I have a 5.0 in my 55 Healey and it's great. There are a lot more hot rods out there with Chevys in them than Fords. That being said I prefer to keep Fords in Fords and GMs in GMs. All my Fieros have either had Fiero or Chevy or Cadillac engines.
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11:21 AM
joshh44 Member
Posts: 2166 From: Nanaimo, B.C, Canada Registered: Aug 2007
Hopefully he didn't get banned for talking about a Ford engine in a Fiero?
The months Hot Rod magazine has an article about the LS engine being the best engine available (arguably true) and the new EPA compliant replacement GM drivetrain package for '80 something cars. There is a Ford insert to the article with Ford's rebuttle and it's a nice looking engine with good specs.
------------------ RickN White 88GT 5spd (<10K miles) White 85GT (SC3800 Series II w/ AOD) White 99 F250SD 7.3PSD 6spd 1956 Ford 860 Tractor w/ Freeman Loader 20Ft H&H Tilt Bed Trailer
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05:01 PM
PFF
System Bot
Isolde Member
Posts: 2504 From: North Logan, Utah, USA Registered: May 2008
My 65 mustang gt fastback had an exhaust that looked like a snake that had swallowed something. I got pulled over for a spirited on ramp run and the cop said "let's hear it" so I gave it a little gas and he said "no give it more" so I did and then said "let's hear yours". He was riding a Harley and wouldn't do it, but he gave me a ticket anyway. Which I beat because it was stock.
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08:09 PM
Isolde Member
Posts: 2504 From: North Logan, Utah, USA Registered: May 2008
is the fords smallblock firing order different from the chevy smallblocks?
Some are, some are not. The 302HO uses the 351W firing order, and that's different from pre-HO 302s, 289s et cetera. I forget which is the SBC sequence, but one is functionally the same. The reason people doubt this is because ford has no idea how to number cylinders. GM and Mopar got it right, so that makes Ford the screw-up. Doesn't matter, though. Because they all used 90 degree cranks. And the result of that is that every one of them has 6 firings alternating banks, then 2 on the same bank, then it repeats. That's what gives the V8 that v8 sound. You can get rid of it with custom 180 degree headers, or a non-production 180 degree crank.
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11:13 PM
Isolde Member
Posts: 2504 From: North Logan, Utah, USA Registered: May 2008
In an OEM stock vehicle, I think Ford, more so than any of the other manufactures, understands how to make a V8 exhaust sound good though!
That's a matter of personal preference. Pepsi versus Coke. Whatever. Besides, stick the Ford V8 in a Fiero, it'll sound different. Unless you want the mufflers hanging 7 feet out the driver's side. And who keeps a stock Ford cam, anyway? That'll change the sound.
[This message has been edited by Isolde (edited 01-03-2011).]
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11:14 PM
joshh44 Member
Posts: 2166 From: Nanaimo, B.C, Canada Registered: Aug 2007
i like coke over pepsi. like the sound of the fords v8 more then compaired to the chevy v8s. both are good. but there is one you like just alittle more.
i was thinking of doing the newer style ford V8s. the 4.6. every mustang around here with some exhaust work just sounds awesome. even the 302s sounds pretty nice. you would need an adapter plate like the chevy. i wonder what the size difference is between the chevy and ford smallblocks are. both engines have great aftermarket support.
both engines have great hp. that little 302 can sure put out great numbers compaired to the chevy 305 which are similar in displacement. a stroked out 302 would sure have some good power to.
i was doing alittle reading and i might be mistaken but they said the newer 4.6 engines came both in cast iron and some in aluminum.
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11:24 PM
1fatcat Member
Posts: 1519 From: Zimmerman, Mn Registered: Dec 2010
Originally posted by joshh44: i wonder what the size difference is between the chevy and ford smallblocks are. both engines have great aftermarket support.
----The newer 302s are called 5.0s. 5.0s have roller tappet camshafts.---5.0s and 302s have the same bore and stroke, and almost the same block. Ford 5.0 pushrod is smaller than the older small block Chev. The engine started life at 221 CI, and never got past 302 cubic inches or 5.0 liters. A 5.0 (302) engine has a bore of 4.00" and a stroke of 3.00". A stock 305 Chev has a bore of 3.74" and a stroke of 3.48", so you can fit bigger valves in the Ford. The Ford engine is narrower than the Chev by a couple inches, because of the lower deck height, and if you use the MN-12 (Cougar, T-Bird) front dress, it's shorter than a Gen 1 SBC. The Ford 5.0 is lighter than the Chev. A Ford 5.0 has a roller cam stock. Lots of them out there. The only problem is the stock 5.0 heads suck pretty bad compared to the most of the Chevs. However if you go aftermarket on the heads, you can make 500 HP without to much problem, which is where the stock engine block starts flexing and comes apart anyway. The stock 5.0 can be stroked to about 347 CI, where you run out of room in the crankcase. For a small engine compartment, a modified Ford 5.0 makes more sense than the traditional SBC, IMO--- If you can find an adaptor plate. Possibility that 180* headers for the GT40 may also fit in the Fiero engine bay as well. But that's a guess. You may hear about 408+ CI ford small blocks but those are 351 Windsors--302s with an increased deck height-- so they are about as large as a SBC.
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12:10 AM
Isolde Member
Posts: 2504 From: North Logan, Utah, USA Registered: May 2008
I measured the 5.0 in my '89 Mustang, and with it's stock water pump, I found it was too long for a Fiero swap. But apparently someone found a way. Probably butchered everything. Even IF they used a 1/8" steel adapter plate. The 4.6 is a short V8, but we've already had at least 2 threads evaluating fitting them into a Fiero. As of now, noone's done it. Brand loyalty is questionable in any case, but it's not grounds for tackling a swap. If you want to prove your fabrication skills, then a 4.6 Ford in a Fiero becomes valid. The LSx un-arguably offers more power for less money, and is a tested and proven swap, if you must have a V8 Fiero. If you like the 4.6 Ford so much, the Cadillac Northstar is the same thing, only better. And again, tested and proven for Fiero swaps. None of these can rival FieroX's L67 swap, for either quarter mile timeslips, or for fuel economy. And depending on your level of build, the L67 is the easiest true-performance swap ( a Camaro 3.4 doesn't count ) and thus the most likely to get completed, driven and enjoyed. If you're in Cali, your true-performance swap options are basically the 3.4TDC, the L67, and the LS4.
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12:24 AM
PFF
System Bot
stickpony Member
Posts: 1187 From: Pompano Beach, FL Registered: Jan 2008
Topic alive on fords forums too (I put "fiero connection" in miata 5.0 topic on TTCOA ).
Other hand, I have weakest fiero, and I have spare 5.0HO for thunderbird, lets think ... so, I think, I have no any transaxle to fit this, and no idea for transaxle with proper torque for 5.0HO... Ofkorz, its dream, I stay with stock fiero, if I rebuild and overhaulin her.
About sound, I not own or hear too much mustangs or vette or camaro, but our tbird 5.0 sounds very nice on stock exhaust, smooth V8 sound on low, and roar from half throttle. Much better than any caddie V8 I heard, definitely (I know, its different purpose for exhaust in limo and in personal luxury). No GM offence - sound better than lincolns too include my loved mark VIII. I have to compare to stock mustangs some day.
I prefer the Mustang 5.0 over a 305 GM engine. The 305 GM engine was really quite a garbage motor. I've had a few, most of them have all been LG4s...
You'd never want to put an LG4 into anything unless you had to. A 327 is a different story.
The 350 with the right heads is a good motor, but that 305 crank was just garbage, same with everything else attached to it. It was sad times for GM... while on the other hand, Ford was doing something right with their 5.0 (or 4.9, heh...)
You bash the 305 a bit too much, 82T/A. The cranks were only 2 lightening notches different from the 350 cranks. NO other difference. And I guess you never read the 2008 LG4 build called: "Hate Me" With Vortec heads, Edelbrock RPM AirGap intake, Comp XE268H10 cam and headers, 372 HP at 6100 rpm, and 350 ft-lbs peak, with over 320 ft-lbs from 3000-6000 rpm. For a Ford 5.0 to equal that, requires AFR heads. Ported GT40s won't do it. And these Vortecs were not ported. And I am in process of copying that combo for one of my own projects. And the 5.0 starts out at 4944cc, but after the first 500 miles, the initial break-in, it is 4950, which correctly rounds up tp 5.0L The SEFI versions didn't have much bore wear after the first 500 miles, But the carbureted versions certainly had enough bore wear after 100k miles that by then they most definitely were 5000cc. And how is it fair to compare a 150 horse 305 with an automatic, in a 3600 pound F-car, to a 250-horse 302 with a T5, in a 2900 pound Fox Mustang? Yes, Ford rated them at 225, but with 193-194 at the rear wheels, stock...
[This message has been edited by Isolde (edited 01-04-2011).]
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10:27 AM
Jim_Martin29 Member
Posts: 702 From: Marina, California, USA Registered: Jun 2010
I was really into 1960 era Mustangs and Falcons in my younger days. I've had a lot of Fords. I've been thinking about building a mid-engine 1963 Falcon for many years. I think it would be cool, with the Pantera drive train (if I can still find one), chopped and channeled, with a Mustang Fastback back window.
------------------ Jim Martin White '86 GT California
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11:10 AM
May 30th, 2011
2feido Member
Posts: 295 From: chicagoland area Registered: Jun 2006
I used a ford explorer engine... it had the correct oil pan, front cover, balancer, and water pump. I did have to notch the frame rail out but it was reinforced with steel. I have never noticed any flexing or structural issues.
I told myself if i ever owned another fiero.. it would be a low boost 4.6l dohc most likely thru an auto trans. for some reason i could not keep a clutch in that car.
quote
Originally posted by Isolde:
I measured the 5.0 in my '89 Mustang, and with it's stock water pump, I found it was too long for a Fiero swap. But apparently someone found a way. Probably butchered everything. Even IF they used a 1/8" steel adapter plate. The 4.6 is a short V8, but we've already had at least 2 threads evaluating fitting them into a Fiero. As of now, noone's done it. Brand loyalty is questionable in any case, but it's not grounds for tackling a swap. If you want to prove your fabrication skills, then a 4.6 Ford in a Fiero becomes valid. The LSx un-arguably offers more power for less money, and is a tested and proven swap, if you must have a V8 Fiero. If you like the 4.6 Ford so much, the Cadillac Northstar is the same thing, only better. And again, tested and proven for Fiero swaps. None of these can rival FieroX's L67 swap, for either quarter mile timeslips, or for fuel economy. And depending on your level of build, the L67 is the easiest true-performance swap ( a Camaro 3.4 doesn't count ) and thus the most likely to get completed, driven and enjoyed. If you're in Cali, your true-performance swap options are basically the 3.4TDC, the L67, and the LS4.
