What throttle body do you guys think I should run? I have the L26 intake~ Also what MAF should I be using?

[This message has been edited by Steel (edited 05-25-2011).]

I like stock 99-03 throttle bodies, with stock maf sensors, with a fixed ratio AFC on it. Plenty of headroom, minimal games, and I can just send you anything you need to get it working in the PCM.

I have my turbo mounted above the trans and A2W intercooler on the firewall behind the driver's seat.
I drive my car to work all the time and take it on trips (12 to 30 hours round trip), so I really didn't want to give up the trunk space.
I have my boost controller set to 18psi on 93 octane for daily driving.
With the turbo mounted above the trans it is easy to put a large cool air intake in the quarter panel. The down side to this is my car sounds like a jet fighter taking off when I go into boost. I'll try to get the laptop out in the next couple of weeks to get some scans. You can look at my air intake temps and decide for yourself if you want to use a cold air intake.

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: The problem with "cold air intakes" is the fact you are losing flow trying to tuck a tube somewhere in some random place that you can fit this tiny filter... when you could just slap a filter that will flow the amount of air you want with no restriction, (note most air filters are flow rated at xxx restriction). The "cold air" you get from that cold air intake is only going to lower the temperature of the air going into your engine by 2-3 degrees, maybe... and due to the fact that a turbo works on mass flow, you will not gain or lose power based on the lower temperature intake air.

Care you share your temperature measurements that demonstrate these claims? I have unshakable confidence that you would never talk out your ass and make a claim like this without data to back it up.

FACT: higher temperature air is less dense than lower temperature air at the same pressure.

Since a turbo is regulated based on *CONSTANT MANIFOLD PRESSURE*, higher temperature => lower density => lower mass flow => less power
Obviously, higher temps also make an engine more likely to experience detonation.

The only engine management I've ever heard of regulating boost pressure based on mass flow is the Neon SRT-4.

If any "restriction" is present in an intake tube, the tube is too small. However, if you run through the math (assuming adiabatic operation for simplicity), differences intake temperature at the turbo inlet are MULTIPLIED through the turbo. IE, a 10 degree drop in the intake temp can yield a 20 degree drop in the compressor discharge temp.

HOWEVER, there are lots of real-world variables that come into play... not the least of which is that the compressor is bolted almost directly to a red-hot exhaust turbine.

ALSO, the unique airflow situation present in a Fiero means that you have to pay a lot of attention to heat rejection in the system. Think about where the airflow through the engine compartment comes from. A significant portion of the airflow under the car, up through the engine compartment and out the engine compartment vents *ALREADY WENT THROUGH THE RADIATOR*. IE, it's well above ambient temp and contributes to heat soaking of the intercooler and piping.

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 05-25-2011).]

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: I like stock 99-03 throttle bodies, with stock maf sensors, with a fixed ratio AFC on it. Plenty of headroom, minimal games, and I can just send you anything you need to get it working in the PCM.

Okay so a 99-03 is that an L67 TB or L36? I'm going to hit the parts yard up tomorrow and pick one up.

quote Originally posted by Steel: Okay so a 99-03 is that an L67 TB or L36? I'm going to hit the parts yard up tomorrow and pick one up.

L67.

Is there a vendor that makes an adapter to put an L67 TB on the L26 intake? I looked around ZZP's site but I don't see one.

quote Originally posted by Steel: Is there a vendor that makes an adapter to put an L67 TB on the L26 intake? I looked around ZZP's site but I don't see one.

I made my own. ZZP sells one http://www.zzperformance.co...php?id=255&catid=113

------------------
Turbo 3800 E85 5spd spec5
11.53@126.7

Hmm okay I think I'll try your method I have some aluminum here that should work.. would be nice to save a few bucks. Thanks for the pic~~

quote Originally posted by Will: Care you share your temperature measurements that demonstrate these claims? I have unshakable confidence that you would never talk out your ass and make a claim like this without data to back it up. FACT: higher temperature air is less dense than lower temperature air at the same pressure. Since a turbo is regulated based on *CONSTANT MANIFOLD PRESSURE*, higher temperature => lower density => lower mass flow => less power Obviously, higher temps also make an engine more likely to experience detonation. The only engine management I've ever heard of regulating boost pressure based on mass flow is the Neon SRT-4.

Well, your problem is the fact that you are forgetting that intake temperature has nothing to do with outside temperature (I already mentioned this). The fact that outside temperature effects your intercooler none, and your compressor function very little (as it is a multiplicative effect at the compressor, not exponential, you mentioned this), the wastegate mechanics will always have more variance than the air temperature would ever have. The problem with your multiplicative math, is where you are introducing the multiplication. I said it is non exponential, which means it needs to be applied AFTER all of the other "discounts" are applied, otherwise that would be considered exponential, or a "rate" per say (sorry, I code insurance rating systems all day). This "bonus cooling" is reduced significantly as the majority of the "heat" is still coming from the compressor. Hopefully you can understand this.

I have observed (because I actually built many turbo systems) many times on my car running low boost that the cold weather just makes my wastegate tax more causing higher boost creating more power, but it has everything to do with intercooler temps and not intake temps.

quote If any "restriction" is present in an intake tube, the tube is too small. However, if you run through the math (assuming adiabatic operation for simplicity), differences intake temperature at the turbo inlet are MULTIPLIED through the turbo. IE, a 10 degree drop in the intake temp can yield a 20 degree drop in the compressor discharge temp. HOWEVER, there are lots of real-world variables that come into play... not the least of which is that the compressor is bolted almost directly to a red-hot exhaust turbine. ALSO, the unique airflow situation present in a Fiero means that you have to pay a lot of attention to heat rejection in the system. Think about where the airflow through the engine compartment comes from. A significant portion of the airflow under the car, up through the engine compartment and out the engine compartment vents *ALREADY WENT THROUGH THE RADIATOR*. IE, it's well above ambient temp and contributes to heat soaking of the intercooler and piping.

The problem with intakes is never the actual tube size, although it could be a factor. The real issue is always the filter as there is simply an implied "tolerance" of restriction in airfilters.

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: The problem with intakes is never the actual tube size, although it could be a factor. The real issue is always the filter as there is simply an implied "tolerance" of restriction in airfilters.

I'll bite. When it comes to induction tubing, size does matter. Especially when you're not pushing boost thru it. Bigger diameter tubes will move more air at atmospheric pressures than smaller tubes will, period. You should already know this. Of course, there is a point you will reach where going bigger doesn't always help.

Getting your engine (or turbo) a cooler, cleaner source of air is ALWAYS better than giving it hot air to breathe in. It is no different when you are turbo or supercharging, even if you have an intercooler. Higher ambient air temps translate into higher charge temps, period. Will correctly stated that higher air temps = less dense air. The less dense the air, the harder your turbo will need to work to produce the same boost levels (vs. if it had access too cooler, denser air). Working your turbo harder means your compressor outlet charge temps increase as well. By how much depends on the turbo you are using, of course.

So you're running an intercooler... Putting hotter air thru it means the air coming out of it will be warmer than if you could put cooler air into it in the first place. The intercooler is only going to be able to remove so much heat from the charge air. I don't care what intercooler you are running; the outlet temp of that intercooler is always going to depend on the temp of the air going into it.

This really is basic performance knowledge. The cooler the air you can feed the engine (and turbo) with, the more performance you can get out of it. Of course, we are talking real-world temperatures here.

-ryan

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: Well, your problem is the fact that you are forgetting that intake temperature has nothing to do with outside temperature (I already mentioned this). The fact that outside temperature effects your intercooler none, and your compressor function very little (as it is a multiplicative effect at the compressor, not exponential, you mentioned this), the wastegate mechanics will always have more variance than the air temperature would ever have. The problem with your multiplicative math, is where you are introducing the multiplication. I said it is non exponential, which means it needs to be applied AFTER all of the other "discounts" are applied, otherwise that would be considered exponential, or a "rate" per say (sorry, I code insurance rating systems all day). This "bonus cooling" is reduced significantly as the majority of the "heat" is still coming from the compressor. Hopefully you can understand this. I have observed (because I actually built many turbo systems) many times on my car running low boost that the cold weather just makes my wastegate tax more causing higher boost creating more power, but it has everything to do with intercooler temps and not intake temps. The problem with intakes is never the actual tube size, although it could be a factor. The real issue is always the filter as there is simply an implied "tolerance" of restriction in airfilters.

Ambient temp affects EVERY aspect of intake temperature. Intake air *STARTS* as ambient air. The intercooler dumps its heat to ambient air. The radiator dumps its heat to ambient air. Discharge temps from both heat exchangers are strongly dependant on the temperature of the air to which they are flowing heat.

Colder air = greater mass flow at the same pressure.
Due to the large addition of heat via combusted fuel, intake temps don't have a significant effect on EGT's. This means that the larger mass flow at a given boost level results in a larger VOLUME flow out the exhaust *AND* a greater amount of heat to drive the turbine. The wastegate is going to open more under those conditions because the difference between energy availabe to drive the turbine and energy required by the tubine is greater than it is in warmer weather. Please explain how the greater wastegate opening affects intake temp.

Deming: "In God we trust; all others bring data"

quote Originally posted by Will: Ambient temp affects EVERY aspect of intake temperature. Intake air *STARTS* as ambient air. The intercooler dumps its heat to ambient air. The radiator dumps its heat to ambient air. Discharge temps from both heat exchangers are strongly dependant on the temperature of the air to which they are flowing heat. Colder air = greater mass flow at the same pressure. Due to the large addition of heat via combusted fuel, intake temps don't have a significant effect on EGT's. This means that the larger mass flow at a given boost level results in a larger VOLUME flow out the exhaust *AND* a greater amount of heat to drive the turbine. The wastegate is going to open more under those conditions because the difference between energy availabe to drive the turbine and energy required by the tubine is greater than it is in warmer weather. Please explain how the greater wastegate opening affects intake temp. Deming: "In God we trust; all others bring data"

If I can manage to pull some scans off of my old-semi-broken laptop, I can bring some data to help emphasize this point. I remember comparing scans of two quarter-mile passes. One being on a 60-degree and low humidity day and the other on an 80-degree high humidity night. The maximum flow difference and also the flow difference at the same psi was pretty big.

EDIT: I managed to pull them off my old laptop.

Run#1
IAT- 70*
Flow at 200kPa-45.97lbs/min

Run#2
IAT- 79*
Flow at 200kPa-43.82lbs/min

So at a given boost level (200kPa= ~14.7psi), I lost around 2lbs of airflow at a 9* temp change. I looked at some other scans and I found this to be the largest variance.

[This message has been edited by AkursedX (edited 05-26-2011).]

quote Originally posted by tampalinc: I have my turbo mounted above the trans and A2W intercooler on the firewall behind the driver's seat. I drive my car to work all the time and take it on trips (12 to 30 hours round trip), so I really didn't want to give up the trunk space. I have my boost controller set to 18psi on 93 octane for daily driving. With the turbo mounted above the trans it is easy to put a large cool air intake in the quarter panel. The down side to this is my car sounds like a jet fighter taking off when I go into boost. I'll try to get the laptop out in the next couple of weeks to get some scans. You can look at my air intake temps and decide for yourself if you want to use a cold air intake.

You got video of this? out side in side? I wanna hear this jet fighter?

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: I like stock 99-03 throttle bodies, with stock maf sensors, with a fixed ratio AFC on it. Plenty of headroom, minimal games, and I can just send you anything you need to get it working in the PCM.

Is this the fixed AFC you were talking about? http://zzperformance.com/gr...roducts1.php?id=1066

Should I look for a TB with the MAF screen? I know of two locally for $10 with sensors but they don't have the MAF screens in them.. I don't know how important the screens really are though.

quote Originally posted by AkursedX: If I can manage to pull some scans off of my old-semi-broken laptop, I can bring some data to help emphasize this point. I remember comparing scans of two quarter-mile passes. One being on a 60-degree and low humidity day and the other on an 80-degree high humidity night. The maximum flow difference and also the flow difference at the same psi was pretty big. EDIT: I managed to pull them off my old laptop. Run#1 IAT- 70* Flow at 200kPa-45.97lbs/min Run#2 IAT- 79* Flow at 200kPa-43.82lbs/min So at a given boost level (200kPa= ~14.7psi), I lost around 2lbs of airflow at a 9* temp change. I looked at some other scans and I found this to be the largest variance.

Humidty further reduces density. Hot wet air is less dense than hot dry air. Cool dry air vs. hot wet air will have the largest difference in density.

Also, the map sensor maxes out at 200kpa, so you could have pushed over it and not known. As I said before, you will typically get more wastegate variance than you would ever see in air temperature variance.

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: Also, the map sensor maxes out at 200kpa, so you could have pushed over it and not known. As I said before, you will typically get more wastegate variance than you would ever see in air temperature variance.

Of course I pushed it over. My readings are from where I 1st reached that point. I checked the variance at 150kPa and it was roughly the same.

quote Originally posted by Will: Humidity further reduces density. Hot wet air is less dense than hot dry air. Cool dry air vs. hot wet air will have the largest difference in density.

Truth.

And mass flow might not be very accurate when looking that close at things. Also, you dont know what your post and pre intercooler temps are either.

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: And mass flow might not be very accurate when looking that close at things. Also, you dont know what your post and pre intercooler temps are either.

Check out this guy asking for data. Now you're just bullshitting to try to save face.

So how does wastegate actuation affect intake temperature?

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 05-27-2011).]

Well if you run the front exhaust under the oil pan you could mount a IC by the starter and it will have good air flow when your moving since our cars are made to suck air from there through the grills.

quote Originally posted by red85gt: Well if you run the front exhaust under the oil pan you could mount a IC by the starter and it will have good air flow when your moving since our cars are made to suck air from there through the grills.

You mean like this:





This is something I put together for the Turbo swap I did for AkursedX a few years ago.

-ryan

Yeah! that looks like the perfect spot for it. Unless you have the car slammed into the ground and a chin spoiler that cuts off all the air flow like a nascar there should be plenty of air flow there.

[This message has been edited by red85gt (edited 05-28-2011).]

quote Originally posted by red85gt: Well if you run the front exhaust under the oil pan you could mount a IC by the starter and it will have good air flow when your moving since our cars are made to suck air from there through the grills.

quote Originally posted by Darth Fiero: You mean like this: http://www.gmtuners.com/Cus...rbo/IC_installed.jpg http://www.gmtuners.com/Cus...bo/IC_deflector2.jpg This is something I put together for the Turbo swap I did for AkursedX a few years ago. -ryan

quote Originally posted by red85gt: Yeah! that looks like the perfect spot for it. Unless you have the car slammed into the ground and a chin spoiler that cuts off all the air flow like a nascar there should be plenty of air flow there.

Keep in mind that a significant fraction of the air going under the car has already passed over the radiator and been warmed significantly.

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 05-31-2011).]

quote Originally posted by Will: Keep in mind that a significant fraction of the air going under the car has already passed over the radiator and been warmed significantly.

Not to mention 90 degrees is a pretty hard turn to make at any speed for rushing air without the help of a deflector and from my experience with a small electric cooling fan (because there are tell tell signs the intercooler in the picture has them) on my oil cooler in the same area only with a more friendly angle that eclipsed the air stream, I would suspect without data to show otherwise, small fans pulling air through the intercooler in that location are probably operating at a deficit, using more energy than they are recovering with what little cooling benefit they can provide, factoring in the added heat that has already been mentioned.

I let my engine idle for minutes with the oil cooler fan running continuously and I could see no difference with it on or off, so I took it off. I'm not saying having the intercooler in place at that location is worthless, only that without data on its current performance it may not be that significant.

My inlet temps at cruising speed without an intercooler run between 130-140 deg depending on the ambient temperature, after it leaves the turbo. At around 8 psi inlet temps hit about 175 degrees. If your inlet temps are close to mine with an intercooler in that location then it stands to reason it's not worth its weight, additional plumbing and added restriction to airflow.

quote Originally posted by Will: Keep in mind that a significant fraction of the air going under the car has already passed over the radiator and been warmed significantly.

Not as much as you might think. There is a LOT of volume of air traveling under the car at speed. At lower speeds, more of the air that has been heated by the radiator will be able to get to the intercooler in this location; that I will agree with. But as the car travels faster, more and more "fresh" air is squeezed under the car. Also, at higher speeds more air travels thru the radiator more quickly which means it won't pick up as much heat.

quote Originally posted by Darth Fiero: So where else are you going to stick an intercooler where it is going to get direct airflow on a Fiero? -ryan

Remember I installed one up front that reduced inlet temps by at least 100 degrees. If I'd had the time and cared to invest in a different form of tubing to either completely enclose it in the rocker moldings or run it at a wider but thinner profile directly beneath the car I would have kept it in place. Otherwise, if the results are negligible you just don't install an intercooler at all.

quote Originally posted by Darth Fiero: Bottom line: somebody is going to have to install temp and pressure sensors in the inlet and outlets of all the different IC setups people are using on Fieros, collect data, and then compare the results to see which one is best for the Fiero. Until that is done, nobody can really say with any certainty that one setup works better than another. -ryan

That's all I'm getting at. A datalog of current inlet temps after the intercooler would be pretty helpful at this point and shouldn't be hard to get with a simple datalog.

Theory is almost always more optimistic than reality. I don't know much about later model F body car airflow over the radiator but unless the radiator is laying flat there really isn't much of a comparison, not even in the Fiero where the radiator sits at an angle that is far more optimal than the way that intercooler sits, not to mention the openning in the front GT bumper along with the trailing facia and paneling that helps to trap air into the radiator. The air has a partial direct path to it as it is except for what the bumper cover impedes.

The deflector in my understanding served more to prevent recirculation of hot air that had already passed through the radiator and in the picture with the intercooler it looks more like it is serving as an air brake. I considered this location for my intercooler recently but with a contoured scoop to skim the air passing under the car.

A low pressure condition should already exist underneath the car from the first deflector, limiting how much theoretical air is going to be present to make that 90 degree turn. Not trying to give you a hard time, I like the science and if you post numbers marginally better than mine it will save me the trouble of performing the same installation which I've been considering for a while now because it wouldn't be worth the trouble.

We Fiero owners are just too wimpy and panzified to do what the turbo MR2 community has been doing for a while now:

Trunk mount intercooler: http://www.mr2beast.com/tmic.htm

500 miles away from home I need my trunk and I doubt a $2200 intercooler swap is going to stand much of a chance against an engine swap to something more powerful instead for about the same price or less. The square aluminum stock I sourced on McMaster and a front mount IC would be much more effective and far less expensive. I'd probably have to go back to stock ride height though.

[This message has been edited by Joseph Upson (edited 06-01-2011).]

quote Originally posted by Darth Fiero: Bottom line: somebody is going to have to install temp and pressure sensors in the inlet and outlets of all the different IC setups people are using on Fieros, collect data, and then compare the results to see which one is best for the Fiero. Until that is done, nobody can really say with any certainty that one setup works better than another. What I do know is the setup I made was much more simple and lighter than a water-to-air setup, and probably cheaper too. And I know it works and won't fail as easily (don't have to worry about coolant leaking out or if a fluid pump quits working). -ryan

quote Originally posted by Joseph Upson: That's all I'm getting at. A datalog of current inlet temps after the intercooler would be pretty helpful at this point and shouldn't be hard to get with a simple datalog.

Exactly... This thread is useless without data!

quote Originally posted by Will: We Fiero owners are just too wimpy and panzified to do what the turbo MR2 community has been doing for a while now: Trunk mount intercooler: http://www.mr2beast.com/tmic.htm

I have thought about doing that...

quote Originally posted by Joseph Upson: The deflector in my understanding served more to prevent recirculation of hot air that had already passed through the radiator

Wrong. And you can find this out if you remove the deflector and drive down the highway. Hot air coming out of the radiator isn't going to be able to circulate forward under the car against the oncoming wind that’s trying to flow front-to-back under the car at highway speeds. But what you ARE going to find is nothing is going to stick down into that wind path under the car (with the deflector missing) to kick the air up into the radiator which is going to result in the cooling system not working properly. Take it off a car that really needs it and you will probably find out the car runs hot or maybe even wants to overheat on the highway. I’m sorry, but I think you just don’t understand how air dams work.

quote A low pressure condition should already exist underneath the car from the first deflector, limiting how much theoretical air is going to be present to make that 90 degree turn. Not trying to give you a hard time, I like the science and if you post numbers marginally better than mine it will save me the trouble of performing the same installation which I've been considering for a while now because it wouldn't be worth the trouble.

A more significant low pressure area would exist under the car behind the front air dam if that air dam was really close to the ground (within an inch or so). But a low pressure area exists behind the front tires, and the sides of the car under the rocker panels don’t sit on the ground either. So some air is going to flow into the underside of the car from the sides at speed as well. Since the Fiero's air dam and ground effects don't sit right on the ground (or very close to it - at least not in normal applications), air can still get under the car. I assure you, there is plenty of air flowing under the car.

quote I don't know much about later model F body car airflow over the radiator but unless the radiator is laying flat there really isn't much of a comparison, not even in the Fiero where the radiator sits at an angle that is far more optimal than the way that intercooler sits, not to mention the openning in the front GT bumper along with the trailing facia and paneling that helps to trap air into the radiator. The air has a partial direct path to it as it is except for what the bumper cover impedes.

So what you're saying is if the air has to make a 90 deg turn, it is going to slow down more than if it had to make two or more 90 deg turns??? That doesn't make sense!

Forget about the Fiero for a minute and consider what I was telling you about the air flow path in the Trans Ams and Corvettes where there is no direct path for the air to flow straight into the radiator. That air dam is CRITICAL for kicking the air up into the radiator. And that is exactly what it does, and that's all that is really needed. Once the air has been directed up into the area between the radiator and bumper, it is going to become trapped there (momentarily) and form a high pressure area. There is going to be nowhere else for it to go except thru the radiator.

In the IC setup I built for AkursedX, I've simply placed the IC right into the path of that air right after it gets kicked up by the air dam. A high pressure area is going to form ahead of that air dam (below the IC) in the back of his car and that air is only going to be able to go up thru the intercooler or out the sides of the car to get out. But high pressure exists in front of the rear tires and out from the sides of the car too, so the path of least resistance is going to be thru the intercooler. It really doesn't make any difference what angle a radiator or heat exchanger is sitting at AS LONG AS enough air can be DIRECTED to flow thru it.

If you don't believe what I'm saying then see if you can find a wind speed gauge that has a remote sensor and fasten that to the underside of your Fiero about where the seats sit and tell us what kind of readings you get while driving down the road at 60mph. I bet you are going to find there is a lot of air flowing under the car at highway speed. If you can find a temperature sensor with a remote probe you can mount it under there at the same time and tell us just how much hot air (that's been heated by the radiator) is flowing under the car too. I bet it isn't going to be as hot as you think.

-ryan

quote Originally posted by Darth Fiero: So what you're saying is if the air has to make a 90 deg turn, it is going to slow down more than if it had to make two or more 90 deg turns??? That doesn't make sense! Forget about the Fiero for a minute and consider what I was telling you about the air flow path in the Trans Ams and Corvettes where there is no direct path for the air to flow straight into the radiator. That air dam is CRITICAL for kicking the air up into the radiator. And that is exactly what it does, and that's all that is really needed. Once the air has been directed up into the area between the radiator and bumper, it is going to become trapped there (momentarily) and form a high pressure area. There is going to be nowhere else for it to go except thru the radiator. In the IC setup I built for AkursedX, I've simply placed the IC right into the path of that air right after it gets kicked up by the air dam. A high pressure area is going to form ahead of that air dam (below the IC) in the back of his car and that air is only going to be able to go up thru the intercooler or out the sides of the car to get out. But high pressure exists in front of the rear tires and out from the sides of the car too, so the path of least resistance is going to be thru the intercooler. It really doesn't make any difference what angle a radiator or heat exchanger is sitting at AS LONG AS enough air can be DIRECTED to flow thru it. If you don't believe what I'm saying then see if you can find a wind speed gauge that has a remote sensor and fasten that to the underside of your Fiero about where the seats sit and tell us what kind of readings you get while driving down the road at 60mph. I bet you are going to find there is a lot of air flowing under the car at highway speed. If you can find a temperature sensor with a remote probe you can mount it under there at the same time and tell us just how much hot air (that's been heated by the radiator) is flowing under the car too. I bet it isn't going to be as hot as you think. -ryan

Just get the datalog man. Real world numbers are what matter most, we can speculate to no end. A datalog would make the facts very clear as to what is really happening here as it relates to a Fiero.

[This message has been edited by Joseph Upson (edited 06-01-2011).]

I was planning on installing an identical IC setup I built for AkursedX on my car to replace the smaller/modified GN intercooler that's on there now. I had already planned on adding pressure and temp sensor bungs to the inlet and outlet of the IC before I install it so I could get some real-world data. But circumstances have intervened and now I need to find (and buy) the wife another vehicle for daily transportation. So the IC upgrade will have to wait, therefore the test data will have to wait. In the meantime, you guys that have different intercooler ideas can get the test data logged and post it here or in its own thread.

Ebay water to air intercooler mounted anywhere on the car, powered by a front mount heat exchanger on the very front of the car.

800cfm worth of air later, I get a 6-10C over ambient temperature going into the motor at any given time.

I've never seen more than 14*F rise in IAT after a full run at 16psi. Even back to back runs it doesn't raise any more. It drops pretty fast after I let off the throttle. I haven't watched it at 20psi, next time I get a good 140mph run in I'll check it.

I've never had a problem with heat soak, unless I'm sitting in traffic air temps will go up 20* over ambient. Once I get moving it drops down pretty fast. I think its because my heat exchanger radiator is wedged right against my engine radiator. I've never been on a road course for an extended period of time, so maybe that is where you would see it?

------------------
Turbo 3800 E85 5spd spec5
11.53@126.7

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: Ebay water to air intercooler mounted anywhere on the car, powered by a front mount heat exchanger on the very front of the car. 800cfm worth of air later, I get a 6-10C over ambient temperature going into the motor at any given time.

What sensors are you using and where are they mounted?