ok so i FINALLY got my baby back from the shop, last time i drove it was november 2nd. I finally got the engine swap\replacement done, and when i was on the phone with them they told me that the oil was leaking some and to keep an eye on it, and that the problem was blahblah (i forget) but to fix it they would have to tear it all apart. So i am thinking a minor oil leak...my parents dropped my car off @ work around 5ish, i got off at 7, i drove it to a carwash, then drove it home (bout 15 min drive). After eating (bout an hour later) i go to check out the swap job did they did. I checked the oil...and it was empty. Im not sure how much oil they put in it before my parents pickd it up. Needless to say, and excuse the language, but i am ****ing pissed. I mean, shouldnt they have noticed a problem like this while the engine was out? Is the only way to fix it to pull the engine again? I am pissed that i cant even drive it right now because i need to wait on my parents to get me oil, and i dont even want to drive my fiero to get it because the engine is a rebuilt one, and the reason the old one died was because lack of oil. I am so nervous this engine will blow if the leak is this bad if i attempt to drive it. I am going to put oil in it tommorrow and keep a close eye on it when i drive it to work and call my mechanic. I took a couple picture of the puddle to see if you guys think its a bad oil leak (remember, it has only been sitting there for 2 hrs when i took the picture)


OPINIONS AND ADVISE PLEASE!!!!!

What kind of engine is in there now? That leak looks to be a little on the heavy side...Looks like your going to be needing some card board to park on top of :-D
I'd doubt you'd have to take the engine out...you might have to drop the cradle...but it depends on where the leaking is occurring.

Call them up and tell them they forgot to put oil in your car and they need to have it towed back and make sure nothing got messed up, which from the look of those few drips is not likely. If they say they put oil in the car, then you are right, they never should have let it leave the shop with a leak severe enough to leave it empty after a short drive! If they are a reputable shop they should stand behind their work and their mistakes. I wouldn't put oil back in it myself, I'd have it towed back just as it is now. That sucks, but good luck to you.

[This message has been edited by countach711 (edited 04-13-2010).]

the engine is a 2.8 from this thread https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum4/HTML/050994.html
i dont think i am going to drive it untill i talk to them.....I mean should i demand that they fix it free of charge?

I was also kinda pissed that they put a small crack\chip near the rear trunk\engine compartment, and small chips on the underneath by the exhaust....
*sigh*
I dont know weather i should just go on a rant or what....

=(

[This message has been edited by Xeps (edited 04-13-2010).]

I would try and get the shop to take it back, though it might be something easy, such as not having tightened the oil drain bolt or something like that.

nevermind, just re-read your post......

$900+ job and still problems

Is that is the oil from setting 2 hours I'd say that is a bad leak. A drop or two would be bad enough.
From the location are you sure they even tighten the oil filter. Or could very well be the oil pressure pipe by the filter that goes up to the sender. They can leak if not done correct.

i just talked to my dad, and he said they told him that there was a problem with the "Rear seal", which they said was due to the PO who rebuilt the engine, and that fixing it would cost another $800 to pull the engine again. the guy told my dad just to keep an eye on the oil, didnt imply it was a major leak. I am wondering if the problem should have been noticed while the engine was out, and it is their fault that they didnt notice it and they should be responsible to fix it, or if it is something that couldnt have been noticed untill the engine was in and running and i just got un-****ing-lucky?

Please continue with any advice\opinions

quote Originally posted by Xeps: i just talked to my dad, and he said they told him that there was a problem with the "Rear seal", which they said was due to the PO who rebuilt the engine, and that fixing it would cost another $800 to pull the engine again. the guy told my dad just to keep an eye on the oil, didnt imply it was a major leak. I am wondering if the problem should have been noticed while the engine was out, and it is their fault that they didnt notice it and they should be responsible to fix it, or if it is something that couldnt have been noticed untill the engine was in and running and i just got un-****ing-lucky? Please continue with any advice\opinions

Rear maion seal's can be a problem. It also could be that your gasket hasent had a chance to seat right. Give it a few days and put a couple miles on it, If it dosent stop take it back to them. Did they notify you about the problem before they installed the motor? If so and you opted not to fix it your screwed. If it was caused by there neglect and you can prove it thats another thing.

[This message has been edited by pontiackid86 (edited 04-13-2010).]

quote Originally posted by pontiackid86: Rear maion seal's can be a problem. It also could be that your gasket hasent had a chance to seat right. Give it a few days and put a couple miles on it, If it dosent stop take it back to them. Did they notify you about the problem before they installed the motor? If so and you opted not to fix it your screwed. If it was caused by there neglect and you can prove it thats another thing.

No they didnt notify me about the problem untill after the engine was already in, which they made sound like it wasnt a big issue at all. I dont know if i should put oil in it and give it a few days because if the leak is bad,it could cause big problems and make this motor fail, yes? I plan on calling them in the morning.


Here is some pictures of the damage to the body they caused....

The Trunk\engine compartment



by the exhaust




i am very upset about these as well, and i know these werent there before i took my car in. Shouldnt they be obligated to fix these as well? The mechanic is very reputable locally. Macioci's Garage.
Should i ***** about this too or just let this part go?

With all that damage.....do me a favor, check your coolant tubes and make sure they are not crushed from jacking the car incorrectly.

Here is a pic from the front side of the engine. Maybe will be of help.
You have to get under the car to check out the areas.

quote Originally posted by IMSA GT: With all that damage.....do me a favor, check your coolant tubes and make sure they are not crushed from jacking the car incorrectly.

I, even with my lack of mechanical knowledge, know about busting a fieros coolant tubes\pipes if you jack it wrong, i am really hoping they would know better because they say they have expierance with fieros. Would it be drivable if they were busted? Ok now here comes the dumb question, Exactly where are the coolant tubes?

quote Originally posted by Xeps: i just talked to my dad, and he said they told him that there was a problem with the "Rear seal", which they said was due to the PO who rebuilt the engine, and that fixing it would cost another $800 to pull the engine again. the guy told my dad just to keep an eye on the oil, didnt imply it was a major leak. I am wondering if the problem should have been noticed while the engine was out, and it is their fault that they didnt notice it and they should be responsible to fix it, or if it is something that couldnt have been noticed untill the engine was in and running and i just got un-****ing-lucky? Please continue with any advice\opinions

I could swear I replaced a front seal in a few hours when I was replacing the oil pump once, with the engine still in the car. Is the rear seal really that much harder? (I'm asking, I don't know.) I still think they are responsible for any damage regardless of who caused it originally because they should have test-driven it and would have figured out how bad it was. Saying it was leaking oil is NOT the same as saying your engine will probably seize up if you drive it a few miles. Had they known, and I'm starting to think they didn't know the extent of the leak, they should have said drive it at your own peril, it is leaking oil at the rate of 1 quart per mile, but they didn't. I doubt they test drove it, and if they did, they apparently didn't think to check the oil afterward, and they should have seeing as how they knew there was an oil leak. If they did do a test drive, it probably left the shop with virtually no oil in it. If no damage has been done, then I guess consider yourself lucky. Can you get the rebuilder to fix the seal?

They run down each side underneath below the doors.

Look under the drivers side and passenger side. You will see a tube run from the rear of the car to the front radiator. If they are crushed, you can overheat real easy. Just make sure they aren't damaged.

countach711 you have to pull the engine or transmission and remove the flex plate or flywheel to replace the rear seal.
Pulling the tranmission after tipping the cradle it would probably take me at least 5 hour min. start to finish to replace a rear seal on a manual. Longer on an auto.

[This message has been edited by Dodgerunner (edited 04-13-2010).]

quote Originally posted by Dodgerunner: countach711 you have to pull the engine or transmission and remove the flex plate or flywheel to replace the rear seal.

I havent made it out, looking for a flashlight.
You mention flex plate and flywheel......I think this is for a manual? The engine i got is from a manual (mine an auto) and (im pretty sure) had these brand new on them when i bought it. They had to be removed before installing the engine into my car. Is it possibly the engine leak was caused when they removed it? Or at they very least shouldnt they have noticed a faulty rear seal?

quote Originally posted by Dodgerunner: countach711 you have to pull the engine or transmission and remove the flex plate or flywheel to replace the rear seal. Pulling the tranmission after tipping the cradle it would probably take me at least 5 hour min. start to finish to replace a rear seal on a manual. Longer on an auto.

Dodgerunner, thanks for the info, I didn't know that!

An auto uses a flex plate, flywheel for a manual. Would be fairly hard to damage a rear seal swapping them.
If someone else put the seal in an damaged it you would not necessarily be able to tell by looking at it.
Slightly damaged they would not normally be a running leak.

I feel your pain bt let me see if I understand.
Are you saying that you took an engine to a mechanic and paid him to install it? (The mechanic did not supply the engine?) If that is correct the mechanic can't be responsible for the leak or the labor to repair it. Now he probably should have given a stronger warning to your parents unless the leak got worse after they picked it up.
I would try to make sure where the leak is before anything.
It seems like the real problem is the person that supplied the "rebuilt" engine.
Good Luck. Hope it's not as bad as it looks.

Ok so i checked the coolant tubes and they are fine, i had a hard time looking @ the oil filter\seal considering its dark and i didnt jack the car up...how ever when looking i did notice this and now am more pissed, confused, and wondering WTF is going on!


I found a smear of (what i think is) black paint underneath my license plate. I have NEVER got paint near my car\attempted to paint anything on it, nor did Maciocis EVER mention painting it, or ask for permission to paint anything on my car. I am 90% sure these werent here before i took my car there. I knew where every scratch\chip\flaw was on my car because i hand washed my car like once a week and they always bothered the **** out of me every time!


I also noticed a splotch of black paint under neath the rear lights to the right of the exhaust

a close up from the underneath

You can also see some minor splatter along the underneath along the bottom....

WTF...are they trying to cover something up? They never mentioned this to me...

Man, I hate to see shops do like this to people. Here's something I think you should look at. Make sure you still have oil in the engine, start it up and with a bright flashlight, check to see if oil isn't leaking out at the base of the distributor. There's an o-ring on the distributor, if it leaks it can make it look like the main seal is leaking. If that's where it's actually leaking it's a cheap and easy repair. I am hoping for you that is the problem. Here's a pic to show where to check:



Mike

[This message has been edited by Nosferatu187 (edited 04-13-2010).]

If there are issues with the rebuilt motor that you supplied, its definitely not these guys' problem.

If they broke something on it, that is their problem.

Sounds like you bought an engine that was incompetently rebuilt.

picture of the invoice


warranty @ bottom the invoice
I hereby authorize the above repair \\ork to be done along with the necessary material and herein grant you and or your employees
permission to operate the car or truck herein described on street. highways or elseuhere for the purpose to testing and or inspection. An
express mechanic's lien is hereby acknowledged on a above car or truck to secure the amount of repairs thereto.Warranty on parts and labor is
one years or 12.000 miles whichever comes first. Warranty work has to he performed in our shop & cannot exceed the original cost ofrepair.

Idk if this helps any

From all the collateral damage you discovered "SO FAR" I wouldn't let these butchers near my car. That decklid crack looks like someone closed the lid with a socket or wrench lying underneath of it.

Since you supplied the engine they should of explained to you that they're not responsible for any issues with the engine especially if it was never run before. If it was never run there would be no tattle tails of a leak for them to discover until it was installed and started.

Sorry for your bad luck.

Spoon

------------------
Two yeast spent their entire life "about 2 days" discussing what the purpose of life could be and not once did they even come close to the fact that they were making champagne. Quoted by: Unknown

I hope for your sake it's a leak at the Distributor & it's running down.( alot more likely than a brand new seal failing) But if it IS the rear seal, & you Don't get it fixed quick, you'' be changing the Clitch also ( from the oil flying around in the bell housing getting on the clutch) I would suggest you get "Someone else" to check it out.

any more input before i call them in the morning would be greatly appreciated

quote Originally posted by Xeps: I found a smear of (what i think is) black paint underneath my license plate. I have NEVER got paint near my car\attempted to paint anything on it, nor did Maciocis EVER mention painting it, or ask for permission to paint anything on my car. I am 90% sure these werent here before i took my car there. I knew where every scratch\chip\flaw was on my car because i hand washed my car like once a week and they always bothered the **** out of me every time!

I don't think I'd mention anything that's somewhat minor when you call to get this straightened out, at least not in anger. While it might not be right, you should save your energy for the stuff that matters. Could the black paint be a smear of gasket sealer? Regardless, calling them on the cracked deck lid is something they should repair, or pay to have repaired. If the loss of oil fried your engine, I think you have a case in small claims (if it gets that far) because the warranty part says they can drive your car to test it. Again, even if they did not cause the leak, they did not discover it (or at least the severity of it) and they should have so they share partial responsibility for any damage. If no permanent damage has been done, beyond fixing the deck lid, I'm not sure I'd let them work on it again. This is all just my opinion, but good luck to you and let us know what happens!

[This message has been edited by countach711 (edited 04-14-2010).]

Be firm with the shop. They made a mistake. Id be pissed too.

The issues you are having right now is one of the reasons most shops will not take parts from the customer to install. How can they be held responsible for an engine that they did not tear into? All they did was install a leaky engine, and you want to blame them for the leak? They had nothing to do with the leak. The body damage? Go get them. The leaky engine, go get the previous owner.

[This message has been edited by topcat (edited 04-14-2010).]

the leakappears to be from the oil filter area. it seems.
Perhaps they did not get the filter on tight, or even the wrong filter on there.
the rear main seal would not be leaking/dripping from there. sure it "could have" dripped on other stuff to end up there , but I dought it.

Personally I think that if it was leaking around the rear main seal that bad in a manual, you would have noticed the clutch slipping while driving it.

Steve

Valve cover (running down), the oil "TUBE" where it connects to the block, Oil filter, WHO installed the OIL TUBE ? WHO installed the filter ? In any event, *as fast as that oil is leaking, it should be refilled, Put on A Lift, all the Oil Wiped Off, Started , & watched from undernieth WHILE IT'S RUNNING". Leaking That Fast, it will be visible Very Quickly !

I have a question. First let me setup Xeps situtation since he didn't mention something:

1. Xeps car is a V-6 with automatic, motor blown so he needs a new motor.
2. The purchased motor was rebuilt and attached to a 4 speed manual.
3. The shop had to pulls Xeps V-6 and auto, separate the 4 speed from the rebuilt V-6, attach Xeps auto transmission to the rebuilt motor and put it back in the car.

Now my question is when the mechanics swapped the transmission, is there anyway that they could have damaged the rear main seal in the process? Doesn't the crankshaft come out through the rear main seal into the transmission? I have seen people drop one side of the cradle, pull the transmission out to do a clutch, so I was wondering if someone could do that and bung up the seal.

I have done a front main seal on a Miata and it was pretty simple, pull the old one, tap the new one in gently and flush. So I am trying to see if the mechanics could have bunged it up and blaming it on the rebuild.

------------------
-Brian

My 87 GT Poly Suspension Upgrade (all pics) thread https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/094633.html

Removing the roof panel
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/106413.html

quote Originally posted by MulletproofMonk: Now my question is when the mechanics swapped the transmission, is there anyway that they could have damaged the rear main seal in the process? Doesn't the crankshaft come out through the rear main seal into the transmission?

I seriously don't think that's a likely scenario. The rear main seal on a 2.8L is flush or slightly sunken into the rear of the engine block. It's protected from any kind of accidental damage by the flywheel which hides it entirely. Removing the flywheel and then installing the automatic's flex plate is a simple matter of unscrewing the six bolts on the end of the crankshaft. Even if you slipped with a tool, the tool used to remove these bolts is a socket wrench and wouldn't harm a rear main seal since it has such a small surface area that's exposed. A big blunt tool wouldn't do anything to it.



If it is indeed leaking at the rear main seal, then a far more likely scenario is that whoever did the last rebuild either:

a. didn't remachine the crank surface that the seal rides on, and prepare it for a new seal, in which case the new seal is riding in the groove worn by the old seal; or
b. didn't set the seal into the recess squarely; or
c. didn't replace the rear seal.

The thing is, the leak could be coming from the rear cam plug or the oil pan gasket. Both would give the same symptoms as the main rear seal. Xeps needs to get under the car and find the location of the leak to stop all the hap-hazard guessing. More time has been spent typing suggestions than it would have taken him to get under the car and take a picture.