM, but the BLM lags behind the Integrator. The higher the Integrator climbs above 128, the faster the BLM rises. As the BLM rises, it begins to effect the AFR because remember, the VE table is being increased. As the AFR drops (gets richer) in response to the increased VE table, the Integrator will stop rising and begin to fall. Once the Integrator returns to a value of 128, the BLM will stop moving. Not only will the BLM stop moving, it will remain at that value permanently, essentially retuning the VE table at this engine operating condition. The only thing that will send the BLM back to 128 is removing power from the ECMs memory (or retuning the VE table manually with an EPROM burner). In reality, the BLM values never stay in one spot. They constantly jump around a bit near the 14.7 AFR. The tuning implications of this are as follows. Remember that the Integrator value can't be used to determine how far away from 14.7 you are. However, the BLM value can. Since the BLM settles at a value indicating how much more fuel is needed beyond what the VE table is delivering, you can use the BLM value to adjust the VE tables manually, i.e. with an EPROM burner. If your scantool shows a BLM of 150 at 2000 RPM and 50 KPa MAP, then you know that the VE table value at 2000 RPM and 50 KPa MAP needs to be raised by (150/128) 17 percent. The problem is that the ECM doesn't tell you where the cell boundaries are through a scantool, so you need a great deal of data to discover where the VE tables are off. This is where a datalogging program such as Datamaster or WINALDL come in handy. They allow you to drive for up to 25 minutes (longer with WINALDL) and record on your laptop hard drive every sensor and internal value in the ECM up to 7 times per second. Obviously, with this much data, you need a good analysis tool like Datamaster and a statistical analysis program. I take the Datamaster file and export it into Excel so that I can use the data sort functions to group the data into useful information. Once you get the VE table close, one trick is to reprogram the BLM upper and lower limits to 128 so that the BLM feature is disabled. Then, you can use just the Integrator to do the fine tuning. You can immediately see where the AFR is rich or lean at any location in the VE table. But you have to guess at how much to add or remove from the VE table since the Integrator value is not scalable like the BLM values. You can't use just the O2 sensor voltage though. If you are not in closed loop, the ECM will be trying to control to all kinds of A/F ratios, so the O2 sensor voltage will be meaningless. Unless you know all the factors affecting the AFR that the ECM is trying to control to, you have to do your VE table tuning in closed loop. The reason is that the ECM is definitely trying to maintain a 14.7 AFR by definition in closed loop. In general, if your BLM values are all significantly low, then you probably have your BPC set too high. If your BLMs are all too high, set the BPC a little higher. If the BLMs are both above and below 128, but not too far above (135) and below (120), your VE table is probably reasonably close. If your BLMs are way above and below 128 all over the VE tables, the calibration is probably significantly off and needs to be manually corrected in the chip with an EPROM burner.

DECEL FUEL CUTOFF – Decel fuel cuttoff means exactly that. When you take your foot off the gas pedal going downhill or decelerating quickly, the ECM will cut off the fuel entirely. The difference between this term and the next one, DECEL FUEL ENLEANMENT, is that some fuel is allowed to reach the engine during DECEL Enleanment. As to when one or the other occurs, I don't know. I do know that on my TPI system, I noticed a lunge from the engine right around 1500 RPM, so I think this is where the DECEL fuel enleanment takes over from the DECEL FUEL CUTOFF. The lunge was significant and could easily cause you to run into the something if you weren't expecting it. I also believe a speed sensor is required for these two modes to operate period. So this is another reason to have a speed sensor.

DECEL FUEL ENLEANMENT – See Decel Fuel Cutoff above.

CLOSED LOOP – Closed Loop is a term in which the ECM uses feedback from the O2 sensor to make corrections to the air fuel ratio. Another name for this term is short term fuel trim. The ECM makes immediate but temporary corrections to the fuel delivery to maintain the AFR at 14.7. The only ratio that can be maintained in closed loop is 14.7. This is due to the nature of the type oxygen sensor used on most passenger cars. There are other types of O2 sensors called wide band sensors, but they are expensive. They can be used to monitor the AFR at other than 14.7 AFR. The short term fuel trim value is called the Integrator in most early scantools. The value of the integrator varies above and below 128 with 128 being no correction. For ex., if the Integrator is 140, the ECM is adding fuel because the O2 sesnor is reading a lean mixture. If the Integrator is 115, the ECM is removing fuel because the O2 sensor is reading a rich mixture. Anytime the system is not in closed loop, the Integrator will immediately return to a value of 128 and stay there. There is only one Integrator and its value is solely dependent on the O2 sensor. When the engine is started, the ECM will keep the Integrator at 128 until the ECM determines that the O2 sensor is working correctly and that the engine temperature and time delay constraints before entering closed loop have been satisfied. Once the ECM goes into closed loop, the Integrator begins to adjust the fuel delivery to maintain a 14.7 A/F ratio, however, the Integrator term is only weighted half as much as the Block Learn term. The Integrator and BLOCK LEARN work together to re-tune the system to match any engine's charactersitics, up to a practical limit.

TURBO BOOST MULTIPLIER – This term adds extra fuel during boost conditions on turbo charged engines. Discussion of this term is beyond the scope of this document. It is recommended that you purchase Tunercat's SYTY TDF file if you want more information on this term.

Asynchronous Fuel Mode – This is not a term in the equation above but rather a temporary mode in which the injectors are commanded on longer for transient conditions. The accelerator pump shot is an asynchronous mode function in which extra milliseconds are added to the injector pulse width when the throttle postion sensor rapidly changes state. This will be illustrated later in other sections of this site.

Spark Management
Unlike fuel management, spark management is an open loop only system. What you program in the chip is what the ECM uses with no automatic adjustment to improve performance or drivability. The exception to this statement is the knock sensor function of retarding timing to eliminate engine detonation, but this function does not advance the timing if the engine is running at less than optimum. The fact that spark timing is not automatically improved means that its up to you, the programmer, to optimize the spark timing tables, and herein lies the secret to tweaking more power from your vehicle. An engine operates at its best power level when the spark is timed to start combustion to give the maximum torque at that RPM and engine load. And getting spark timing this perfect requires extensive dyno testing or road testing. One fellow claims to have reprogrammed his chip 400 times to get it right on. The criteria for a good part throttle spark table is to be able to maintain a given speed and engine load (MAP) with a minimum amount of throttle input. I have found that a reasonably good spark table can be generated by duplicating the spark curves from a factory service manual for a particular non-GM engine or using the spark table from a stock GM binary file for a GM engine of similar size and specs. Beyond these methods, tuning a spark table is mostly trial and error by seeing what works the best and what doesn't. Figure 2 is the spark table I am running in my GMC 350 truck.

FIGURE 2.

Updated 1/26/02 - Many have asked me why the chip needs reprogramming if the fuel tuning is self adjusting. Well, its kind of like the difference between a cheap $200 paint job and a nice shiny $2000 paint job. If the ECM has to do a lot of self-tuning, there are some situations where although the car will be drivable, it will not be smooth and steady, but hesitant and sluggish. The best way to explain why this happens is to look at Figure 1 above once more. Look at the 2000 RPM row and the 40 - 70 range of MAP. Say you have been steadily cruising along at 2000 RPM and 70 MAP (up a significant hill). Also say the BLM at this load point settled at around 118, so the VE table at 2000 RPM and 70 MAP is too rich, requiring the subtraction of 8% (118/128) less fuel. Also say earlier in the day you were cruising at 2000 RPM and 60 MAP on a flatter road. Say that at this load point the BLM settled at 138. This would mean that the VE table value at 2000 RPM and 60 MAP is too lean by 8% (138/128). If we assume that the lines I drew on the chart are the BLM cell boundaries, then we have established that within the same cell, you can have drastically different BLMs. When this happens, your engine will surge, hesitate, and in general feel like it may run out of gas at any moment. It won't, it just feels that way. The reason is this. Say you were cruising at the 2000 RPM and 70 MAP load point for quite some time resulting in the same 118 BLM. Then you quickly peaked a hill and were going down the other side at 2000 RPM at 40 MAP. Now you have jumped from one cell to a lower one. Once you get to the bottom of the hill, you start back up a flatter hill at 2000 RPM and 60 MAP. You would feel a sluggishness and reluctance to go for a few seconds until the integrator and BLM could correct the mixture. What happened is that at 2000 RPM and 60 MAP, the VE table is too lean (138 BLM), but the last time you were in this cell, your BLM was 118 and it stayed there when you left the cell. So now, you are 17% too lean because you are running a 118 BLM where it needs to be 138. This is 16% (118/138) too little fuel. The engine would feel sluggish here for a few seconds until closed loop could correct it. In a very short time of probably less than 10 seconds, the 118 BLM will rise up to 138 BLM, so once you reach a steady unchanging load, the engine will smooth out. In the situation I have just described, the calibration is marginally matched to the engine, although it will run the engine and you can live with the car. But when you adjust the VE tables such that all VE table values in the same cell yield the same BLM, the engine will run much smoother. It doesn't mean the calibration is right, but better suited for the engine. What this means is that a well tuned chip smooths out the transitions from one load point to another so that you can't tell when you've crossed into another cell. Ideally, each load point in the VE table should have had its own floating BLM value, but I imagine that the processor memory and speed were insufficient to handle this complex of a task in the early to mid 1980s when this stuff was created. So, the goal of tuning using the WINALDL program on my site is to get all the BLM values to remain at 128 throughout all the different load points on the BLM chart above.

Yes, check the box that shows data as converted. The raw data is useless unless you're hacking WinALDL itself.

Because of the slow data rate, 160 baud, the O2 sensor voltage is meaningless unless it shows stuck at the same voltage all the time. The normal behavior of the O2 sensor is to cycle rapidly, 2-3 times a second, from rich to lean.

The biggest benefit to WinALDL aside from the normal scantool functions is to log data while driving, particularly the BLM and INT numbers. Over time you can begin to see rich or lean conditions at various throttle/load conditions, and if they're significant you can modify the fuel tables in a new chip and tune your motor that way.

Some other limitations are that since the 2.8 shares an O2 sensor for both banks you can't really identify a particular cylinder problem, and since there's no post-cat sensor you can't really identify a false rich or lean condition easily, if at all.

The last time I fired up WinALDL I used it to identify a TPS voltage problem, took all of a minute to figure out and fifteen minutes to fix.

JazzMan

Is there anyone here who can look at the WINaldl files and tell whats going on? Other than the temp, mph, and rpm readings, it's just a bunch of numbers to me. How can I tell if I'm running rich or lean at certain rpm's and how would the fact than I'm running a turbo affect the readings?

quote Originally posted by Jncomutt: Doesn't winALDL show the converted and the raw data? Why not go by the converted data?

i thought the raw data would be better to go with.
it has 25 lines of information.
the sensor data only has 16.

quote Originally posted by srat110: Is there anyone here who can look at the WINaldl files and tell whats going on? Other than the temp, mph, and rpm readings, it's just a bunch of numbers to me. How can I tell if I'm running rich or lean at certain rpm's and how would the fact than I'm running a turbo affect the readings?

srat110, Take a look here : http://www.ws6transam.org/aldl_47.html and search around the site, if you have winaldl an have logs saved you can compare them to others logs--as starters--there is some very good info in the long post above you, I started doing this a couple weeks ago along with dodgerunner, we have been sending logs/info back-n-forth to compare, he has been reading/researching as well as my-self to figure this out , I read the long post above a week ago from the archives and it didn`t make sense, it now does, but there`s more to learn. dodgerunner and my-self will probally post some more links on winaldl info--if this thread stays alive, dodgerunner (I think)? is looking into the possiblity very soon to do some chip reprogramming. To answer your question on turbo---look again at the long post above, then go to the web-site : www.tunercat.com .To answer your other question does anyone know what all this means ? We are working on it. If you should find more info --please post it here. If it helps any , after you do several logs and read some of this info, it starts to fall into place for you....Hope this helps some..

srat110

Let try to answer your question. Maybe this thread will become a help post for others.

I'll start with some prliminary things and see if they make since. If someone feels I'm incorrect we can edit the posts and update as needed. BTY, I have an EE degree, but now do IT support and programing for an insurance company. I also have an Associates degree in ElectroMechanical Technology. Cars are one of my loves, after my family of course..

For starters, while I like to look at the Raw Data, it is much easier to understand the sensor data since it has been converted into hunman language. You can log both type in the log mode.

It is also very helpful if you get a copy of ALDLView. https://www.fiero.nl/download/ALDLViewSetup0.1-1.exe
With View you can look at one item, several items, and lock them together to get an understanding of how they relate to each other. You can also zoom in to look at a part of the timeline.
Here is a screen shot from View of a run I made this week. This is a 1/3 of a log viewing the BLM, Speed, and Map sensors.
The scale on the left is speed, the bottom is time. (Hint: left scale display is based on the last value you pick)

The speed is in Red and shows a fairly constant run at 55 mph. Yellow is the BLM valuve, and Green is the Map sensor.
I'm using these as an example of how you can compare values to determine what is going on.

Lets start with the MAP signal. (GREEN)
As you can see as I started to acc. up to 55 the Map reading increases since the throttle is opening and Map pressure goes up. You can also read that as an increase in engine load. This road was rolling hills and you can see how the map signal show the up and down as load increases and decreases going over hills holding a constant speed. Then shortly before the speed starts to drop off for a stop sign, the Map goes to almost 0.(time 125-150) This is because there was a long hill dropping down to a flat bottom and then a stop sign. You can see the engine load is gone while coasting down the hill still at 55. Jumps up as the speed is maintained on the flat,(150-165) had to continue slowing for a train, and then continue to the stop sign. (165-210)
Humm did I not come to a full stop!

BLM (Yellow)
Block Learn Mode as stated in the thread above is a long term value added to the injector fuel table to correct for actual engine conditions vs what the table was setup for. The ECM averages and adjust this value adding it to the fuel table values, the end results is that the INT signal should stay around 128 most of the time. As you can see on a steady run my BLM stays between 133 and 135. This would seem to indicate that my fuel table is a little lean for my engine so it is adding some time to the injector pulse to incease fuel to make the mix a little richer.
My engine only has 50K on it, I don't know if it always ran this way or has changed over time to need more fuel due to small air leaks etc. If I had added the INT signal to this view you would see that the INT bounces around 128 all the time.
The BLM determines an average fuel correction over a longer time period. So notice when coasting the need for additonal fuel is not needed and in fact additional fuel pulse width is taken away (148) since you are coasting, but when the throttle reopens it goes right back to where it was since the time it was leaned was very short and did not affect the average. (150-160)

Now back to your question of running rich/lean. First you can see what the O2 value does over a period of time. As said, the sample rate is not fast enough to look at it over a short period, but over a longer time you can get an idea of if you average below or above .5 volts. A better way is shown above, the BLM is a very good indicator, but you have to look at what is normal, and not a short time period. You may have noticed the BLM tab in WinALDL, you can use this to determine what the BLM value does over the rpm range vs the map value (load).

Hope this makes since and is helpful. As 3800SuperFast said, we're doing a tag team thing as we learn what's what and hope to share this information to everyone.

[This message has been edited by Dodgerunner (edited 01-02-2006).]

Heres one dodgerunner took including the 02 sensor input along with a explanation of whats going on. It lets you see and understand whats going on while your driving and logging data , I found this to be very helpfull in understanding the winaldl along with why your values change, this is helping me even more now as I`m starting to log more driving time under different loads, drive times and so on. I will be posting my results soon.

http://us.share.geocities.com/jeffhaun2/55mph_int_o2_blm.bmp

p.s. please use your magnifier to get the full view

Look at the 55mph graph.
The blue line is the O2 signal. It cycles like normal. If it is working correctly it is saying that the exhaust is cycling rich/lean just like it should. If the exhaust was truely lean the voltage would stay very low. This segment of the data is taken while I drove a constant 55 down the county road from my area. I picked this because a constant speed should be the best place to take a reading since the system should be able to adapt due to low delta input.
By the way the scale is for the INT signal.
The red is the INT. As the engine adjust to the constant speed it starts to settle in around 128 where it should. This is good.
The last is the Yellow BLM. The BLM is suppose to settle in at a set value under stable conditions. It does even though it is at 136. So it is saying in order for the INT to stay at normal (128) it needs to add additional fuel to the table values. This indicates that the prom fuel table could be adjusted up some but is working correctly.

[This message has been edited by 3800superfast (edited 01-02-2006).]

Thanks Guys, Good info. Keep it coming as you progress. I would like to get a set of values established for my car as a reference point for future diagnosis and upgrades, but I need to learn what to look for. Starting to get some idea of what I'm looking at here, but the "I get it now" bell hasn't rung. Where can I get a copy of ALDLview?

+'s all around

I edited a link to ALDLView in my post above.

Thanks Dodgerunner

I have some files on my laptop I logged back when I first got winALDL working. I'll have to go play with this and see if I can tell whats going on.

I spent alittle time late this afternoon playing with a MSD digital6 box. I wired it in to test it then removed it so I can figure out the best way of mounting and routing of wires. Once I get this done, will the msd box have any effects on the readings in winALDL?

Just a little more on how the O2 sensor is used in the Fiero. The type of O2 sensor used is a "narrow band" type, so the sensor is used as a rich-lean switch rather than to actually measure the amount of O2 content in the exhaust. Basically, the ECM drives the mixture rich, the O2 sensor picks this up and produces a rich signal, wherupon the ECM commands the mixture lean. The sensor sees this and produced a lean signal, then the process repeats. The ECM looks at the average time the mixture is rich and is lean, then adjusts the injector signal accordingly.

JazzMan

so would that be why my O2 sensor log looks like I'm flunking a polygraph?

BTW, how do you capture sceenshots of the ALDLview graphs?

quote Originally posted by srat110: so would that be why my O2 sensor log looks like I'm flunking a polygraph?

Yep, and it's also why the ALDL O2 data is not particularly useful. The switch rate from rich to lean runs on average 2-3 times a second, but the data refresh rate from the ALDL link is only about 1.8 seconds or so, so each time the O2 sensor voltage is reported via the ALDL data stream it's just a random sample from either the rich or the lean side.

The ECM actually operates faster internally, which is why the BLM is very useful since it reports what the ECM is doing to keep the mixture at stoich.

JazzMan

Jazzman is absolutely correct, what I ment was that if the O2 was staying lean or rich much of the time it could indicate some type of failure or problem. What that problem could be would have to be determined by other indicators or test.
Could be many things. Stuck injector, bad O2, bad ecm just to name a few.

As far at screen shots you have a couple choices. You can download software just for screen shots. Many are available on cnet.com. Just do a search with "screen capture" . Here is one that got good reviews and is free.
http://www.download.com/Screen-Print-Capture-32/3000-2384_4-10188787.html?tag=lst-0-5

Or just use Windows Paint. Have paint running while you have winaldl running and as the front screen. ( called having the "focus" on winaldl in windows speak) then hold down the Shift key and press the PrtSrn key. This puts the image of the screen on your clipboard. Switch to paint and click Edit and then paste. You should see your screen pasted into paint.

You want to reduce it to just part of the screen use the Select tool in the tool box to frame the area you want, do Edit and Cut, (this puts it into the clipboard) do File and New, don't save you current image, then paste the clipboard in again and save.

You can also use paint to correct pictures to post on PFF. Quickly this is what you do. Sorry I won't go into details.

Do a SaveAs and change the format of the image to JPEG.
You horizontal pixels can't be over 640 so
click Image - Attributes click pixels and see what the horz is at.
If to high you can scale the image down using Stretch/Skew under image and reduce the size
by changing the Horz and Vert to something like 75%.
Recheck the attributes and repeat if more is needed.
When done resave the file and upload per the PIP instructions at the bottom of the PFF home page.

[This message has been edited by Dodgerunner (edited 01-03-2006).]

Thanks Again Dodgerunner. You too Jazz.

So then is my A/F ratio guage gonna be pretty much worthless when I hook it up to this O2 sensor?

I think I need to go log some new data. And probably do more specific logs like you did driving at a constant speed and maybe do some strictly logging acceleration in 2nd or maybe 3rd gear.

[This message has been edited by srat110 (edited 01-03-2006).]

quote Originally posted by srat110: Thanks Again Dodgerunner. You too Jazz. So then is my A/F ratio guage gonna be pretty much worthless when I hook it up to this O2 sensor?

An A/F ratio guage hooked directly up to the O2 sensor is usefull because you can watch it switch in real time and full speed. The O2 sensor voltage is extremely non-linear with mixture, so other than seeing if it's rich or lean the actual ratio is going to be meaningless. That's what WB O2 sensors are for. You can also tell if the mixture is stuck lean or rich, as well as switching slowly, or spending more time rich than lean, or vice versa. BTW, the Fiero has an A/F ratio display already built into it. We all know that if you ground the diagnostic connector with the engine off and the key in RUN that the check engine light flashes out stored trouble codes, but what many don't know is that if you ground the same terminal with the engine running then the check engine light switches on and off in time with the O2 sensor rich/lean status. If the light is not flashing that means that the O2 sensor isn't responding, if the light spends more time on tha off, or vice-versa, that indicates a rich or lean problem, and if the on/off cycle is slower than 2-3 times a second then that indicates a slow or faulty O2 sensor.

I personally use my Fluke 87 series meter in high-impedence mode to monitor the O2 sensor voltage at the ECM connector, with the display set on averaging. This shows me the real time average O2 sensor voltage, hopefully around 450mV, and the analog "pointer" shows the switching duty cycle.

JazzMan

[This message has been edited by JazzMan (edited 01-03-2006).]

You know it's a shame I can't + you guys more than once. Just learn more every time I check this thread.

I would like to get back to the reason this thread was started and try to get some good numbers and graphs so armatures like myself can learn to use winALDL and other programs to their potential. As soon as I get a chance to log some new data I'll start posting stuff so maybe as a hands on kinda thing you guys can explain it us. kind of like "ALDL for Dummies". I'd buy it.

Another tip. Thanks to 3800superfast for asking this question.

If you want to look at the log files and open them in a word processor program the columns don't line up so it is realy hard to view the data.

If you open the file in MS Excel all the columns display nice and straight.

Don't have Excel you say... Well your in luck. There are groups that don't really like the fact that the big El-gate-o (MicroSlush)
has the market cornered for Office products. To that end you can download a "Office" replacement for free that does almost everything that MS Office does. Yes that's right FREE!

You do want to have a faster connection since the download is about 80Meg.
Just goto www.Openoffice.org and the download is right there.
You only have to tell them if you want to help with new ideas or fixes, but you don't even have to do that.
The install gives you the equal of Excel, Word, PowerPoint, Paint, and Database. The name are just changed to protect the ...... well you know...

Enjoy

DR

[This message has been edited by Dodgerunner (edited 01-03-2006).]

Ok, so today I got my ALDL cable hooked up and did some logging. First I logged the car idling, then did some 55pmh cruising, then logged a 2k to 5k run in 2nd, then a normal take off from a stop light up to 55mph, then a 2nd and 3rd gear run from a highway exit, then logged the idle again when I got home. Each time I logged both raw and sensor data. Anyone here willing to look at the logs and help me understand whats going on and what to look for?

quote Originally posted by srat110: Ok, so today I got my ALDL cable hooked up and did some logging. First I logged the car idling, then did some 55pmh cruising, then logged a 2k to 5k run in 2nd, then a normal take off from a stop light up to 55mph, then a 2nd and 3rd gear run from a highway exit, then logged the idle again when I got home. Each time I logged both raw and sensor data. Anyone here willing to look at the logs and help me understand whats going on and what to look for?

I`ll take a look for you...................Check your PM`s..................

OK so I finaly got the cable and software to work and logged my first data dump. I would like to get a better understanding of the info I see and how I can use it to check my cars out. I have two 1987 GT V6 autos, with a vin differance of 52, so they should be twins, however one has 108k and the other 180k, one is running smooth at 1000rpm (after me working on it) and the other is at 1500rpm.

So I have a good starting point, all I need to find out is what should the base line be for an up to temp car for factory specs.

quote Originally posted by VenturaFiero: So I have a good starting point, all I need to find out is what should the base line be for an up to temp car for factory specs.

that's the whole reason i started this thread. i want to know what the norms are.

Hi, If you read the very long articale above that 2000RagTop posted , it will explain how most all this works with the winaldl. The values change constantly the minute you start your car, Dodgerunner, srat110 and I have found its best to get your logs while doing a 55mph run/log , fully warm engine. I have posted 3 logs to look at above, and labled what was going on, ex: _reg_temp_idle. ,at2000rpmswarm.--thats the engine at normal temp at idle, the other one is normal temp holding the idle at 2000rpms---if you compare them you can see how your values change. Ex: check the CT (coolant temp) IAC (idle air control), and especially your Int (Intergrator) & blm (Block Learn Mode) The long articale goes into length how all this effects what your engine is doing. I`m not positive , but I don`t think there is a* winaldl base*---or *perfect chart* to compare your logs to. If your having a problem with your for lights diming for example, you may want to see what your voltage is showing, when you run your log and discover that your volts are showing 10.9 . instead of 14.0--14.2 , you have pin pointed the problem. If your car is idling wrong --you may want to see what values are showing on your 02-sensor, tps, iac, then check that against what the service manual or another source is showing to be the norm under the current running conditions that your engine/log is showing through the winaldl. Does this help any ?? If not please keep posting, thats why we tried to keep the post running, so anyone that was interested could understand winaldl..

[This message has been edited by 3800superfast (edited 02-17-2006).]

So are we going to get a central point for all the data dumps, so that we can compile a general base line for the group?

If so I am willing to help, just let me know how we should layout the info? i.e. tests at 55 mph for 5 min, from cold start for 5 min etc. Just a suggestion, as this is the best info I have found for this and its in easy terms, that people like me can understand.

OK, I like pictures (their worth a 1000 words right) Anyway I'll throw out this idea. It is not a simple idea, but we should not need a lot of these other than for a few engine configurations.
This data is from my 88GT with 50K miles on it. Run and idles great. These are my logs for a few of the more important values.

If this format is of interest we could decide what values would be the most use for someone having problems.
I post these as a starting point for discussion not what is right or wrong. I suggest when we decide what we want to do we start a new thread and move the good info from this thread at that time and maybe make it a sticky post.
I combined these value views since they have relative vertical scales. I.E. INT and BLM have the same values.
The first is over too long of time (12min) the second set is shorter 2 span taken from the 12 min log and would be much more helpfull and less confusing.

The first set are a 12 min. log. 55mph, 195* They are Speed vs Map..........INT vs BLM .......... BPW...

This set is is a 2 min. section of log 55mph 195*

Interesting that map and tps follow each other so well at a constant speed. Could be useful.

[This message has been edited by Dodgerunner (edited 02-17-2006).]

OK so here is my one car, 1987 GT V6 from cold up to temp, stops and hitting the gas, smooth run all in one. I have code 24 and no readings on the software or the dash. Need to find out what is the problem. Any way have a look and let me know what we think.

Have to find out how to change the saved file to Jpg as gif will not work

I am not sure on what I am reading with these files so some pointers would be great. Ride time ~ 10 min

[This message has been edited by VenturaFiero (edited 02-20-2006).]

quote Originally posted by VenturaFiero: OK so here is my one car, 1987 GT V6 from cold up to temp, stops and hitting the gas, smooth run all in one. I have code 24 and no readings on the software or the dash. Need to find out what is the problem. Any way have a look and let me know what we think. Have to find out how to change the saved file to Jpg as gif will not work I am not sure on what I am reading with these files so some pointers would be great. Ride time ~ 10 min

Here`s your--- ECM Trouble Codes--its on the home forum page ::

page---https://www.fiero.nl/cgi-bin/main.cgi?ECMCodes

Code 24====Vehicle Speed Sensor
Code 24 indicates a problem with the VSS (ECM does not receive any speed pulses while driving).

Make sure all your cables are hooked up wit the 10ohm resistor in place, check to see if you have choosen the correct ecm # in your configuration screen in winaldl program. Choose US not metric. In the lower part of the data log or most any other screen in winaldl --you`ll see a average box, choose the widest avg to start with. If you want to capture a screen --ex: your raw sensor screen, just hit the print screen button on your key-pad, then save as: Allthough you won`t be able to run it through Win-View , its nice to have on desktop or elsewhere for comparison. After you get the software correct & working, the logs will not just appear on your desktop, go to my computer, go to program files next, when that opens find the winaldl folder, double click, it will open with your dated and timed logs..... I usually throw mine on the desktop, then open Microsoft Worksheet, then import the log from desktop into a new spread sheet, go through the columns and rows with trash or odd #`s and values that don`t make any sence, delete these rows and columns, get rid of any zeros or data that wasn`t taken from your run, these will have no values in the columns & rows. Once thats cleared out, you can read it better in spread sheet or excell (doesn`t matter) , then take that corected log and open it in Win-View--you will end up wiith graphs like Dodgerunner has above Hope this helps some..........

VenturaFiero

There are lots of programs you can use to convert gif or bmp to jpg's
Everyone has one on their system that will work and that is Windows Paint.
If you open the image in paint you can resize the image and crop the image then save it as a jpg.

To resize or scale click the IMAGE menu item and choose Stretch/Skew and in Stretch change the % to less than 100 and it will resize the image. You can play with it and get a feel for how much you can do it an still look good.

If my image is close to the right size, I use the Attributes option under Image to crop the image to the 640 max that PIP will allow for uploads. In Attributes choose pixels for the units and then you can enter 640 for the width to clip off the right size of the image if your close and just need to trim a little to get to 640.

On all of these if you don't like that you did just immediately click the EDIT / UNDO to revert back and try again.

When your done correcting the image do a Save As and Change the Save As Typer to JPEG and save to your location. NOTE: I usually save the image as a JPEG and then do my editing since it changes the image somewhat then converted to a JPEG. You will see that the colors do change some.

[This message has been edited by Dodgerunner (edited 02-20-2006).]

Thanks for the info, this is just a test, as I saved the view through the ALDL view program which only give the graph.

BPW chart

INT BLM chart

MAP TPS chart

RPM MAP chart

The cables and software are correct, just have a problem with the Speed sensor/ code 24 before setting up the cable and software. So I will have to check my connections as I had the engine out and after putting it back in the speed gauge has not worked.

I hope that the group comes back and helps review the data. Anyway did some more data collection and put this together.

Car two was hot and has several codes which show up in the tables, car one only has one code and was cold when the readings was taken. Key turned but not started as Buddycraigg had done on his car.

quote Originally posted by VenturaFiero: I hope that the group comes back and helps review the data. Anyway did some more data collection and put this together. Car two was hot and has several codes which show up in the tables, car one only has one code and was cold when the readings was taken. Key turned but not started as Buddycraigg had done on his car.

VenturaFiero, did you look here : https://www.fiero.nl/cgi-bin/main.cgi?ECMCodes, its telling you the problems with the car--via--the cars ecm.

Code 32 EGR Vacuum Control
Code 32 is by far the most commonly encountered trouble code. The most common cause for this trouble code is a leak in the EGR vacuum lines. This code is often disregarded since a malfunctioning EGR system seldomly has any effect on the car's driveability, and only on the engine's emissions. It's also tremendously difficult to diagnose the problem. If your car passes emission tests and is otherwise running ok, it's often not worth the trouble trying to find the problem.

Code 33 Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) Sensor
The ECM will set code 33 when a problem with the MAP sensor is detected (unusual low vacuum/high pressure). Check the vacuum hoses from the MAP sensor. Check all connections and replace the MAP sensor if necessary.

Code 35 Idle Speed Error
The ECM will set code 35 when the engine speed is 75 RPM above or below the correct idle with closed throttle. This condition must be met for at least 45 seconds before the code is set. If idle speed is too high, check for vacuum leaks. If idle speed varies up and down, your engine might be running too lean (high air/fuel ratio). Check for low fuel pressure or water in fuel. If idle speed is too low, your engine might be running too rich (low air/fuel ration). Check for high fuel pressure or leaking/sticking injectors. Also, check all connections to the IAC and replace the IAC if necessary.

To get correct data you need to take logs---just turning the key and running the winaldl isn`t really doing any good. On your int & blm graph --its all over the board--way to high--way to low. Then when you took it to excel or ?? it appears with-in range--but not a long enough run to tell anything. The best data is when engine is at normal operating temp, 20-30 minute runs/logs at around 55mph, flat road (if possible) .. You may want to fix your codes first --I would start with code 33, then log again---35 might be caused by 33. Don`t worry about 32 right now. See what you come up with..... Also are you removing the trash from the spread sheet ?? If not the values & #`s will be all over the place on your logs and graphs---not to confuse with the codes you have --are a real problem with your engine---not the winaldl--seeing they came from the ecm....

Yey!!! thanks Superfast, just getting stuff together, I know that I have to fix the codes on car number two, and its 1500 rpm, so just using the info to see if it help detect the problem as I know that I have a problems, smells of gas (running rich) etc test bed for car running out of spec.

Car one is at 1000 rpm after I had gone in and fixed the vacum lines and cleaned out the system runs well just have the code 24 to work through.

"To get correct data you need to take logs---just turning the key and running the winaldl isn`t really doing any good." I agree with your statement, however would this be a very low level base line, and looks like it tells the defferance between the diff cars? Yes/No

I am not tied to any thing that I had done, just what to learn... So please keep kicking me around with your input, thanks