Bump to the top.
Good Luck
Gary

Have been working these evenings on the tune. Will do another test drive later tonight or tomorrow and see if something changes with minor adjustments but I'm not too optimistic.

Took it for a drive last night. I readjusted the TV, unplugged the TCC connector and put the regulator more or less to how it came. Still the same. It has no 2nd gear I feel like the 4th gear engages but above 45mphs. I see a drop of about 400-500 RPMs when that happens. Overall it feels weird. When I open the throttle revs go up some and feels like it doesn't move much. But that could be a result of my lean tune (running @ 14 afr on 1/2 throttle) and me being used to the huge torque of the V8 Fiero. I may have to ditch this car until July when I will have some time alone (wife traveling) to dedicate full time to it.

Did some fuel tune changes and took a quick spin today. Now the trany is slipping in all gears except 1st. I checked the fluid level and it seems fine. Just as a note I used the TH125 dip stick. I don't think there should be that much difference from a 4t60. Anyone knows? Now I'm really frustrated

Haven't been around lately but looking at your problems sounds like there is a sticking valvebody the governor could cause that sympton to but it sounds like the valve body is the problem.If it is a rebuild a possibility could be bad assembly of the drums etc . If you had a chance the drop the pan after install look for metal shavings and burnt oil if those are ok then there is an internal problem and will require a teardown.

If I have to drop the cradle again on this damn car for a trany issue next time it will go up with a Getrag. I only need the pedals, master and lines for that conversion as I have the rest.

Alex, would you say the t.v. cable has slack (loose)? Or would you call it tight, as you have it installed now?
Just curious.
Thanks Gary

quote Originally posted by Alex4mula: If I have to drop the cradle again on this damn car for a trany issue next time it will go up with a Getrag. I only need the pedals, master and lines for that conversion as I have the rest.

If you do that, CALL ME or send me a PM right away.
I'll come get the 4T60 and all the accessories with cash in hand.

quote Originally posted by Alex4mula: I checked the fluid level and it seems fine. Just as a note I used the TH125 dip stick. I don't think there should be that much difference from a 4t60. Anyone knows?

My 4T60 dipstick measures 21 3/8 inches from the tip to the base of the plastic handle (measured just the metal not the handle). I don't have the TH125 one anymore to compare. I doubt they are different but who knows. Would be nice if the problem was that simple.

How many quarts of fluid have you put in it?

Maybe there's light at the end if the tunnel...

theogre; The trany had ATF so it is hard to tell how much more it needed. I put like 4 qts. when it got to the full level on the TH125 stick.

ahawkman; My dipstick measures 18" (metal stick below base like you did). But how long is the pipe in the 4t60? If it is 3"+ taller than the TH125 then it may not make a difference. If it is just as tall as the TH125 then it should go deeper. Can you please measure the pipe? Also can you tell me the distance from the bottom of the stick to the top full hot line? Maybe I should just go to the yard and get one. Is the 4t60e version the same? Most (if not all) cars at the yard are 90s with the e version. Thanks all very much for the help.

TC holds about 3-4 by itself. If it wasn't running out of the trans w/o the dipstick, then it couldn't have had more than one or two in it. The whole system runs around 9.

If you do have enough fluid... You may have a filter that isn't sealed. That will cause a low fluid like condition in many units.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Alex4mula:

ahawkman; My dipstick measures 18" (metal stick below base like you did). But how long is the pipe in the 4t60? If it is 3"+ taller than the TH125 then it may not make a difference. If it is just as tall as the TH125 then it should go deeper. Can you please measure the pipe? Also can you tell me the distance from the bottom of the stick to the top full hot line? Maybe I should just go to the yard and get one. Is the 4t60e version the same? Most (if not all) cars at the yard are 90s with the e version. Thanks all very much for the help.

Alex4mula:
The pipe has a few bends but looks to be about 19 1/4 inches from the trans to the top of the pipe. On the stick from the tip to the full hot is 2 1/8. I found my old th125 pipe and stick in a box of old parts. Looks like the difference between the pipe and stick length on both the 4t60 and th125 is 2 1/8 inches. This may not be the problem after all. Wouldn't hurt to get a 4t60 pipe and stick to be sure though.

quote Originally posted by ahawkman: [QUOTE]Originally posted by Alex4mula: ahawkman; My dipstick measures 18" (metal stick below base like you did). But how long is the pipe in the 4t60? If it is 3"+ taller than the TH125 then it may not make a difference. If it is just as tall as the TH125 then it should go deeper. Can you please measure the pipe? Also can you tell me the distance from the bottom of the stick to the top full hot line? Maybe I should just go to the yard and get one. Is the 4t60e version the same? Most (if not all) cars at the yard are 90s with the e version. Thanks all very much for the help. Alex4mula: The pipe has a few bends but looks to be about 19 1/4 inches from the trans to the top of the pipe. On the stick from the tip to the full hot is 2 1/8. I found my old th125 pipe and stick in a box of old parts. Looks like the difference between the pipe and stick length on both the 4t60 and th125 is 2 1/8 inches. This may not be the problem after all. Wouldn't hurt to get a 4t60 pipe and stick to be sure though.

Thanks you very much. TH125 pipe is 15 1/2" to trans entry. So all relative to trans entry the math tells me that my hot mark should be 1/2" higher. So full would be about the second "L" on the picture above. But will that be enough low to cause my issues? I'll add a quart and do a final test drive before I drop the pan.

Trans dipsticks are not like engine dipsticks- that would be add a pint, not a quart. I doubt that's causing your shifting issues though. Mine is still doing it with plenty of ATF, and irrespective of TV cable adjustment position.

You and I might be in for some trans-dropping.

Before you toss the 4T60, remember that there are versions out there that are designed to handle a V8 (in Cadillac Allantes) and there are also versions designed to shift right in turbo 60 degree V6 applications (found in turbo grand prixs 89-90)

Alex the problem you are having is not trans fluid related at all but valvebody sticking, if you have access to another 4t60 you can exchange the valvebody but that is a toss up your best bet is to have the tranny refreshed and the valve body modded with a shift kit.

As for going with a manual tranny if you are into longevity you are better off with the 4t60 where you can apply power without worrying about it blowing up...if you need help with rebuilding the 4t60 send me a pm I have a few core that I am going to rebuild with shift kits.

[This message has been edited by gunslinger (edited 10-25-2008).]

Thanks gunslinnger. I think my only problem now is a sticky 1st to 2nd valve which is a common problem. Maybe for sitting so long.

Lates Update:
I went and adjusted the TV again and made the regulator tighter. Now everything is back to normal except 2nd of course. All the slip issues went away. All shifts feel fine and the TCC works fine. Driving in D with no 2nd I have to release the throtte for it to go into 3rd. So I may order the valve from the link I posted earlier and try to change it. Anhyone knows how involve will that be? I think I need to take off the side pan and for that the axle has to come out. I will try to take it off rocking the cradle rather than disconnecting everything again. Hope it works.

Hey Alex,

In order to get the the valve body you will have to take out the drivers side axle along with that side cover. It shouldnt be that big of a deal to change, probobly take you longer to drop the cradle to get to it.

Jason

I have a question on the 4T60, is the bell housing bolt pattern the same as a small block 350, would these be a direct bolt up or would an adapter plate be needed?

Thanks

Steve

quote Originally posted by fierohoho: I have a question on the 4T60, is the bell housing bolt pattern the same as a small block 350, would these be a direct bolt up or would an adapter plate be needed? Thanks Steve

Nope. It has the V6 pattern. You will need an adapter just like any other Fiero trany.

Hey Alex,
I dont know if you have any tranny books on the 440t4 so if you want me to make some copies of some pages of the valve body I can send them to you so you can get a idea of what your getting into to.

Jason

quote Originally posted by BrewCheese: Hey Alex, I dont know if you have any tranny books on the 440t4 so if you want me to make some copies of some pages of the valve body I can send them to you so you can get a idea of what your getting into to. Jason

That would be awesome. I'll PM you

did you get this figured out,mine had the same problem?took it in and the clutch pack for second are shot with less than 10 miles.the tv cable throw was off a little and the tranny shop said it wiped out second.i guess 2nd gear is a huge problem for these trans.mine is under warranty so thats the only good thing.good luck with yours,i have to drop the damn cradle again.
John

[This message has been edited by stryker (edited 06-10-2008).]

quote Originally posted by stryker: did you get this figured out,mine had the same problem?took it in and the clutch pack for second are shot with less than 10 miles.the tv cable throw was off a little and the tranny shop said it wiped out second.i guess 2nd gear is a huge problem for these trans.mine is under warranty so thats the only good thing.good luck with yours,i have to drop the damn cradle again. John

I'm still betting on the valve but who knows. I need to drop the pan and inspect the fluid/plug. I just ordered the valve to change it. It is only $14 so no big loss. But as comfortable a slush box is, if that doesn't solve it I'll convert it to a 5 speed as I mentioned earlier. The first time I drove it all gears shifted and worked fine except 2nd. When I started playing more with the TV is when I got into poor shifting problems. When I got it back right it shifted ok again. So that is why I suspect more a sticky 1st-2nd valve which is a common problem too.

Man you guys are really beginning to scare me. I'm almost ready to put the 4t60 in mine. Its from a 90 lumina which i had rebuilt. I noticed the color bands on your modulator are double black. I got all my brackets and stuff from a 4t60 tranny in a 91 olds custom cruiser wagon. The one in it was double red and i have to go back to see if there was a plunger in there. Alex did you ever figure out the deal with that plunger in the modulator hole? My lumina tranny had the non adj. w/ a plunger twice as long as the one you showed. My thread is https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/091761.html

[This message has been edited by hercimer01 (edited 06-19-2008).]

Any updates? Alex did you get this tranny to work?
Thanks Gary

Hey Alex.
Don't feel bad, I just got mine done and i don't have 3rd or 4th. And i had mine rebuilt.

What ever happened here? It sounds like 3 different guys had shifting problems after doing the 4 speed swap? Not very encouraging to others contemplating this swap!

very interesting. im faving this one for when i decide to bite down and get an auto fiero.

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1987 Fiero GT built by my brother, merlot566jka, 3500 LX9 from 06 Malibu, WOT-TECH.com 1280 grind stage 3 cam, LS6 valve springs, 1227730 ECM conversion, Darrel Morse solid aluminum cradle mounts, Truleo headers modified to fit the 3500, 36# inectors, 70mm 4.3 throttle body adapted to 3500 intake, ported heads, upper and lower intakes, lightly polished, tcemotorsports.com crank trigger wheel, CenterForce dual friction clutch, Flowtech Afterburner muffler, 2.5" piping, cat deleted, EGR deleted, SinisterPerformance tuning, C6 Corvette exhaust tips. projected to be 35 MPG with a guesstimate of 250 hp at the motor

You should never run in gear when the wheels are hanging. The angle that the axles hang at is at the extreme end of the travel. Running them in that position can damage the axle and most often it rips the boots to shreds. The suspension on a transverse mounted powertrain MUST be compressed before you hit the throttle.
Sorry that we could get this info to you sooner

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87GT - 3800SC Series III engine, 3.4" Pulley, N* TB, LS1 MAF, Flotech Exhaust Autolite 104's Custom CAI 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
87GT - 3.4L Turbocharged engine, modified TH125H
" I'M ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

quote Originally posted by Ralphy Boy: What ever happened here? It sounds like 3 different guys had shifting problems after doing the 4 speed swap? Not very encouraging to others contemplating this swap!

I just finished rebuilding a 4T60 recently that was just rebuilt that was slipping 2nd and 3rd a nd kept rev ving so after taking it apart I found that the snapring that holds the drum broke and caused it to not shift .

I had to replace the drum and that corrected the problem so chances are the drum is damaged from the ring flying these tranny are notorious for that when rebuilt and care is not taken to see that the clip is fully locked in .

I haven't done anything yet. But finally I finished fixing the oil leak in my other Fiero and replaced the timing belt in my SUV so finally (I hope!) now I have garage time to fix this car. In March it will be three years since it was parked

Any update?

quote Originally posted by Hudini: Any update?

My current plan is to put a stock drivetrain in this car and sell it. Main reason is after three years I haven't been able to find the time to keep up three cars and I don't see that changing. So I'll get rid of this to dedicate fully to the other two.

On a more positive note,
Four years ago, I bought a 87 coupe for less than $1,000 with an 88 Park Ave 3800, 4t60 and the ECM already installed. It worked when I bought it, except for the TCC, which was soon fixed. Still works perfect today.

For details, see https://www.fiero.nl/forum/F.../052684-1.html#p213.

[This message has been edited by 30+mpg (edited 06-02-2009).]

I'm in the process of doing a 4t60 swap with a 3.4 myself.

If anyone was wondering, here is a size comparison to a 4t60e and a 4t80e.


and people thought the 4t60 was big in the first post of the thread...

[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 07-28-2009).]

I'm also gearing up to maybe drop in a 4t60.
Thought my engine was knocking,but pretty sure it's my convertor or flywheel.
Sounds exactly like when I blew the center out of my vortec flywheel,except it happens at opposite times.
Vortec would rattle under load,this one rattles at idle and clears up under load.
I think it's got a messed up weight.

Also my reverse has been out for a few weeks,diagnosed a broken sun gear already.

I have another TH125 in a parts car,not sure if it runs (I would rebuild anyway)
But I would like to have the 4 speed because I drive highway sometimes and fast.
The no reverse doesn't bother me,but I would rather wait a few more months before killing this engine with high RPM's.

I did finally get mine right. It was sloppy rebuilds by the shop i used. This thread is what i used as a guide to get mine done, It is very accurate and helpful. I have used mine 60 miles a day as a daily driver for two years now (summer only) and its great. 100 MPH and you don't even hit 3000 RPM. I ended up removing the TCC relay and just used the brake pedal power and the ground from the ECM and haven't had any problems.I believe Alex's tranny was bad from sitting to long after it was rebuilt.

To hercimer01 i'm wanting to know what kind of gas mileage you're getting. What is your final drive and what motor are your using. Thanks.

[This message has been edited by go faster (edited 01-16-2011).]