2005 3800SC Series III, 1500 miles. Here's a couple of shots from the salvage yard before they shipped it:





Showed up Feb 11th 2009:





More to come...

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http://www.raceme.cc/helmet/

[This message has been edited by helmet1978 (edited 04-21-2009).]

Here's the parts I've got:

Intense Racing MPS with 3.6" pulley
W-Body Store A/C delete pulley and larger SC idler pulley
ZZPerformance Northstar throttle body with Gen V adapter and harnesses
Spec Stage III clutch
Machined and match balanced Camaro flywheel
180 deg thermostat
Poly tranny/engine mounts with 3800 adapter
Autolite 104 plugs
255lph Walbro in-tank fuel pump

Here are a few new pics for now:

Pretty clean with no wiring Also flipped the fuel rail around.


No so clean! I'm making one harness from 3.


Starting to get sensor wires layed out and routed.


I still have to finalize where I'm putting the alternator and what I'm doing about an upper dog bone bracket.

Talked to one exhaust shop and they can build me an exhaust for $350 that looks like this:


Probably should go get a couple more quotes I guess.

Good luck. I see that you scrapped the idea of using ETC in favor of the N* TB and LS1 MAF sensor. With the Gen V supercharger and your combo, programming the PCM is a must as the fueling will be way off from stock.

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" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, 3.4" Pulley, N* TB, LS1 MAF, Flotech Exhaust Autolite 104's Custom CAI 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

Are you using a GenV PCM aswell? If so becareful when you get your tuning done. The GenV's are known in the GP's for "freezing" while uploading the tune and frying the PCM itself. Just Have to becareful, any hiccup in the connection can do this.

Your build looks awesome! Best of luck to ya with the rest of it

quote Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: Good luck. I see that you scrapped the idea of using ETC in favor of the N* TB and LS1 MAF sensor. With the Gen V supercharger and your combo, programming the PCM is a must as the fueling will be way off from stock.

Thanks for the comments guys!

I have Darth Fiero doing the initial programming of the 2000 GTP PCM and I've given him this full list of mods to start with. There is also a guy in our local Grand Prix club that is very good with tuning these engines so I will be getting him involved as soon as I have it running.

I have a few questions that I'll be posting later tonight, so if anyone has thoughts I'd love to hear them!

Paul

Awesome build!! You're really gettin it done. Hope I'll be able to go and see it. I'm kind of in a similar process

Wes

Looking Good--If you are not going to be running any A/C at all then I would suggest moving the Alt down to where the A/C is. That way you can use the area where the Alt came from to mount the GP aluminum dog bone for an upper dog bone mount. With the 3 point mounting system you will need an upper mount to keep the motor from rocking under hard acceleration.

You suck!! I was suppose to be the first 3800 fiero in the Boise area....

Just messin.... Looks great Paul, you will love the power and feel of your fiero when you're done.
Keep up the good work, looking forward to seeing it at the shows this summer.

quote Originally posted by helmet1978: Found a A/C bracket in the junk yard for $6 so I could test my belt routing. This uses a stock SC belt for the accessory side:

I really don't think you will have very good luck with this belt routing. That long straight section will likely be subject to some interesting dynamics which will be hard to overcome. In other words I think your belt is going to jump right off the pulleys.

quote Originally posted by helmet1978: Thanks for the comments guys! I have Darth Fiero doing the initial programming of the 2000 GTP PCM and I've given him this full list of mods to start with. There is also a guy in our local Grand Prix club that is very good with tuning these engines so I will be getting him involved as soon as I have it running. I have a few questions that I'll be posting later tonight, so if anyone has thoughts I'd love to hear them! Paul

Dont bother with having Ryan flash it then. The grand prix guy could most likely do it for free.

quote Originally posted by Jefrysuko: I really don't think you will have very good luck with this belt routing. That long straight section will likely be subject to some interesting dynamics which will be hard to overcome. In other words I think your belt is going to jump right off the pulleys.

Actually that long straight section is just like the stock routing:



I'm pretty sure I don't have enough tension on it the way it sits, however, so I'm still playing around with it.

Thanks for all the input guys!

Paul

Gonna be a nice motor swap for a nice lookin Fiero

I did a little grinding on the accessory tensioner last night, here's how the belt looks now:



I put the belt on the SC side and have about .5" of deflection on the longest stretch. With this accessory routing I have almost 1" of deflection. Anyone know if that is too much??

Also, I think I've got the heater core situation figured out, but wanted to check with the experts

I grabbed this connector from the junk yard:



If I connect the heater core feed line to this, the return line to the coolant fill neck, and plug the lower intake coolant port everything should work fine right?

Thanks again everyone!

Paul

The part going to the water pump will get blocked off on a 87/88, and it will run to the heater core return on a 84-86.

The part going to the lim is the feed to the heater core on all years.

There is no reason to run a coolant neck or anything fancy in the engine bay, you can fill the entire thing from the front, or pull a hose off to fill from the rear.

[This message has been edited by darkhorizon (edited 04-22-2009).]

quote Originally posted by helmet1978: Actually that long straight section is just like the stock routing:

Holy Cow! I would have never thought it was like that from the factory.

Well, I got the clutch and flywheel mounted, engine/transmission mated, and did a test fit yesterday.

FYI, take off the exhaust crossover before putting the engine/tranny together!! We fought that thing for about 30 min before I got smart and took it off. Once that was out of the way it slid right on like a champ!

So I found out that the decklid will not close with the alternator up high. Anyone have some drawings or measurements for a low mount bracket, either where the AC was or in place of the PS pump? I've seen several different designs, I just can't see paying $350 for a bracket!

Also, I forgot I have to take out the decklid springs...any tricks you guys have used for this procedure?

For the fuel lines I'm trying to do the remote mount pressure regulator trick with the stock series III fuel rails. I mis-measured and got the 5/16 quick connect fitting instead of the 3/8 so I'm going to have swap that with Jegs. I noticed the 3/8 fitting goes to a -8AN fitting instead of a 6, can I get by with the -6AN line or should I bump up to the 8 for everything on the feed side?

Thanks again for all your help!

Paul

You have a few options...

You can fix your mounts, it is most likely mounted very high right now, and you could easily lower them, and clear that way. You could notch the decklid. Or you could make a low mount setup... its not very hard to weld together some scrap steel bits and make a soild mount with that style alternator.

Why are you worried about your trunk springs?

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: Why are you worried about your trunk springs?

I just know they're under quite a bit of tension and don't want to break anything

Thanks for your advice. I'm out of town for the next week so I've got some time to figure out what I'm going to do with the alternator. I have a couple friends that are great welders so I'll probably just have them come over and whip something up next week.

Paul

You shouldnt have to worry about your tension rods... If your straps broke, it is not that hard to let them go easily onto the window... I have smacked that window pretty hard once or twice and the window doesnt care... so if you are nice it should be fine.

The alternator belt routing shown is not a good way to do it. It is always recommended to pick up at least 50% of a pulleys circumference with the belt to insure that it doesn't slip. If you want to keep the alternator in the stock location look at the bracket that WCF and Fieroaddiction make for the PS delete.That maintains s belt routing similar to stock. The notchback should clear the GTP alternator mount so I would not worry about a low mount.

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" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, 3.4" Pulley, N* TB, LS1 MAF, Flotech Exhaust Autolite 104's Custom CAI 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

quote Originally posted by helmet1978: So I found out that the decklid will not close with the alternator up high. Anyone have some drawings or measurements for a low mount bracket, either where the AC was or in place of the PS pump? I've seen several different designs, I just can't see paying $350 for a bracket! Paul

Since you have no A/C then just move the Alt down to the A?C location and the decklid issue is solved. Really no exact way to mount the Alt in the A/C location just as long as the belt is lined up and mounted solid.

To remove the tension bars you will bed a security bit to pull the bolts out or a pair of vise grips. Hold them cause they will pop sometimes once they come loose.

Heres the pics of the test fit:





I got the decklid torsion bars out, removed the cruise control hardware and alternator/ignition coil cooler tubes. Also got to the junk yard today and picked up the aluminum dog bone bracket for the 3800 (mine was broken).

Since I'll actually be in town next week I'm hoping to get this alternator thing delt with, since that looks like my biggest hurdle at the moment.

Also, for anyone wondering...the series III fuel rail uses a 3/8" quick connect fitting not 5/16". If anyone with a series II wants a 5/16" to -6AN Aeromotive fitting let me know

Paul

Wow, can't believe its been almost a month since I've updated this!

Progress has been a bit slow since I've been out of town quite a bit in the last few weeks, but I've gotten alot done in this week.

Wiring is done, just need to build the speedo circuit.

Front side of motor


Back side of motor


Inside wiring, PCM connectors, Fiero C203, C500, fuel pump relay


Grabbed a fuel pressure regulator from the junk yard today, it came from a 3800 N/A but it looks just like the S/C one. Anyone know if this will work?



Cut up the series II fuel rail and started playing with my tube flaring tool:


Heres the fuel setup to work with the Series III returnless rails


This is Darth Fiero's design, used on his LS4 swap. Looks like the simplest way to go in my book. Pressure regulator mounts down by the fuel filter. More pics of this when I get it finished

Aeromotive makes factory style clip on connectors. Not cheap ($38 each) but definately nice!


More in a minute!

Paul

the green tube is PCV fresh air, that runs to the open port on the northstar.

the L36 FPR will work fine.

Now that was easy!

[This message has been edited by darkhorizon (edited 05-24-2009).]

Getting closer!

Alternator bracket finished. Just waiting for my other tensioner to get here and the pulley system will be done.


Just about done with the modifications needed for the shift cables to clear the exhaust crossover.




Coolant fill has been modified but I didn't get a pic of that.

I'll be bringing the drivetrain home tomorrow, and hoping to get it back in the car early this week.

If at all possible I'd like to do the case learn and get it running next weekend...cross fingers!

Paul

Well guys, I came down with some flu this morning, but did get a little done in the last two days.

Front side, wiring tied up and coolant hoses mocked up.


Both belts tensioned up. I have a larger pulley on order for the accessory belt to see if I can get a little more gap between the water pump pulley and the belt between the tensioner and A/C delete pully.


Axels and rear suspension back on. Made a few little pieces to keep wires from hitting the long axle.


Made up the PCV fresh air hose, put a few of the intake pieces on.


Finally have all the necessary fittings for the fuel rail side to make the gauge work.


Another shot of the 4" intake. I had to cut a little out of the side of the engine bay to get the tube to go through, but not much.


Hopefully I'll get the engine back in tomorrow night, do a fuel pressure test and thanks to Landon and Keven do first start on Saturday!

Paul

Intake looks superb, easily the best fiero swap intake to date. Get a giant honkin filter on there to complement it.

Very nice work. You are on your way to some real driving excitement. Just check to see if the PCV intake/crankcase breather is routed BEFORE the TB, not after it. If it is mounted after you will end up with vacuum on both ends and have no crankcase ventillation. On my setup the intake tube routes to the CAI tube.

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, 3.4" Pulley, N* TB, LS1 MAF, Flotech Exhaust Autolite 104's Custom CAI 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

quote Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: Very nice work. You are on your way to some real driving excitement. Just check to see if the PCV intake/crankcase breather is routed BEFORE the TB, not after it. If it is mounted after you will end up with vacuum on both ends and have no crankcase ventillation. On my setup the intake tube routes to the CAI tube.

Its fine, that routing is perfect.

You gonna have that beast ready for fiero fest in the Tri Cities this year? Hmm?

Can't wait to see it in person..

quote Originally posted by aaronkoch: You gonna have that beast ready for fiero fest in the Tri Cities this year? Hmm? Can't wait to see it in person..

If all goes well I'll have it ready for Cool Desert Nights in Tri-Cities June 26th-27th!
If I don't make that, then definately will be ready by August for Fiero Fest.

Thanks for all helpful info everyone!

Paul

Looks like you have a good build in process. The engine looks great. I would just have one concern: the transmission.

Is that an Isuzu 5 speed? If so, I would recomend getting a different tranny. The Isuzu is fragile and the gap between 1st and 2nd is huge. If you plan to aggresively drive with it, you will likely destroy 2nd gear with all the torque your engine has.

Try to find a Getrag or at least a 85-86 4 speed if you want to stick with a manual.

It looks like a muncie.

I am going to suggest now that you get a LIVE tune on it, as it would be a very bad idea to get a mail order tune done on a setup like that.

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: It looks like a muncie. I am going to suggest now that you get a LIVE tune on it, as it would be a very bad idea to get a mail order tune done on a setup like that.

You're right, its a Muncie 4 speed.

I have Darth Fiero's base tune in the PCM now. I told him all the mods to the engine as well as the transmission I'm using so it should have a good starting point.

That being said, I do have our local 3800 expert and his PowerTuner software coming over for the first startup, as well as available for further tuning

Paul