Hi, I have an 86 fiero GT 2,8 wich i have rebuilt and turbocharged. I am running at 20 psi and its vorking fine most of the time. With one exeption. I am blowing the head gaskets. I am running the regular felpro gaskets from fierostore.
Is there another kind of gasket available for that engine. I looked at federal moguls pages and they make a mls gasket that looks like it could do the job. Does anyone know if its available for the 2,8. Or if someone makes something for that engine.
I appreciate any help i get on this. Thanks!

Kristian

I looked into having mls gaskets made by Cometic for one of my 2.8's. It wasn't cheap. Cheaper to do a 3800 turbo than to have the mls gaskets made. If I would have kept the car, I probably would have o-ringed it. Even that was cheaper. By far

Sorry, can't help witht the head gasket, but would like to get some details about your set-up. I don't think I've heard of anyone running that much boost on a 2.8.

What have you got for an intercooler?
Compression ratio?
ECM/Tuning solution?

Cheers

Thanks for the interest.!
I think o ringing it might be the best solution yes. I was just hoping somebody made a better gasket without o rings, so i didnt have to take the engine to a shop to have that done.

Im running with an FMIC intercooler in the back where the trunk used to be. Its got a 26x12x3 inch core. I have two electric fans in the hood right under the spoiler blowing air through it. These fans are activated by the by the computer when the intake temperature sensor senses more than 90f in the air right after the intercooler. It holds the temperature down pretty good.
The engines compression ratio is 8>1. I did this by machining down the probe forged pistons, so they became lower.
For ecu i am using the Haltech e6gmx programmable computer. It fits the fieros original wiring harness with some miner modifications. Im using 500cc injectors with it in order to get the mixture rich enough on full boost.

Below you can see a printout of the dyno run of the engine.

quote Originally posted by boretti: Below you can see a printout of the dyno run of the engine.

Is that 400 TQ from a 2.8?

[This message has been edited by Bradley Jay (edited 10-11-2009).]

That's a frigging sweet dyno sheet!

Cheers

wot-tech will be selling mls gaskets soon http://wot-tech.com/shop/al...askets/prod_246.html
Nice numbers on the dyno

Thanks! Yes its a 2,8 with 440 footpounds of tourque! Its been suprisingly durable to. I drove it whole last summer without problems.
Pistons, crankshaft and pushrods are machined and made for this one engine.
If i do the o ring grooves this winter, then i might go for even more boost or for an E85 map. Its the head gaskets that limits the bost now.

Do you have any pictures of your build? And do you have more specs? What kind of turbo/cam are you running? What kind of material are the rods/crank made out of? Did you do any modification to the block to strengthen it?

Sorry for all the questions, but you have some insane numbers coming out of a 2.8 and I'd like to hear more about it.

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'88 GT- 3800 Turbo Best E.T.- 11.654 Best MPH-120.65
gmtuners.com -Build info

With 20 psi of boost you will need to O ring those heads for proper sealing. I doubt if any head gasket will hold that kind of boost. As for your power figures Is that 375 HP @440 Ft lbs torque from a 2.8L??? If so I would not count on engine longevity with 2 bolt mains and med duty connectings rods but who knows? We've seen guys run 2.8L/3.1L's to over 300 HP but where you are pushing the 2.8L engine is unknown territory.

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" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, 3.4" Pulley, N* TB, LS1 MAF, Flotech Exhaust Autolite 104's Custom CAI 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

[This message has been edited by Dennis LaGrua (edited 10-11-2009).]

Here are some images of when i built the car two years ago. About the output of the engine. This is in fact working. The only thing that i have to change once and a while is the head gaskets. I completely tore down the engine a couple of weeks ago to inspect, and it looks fine. Of course i do a precautionary cam rod and main bearing change once im in there, why not.

The pistons are probe forged piston set wich we have machined down to allow 1/8 compression. 0.40 oversize
The Connecting rods are actually chewy v8 performance rods that have been machined in both ends to fit both the crank and the pistons.
The crankshaft is manufactured by a norwegian company. Dont have much info on it.
The block itself is original. Just cleaned drilled and pepared.
There is a solid windage tray made by the guys that made the crankshaft. This supports the crank bearings and reduces resistance.
Hi vol oilpump from Fierostore.
Arp hardened bolts all around.
The heads is ported some both on exaust and intake.
Stainless steel valve kit with performance valve springs
Its got the 260h comp cam that fierostore sells
As for the turbo its got the turbonetics hybrid T3 T4. wich is big enough without making to much turbo lag.
Its controlled by the old turbonetic racegate and electronic bost control solenoid from the e6gmx
An fmic intercooler with two fans
Haltech e6gmx and 500 cc injectors.
Hi vol fuel pump
All the exhaust is stainless ferrita parts. exept from the tips they are from an audi TT ,=)

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ISK-100-GRM/

you can o-ring the engine block yourself.

quote Originally posted by boretti: Arp hardened bolts all around.

ARP head studs or bolts? To what torque are you pulling them?

that is amazing. You started a thread wanting to know about head gaskets and now we all want to know about this 2.8 that makes close to 400 HP. Can you blame us? WOW.

How much did all the custom parts and work cost?

It is bolts. But i might put in studs there now. That way we dont ruin the trhreads in the block taking the tops on and off. The torque i dont remember, ill ask someone

This is a great example of what the so called "boat anchors" can do! All you gotta do is try. Just think if the same setup was on a 3.4, with the stronger block?
GO 60* V6's!

ICS Titan gaskets will hold without o-ringing.

http://www.scegaskets.com/C...askets-p6754330.html
^^^Good stuff.

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My Web page | The Turbo Super Duty Build.
You know that little voice that says it can't be done? I duct-taped its mouth shut and pushed it down a flight of stairs. (Leader of the Insurgency)

quote Originally posted by boretti: I have been using the standard momentum though. I think it is between 65 and 75

Hi-tensile strength head studs such as ARP don't give you any benefit unless you torque them to a higher torque (put more preload on the joint against the combustion forces)

You may have to torque higher.

quote Originally posted by boretti: I have been using the standard momentum though. I think it is between 65 and 75

quote Originally posted by KurtAKX: Hi-tensile strength head studs such as ARP don't give you any benefit unless you torque them to a higher torque (put more preload on the joint against the combustion forces) You may have to torque higher.

Ditto. Talk to the MFG of the head gaskets you've been using first, but I'd recommend head studs and 85 ftlbs of torque with ARP moly lube.

Looks like i might get hold of a pair of mls gaskets from cometic. Ill se what kind of torque they recommend. Thats probably going to make some difference.

Have you ever tried the Fel-pro Perma-Torque gaskets?

http://www.rockauto.com/cat...reinfo.php?pk=447033

I would think this qualifies as "Severe Duty".

quote Originally posted by Fieroseverywhere: Have you ever tried the Fel-pro Perma-Torque gaskets? http://www.rockauto.com/cat...reinfo.php?pk=447033 I would think this qualifies as "Severe Duty".

I havent, but they do in fact say severe duty. They are pretty cheap so they might be worth a shot. Im kinda skeptical to putting in a 200 dollar cometic gasket. If I for some reason have to take a top of, its a new 200.

Since the standard Fel-pro held for some time I'd think it would be worth looking into. They are roughly double the cost of the standard fel-pro. IMO its a little early to be talking about o-ringing. At least until you try a better headgasket and higher head bolt torque. I, personally, would only consider o-ringing when all else fails.

I have one request. Once you get it running again post a video. Me, and I'm sure many others, want to hear this monster run. Best of luck on the repair.

Boretti, you got a PM.. Im a fellow norwegian
I didn know there was a Turbo fiero in Norway. I got a 3.4l that im gonna turboconvert..so i have some questions for you

The ARP or any other stud is far superior to any bolt you will ever install on a head.
The head bolt for the same torque spec will have far less clamping force due to the twisting of the bolt.
The head stud has no such interference and provides a far superior clamp for the exact same torque spec.
This is well documented in almost any engine performance literature you will read, some claim that the stud clamp provides as much a 40% greater clamp than a bolt for the same torque spec.
Don’t forget to use molly sulfide lube with studs, when using MS lube be sure and reduce the torque spec by 10% If you use regular machine oil reduce by torque spec by 5%
There are allot of people who will tell you to increase the torque spec… this can cause warping and can cause the flat surface of the head to be irregular or wavy due to the extreme force.
I would not in crease the torque spec at all, but if you must do not exceed 10% of the original spec.
Corky Bell in his book on turbo charging touches on the subject of head gaskets and studs/ vs bolts in detail and it may be worth the read.
A superior head gasket and head studs should solve your problem.
I’d like to say that that is one sick 2.8 keep it up the good work!!!!!!

quote Originally posted by Scoobysruvenge: The ARP or any other stud is far superior to any bolt you will ever install on a head. The head bolt for the same torque spec will have far less clamping force due to the twisting of the bolt. The head stud has no such interference and provides a far superior clamp for the exact same torque spec. This is well documented in almost any engine performance literature you will read, some claim that the stud clamp provides as much a 40% greater clamp than a bolt for the same torque spec. Don’t forget to use molly sulfide lube with studs, when using MS lube be sure and reduce the torque spec by 10% If you use regular machine oil reduce by torque spec by 5% There are allot of people who will tell you to increase the torque spec… this can cause warping and can cause the flat surface of the head to be irregular or wavy due to the extreme force. I would not in crease the torque spec at all, but if you must do not exceed 10% of the original spec. Corky Bell in his book on turbo charging touches on the subject of head gaskets and studs/ vs bolts in detail and it may be worth the read. A superior head gasket and head studs should solve your problem. I’d like to say that that is one sick 2.8 keep it up the good work!!!!!!

Thanks! The thing about the studs make good sense. The threads friction while tightening the bolt probably takes a lot of the force applied. While on studs you only have the nut making friction, and the rest going to clamp down. Im searching online for a good deal.

If it was me , I would just use headstuds with the felpro gaskets you've been using. I bet that will cure the problem

About the detonation. I don't think thats the case, but you never know. I have a air/fuel meter in the car so im pretty sure the mixture is kept rich. Plus you can see that right when you hit full boost the exhaust turns a little grey which is a good sign. When we ran it on the dyno we had a stetoscope on it and monitored for pings while mapping. It is always the case of getting some bad fuel though. I have an inlet air/ ignition temperature map in the haltech. It gradually retards the ignition when the intercooler heatsoaks.

quote Originally posted by boretti: Winter is coming to Norway now so im not going to drive the car on the road in a while unless its one of those really warm florida winters. Up here, doubtful ;-) But i am taking the car to the dyno again as soon as I find a lasting solution to the gasket problem and make a few modifications to the intercooler and exhaust. I will tape that and post it.

I look forward to it.

Wow this is the highest 2.8 I have evr seen a dyno of. Steve Hamm years ago had his dyno at 330hp and about 390 lb of TQ.

Excellent job, and you have me excited. I have a 3.4 with Trueleo intake that is screaming to be boosted. This should do the job in pushing me to do it.

Would be interested to know where you got the forged pistons.

Yeah. Im shocked too. This is very impressive for a 2.8. Who did your manifolds?

Buy the probe forged pistons from fierostore. You will have to machine down the top of the piston a little bit to get the compression down. Another important thing is that you have to make sure it gets enough fuel. The stock injectors and the stock computer is no good here. The haltech i bought fits the factory wiring pretty good. Some miner modifications. Enough fuel on all cylinders is what keeps it cool enough on high boost.

I noticed that the AFR on your dyno sheet tends to be in the 12.5:1 range under boost, My first thought was "wow, someone managed to tune for boost without needing to wash the cylinders down with fuel to control detonation!", but on reflection, I thought maybe 12.5 was a bit lean for such a high boost level given that it's common to aim for 12.8 to 13 in a normally aspirated engine.

Does point out the benefits of a proper intercooler setup though.

Cheers