quote Originally posted by AJxtcman: I have a question that came to mind. The Oregon DEQ standards for an engine swap. I remember reading information on installing a newer engine in an older car you had a choice of standards. I think I read this after I was in Wisconsin. First standard was meet the spec for the car as it left the factory. Second was meet the powertrain specs. In Wisconsin the Emissions test for a 96 and newer is a plug in OBD check. I could make this work, but I will need to add post O2 sensors. If I need to make it work for a Fiero I will need to add an EGR valve or it will not pass.

In Wisconsin, we also have the option of registerig a car to be stored in another county, and if that county doesn't have emission testing, you dont have to get your car sniffed. I've used that for all my cars.

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1986GT 4-speed DOHC and 1987GT Auto

In Oregon, for gas motors, all you have to do is do the swap with a motor that is the same year or newer than your registered vehicle. They test you for a cat if your car came with a cat. Test you for decibles regarding noise. Test you for emissions with a sniff test. They did away with the dyno testing.

I passed Oregon DEQ with my 3800 SC motor with no EGR system functioning with headers and a cat with one 02 sensor. I expect the N* V8 will be the same.

I'd say that if Shelby Series 1 passed emissions without the EGR activated, along with its other emissions configuration, then it would do so in our situation.

What do you think?

wrong thread...

[This message has been edited by FieroWannaBe (edited 02-18-2008).]

Hey guy's I have been busy getting ready to be married, so when I get back in a week I will finish up and mail out the setups.

AJ. Congratulations!

I hope you have a blast and best friend the rest of your days.

Alright, so I'm curious...what exactly am I buying, and at what price? Really, I have the ECM and all I require is the necessary operating system to run the N* off of it. To clarify, I have in my possession a factory GM 12200411 ECM removed from a 2002 C5 Corvette and the 80-pin connector pigtails. What can you do for me? Is there any way that I might be able to ship you my ECM and you can reprogram it as necessary to run the N* and ship it back with the tuning software? Also, how are you getting a VIN into these ECMs? Are you just using a dummy VIN from a manual transmission-equipped LS1 C5 to get the correct OS on it, or is this step totally over-ridden by the custom OS utilized on these ECMs?

Another semi-related question; how does the software interface with the ECM, via the OBDII port? How does that get interfaced with the laptop? Sorry for all of the questions, I just want to make sure I know exactly what I'm getting, and that I'll be able to do what I wish with it.

quote Originally posted by 1986 Fiero GT: Alright, so I'm curious...what exactly am I buying, and at what price? Really, I have the ECM and all I require is the necessary operating system to run the N* off of it. To clarify, I have in my possession a factory GM 12200411 ECM removed from a 2002 C5 Corvette and the 80-pin connector pigtails. What can you do for me? Is there any way that I might be able to ship you my ECM and you can reprogram it as necessary to run the N* and ship it back with the tuning software? Also, how are you getting a VIN into these ECMs? Are you just using a dummy VIN from a manual transmission-equipped LS1 C5 to get the correct OS on it, or is this step totally over-ridden by the custom OS utilized on these ECMs? Another semi-related question; how does the software interface with the ECM, via the OBDII port? How does that get interfaced with the laptop? Sorry for all of the questions, I just want to make sure I know exactly what I'm getting, and that I'll be able to do what I wish with it.

WTF happened to my post!
I hate using that thing on my laptop that they call a mouse pad. GRRRRRRR.
I was in Vegas and all I had was my laptop.
OK
I think a 411 is the same. I can use your VIN if you would like. I mean the one for your Fiero. It doesn't matter to me.

I have been running at -25% or more on my fuel trim on the PCM setup for a 4.6L
That would make it rich. I am running a stock fuel pressure regulator.
I have been running the stock 96 to 99 MAF and I have been thinking it was the problem. I have an auto and the PCM is setup for a Man trans. The car was stalling out when comming to a stop at times. No clutch pedal switch input also. I was thinking that the MAF had something to do with the stalling also.

I hooked up a 00 to 05 LS1 MAF. It also fits a 00 to 05 FWD Northstar.

My fuel trim dropped down to -15%. The car stalled a few times at the first couple of stops, but I had the PCM disconnected and I did not relearn idle.

Then I started thinking Hmmmm. This program that was sent to me is for the BIG cam motors.
I have that covered now.

Next thing is I will need to now how you want to mount the MAF.
I can build a few like mine.
If you are going to locate it away from the T-Body (like an LS1 or the later Northstar's) I will need to know how long to make the connector lead.

Headed to the dyno

I am trying this inline connector

Anything new???

[This message has been edited by BMTFIERO (edited 04-27-2008).]

So have we successfully gotten this setup to function with the '00+ FWD N*s?

Hello AJ,
What 1986 Fiero GT said:
Any news on the '00+ N* w/manual trans?

I got my hands on a low mile '00 4.6L N*
I am getting ready to do this swap and like what you have done.
I am very interested getting your set up if you have it working.

Scott

Hi AJ, my name is Ray, and I am doing a N* Fiero. My car had a 3.4l DOHC that I did myself, and I blew the tranny up. After pulling it out, I decided that instead of doing the turbo kit, I would go for a N*. I found a local low mileage, timeserted motor that I'll be installing over the coming weeks. I know you don't give a rat's a$$ about my story, just spilling it so you do not discount me as another dreamer who couldn't afford your services if they took out a second mortgage.

Now, I'm going to be straightforward. Please sell me on spending the $500 for your ECU. Please correct me if I'm wrong here, because seems to me, I can do what I've done for every other Fiero swap. Swap the engine, use the factory harness and PCM for the N*, and have it tuned by someone to get rid of the EGR, 2-3 extra O2 sensors, auto transmission info, etc. This is what I did, successfully, on my 3.4 swap, and a friend's 3800. So my question to you is, what advantage to a near stock engine does your PCM offer?

The car is a 88GT, factory Getrag 5-speed. The engine is a 96-99, 275hp. It will be mostly, if not completely, stock.

Thank you, in advance, for answering my questions and explaining to me the differences that will affect me between the N* PCM and the LS1 PCM.

bump for updates!

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'88 Coupe (extensive mods underway)
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/086359.html

major diff in the northstar CPU and the LS1
is the northstar CPU is loaded with EXTRAS
saddly you doNOT want or need them
it has stuff to control anti-spin ABS climate control pass key and auto trans control
even the anti-theft radio BS
and nobody has figured out how to get all that EXTRA stuff turned off { HACKED }
so if the inputs donot read the right signals the CPU goes into low power limp home mode
and the LS1 has less stuff [EXTRAS} built in and has been hacked to turn off most of the junk
plus the LS1 CPU canbe tuned

not to say the northstar CPU can not be used [if you like a challenge]
but the LS1 CPU work is more known and ready to go NOW

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Question wonder and be wierd
are you kind?

quote Originally posted by 1986 Fiero GT: Hmm...this may not work as well as I had thought then. I'll ask my question a different way, you mentioned this is an LSx PCM...does this mean it's the same as used in, for example a C5 'Vette, or a newer Z28, just reprogrammed to run a N*?

quote Originally posted by AJxtcman: It is the same PCM used in all Gen III/LS1 cars and trucks in 1999. Yes the same PCM was used up to 02 I believe

What he's really asking is: "What kind of vehicle do you tell your scan tool that you're scanning in order to talk to this computer?"

I'm curious about that also.

I'm assuming that you're using the 0411 PCM. Is that correct?

What tuning software do you use with this program? Is there a mask ID for the code, as with OBDI programs?

AJ, any updates on the status and availability of the LS1 PCM for the 96-99 Northstar?

What is the latest? Any progress on the harness and the ECU?
JG

HEY AJ, I need this back, NOW!

yeah i want to see where this goes! c'mon AJ

I simply don't have the time.

As soon as I get my house on the market I can take time to breath and then Get this handled.

I have two homes. I have two house payments and you want me to stop working on my house to finish this? It seems that the first one has an idling issue.

I Have sent you parts at no cost. I have purchased parts for you, sent them to you and I have not asked for payment for them. I talked to you a while back and explained the situation and you told me that I was the only option and you could wait.
The house is getting closer.

I haven't seen my wife since August.

You will have to wait.

Please don't take this wrong, but you might want to give AJ a break for three reasons:

1) Its not easy to have two house payments in this housing market;
2) Its not fun to be away from your woman while working in another city and having to live out of boxes. Try to set up a second shop space and find all your tools to work on a car let alone a N*;
3) He's currently working on my LS1. If your patient enough, the bugs that may be in my LS1 N* set-up won't be in yours if you give AJ the freedom to do good work. That way your up and running with no issues. I'm sure AJ wants it to be right before he sends off another one.

Situation understood - a fully worked out LS1 PCM for the N* is worth waiting for.

Good luck with selling your house.

Thanks for the update AJ Sounds like you never stop working.

I am the new guy that emailed you last week with the 02 northstar. I won't need to worry about the computer till my install is done which may not be till late spring 2009.

Meanwhile does anyone know any good places to go to learn how to program the LS1 computer. I would like to learn as much as I can about it. Maybe do my own as the line to have AJ do it is long. No offense To AJ I am just a do it myself kind of guy. I have no problem buying a setup from you. So instead of harping on AJ guys maybe we should learn it ourselves. Then when we upgrade our cars northstar by changing cams or adding boost we will know what to do even if we have AJ do it.


ScottSss

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Home of 3 1/2 Fieros, a 900HP AWD S!0, a 1967 Pontiac Catalina Convertable, a Chevy Avalanche and lots of misc GM parts.

quote Originally posted by ScottSss: Thanks for the update AJ Sounds like you never stop working. I am the new guy that emailed you last week with the 02 northstar. I won't need to worry about the computer till my install is done which may not be till late spring 2009. Meanwhile does anyone know any good places to go to learn how to program the LS1 computer. I would like to learn as much as I can about it. Maybe do my own as the line to have AJ do it is long. No offense To AJ I am just a do it myself kind of guy. I have no problem buying a setup from you. So instead of harping on AJ guys maybe we should learn it ourselves. Then when we upgrade our cars northstar by changing cams or adding boost we will know what to do even if we have AJ do it. ScottSss

Monodax.

Omnituner.com

LS1Tech

and a 1000 or so more

[This message has been edited by AJxtcman (edited 11-14-2008).]

i saw that this thread wasnt seen in a while so trying to bring back up

i have a 2000 firebird v6 and the only swaps i can find are ls? swaps so i am very interested in this pcm ecm setup as i want a northstar in my car
questions are

when scanned what info do i give them so the tool can sync properly
when i take to get emissions tested for tx state inspection what info do i need to give them
is it still obd2 or obd1 i kn ow you have said it but kind of confused
can you make the egr work and all the other emissions stuff so it passes
what engine harness are you using the ls1 or N*
and with the tuning software can i add and delete things as i go like abs egr and other things that you disable for fiero since my car is newer and has those things

I hope that the LS1 PCM works out for your N* swap. The N* has been put into boats and several Fieros that I know of. PBJ (Pete) and Jon (Fieroaddiction) have both done N* swaps but if I remember correctly both were stick swaps and they used an aftermarket ECM like the Accel. I recall Jon telling me that the N* PCM's had too many issues to work around so he settled on using an aftermarket unit.
FAST, Haltech & GM sell stand alone ECM'S and harnesses that could be used for engine management without the worry of all the interface stuff. I'm sure that you get it running but I couldn't imagine a N* swap with 4T80eHD management as well. Good luck.

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87GT - 3800SC Series III engine, 3.4" Pulley, N* TB, LS1 MAF, Flotech Exhaust Autolite 104's Custom CAI 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
87GT - 3.4L Turbocharged engine, modified TH125H
" I'M ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

quote Originally posted by newfierokid: i saw that this thread wasnt seen in a while so trying to bring back up i have a 2000 firebird v6 and the only swaps i can find are ls? swaps so i am very interested in this pcm ecm setup as i want a northstar in my car questions are when scanned what info do i give them so the tool can sync properly when i take to get emissions tested for tx state inspection what info do i need to give them is it still obd2 or obd1 i kn ow you have said it but kind of confused can you make the egr work and all the other emissions stuff so it passes what engine harness are you using the ls1 or N* and with the tuning software can i add and delete things as i go like abs egr and other things that you disable for fiero since my car is newer and has those things

This was a GM setup and it was Emissions Certified for all 50 states.
This is not something I morphed together it is 100% GM.
Mating it to a Fiero is not that challenging either. I would just need to know certain info.
Mating this to a 99 or new GM car or truck would be very easy.


I am getting closer with my house and I owe Beast. I need to get his done first. I am hoping by the end of next month I will have the time to get his done and checked over one last time.

im mating the N* to my t-5 manual trans so no worries on the auto control

thanks for answering my questions im still deployed in Afghanistan so wont be doing the swap for at least another yr just doing all the research on installing with my free time here. what harness are you using the ls1 or N* sorry for asking again but i guess you forgot to answer last time and if you dont mind can you email me any wiring diagrams or info you might have so i can see what i might need to do to get it in my car. Nice thing is firebird came with ls1 so shouldnt be hard to get what i need done to it. one other thing what is keeping it from working on a 2000 up N*

Am I reading correctly that you want to put a Northstar in a Firebird? Why?

why not its a nice upgrade from the v6 and looks nice plus its unique i havnt found anyone else so far that has done it

ok i found a pcm and complete engine harness from a 99 ls1 camaro is that what i need

[This message has been edited by newfierokid (edited 12-08-2008).]

Because it's not going to be easy.

If you want to do this, your best starting point is the '05 ('04?) and newer RWD Northstar. You don't need to mix/match PCM's for that swap as that engine's computer has been hacked.

The FWD engines have their rather bulky waterpumps directly over the bellhousing. You'll have all kinds of packaging and fitment issues trying to squeeze that into an F-body. Even if you decide to change to a divorced electric waterpump, there's still expense and complexity required to make that adaptation.

You'll also have expense and complexity involved in simply mounting the engine in the chassis. You'll have to re-engineer the accessory drive because the FWD placement of the alternator and A/C compressor will very likely have interference issues in the F-body chassis. You'll have to do significant fab work to develop exhaust manifolds that work. The RWD Northstar parts may or may not work on the FWD engines. There were significant changes to the block and exhaust ports that may make the parts incompatible. You'll have to spend a lot of time (and potentially a few dollars) in research to figure out what, if anything, you can use.

The LS1 based engines bolt in and have MUCH more aftermarket support than the Northstar. Choosing an LS1 will make your swap go MUCH more quickly and easily and have more ability to grow performance afterward. Choosing to be different is all well and good, but in the interests of a quick, successful result with minimal frustration and a higher likelihood of staying in the car hobby afterward, I strongly recommend the LS1 over the Northstar.

For the record I have a Northstar Fiero. I like the engine, but deciding to swap it into an F-body is ENTIRELY a different decision that deciding to swap it into an P-body (Fiero). A lot of the factors that make it attractive for the Fiero do not apply or make it undesirable for an F-body.

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 12-09-2008).]

This is a LS1 PCM. It is 100% hacked.
TC2, Wester's, HP Tuners, and EFILive all offer software for it.

The 2000 to 2005 Cadillac PCM is about 50% hacked and every time I have time to spend on it I find more.

The 96 to 99 Cadillac PCM is about 10% hacked.

The reason to use an LS1 PCM on a Northstar in the first place is that the Northstar computer is only partially hacked. The E67 computers that use the 58X trigger wheels all use common software and have basically all been hacked already. I guess those are '06 and newer.

quote Originally posted by Will: The reason to use an LS1 PCM on a Northstar in the first place is that the Northstar computer is only partially hacked. The E67 computers that use the 58X trigger wheels all use common software and have basically all been hacked already. I guess those are '06 and newer.

The Northstar can be supported by
EFILive
HP Tuners
JET
The 1/2 of the problem is the Seed and Key and I don't need it!
They can't sell you the software to tune it without the Seed and Key

If anyone knows a GM tech that wants proof that I can change parameters. I will email them a TUNED bin file and they can load it!

Hey if anyone wants to step up and buy a Tech II or MDI and a TIS subscription I will do the same and send then a tuned file.
100% free

Take a look at these. Look at them in a Hex Editor and compare them.

Bin #425 Z/W rated

Bin #424 H rated

Free Hex Workshop 30 Trial
http://www.download.com/Hex...h&subj=dl&tag=button


This is what you are looking for


In Tunerpro you can search those bins for tables in Tools/ Advanced/ 3D Data Viewer.
Take a quick look at the bin 12581424.
Make a 3d table with the following data and it will show you a table that looks a bit like injector offset Vs battery voltage.

Address = D20B
Rows = 33
Cols = 15
16 bit

OR

INJECTOR OFFSET ADJUSTMENT ---- 0000CF2E --- Milliseconds ---- This is the injector offset used to account for injector dynamics due vacuum effects on the trapped sac volume fuel.

OR

INJ OFFSET --- 0000CF50 --- Milliseconds

OR

INJ SLOPE ---- 0000D52E --- Grams/Sec ---- Defines the slope of the injector versus on time.

'
'


Speed Rating ----- Hex
--- S --------- 00 53 00 5A
--- H --------- 80 61 80 68
--- Q --------- 80 45 80 4C


.

.

I have been loading Tuned files with the MDI. The MDI is going to take over for the Tech II.
This is a huge step. I now longer need a JET, TC, Wester's cable and I don't need to buy more licence's

You have no method to insert anything!
I found a method and I have been using it for a few years. I had stopped for awhile, but with some friend they got me back on track.
I was doing this (hex editing) on the 99 PCM's and messed a bunch up. I know how I messed them up now.

The easiest way is to Segment Swap the 2000 to 2005 PCM's. Hey It works. I did some work without segment swapping on these and never had an issue.

Nothing have really changed except I have tuned about 50 or more customers. Most of them don't want to be part of the Negativity.

This is very old



Sometimes I think "Its better to keep your mouth shut and let people think your an idiot rather than open it and remove all doubt..."

BTW I have the seed and key also.

Are you trying to refute what I said or agree with me?
The primary reason for switching to the LS1 PCM is for the '96-'99 engines for which the PCM is basically NOT hacked.
The '00-'04 Northstar PCM is partially hacked and the LS1 computer isn't applicable to that engine anyway.

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 12-09-2008).]

quote Originally posted by Will: Are you trying to refute what I said or agree with me? The primary reason for switching to the LS1 PCM is for the '96-'99 engines for which the PCM is basically NOT hacked. The '00-'04 Northstar PCM is partially hacked and the LS1 computer isn't applicable to that engine anyway.

The LS1 PCM will run them all up to 06.
GM only ran the LS1 PCM on a 98 and 99 engine with a Manual trans.
I don't know why you would want to spend all the time it would take to run it on a 2000 to 2005 when I have that all covered.