Evening Fiero Folks! Hope everyone is having a great weekend so far. I'm getting ready to do another 3800 SC swap and was roaming the yard today looking for donor parts. I ran across a 96 Rivy / with a SC motor. Would this be of the "HD" version? Thanks in advance!

Pat

[This message has been edited by katatak (edited 03-26-2011).]

IIRC all series II 3800 supercharged engines were mated to HD transmissions, but the final drive ratios were different.

See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_4T65_transmission

*edit* my apologies, so tired I didn't specify supercharged

[This message has been edited by jasonfox (edited 03-27-2011).]

First, ya can't blindly trust wiki.
Second, only the supercharged versions ( L67 & L32 ) got the 4T65E-HD.
By '98, all L67 had the HD, while all N/A ( L36 & L26 ) had a 4T65E ( non-HD )
Even the plain 4T65E is heavier-duty than the 4T60E
L36 & L26 never got the 4T65E-HD
4T65E-HD only came with L67, L32, & LS4.
'98-'09, 4T65E was being produced along-side 4T65E-HD.
The '96 Riviera would be a 4T60E, unless it has been swapped.

[This message has been edited by Isolde (edited 03-27-2011).]

had I not been so tired, I would have stated the supercharged 3800's. my apologies.

Also I do not blindly trust wikipedia, but that is a fairly good source of information.

As is http://www.gmtuners.com and the search function here.

[This message has been edited by jasonfox (edited 03-27-2011).]

It's always been my understanding that the only difference between the HD and the non-HD is the differential, differential cover and passenger side axle. You can actually turn a non-HD into an HD with the tranny still in the car. You just remove the pass side axle, then the diff cover, then the diff. Then replace those three parts with the HD version.

All 4T65-E transmissions that were ever mated to a 3800 Supercharged engine (Series 2 or 3) from 1997 and onward were all HD units.

1996 was the only year the 4T60-E HD transmission was used with the 3800 Series 2 Supercharged engine, and it was ONLY used with the 3800 Series 2 Supercharged engine. That 96 Riviera you found will have this transmission.

1997 was the first year the 4T65-E (and HD) transmissions were introduced. 1997 was the last year the 4T60-E transmission was used with the 3800 Series 2 non-supercharged V6 (but it continued to be used with other engines thru the 1999 model year. It was not used in 2000 model year and never vehicles).

A couple of other useful facts / FYI:

If you are using any 4T65-E (HD or non) that was manufactured in or after the 2003 model year, you MUST use a 2003 or newer PCM. Earlier PCMs are not compatible with these newer transmissions because of an electrical change GM made inside of the transmission. If you get a 2002-older 4T65-E (or HD) transmission, you can use any 1997-2002 Supercharged 3800 PCM with it or any 1998-2002 non-supercharged 3800 PCM with it.

If you get the engine/transmission out of this 1996 Riviera you found, you must also use the 1996 PCM from the same car (or another 1996 Supercharged 3800 car). 1997-newer 3800 Supercharged PCMs will not work with the 4T60-E HD trans the 96 Riviera has.

-ryan

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quote Originally posted by Darth Fiero: 1996 was the only year the 4T60-E HD transmission was used with the 3800 Series 2 Supercharged engine, and it was ONLY used with the 3800 Series 2 Supercharged engine. That 96 Riviera you found will have this transmission. -ryan

I stand corrected. And happily. Education is good. Free education is great!
However, in the 14 years since the car left the assembly line, it could have been swapped.Ya never know what the car's previous owner(s) did.

quote Originally posted by Darth Fiero: All 4T65-E transmissions that were ever mated to a 3800 Supercharged engine (Series 2 or 3) from 1997 and onward were all HD units. 1996 was the only year the 4T60-E HD transmission was used with the 3800 Series 2 Supercharged engine, and it was ONLY used with the 3800 Series 2 Supercharged engine. That 96 Riviera you found will have this transmission. 1997 was the first year the 4T65-E (and HD) transmissions were introduced. 1997 was the last year the 4T60-E transmission was used with the 3800 Series 2 non-supercharged V6 (but it continued to be used with other engines thru the 1999 model year. It was not used in 2000 model year and never vehicles). A couple of other useful facts / FYI: If you are using any 4T65-E (HD or non) that was manufactured in or after the 2003 model year, you MUST use a 2003 or newer PCM. Earlier PCMs are not compatible with these newer transmissions because of an electrical change GM made inside of the transmission. If you get a 2002-older 4T65-E (or HD) transmission, you can use any 1997-2002 Supercharged 3800 PCM with it or any 1998-2002 non-supercharged 3800 PCM with it. If you get the engine/transmission out of this 1996 Riviera you found, you must also use the 1996 PCM from the same car (or another 1996 Supercharged 3800 car). 1997-newer 3800 Supercharged PCMs will not work with the 4T60-E HD trans the 96 Riviera has. -ryan

Thanks to everyone for your replies. Any and all things I can learn help me in my search for swap parts.

Ryan,

I picked up a 2000 3800SC out of a Bonny. Motor and trans will be used. Mike Gonzales is doing the harness and I wil be sending the PCM to you. The reason I ask is that I am looking for Axles for my swap and was wondering if the 96 Rivy (with the 4t60eHD) would have the same axles as the 97/98 Regal 4t65eHD axles. I located a couple 97/98 Regals today so I can get the axles I need from these. Thanks for chiming in.

Pat

quote Originally posted by katatak: I picked up a 2000 3800SC out of a Bonny. Motor and trans will be used. Mike Gonzales is doing the harness and I wil be sending the PCM to you. The reason I ask is that I am looking for Axles for my swap and was wondering if the 96 Rivy (with the 4t60eHD) would have the same axles as the 97/98 Regal 4t65eHD axles. I located a couple 97/98 Regals today so I can get the axles I need from these. Thanks for chiming in. Pat

Pat, I want to say the Riviera axles won't work. While they may install into the 4T65-E HD you have, the type of bearing that is used inside of the tripot ends (that install into the transmission) is a different style and is not compatible with the other axle parts that will be needed to build your custom axles to work in the Fiero.

You will need a set of inner tripot ends from a W-body car that came with the 4T65-E HD (so basically 1997-newer Grand Prix GTP & Regal GS, and 2004-2005 Impala SS & Monte Carlo SS).

-ryan