Has anyone of the true Gearheads investigated this application for the Fiero? It seems to be pretty popular for the 2.8L 60* V6 S-10. I just thoughtr it would be interesting to look at
One thing to check out with any supercharger on a pushrod 60o V6 in a Fiero is whether or not you then have to forego the air conditioning in your V6 Fiero (which is the case with at least one supercharger set-up that came to my attention for that engine). IF that also is the case here, you presumably would want to know about that in advance of tackling a supercharger project like that, especially given that you reside in the Las Vegas area.
The problem is there is almost no info about this out there. It's like the thing was made for about 20 minutes and then erased from history. the S10 forums all use the same 3 photos and anyone with details point at the one abandonded webpage that has zero details.
it looks like I need to chop up an intake. and possibly get the injector holes filled in and re machined vertical to clear the M62 I basically need to have zero length runners with the M62 sitting flat on the lower intake with two fuel rails that go along the sides of the supercharger.
Correction: still sold, they still make the 2.8/3.4 setup as a kit for Carb or TBI.
[This message has been edited by timgray (edited 05-25-2011).]
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06:30 AM
TiredGXP Member
Posts: 712 From: A cold, miserable place Registered: Jan 2008
Not really an S-10 guy, but gotta say that the 'father' is quite a good machinist. Some of the parts he made for that swap are beautiful. Having access to someone like that tends to make swaps go very well....
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08:41 AM
BAM-BAM Member
Posts: 2258 From: Las Vegas, Nv. Registered: Feb 2000
I E-Mailed Fageol regarding the 2.8 and 3.4L Fiero application and this is the response that I got
Thanks, Don Don thank you for your inquiry, the kit can be made to fit the fiero, call me @619-447-1092 or e-mail me your phone number and I'll be happy to discuss it with you.
I E-Mailed Fageol regarding the 2.8 and 3.4L Fiero application and this is the response that I got
Thanks, Don Don thank you for your inquiry, the kit can be made to fit the fiero, call me @619-447-1092 or e-mail me your phone number and I'll be happy to discuss it with you.
Mark Fageol
Really? Everything online points to they dont exist anymore. I need to make a phone call tomorrow and discuss delivery time and prices with them for just the intake casting.
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06:14 PM
BAM-BAM Member
Posts: 2258 From: Las Vegas, Nv. Registered: Feb 2000
T-Gray, I just got off the phone with Mark Fageol. He said that the blower and manifold are still around and that the key is in the intak side (due to restriction with the water trap) and the pulley arrangement (special bracketing). They even have the chip for the application. Also for those who run carbed intakes it's a lot simpler. Here are a couple of PDF documents that the smarter guys can look at. This set up will get you a 35% RWHP increase for around $1200.00 to $1800.00 dollars. Now I know that here on the forum it is not unusual to pay close to a G for headers. By the way, that increase is with a bone stock motor
with proper machining... or some research, could this be used with our batch fire FI V6s? I mean, I like roots and I like the sound it makes, but I would hate to have to swap to Carb or TBI. Maybe vertical injector holes... BUT that would be not efficient.
Also from that S10 build, on our Fieros we can run a serp pulley and a longer belt to just bypass the need for special bracketry. Running an ilder pulley might make the clamp on the supercharger better.
Maybe even... random idea, Hilborn style injectors, kind of like a TBI since its wet manifold, but runs multiple injectors post throttle blades pre supercharger on a bracket. the 6 injectors could be relocated there, with a special fuel rail, in the intake stream (or on either side of a TB mounted on top of the charger)
These are just random ideas as I think of them :P.
I would love to see one of these on a Fiero, and someone to be really creative in its application rather than just a simple kit install.
with proper machining... or some research, could this be used with our batch fire FI V6s? I mean, I like roots and I like the sound it makes, but I would hate to have to swap to Carb or TBI. Maybe vertical injector holes... BUT that would be not efficient.
Also from that S10 build, on our Fieros we can run a serp pulley and a longer belt to just bypass the need for special bracketry. Running an ilder pulley might make the clamp on the supercharger better.
Maybe even... random idea, Hilborn style injectors, kind of like a TBI since its wet manifold, but runs multiple injectors post throttle blades pre supercharger on a bracket. the 6 injectors could be relocated there, with a special fuel rail, in the intake stream (or on either side of a TB mounted on top of the charger)
Actually I was thinking of using the M62 or a M90 on it. Both of those have the air intake in the proper orientation instead of the top and are a lot narrower to give some room to the injectors. a simple flat adapter plate would need to be machined and a couple of custom gaskets hammered out. If he is willing to sell just an intake at a reasonable price, which I am sure is possible, as the guy is selling the whole setup for a super reasonable price, $2500.00 is chump change for a roots type blower that will bolt on.
[This message has been edited by timgray (edited 05-25-2011).]
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06:23 AM
Will Member
Posts: 14274 From: Where you least expect me Registered: Jun 2000
T-Gray, I just got off the phone with Mark Fageol. He said that the blower and manifold are still around and that the key is in the intak side (due to restriction with the water trap) and the pulley arrangement (special bracketing). They even have the chip for the application. Also for those who run carbed intakes it's a lot simpler. Here are a couple of PDF documents that the smarter guys can look at. This set up will get you a 35% RWHP increase for around $1200.00 to $1800.00 dollars. Now I know that here on the forum it is not unusual to pay close to a G for headers. By the way, that increase is with a bone stock motor
Will, I'm not sure about the aluminum application. The best bet is to give him a call. His number is 619 447-1092 (Mark Fageol) He a super nice guy and even offered to work with me to be a provider to the Fiero community. That is way over my head, but I'm sure someone here is up to the challange. Mark told me that he could get me the S-10 kit for around $1200.00. That sounded more than reasonable. I may have heard him wrong, but I feel certain that is what he said.
------------------ Peace!!
B2 86GT 3.4LProject
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12:01 PM
Raydar Member
Posts: 41113 From: Carrollton GA. Out in the... country. Registered: Oct 1999
with proper machining... or some research, could this be used with our batch fire FI V6s? I mean, I like roots and I like the sound it makes, but I would hate to have to swap to Carb or TBI. Maybe vertical injector holes... BUT that would be not efficient.
Here's a thought.
7-8 lbs is not a great deal of pressure, in the grand scheme of things. Why not build a "wall" all the way around the perimeter of the intake, and have the blower (any blower) mounted on top of that wall. The injectors and possibly the fuel rail(s) could be inside the pressurized area. The 4.3 Vortec already uses a similar arrangement, with an injector "spider" inside a plenum that is under constant manifold vacuum (instead of boost.)
[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 05-25-2011).]
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02:26 PM
May 27th, 2011
Will Member
Posts: 14274 From: Where you least expect me Registered: Jun 2000
The biggest issue is clearance. If you are using a supercharger, the carb application has some distinct advantages, but it is tall. You need to understand the carb and how to manipulate the fuel circuits and that is ok and easy to learn. But, you'll need a pretty tall scoop and you'll need to play with the belts.
I'm a big fan of supercharging, but, I don't run one. If I was, say, 20 years old though...........
Arn
[This message has been edited by Arns85GT (edited 06-11-2011).]
That is the problem with the Faegol SC.. it's housing is BIG so the fuel injectors will have t o stand up straight and not fire towards the valves, IF you made a custom Lower intake for it. Anything you can buy is for Carbeurator ONLY (or the glorified carbeurator called TB injection) and from my measurements this thing would sit about 2 inches above the rear deck and then you have the carbeurator and air filter on top of that. almost above the roof line.
Now this would look utterly cool if you used a set of side draft carbeurators on a coupler manifold or a regular carb with a nice ram scoop modified to aim over the hood. I dont even think rich Mustang kids that can afford a Roush SC kit would try and race you with that hanging above the decklid..
although no more opening the trunk. it would be pins and 2 people lifting it straight up.
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05:29 PM
Jun 12th, 2011
Oreif Member
Posts: 16460 From: Schaumburg, IL Registered: Jan 2000
That is the problem with the Faegol SC.. it's housing is BIG so the fuel injectors will have t o stand up straight and not fire towards the valves, IF you made a custom Lower intake for it. Anything you can buy is for Carbeurator ONLY (or the glorified carbeurator called TB injection) and from my measurements this thing would sit about 2 inches above the rear deck and then you have the carbeurator and air filter on top of that. almost above the roof line.
Now this would look utterly cool if you used a set of side draft carbeurators on a coupler manifold or a regular carb with a nice ram scoop modified to aim over the hood. I dont even think rich Mustang kids that can afford a Roush SC kit would try and race you with that hanging above the decklid..
although no more opening the trunk. it would be pins and 2 people lifting it straight up.
Your measurements are incorrect. With the intake and blower on the engine, The supercharger sits about the same height as the Edelbrock carbed intake with the 4-bbl riser. Intake + blower is 6" overall height from the valley pan surface. Edelbrock intake with 4-bbl riser is 5.9" tall. Add a Holley 390cfm 4-bbl carb on and you are about 1.75" under a 1985-1988 decklid. A scoop on the back decklid would be required for proper aircleaner clearence.
There is no room to install the injectors. You need to be carb'd or TBI like the Holley Commander set-up. The only way to use MPFI or SFI would be to make your own lower intake.
There use to be a guy in our local club about 4-5 years ago who had one on a 1988 red Formula. Somewhere I have a list of the exact parts he used and a couple of pics of measurements and mountings. I was going to add one to the 3.4L carb'd engine I built but then decided just to do the V-8. I'll see if I can locate the CD he gave me back then. ------------------ Happiness isn't around the corner... Happiness IS the corner. ZZ4 Powered !!
[This message has been edited by Oreif (edited 06-12-2011).]
Yup I mentioned a custom intake for MPFI, and even then it would be a bad design because of how the injectors would have to be mounted.
I thought typical carburetors were about 6 inches tall, plus a 1" spacer, and I swore the Faegol was 8" tall on it's own. It was all back of the hand chicken scratch anyways. but would still be highly aggressive looking under the decklid.
I need to re-check measurements, I though I only had 10 inches from the lower intake surface to decklid underside.
[This message has been edited by timgray (edited 06-12-2011).]
The Edelbrock lower intake would work perfectly. You can buy it separate from the top.
Like Oreif says, you need clearance for the air cleaner, but the difference between the Edelbrock upper intake and the Supercharger height is not much at all.
You can also pick up an older S10 intake and use it.
I don't believe that the cost vs horsepower ratio justifies the investment. Then add the costs for a deck scoop a carb or new TBI system. Even if the supercharger was worth the price, you can't just apply forced induction to an old engine. You'll need a freshly rebuilt engine to enjoy reliability and preferably one with forged pistons to take the boost. The used $700 setup listed on the link above may offer possibilites but again boosting an old tired engine is a no no. These days swaps are pretty easy ( especially the stick swaps) and if you are not up to it; a number of Fiero Forum members can supply you a wiring harness and plug and play mounts.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, 3.4" Pulley, N* TB, LS1 MAF, Flotech Exhaust Autolite 104's Custom CAI 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
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09:39 PM
Mike Allen Member
Posts: 122 From: San Antonio, Tx Registered: Jun 2011
