I am thinking that it would be a good idea to install a kill switch in my ride because it seems to turn a lot of heads and I don't need anyone taking it for a joy ride. I have seen a couple threads about it in the past but nothing too specific. What would be a good place to wire a kill switch in at? Also I am trying to think of a good location to mount the switch so that its not easy to find but I know where its at. I know that I do not want to kill the power from the batter because that would be a pain to have to reset the radio anytime I wanted to use the switch. I have heard fuel pump, and ignition are areas that others have used, but I need some help with specifically where the wires are located and what wire to tap into. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
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11:52 PM
PFF
System Bot
May 24th, 2011
Tony Kania Member
Posts: 20794 From: The Inland Northwest Registered: Dec 2008
I had used a keyed battery switch. I need to pop my trunk, but it is not like anyone would know that.
I made a new starter cable, and the key just is spliced in. I do not kill my radio, or any other power, just the starter. I do have a switch inside wired in also, but I won't tell anyone how I did that.
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12:14 AM
TONY_C Member
Posts: 2747 From: North Bellmore, NY 11710 Registered: May 2001
You can wire it to prevent the starter from cranking or you can disable the ignition or the fuel pump but the car will still crank. to keep it from cranking, just wire a switch in series with the neutral safety switch or the clutch safety switch, which ever is applicable. that's the low current circuit, so you don't need a relay and heaving wiring or a HD switch. The nice thing about using this for a kill is that once you start your car, no current is flowing through the switch whereas if you kill the fuel pump or ignition, normal operation will cause current to flow through the switch when the engine is running. Downside of the starter kill is that a thief will realize quickly that there is a kill wired in when nothing happens when he tries to start it. You need to get creative with hiding the switch because he will look for it quickly. If you wire the ignition or Fuel pump, he might not realize right away that there is a kill switch.
Edit to add, if you use the starter kill, use a momentary switch so once you start the car and let go of the switch it's always in the "kill" position
[This message has been edited by TONY_C (edited 05-24-2011).]
Just cut power to ECM. Cut Anywhere from fuse box to ECM.
But note... Cut main power from fuse box, Not backup power from battery w/ fuse link.
ECM doesn't need amps like fuel pump or Ignition. Kill switch rated at 10 amp AC or more. (Most switches rated only AC amps.)
(4 cyl has injector share ECM fuse... Need a bit more amps. Kill switch can use same circuit but wire it more carefully. Kill switch rated at 15 AC amps or more.)
------------------ Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should. (Jurassic Park)
Some good suggestions above. I'd just like to re-emphasize what theogre said about not cutting into the ECM battery power wire. I thought I would be smart and did just that (many years ago) only to find that the ECM would lose it's calibration memory and codes each time. The car would hesistate and act strangely until the ECM had a chance to re-learn the optimal operating parameters (this was on a TPI V8, but it still applies).
Yes ECM doesn't like cutting backup power... Plus Cutting BU power and not main power then try to run engine can/will screw up (and fry) ECM.
Pulling ECM fuse is a cheap option But do that rarely... Pull fuse as a kill switch will wear out fuse plug in box. Plug is not made constant use.
------------------ Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should. (Jurassic Park)
If you are not a smoker one spot to place the kill switch is mounting it in the bottom of the driver side ash tray. I did this on my son's Fiero years ago. A couple of crumpled up tissues on top of the switch disguised it nicely.
I hate to shoot an idea down, but, I've tried a Kill Switch and it did not work out.
Sure, they couldn't take the car, and nobody figured out the cigarette lighter trick, but, every time they tried they did damage.
The minimum you get is a broken steering column. Sometimes the thieves get annoyed with the Kill Switch and trash something on the car. In my case, they stole the T roofs in a rain storm. Yeah, bad news.
The best thing to do is to install a good alarm system, possibly a bit more money initally, but it saves on insurance claims.
You don't want a motion sensor, but you do want an entry sensor on all doors and hoods. You want a 5-10 second chirp feature to warn them off. You want a glass breakage sensor, and above all, you want the ignition killer. In my case, I have the Viper system. If the battery is disconnected for any reason, when it is re-connected it arms itself automatically.
This can be pretty inconvenient if your alarm fob has a dead battery, but there is a bypass system that can be done.
If you have a $500 deductible on your insurance, it is roughly the same cost, but, way less inconvenient.
A word to the wise.
Arn
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12:09 PM
zmcdonal Member
Posts: 1682 From: NW, Indiana Registered: Oct 2005
Just cut power to ECM. Cut Anywhere from fuse box to ECM.
But note... Cut main power from fuse box, Not backup power from battery w/ fuse link.
Yes it is a V6. Could anyone tell tell me what wire that would be exactly, my car has the 7730 computer swap if that makes any difference. I was considering mounting my switch in the removable plate that is behind the glovebox at the bottom. Thoughts or opinions on that? I was thinking that it's pretty hidden and not in the typical dash/fusebox location.
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10:11 PM
RotrexFiero Member
Posts: 3692 From: Pittsburgh, PA Registered: Jul 2002
The best thing to do is to install a good alarm system, possibly a bit more money initally, but it saves on insurance claims.
You don't want a motion sensor, but you do want an entry sensor on all doors and hoods. You want a 5-10 second chirp feature to warn them off. You want a glass breakage sensor, and above all, you want the ignition killer. In my case, I have the Viper system. If the battery is disconnected for any reason, when it is re-connected it arms itself automatically.
This can be pretty inconvenient if your alarm fob has a dead battery, but there is a bypass system that can be done.
If you have a $500 deductible on your insurance, it is roughly the same cost, but, way less inconvenient.
A word to the wise.
Arn
I understand where you are coming from and I appreciate the advice, the only thing is that an alarm like that is a little out of my budget for now. Money is really tight for me at the moment, and there would be no sense in buying some cheapo crap alarm off of e-bay. Maybe sometime in the future I will be able to invest in a quality alarm system but for now I was looking for a cheap anti-theft device to give me some piece of mind, and hopefully it will never be tested if you know what I mean.
If you really need to use the switch for economic reasons, make up a sign to go in the window which says "vehicle disabled when unattended". It might save you some damage.
Autopage RF-225 is used in a TON of cars as OEM alarm. It's better quality than any of the botique brands with useless features like the "viper" junk.
$39.00 shipped is a typical price.
Very interesting, I will have to look into that. I was not aware of that company, or the fact that they are used as an OEM alarm system on many cars. I did not see that it was equipt with any kind of ignition kill, would it be a good idea to use something like the Autopage RF-225 along with my original kill switch idea?
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08:27 PM
steve308 Member
Posts: 4029 From: Stafford VA Registered: Jan 2008
Removable steering wheel kit from summit might be an option! Then a cut out switch as a back up and to prevent the headlight motors from draining the battery as a bonus.
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09:34 PM
May 26th, 2011
nitroheadz28 Member
Posts: 4774 From: Brooklyn, NY Registered: Mar 2010
I had an autopage alarm installed on my dad's cobalt, its alright I guess. Not sure what the price is but its fairly basic, arm/disarm, silent arm/disarm, trunk popper, and panic button. Pretty much all you need for an alarm. Only complaints are that in my case, I need to make sure to press the lock button cause sometimes it won't lock on its own. Another complaint is that the alarm is still active if the doors are open, so you need to have the key in the run position for it to stay off and not lock on its own when it decides to do that.
Very interesting, I will have to look into that. I was not aware of that company, or the fact that they are used as an OEM alarm system on many cars. I did not see that it was equipt with any kind of ignition kill, would it be a good idea to use something like the Autopage RF-225 along with my original kill switch idea?
they have a relay that does ignition kill if the alarm is set off, when the alarm is set ignition is dead if you install the ignition kill relay.
Well I went ahead and purchased an autopage rf-225 yesterday, waiting for it to arrive. Does anyone have experience installing one of these if I have any questions??
Everything you will ever want to know about car alarm install as well as stereo or anything else car electrical accessory related.
Car alarms are not hard to install, take your time, expect to spend an entire day from 8am to 6pm to install it yourself if you have never done one before. read the install instructions 5 times... Before you start. also get your hands on the service manual PDF file, they are online, I cant link to one as I cant remember where I got my last one... http://www.the12volt.com/in...larmdetail/1857.html this also helps...
Also DO NOT LOSE the instructions. you will not get another copy online. Autopage will not put pdf copies of the install instructions online to deter smarter thieves that know what google is.
[This message has been edited by timgray (edited 06-08-2011).]
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05:17 PM
Jun 14th, 2011
zmcdonal Member
Posts: 1682 From: NW, Indiana Registered: Oct 2005
they have a relay that does ignition kill if the alarm is set off, when the alarm is set ignition is dead if you install the ignition kill relay.
My Autopage RF 225 arrived today. Wow that control box is small, I was expecting something a little bit bigger. It does not come with the starter disable relay. Does anyone know where I can get the relay that I need for the starter kill, and the most affordable place to buy a siren from? Thanks.
[This message has been edited by zmcdonal (edited 06-14-2011).]
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12:09 AM
Boogaloo Member
Posts: 422 From: South Miami,Fl Registered: Sep 2009
If the car is a manual transmission starter kill makes no sense since you can still push the car and start it after breaking the column, an easier way is to get a lenght of wire wrapped in black tape and some small split loom then just cut the + side of the wire from the coil then splice the wire in series and run it to an hidden location to a SPST toggle switch will nener let you down a $5 investment well spent. Edited for bad spelling.
[This message has been edited by Boogaloo (edited 06-14-2011).]
The only kill switch that I would use is for the fuel pump relay. Let the car crank over, but not start. As other have said, it is obvious to a car thief that a kill switch is installed. Next they go through and destroy everything they can to get the car to start. With the fuel pump out, they can crank the car all they want and it will sputter.
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01:54 PM
phonedawgz Member
Posts: 17091 From: Green Bay, WI USA Registered: Dec 2009
No wiring, no fuss - sure some will say that it does not work as they can cut through the steering wheel to remove it, but in reality what thief walks around with a hacksaw? If anything they carry a screwdriver as it is easy to carry and hide. If they are looking to just steal the car and they see The Club they will just move on to the next easy target.
However, if they are looking to steal something from inside the car (or do damage), nothing will prevent this.
With a kill switch, they will still break into the car and try to start it and damage items in the process, with the club, it is a visable deterant and they will just likely leave the car alone (unless you have something that makes them want to break in to see what there is to steal).
As for the glass sensor, I also wouldn't waste money on this - most thieves know how to get into a car without breaking the glass...it's only the kids that want to damage the car that will do this.
The only reason I have a kill switch is to keep someone from taking my car and hurting someone else. Fuel and fire, take those away and the car is not going to move.
The fuel pump kill switch works. IT DOES NOT PREVENT DAMAGE TO YOUR CAR. The thieves still break in, break your steering column and break your ignition lock. The car alarm system with built in kill switch works best. It has a flashing LED to let all but the bozo's know that it is armed. It has a chirp to once again let them know, then, the siren which is just plain annoying to any thief. With the alarm siren going off, it takes a thief too long on site to be safe for them, so, the alarm is also the best deterrent. Any good thief doesn't want to be bothered with one. Especially on a low value car like a Fiero.
The fuel pump kill switch works. IT DOES NOT PREVENT DAMAGE TO YOUR CAR. The thieves still break in, break your steering column and break your ignition lock. The car alarm system with built in kill switch works best. It has a flashing LED to let all but the bozo's know that it is armed. It has a chirp to once again let them know, then, the siren which is just plain annoying to any thief. With the alarm siren going off, it takes a thief too long on site to be safe for them, so, the alarm is also the best deterrent. Any good thief doesn't want to be bothered with one. Especially on a low value car like a Fiero.
Arn
Installing the alarm siren INSIDE the cabin under the dash IS painful to the thief. nothing like 140DB of siren in an enclosed space. It's where I put all alarm horns.
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04:57 PM
Jun 17th, 2011
zmcdonal Member
Posts: 1682 From: NW, Indiana Registered: Oct 2005
My Autopage RF 225 arrived today. Does anyone know where I can get the relay that I need for the starter kill, and the most affordable place to buy a siren from? I have seen some siren's on ebay but not exactly sure what to be looking for. Thanks.
Also I have an extra set of car horns from my parts car, they are FIAM MA80 horns so they are louder then stock, I was thinking about installing these in the passenger compartment if I didn't buy a siren, or mount the siren under the hood and the horns in the car, thoughts, opinions?
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12:31 AM
Jun 27th, 2011
phonedawgz Member
Posts: 17091 From: Green Bay, WI USA Registered: Dec 2009
I agree that an alarm is a good idea but for a kill switch, I have often thought about using one of the old floor dimmer switches hidden under the carpet and a little higher up out of the way. I believe that this could be used for either fire or fuel and would be cheap.
Steve
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01:20 PM
PFF
System Bot
phonedawgz Member
Posts: 17091 From: Green Bay, WI USA Registered: Dec 2009
The problem I saw with a on/off type switch is to remember to turn it off when leaving the car. Another PFF member used an auto-resetting kill switch but located the pushbutton under the carpet where the could tap it on with his toe. A doorbell type switch mounted on a piece of plastic connected to the auto resetting controls could work for that application.
Turning off the key would turn off the fuel pump.
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01:42 PM
Oct 23rd, 2011
zmcdonal Member
Posts: 1682 From: NW, Indiana Registered: Oct 2005
Time to revisit an old posting. Well I have the keyless entry and alarm installed, but I did not install the kill relay because I did not really see any good way to hide it and all of the wiring to the alarm system. Unfortunately I put the alarm after I swapped the dash, would have been soo easy to hide everything with the dash removed. I was able to hide the brain for the alarm pretty well I think, but I was thinkin that a kill switch would still be a good idea.
I am wanting to install it near the center counsol armrest, which wire(s) could i tie into in that area for my kill switch?
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04:44 PM
Gall757 Member
Posts: 10938 From: Holland, MI Registered: Jun 2010
Just put a hidden switch in the line coming out of the fuze box that supplies the fuel pump. The car will crank but will not start. In a pinch you can simply just pull the fuel pump fuze.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, ZZP Intercooler, 3.4" Pulley, N* TB, LS1 MAF, Flotech Exhaust Autolite 104's Custom CAI 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
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