No gas coming out of the vacuum line of the FPR into the intake right?

It only fires on WOT????? Correct? That has me scratching my head big time.

Pull the fuel pump fuse and see if you can start it and keep it running on starting fluid.

I've tried the starting fluid thing before with no luck, and also I sucked on the FPR vacuum line and got no give or gas in my mouth.

Do you mean the car will not run on starting fluid? Does it die out like in the video? Is that what you mean by 'no luck'? IF that is the case then the problem may not be in the fuel system at all.....

I've tried the starting fluid thing before with no luck, and also I sucked on the FPR vacuum line and got no give or gas in my mouth.

Changed the oil this afternoon and attempted to start the car a few times,and you can tell a big difference in how it turns over. It's not as fast and you can tell its got compression now. But would not start. I didn't mess with it long, but any suggestions?

One suggestion.

If the engine will not run with starter fluid being sprayed on the air filter then I would try it without the filter. Hope this helps.

I tried it directly into the throttle body and I also have a code 42.

I'm sure you know about a code 42, but just for the record:

There are several reasons any of these conditions can occur. The most obvious is a faulty ignition module. Check all wires coming from the ignition module. Also check your sparkplug wires. Because a high voltage is applied to the sparkplug wires, there could be electro-magnetic interference. Replace sparkplug wires or try rerouting them.

Hmm. Well, my plugs, wires, icm, coil, cap, and rotor are all new.

I have not heard of a bad new Delco ICM, but just about every other brand has had quality problems and can be bad right out of the box or within days of installation. Usually it is heat related, so your symptoms are unusual. Sorry to say that in this case 'new' does not mean much. Even the testing protocol at the auto supply store is not foolproof....they can test good and still create problems on the car. With all the work you have done on your car there may have been extra electrical stress.

Code 42 deals with the handoff of the electrical timing from the ICM to the ECM. Does the 4 wire connector to the ICM look good?

quote Originally posted by 86FIFI: Hmm. Well, my plugs, wires, icm, coil, cap, and rotor are all new.

What brand/quality parts? I've seen cheap parts (plug wires in particular) run like crap right out of the box. It's getting harder & harder to find good ignition components. The chinese are laughing all the way to the bank (& world domination).
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

Custom Fiberglass Parts

Most stuff is ac delco, but my icm may be bwd (oreillys brand)

BWD is Borg Warner, but it's made in either Mexico or China. Assuming the ICM is good, check the ICM harness connectors very closely. One of our local guys fought a start-up/no-run condition on a car he was restoring. He had worked on for months and months. Would fire off then die and it would run with spray into the intake. Turned out that one of the wires in the 4 wire harness had backed partially out of the connector and had lost contact with the pin on the ICM.

Actually the 4 wire ICM connector is a front load - pull to seat connector.

[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 12-16-2011).]

They will back out away from the ICM pin. I was the one who found it. I pushed it back in, sprung the contacts a little and pushed it back into the clip. Car started right up. He had previously replaced the connector because the clip had broken. In order to replace the connector, you have to be able to take the clips out the back side.

To remove the pins from the ICM connector first you have to remove the rubber seal from the back of the connector. Then you have to slid the removal tool from the back side to unlatch the tang. Then you slide the wire forward till the metal terminal clears the plastic connector shell.

To load, you thread the wire through the seal and plastic connector and then you crimp the metal terminal to the end of the wire. Then you pull the wire backwards into the terminal till it clicks and stops. Finally you push the seal up from the backside till it is flush.

You can not pull the terminal out the backside unless somehow the plastic shell is broken.

The main reason GM went to a front loading design was to prevent any possibility of the metal terminals from being pushed backwards in the connector and then being out of position.

This IS a Fiero ICM 4 pin connector with the Purple/White wire pushed forward and out of position. It IS a pull to seat connector.

[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 12-16-2011).]

I don't remember if the green weather seal was loose or not, but the locking tangs weren't holding. Looking into the front end, I could see that a couple of the wires were recessed more than the other two. After removing the wire, springing the locking tab and the contact area and reinserting it, it stayed in place. He had given up on getting the car started over 2 years ago and had just recently began working on it again. As soon as we plugged the repaired connector back to the ICM, it fired off.

The problem I found with mine was that one of the pin locks had broken on one pin and the other on the connector. That allowed the pins to be pushed out the back when the plug was inserted into the ICM. It took the replacement of the connector and pins to fix the situation. A lingering problem for 2 years solved after 15 minutes with FieroFool's help!

Well I will inspect the connector when I get a chance. You guys seem to think that's my problem. It's weird that it ran just fine before.

idk if it is the no run problem, I just know code 42 means an ICM to ECM problem.

Anything else to check other than the connector?

I just got in on the last page but if your car doesn't fire with fuel sprayed into the intake, you can eliminate fuel as the problem. Only two things left ignition and compression. Compression won't suddenly change so I would look at the ignition. Bad connection, bad components or ignition timing. I didn't read your thread before because I thought that fifi was a hurricane.

[This message has been edited by dratts (edited 12-18-2011).]

FIFI will be a hurricane one day!

Well this isn't good! IF YOU DO NOT LIKE PROFANITY DO NOT WATCH! We attempted to turn the car over and this is what happened. And if I try and turn it over now it sounds like a rolling chain or metal rolling around. This is very weird. All I did was check my wires on my icm and added a little oil since I just changed the oil and it had the visvocity of water just about. And then this.

http://static.photobucket.c...142008/VIDEO0031.mp4

This was very strange indeed. Whatever it was, when it happened i felt it in the driver seat it was so violent. It seems like something was under stress/tension and popped somewhat. As Matt said we pulled the valve cover and had a look around. One of the rocker arms had bout 3/4 inch of play between it and the push rod. We adjusted the play correctly then turned the engine over by hand. The first initial turn felt like some sort of metal hitting or moving around, difficult to explain. After that it felt normal and all the valves seemed to move correctly. We also pulled the distributor to have a look around and didnt see anything abnormal although couldn't see much.

I guess the next thing would be to pull the other valve cover and then spark plugs to check piston movement as well.

Any ideas on Wat might have popped?

flywheel teeth? Starter Bendix?

Could have been detonation as well. Your distributor could be 180 degrees out of phase, or your plug wires in the wrong order.

Found the popping noise.

quote Originally posted by Gall757: flywheel teeth? Starter Bendix?

Was just about to do a search to see how you were doing. Did you reinstall the starter shim when you put the starter on?

By starter shim, do you mean the metal piece that went from one bolt to the other? It fell and I was like where did that come from, and I finally settled on fitting it from one bolt to another between the starter and the mount. So if that is right then yes I did reinstall it. Turned the car over and there was now grinding noise, but the battery was very low so not much happened. I may be picking up an 87 gt that is Disassembled this weekend and it needs a fuel pump, but the owner has already bought one and the tank has been dropped. I know the owner of the car very well and he is getting to old to work on them. He wand $500. I plan on getting it and reassemblig it and selling it for a profit, and unfortunately I may have to sell my car. Obviously not for a profit, but the mileage on my truck is over 200000 miles and I am trying to do a motor swap and transmission rebuild on it. All going to be done by the dealership for reliability sakes. I have to keep my priorities in order. I really would like to get my car running before I sold so I can get a little closer to what I have in it, and just for the joy of it running. I don't know what to ask for it, so i would really be open to suggestions, but I will continue to mess with it.

Yes, that's the shim I'm talking about. I've had starter housings break on the 3.4's swap but never on a 2.8. I was really rooting for you to get the problem worked out. Maybe you should go back to the stock intake setup. Retrace what you did in the ECM swap.

It's worth a shot I guess. But the thing about the ECM swap, is that I drove the car after I did it, and it was the most reliable since I have had the car. I still had a couple issues, but it was an improvement. And I don't understand how or what I could have done replacing the intake manifold to cause the car to not start. I did a lot at once, but nothing that would cause it to not start IMO. I took out the cold start and all its components and plugged them all, and got rid of the water lines on the throttle body. That was it.

It's probably an improper shim on the starter. Your new starter may engage the flywheel too much and bind a bit. You can buy a pack of shims for the starter and add some, which will move the starter away from the flywheel.

I am trying with the same starter, not a new one.

If you're using the starter that piece you're holding came from, it won't start. There's nothing to hold the armature centered in the fields and it's a direct contact short between the armature and field windings.