I cut my front springs years ago. Everyone said you can do it, but I'm not happy with the bounce. I know the pre 88's have the shock outside of the controll arm and spring area, but was wondering about possibly putting a coil-over tube, nut and spring in place of the stock spring?

This would essentially be an adjustable coil-over (that I already have in stock) with out a strut inside of it.

Would that give the same results?
Weird Idea I know, but just had to ask the question.

I know first response would be "why don't you get drop springs" But I'm looking for adjustment.

Anyone? Any ideas? I'm sure someone has done it.

The ones who have done it have used aftermarket tubular A-arms.

I found these a month or so ago. Thought there may be a way to make them work. You'd need shorter springs to go with it and adjustability would be somewhat limited by shock travel and factory bump stops (can be trimmed). Could give some adjustment though....
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/AFC-20191/

Unfortunately, I was never able to confirm the ID and OD. You may be able to use them on the bottom of the spring on the lower control arm or with the bump stop cut you may be able to use them on top of the spring. Complete theory at this point but it brought on some good ideas for how it "could" be done. Steel ones would be nice so they could be welded in. Opinions?

[This message has been edited by Fieroseverywhere (edited 07-19-2010).]

Well. I have a set of Honda coil overs in the shop. I put them on the rear, thinking I wasn't going to be impressed with the quality, but to my surprise these cheap honda coil overs have improved my ride so much. I very happy, and was thinking of perhaps trying to put the second set up front in place of the factory springs.



Could these coil overs (Tube, Nut, and Spring) work to serve as some sort of adjustible front spring?
I know the wont have a shock inside them as normal coil overs, but I don't see why they would not work.

Anyone got some detailed pics of the pre 88 front end?

use the search, I know there is a thread out there... If I remember, it is quite involved...

quote Originally posted by Seanpaul: Could these coil overs (Tube, Nut, and Spring) work to serve as some sort of adjustible front spring? I know the wont have a shock inside them as normal coil overs, but I don't see why they would not work. Anyone got some detailed pics of the pre 88 front end?

My 84 is partially apart right now. I'm doing a little work on the front and going to put lowering springs in it. I can take whatever pics are needed. My 84 lower control arms are slightly differernt then most others I've seen but the attachment points, springs, and shocks are the same.

Trying to adapt something to work is not an easy task. There is not alot of room up there to work with. Also the stock spring diamter is an odd size. The factory and most fiero lowering springs are 3.5" ID and 4.5" OD. Your standard coilover spring and adjusters are 2"ID and 2.5"OD. So you're probably not going to find something off the shelf that will bolt on. I had heard that mustangs use a similar size for front springs to maybe there is something adaptable in their aftermarket.

There are other problems with having adjusters for the front springs. Making adjustments is one of those difficulties. Because of the way the 84-87 fronts go together the only way to adjust the height is to dis-assemble a good portion of the front suspension to take the tension off of the spring. Simply jacking up the car as we can do in the rear will not cut it. It's going to be trial and error to get your ride height where you want it. I'm working on finding something that will work.

Anyone have some possible options they've run accross?

HT Motorsports sells a coil-over conversion for the front '84-87 suspension. It uses a custom bracket on the top of the suspension crossmember as the top mounting point for the coil-over, and a custom (tubular steel) lower A-arm for the lower mounting point. You also have to chop out the steel cone that holds the bump stop, to make room for the coil-over setup.

If you're good with a welder, and have an eye for detail, you could probably modify your existing control arms and crossmember brackets to add mounting points to them.

Sounds like a good option for those who have the money. Thanks for the tips.

I'm not necissarily looking for a coilover conversion for my car. I'm actually more interested in just making the ride height adjustable in the front. I called Summit today to see if they had anything available. They don't. They gave the numbers for AFCO and QA1 to check out. QA1 also did not have anything available but said they have had quite a few calls for just this type of thing. They also gave me a number of Naake suspension components located in California. I was told that they may have something to do just this on a fiero. I'm waiting for a call back right now.

I wasn't going to mention this just yet but I have a preliminary design in the works also. Since I have access to a lathe I may be able to make a kind of threaded sleeve that fits over the upper bump stop (cone). This should give an amount of adjustability without a redesign of the front suspension. Lowering springs will need to be used with it to keep the car lower then stock. I'm scheduling time to use the lathe soon to make a prototype. If all goes well I may have something in the next year or so with testing. It's not that difficult of a thing to do. I think the biggest problem is there is nothing out there for our spring size. I'll post more about it when I have something.

[This message has been edited by Fieroseverywhere (edited 07-20-2010).]

quote Originally posted by Blacktree: HT Motorsports sells a coil-over conversion for the front '84-87 suspension.

Do you have a link? Or price?
I checked htmortorsports.com and it says under construction :-(

It's the Sport Front Suspension, at the top of this page:

http://www.westshorefabrica...KitCarSuspension.htm

Here is a good thread on DIY coil overs on the 88 front. It lists some tapered mustang II front springs that fit the fiero upper spring pockets and taper down to the 2 1/2"ID at the bottom. On the 88's it is difficult to get a short enough spring, but the 84-87 springs are about 1" longer so you may be able to fit those springs better.

https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/091747.html

If all you want is the ability to raise/lower your car by about 1", then the easiest method would probably be to get the WCF aluminum spring spacers that mount between the upper perch and the spring, then drill/tap the upper perch for 4 (or more) 3/8" bolts. Use these bolts to raise/lower the spacer relative to the upper perch.

Thats another option I've been considering. QA1 sells a tapered spring that will fit. It is 3.5ID at bottom and 2.5id at the top. I was thinking of removing the stock upper bump stop and replacing it with something similar to this...
http://www.quadratec.com/pr...95038%2F95038-lg.jpg

That would add the adjustability I'm looking for and put a bumpstop back in. Anyways, just tossing out ideas at this point.

[This message has been edited by Fieroseverywhere (edited 07-20-2010).]

quote Originally posted by Fieroseverywhere: Thats another option I've been considering. QA1 sells a tapered spring that will fit. It is 3.5ID at bottom and 2.5id at the top. I was thinking of removing the stock upper bump stop and replacing it with something similar to this... http://www.quadratec.com/pr...95038%2F95038-lg.jpg That would add the adjustability I'm looking for and put a bumpstop back in. Anyways, just tossing out ideas at this point.

That look's awesome, what is it called? And where the buy link?

It's sounds like a nice idea, but i looked at the bump stop tonight, and the sucker looks like it's part of the cross-member frame.
Would cutting it out affect the cross-member in negative way? I would recommended getting a cross-member out of a junk car and trying it on that first. See how easy it comes out, and if installing something adjustable is possible. Man. I wish I didn't just have 4 Fieros towed off. I could have experimenter with the suspension, but dang I had to move!


Here are some pics of my front end.




Hey what are the dimensions and spring rate are the stock Fiero springs? Did cutting off 2 coils of my stock front springs increase the spring weight, thus causing more bounce? Or is it a decrees in spring rate that causes the bounce?

quote Originally posted by Seanpaul: That look's awesome, what is it called? And where the buy link?

Oops. Didn't realize that was a like to just the pic....
http://www.quadratec.com/products/16156_000.htm
I just found the design interesting. They are kind of spendy for something that we don't know for sure would work. I'm actually finding alot of thing like this marked as "lift kits" for trucks. You would have to use them with lowering springs to keep from raising the fiero. Still not exactly what I'm looking for but an interesting design.

Its amazing how similar Jeeps are to fieros. Same wheelbase, shock mounted outside the spring, ect. Just little details like that.

As for the fiero bump stop. I believe the cone is just spot welded to the cross member. When I trimmed mine a couple years ago I believe that is what I saw. Don't remember for sure now. After looking at my 84 last night I'm beginning to look into weight jacking parts. It may be the best solution and will let the adjustments be made with the suspension fully assembled. Should be pretty easy to do also.

[This message has been edited by Fieroseverywhere (edited 07-21-2010).]

Do some searches using the term [ weight jacking ]

Norm

There is a front air suspension kit available from Airbagit.com (compressor and accessories not included) for $300.

http://www.airbagit.com/product-p/fbx-f-pon-10.htm

Nelson

Wow airbags! How would this work for handling? Do they roll?
Would be nice to have the ability to raise the car to get out of bad driveways!

What do you guys think of the airbag kit?

Here is a fiero that was setup with a "weight jack" kit.
http://www.martinwhite.name/fiero/wj.html
I had seen this one before but was NOT interested in the design. Just seems a bit thrown together for my taste. The only good point IMO is the relatively easy adjustement it provides. Should be pretty easy to accomplish with the right tools if one were so inclined.

I also found this which is very close to what I've been looking for. Part number 85500a...
http://www.daymotorsports.c...t/352/SPRING-SPACERS
Upper bumper stop (cone) removed and this spacer welded in its place. It may be possible they will fit over the cone but only one way to find out for sure. If they do then they would be a "bolt on" upgrade. I think welding the upper portion in would give an easier time making adjustments though. The low profile would give almost no lift on lowest setting. When used with lowering springs, cut stock springs, drop spindles, or drop ball joints should give a ~2.5" adjustment range. Basically the ability to fine tune your ride height by raising it to where you want it. They are the correct diameter to fit fiero springs, which is a first I've ever found. Price point is also good @ $60 + shipping for the set. I'm going to order up a set and I'll post my results after I have time to install them. Wish me luck!!

Depending on how these mount it may be possible to reinforce the upper and lower mount points to add short shocks inside the springs for an in-coil shock setup. The travel distances will need to be measured and a suitable sized shock would need to be found. Again, only one way to find out for sure and not necissary for ride height adjustment.

[This message has been edited by Fieroseverywhere (edited 07-22-2010).]

http://www.rccspecialty.com/

quote Originally posted by Fieroseverywhere: Here is a fiero that was setup with a "weight jack" kit. http://www.martinwhite.name/fiero/wj.html I had seen this one before but was NOT interested in the design. Just seems a bit thrown together for my taste. The only good point IMO is the relatively easy adjustement it provides. Should be pretty easy to accomplish with the right tools if one were so inclined. I also found this which is very close to what I've been looking for. Part number 85500a... http://www.daymotorsports.c...t/352/SPRING-SPACERS Upper bumper stop (cone) removed and this spacer welded in its place. It may be possible they will fit over the cone but only one way to find out for sure. If they do then they would be a "bolt on" upgrade. I think welding the upper portion in would give an easier time making adjustments though. The low profile would give almost no lift on lowest setting. When used with lowering springs, cut stock springs, drop spindles, or drop ball joints should give a ~2.5" adjustment range. Basically the ability to fine tune your ride height by raising it to where you want it. They are the correct diameter to fit fiero springs, which is a first I've ever found. Price point is also good @ $60 + shipping for the set. I'm going to order up a set and I'll post my results after I have time to install them. Wish me luck!! Depending on how these mount it may be possible to reinforce the upper and lower mount points to add short shocks inside the springs for an in-coil shock setup. The travel distances will need to be measured and a suitable sized shock would need to be found. Again, only one way to find out for sure and not necissary for ride height adjustment.

I think the second option looks nice. The first is ok, but they guy put pics in upside down and sideways, makes it hard to see what the hell he is doing. As far as the daymortorsports spring spacers; I think they would go in place of the OEM bump stop. I would think the bump stop would have to be at least 3/4 cut out, then have the spacers inserted, then welded. I say 3/4 cut out, as I think it might be good to leave a lip from the factory bump stop to be used to weld the spacers to. Or leave in part of the bump stop so you can fit the spacers over it a bit, hammer the spacers in to proper position, and fill the gap. It would be very important to make sure they are set at the same angle as the factory bump stop. I think the best option for this would be to have a spare pre 88 cross member. Do the work. Make sure it measures to factory spec, then install it in to your car.

I can pick up a parts car in November, but have little funds tell then. Hopefully someone can find a cross-member, and experiment??

It would be nice to find a cost effective solution. I cut my factory springs for 3 inch lowering. All I could find for lowering springs were 1 inch.
I would not recommended cutting the factory springs. They are bouncy like a cheap low rider! It sucks!

So Fieroseverywhere: Your going to try the spring spacers?? It does look like the spring spacer # 85500A
might just fit in right over the lower section of the factory bump stop! That would be awesome!

[This message has been edited by Seanpaul (edited 07-22-2010).]

quote Originally posted by Fieroseverywhere: That is the price without shipping for ONE side. It would be almost $700 total and that does not include the compressor. If your lucky you wont run into any install problems that further add to the cost. Air bags would be nice for when they are needed but for most handling aspects they are far from ideal. Given the cost I would rather go with the sport suspension from Held. I'm also a bit leary that it says this kit is for all 84-88 fieros. Either they do not know about the differences in the front suspension on 88's or the kit is more universal and somehow works for both. Its nice to know that option is out there though. Thanks for posting it!

Fieroseverywhere, the air-bag cost is for one AXLE, not side and they state they would send certain brackets depending upon application so maybe they realize there is a difference between the years. I agree it looks like a good option for certain applications.

Seanpaul, most Fierophiles seem to think the cut-ff for cutting off the front springs is one coil for 1" (pun intended). If you add Rodeny's $60? lowering ball joints you've got 2" right there. You'd have to cut your bump stops as well obviously.

quote Originally posted by countach711: Fieroseverywhere, the air-bag cost is for one AXLE, not side and they state they would send certain brackets depending upon application so maybe they realize there is a difference between the years. I agree it looks like a good option for certain applications.

You may be right on that. The pic clearly shows parts to do both sides. The listing says one axel. Since there really are no axels to speak of I just assumed they meant one side. That would bring the cost down to a more reasonable level. Good catch!

Do you have pics of a cut bump stop? I'm assuming its hollow inside? ...and if you cut of the tip with the rubber stop, what do you do then?
I'm currently bottoming out when i hit bumps. if I remove the stop, wont I just mess up the control arms, or brake a bracket?

You actually have to make 2 cuts per side. Ideally you want to remove a 3/4-1" section out of the middle and weld the bottom portion back on. Yes, they are hollow in the middle. Here is the portion of my build thread where we did it...

quote While we had everything in the shop we raised the bumpstops. I figured you guys might get a kick out of how we did this... Gas power chop saw! Gotta love power tools. Bumpstops cut and about 1 inch of metal removed, now we weld them back together followed by zinc primer (sound familiar?) and paint.

And the WCF procedure as a referance...
http://www.westcoastfiero.c...front_bump_stop.html

Also notice the bumpstops are indeed spot welded on. If complete removeal is necissary it won't be hard to accomplish. Just have to figure out a new bumpstop to add back in. Plobably figure a way to re-use the old one for this.

[This message has been edited by Fieroseverywhere (edited 07-22-2010).]

So when you're making that cut. Do you keep the cut at 90 angle with the bump stop, or the cross-member? Is there any room for error?

quote Originally posted by Seanpaul: So when you're making that cut. Do you keep the cut at 90 angle with the bump stop, or the cross-member? Is there any room for error?

The straighter the better but it doesn't have to be perfect. If it is cut at a slight angle you can simply rotate the bump stop before re-welding to make it straight again. Just make sure both cuts are at the same angle. If done right its not likely your going to be hitting it often anyway.

Spacers ordered today. Should be in mid next week sometime. I'm looking forward to installing them and losing the rubber spacers.

[This message has been edited by Fieroseverywhere (edited 07-23-2010).]

quote Originally posted by Seanpaul: Looks interesting. But I hate web sites that tell you what they say you can do, and give you a price with out pictures! I NEED PICTURES! They just expect me to buy something I've never seen?

There are pictures of the RCC setup on this forum. They're lower control arms are caster-adjustable, but I don't like their upper spring mount method. When I go to coil overs, I'll probably use RCC LCA's with Held/West Shore UCA's and upper shock mounts.

quote Originally posted by Will: There are pictures of the RCC setup on this forum. They're lower control arms are caster-adjustable, but I don't like their upper spring mount method. When I go to coil overs, I'll probably use RCC LCA's with Held/West Shore UCA's and upper shock mounts.

Humm that's interesting. So the HMS lower control arms are not camber adjustable, how do they expect you to set camber?
So the HMS and RCC control arms are compatible? Does any one have links to pics of these items?

[This message has been edited by Seanpaul (edited 07-26-2010).]

You could always just do what Fire451 did, he is one of my friends in our local Fiero Club.

http://westcoastfieros.com/...?TID=1963&PN=1&TPN=1

Might be a little over the top, but allows you to adjust ride height without even having to get out of the car.

------------------
85GT Soon to be 87GT,93 Eldorado 4.9, 5spd Dual O2 Custom Chip, Custom Exhaust. MSD Everything Capt Fiero --- My Over View Cadero Pics Yellow 88GT 5spd Full Poly Suspension, Lowered 1/2" in front, Corner Carver.

My camera phone sucks but here is the set up on my rally car:



It needs a bit more shock travel. Be good for track and smooth roads, but it's murder on potholes. Very rough off road I have to rebuild the rear section of the lower control arm setup due to a huge bump, so it is not in the picture. BTW my set up came from RCC but I bought it used for like $450 or something. Thinking I may ditch it and build a long travel suspension similar to 2wd desert buggies...

[This message has been edited by topher_time (edited 07-26-2010).]

both the RCC setup and the HT motorsport sport front end kits need drop spindles or rodneys drop spindles .they just do not have enough travel with the supplied carrera coilovers with 8" springs .i have owned both setups .i use the HT setup with street dreams by ross spindles .you can see pics in my thread "ecotec swap" in the construction zone .

If you have an idea of what length, weight and shape spring you want, give these guys a call.
http://www.bluecoilspring.com/

quote Originally posted by wftb: both the RCC setup and the HT motorsport sport front end kits need drop spindles or rodneys drop spindles .they just do not have enough travel with the supplied carrera coilovers with 8" springs .i have owned both setups .i use the HT setup with street dreams by ross spindles .you can see pics in my thread "ecotec swap" in the construction zone .

So if either kits doesn't give you the desired lowering rate, then would it be most cost effective to simply use lowering springs, with drop spindles?