I'm new to this engine and I am going to paint some parts and need to estimate the cost. Some of these gaskets are very expensive. For example the SC one is $45+! So, which of these if any are reusable? Tks

- supercharger
- valve covers
- exhaust manifolds
- lower intake
- timing chain cover
- oil pan
- 4t65e pan
- did I missed any?

quote Originally posted by Alex4mula: I'm new to this engine and I am going to paint some parts and need to estimate the cost. Some of these gaskets are very expensive. For example the SC one is $45+! So, which of these if any are reusable? Tks - supercharger <------ if aluminum - valve covers <------ - exhaust manifolds <-------- - lower intake <------- if aluminum - timing chain cover - oil pan <-------coat with RTV - 4t65e pan - did I missed any?

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Turbo 3800 E85 5spd spec5
11.53@126.7

Whatever you take off( oil pan, valve cover, lower intake) it would be in your best interest to replace all the gaskets with new ones.
1. Do it while out of car = easier time than in the engine bay

2. Why get the fun driving going, then have to go back and fix leaks or something.

There are recalls on the valve covers and the lower intake gasket. so I would be sure to get new correct ones.

This is not a cheap swap, as in parts and aftermarket parts. ZZP is not the only place to get gaskets. shop around first.

Thanks. Funny that many others clain the 3800 to be a cheap swap... I checked the prices at RockAuto. This is a 2004 engine with supposely 40k miles. I can afford them but don't just want to wate the money if not needed. So it seems most are. I'm more interested in the SC and valve covers ones. Thanks

[This message has been edited by Alex4mula (edited 06-15-2011).]

The valve cover gaskets are technically a reusable design, but I would get new ones. The recall GM had on these gaskets was to prevent engine fires caused by oil leaking onto the exhaust manifolds. The new gaskets are no different from the old, their just new. The problem was that car owners were not fixing the leaks and cars started to burst into flames in the owners garage after being parked. Cars, garages and houses were starting on fire. GM issued the recall to help prevent this sort of incident. The gaskets were never flawed in design, they were just getting old and leaking, but not being addressed by owners.

As stated earlier, there are plenty of parts stores that either stock these gaskets, or can get them within a day or two. And their pricing is usually competitive. Just shop around your local parts stores.

Here's an example. Oreilly's sells the supercharger gasket for $9.99. They call it the "upper plenum gasket".
http://www.oreillyauto.com/...t&pt=02293&ppt=C0026

Edit: And a couple hundred in gaskets IS still cheap. Some folks have over $5,000 invested in parts alone when it comes to engine swaps. As far as swaps go, I think the 3800 is the cheapest for the power. You could probably do a 3400 swap cheaper, but not much.

[This message has been edited by 1fatcat (edited 06-15-2011).]

quote Originally posted by 1fatcat: ... Here's an example. Oreilly's sells the supercharger gasket for $9.99. They call it the "upper plenum gasket". http://www.oreillyauto.com/...t&pt=02293&ppt=C0026 ..

Wow! I wonder why the extra little items take that to $60.
http://www.oreillyauto.com/...0&pt=02293&ppt=C0026

Still the valve cover ones are $50+ Ouch!

Yeah, I noticed too that the throttle body gasket brings the price way up. Don't know why? Valve cover gaskets seem pricy everywhere. Probably because GM needs to make more money to cover the cost of the recall.

The only one you can reuse would be the transmission one, as long as no one replaced it. It should have metal spacers for each bolt hole. That one is ment to be reused. The rest of them I would replace. One place you can look to get some would be http://www.zzperformance.co.../products.php?id=103 They sell kits depending on what you are rebuilding.

Clean, inspect, and reuse. It's not rocket science. There is no reason to spend money on something that isn't broke. Clean everything with brake cleaner and make sure there is no oil residue.

If you have an aluminum oil pan, there is no gasket, just RTV. If its the steel one, then coat both sides of the plastic gasket with RTV. There was a TSB about this. Make sure you remove the Oil Level sensor before you remove the pan.

If the LIM has plastic gaskets, then get the aluminum ones. If they are already aluminum, clean them and if there is no flaws, then reuses it. Take care on the ends of the LIM to remove the rubber pieces without damaging them. Just put a drop of RTV in the corners when you reinstall.

If the supercharger is a genV then it should have an aluminum gasket and it will cost much more than that Oreillys paper gasket for the gen III above. You can reuses it if it looks good. It will more than likely look the same as a new GM one.

The valve cover gasket can be reused also. Again, clean it really good with brake cleaner. Put a latex glove on and goop some RTV on your fingers. Run the gasket through your hands and apply a very thin coat all around it. Just enough to make it tacky. This will be much better than a new gasket.

Exhaust manifolds are MLS type gasket and can be reused. Nothing will work better.

Timing chain cover will need to be replace. Its just a paper gasket

I've done this a few times and have never had a leak.
I always use Permatex Ultra Black RTV
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Turbo 3800 E85 5spd spec5
11.53@126.7

[This message has been edited by Justinbart (edited 06-15-2011).]

Hey Justin, do you know if the new aluminum gasket for the gen V blower will work on the gen III series II? I ask because EVERY supercharger I've ever removed from a series II has had the gasket sucked in. I feel that the aluminum frame gasket would not do this.

I'm pretty sure that you can't since you can't put a genV blower directly on a L67 LIM.

Are you getting a genuine GM gasket? They have always been stuck done pretty good for me.
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Turbo 3800 E85 5spd spec5
11.53@126.7

[This message has been edited by Justinbart (edited 06-15-2011).]

quote Originally posted by 1fatcat: The valve cover gaskets are technically a reusable design, but I would get new ones. The recall GM had on these gaskets was to prevent engine fires caused by oil leaking onto the exhaust manifolds. The new gaskets are no different from the old, their just new. The problem was that car owners were not fixing the leaks and cars started to burst into flames in the owners garage after being parked. Cars, garages and houses were starting on fire. GM issued the recall to help prevent this sort of incident. The gaskets were never flawed in design, they were just getting old and leaking, but not being addressed by owners.

I do know GM changed the type of material they used to make the valve cover gaskets over the years. Early Series 2 OE designs I've seen were orange in color if I remember correctly. The latest material is dark grey, and feels quite a bit firmer than what I remember the older style orange being (even new). So they've changed something.

I don't know if I would reuse lower intake gaskets, even if they were aluminum. The risk you run is if a leak occurs in one of the coolant passages, it can leak coolant into your engine oil which can destroy engine bearings quickly. Just seems like a big risk to take to save $60 or so.

About the only gasket I would even think of reusing besides the aluminum supercharger base gasket (that is if your engine got it) is the oil pan gasket, and that's because the GM TSB to fix the stamped steel oil pan leaks is to coat the gasket with a bead of RTV. I would feel ok reusing the factory oil pan gasket ONLY if it doesn't tear or rip when you remove it, and only if the plastic frame it is made out of isn't cracked. I would then coat BOTH sealing sides of the cleaned and dried - reused gasket with ULTRA GREY RTV and then install it. It is also a good idea to apply a drop of BLUE LOCTITE to each oil pan bolt (after you've cleaned and dried them) before installation.

Another common source of leaks on these engines is the rear main seal housing gasket. The rear main seal housing is cast aluminum and you must remove the flywheel/flexplate and oil pan to reseal it. The old gasket is usually super brittle and will chip off only in small pieces requiring a lot of time for a complete clean-up. While you have it off you might as well replace the rear main seal. RockAuto sells a seal housing gasket kit (includes new rear main seal) for around $10. When you get the new gasket for the housing, you'll notice it comes pre-coated on one side with anaerobic gasket sealer. I go ahead and put a bead of Permatex High Temperature Anaerobic Flange Sealant on the other side of this gasket as well. DO NOT USE RTV on this gasket.

VERY IMPORTANT: DO NOT use a ROLOC disc (aka: wizzy wheel; die-grinder mounted gasket remover, etc) to clean ANY gasket surface on the engine. Doing so can throw very small metal, gasket, and grit particles into the engine which you may not be able to see. These particles can make it past the oil filter and embed themselves into the bearings - destroying them. GM put out a TSB about this many years ago. Only use a razor blade or other gasket scraper (and chemical gasket stripper, if needed) to remove old gasket material from anything on the engine. Now if you're cleaning an intake manifold or something else that can be completely removed from the engine and cleaned thoroughly afterwards, then you should be able to use anything you want to remove old gasket material as long as it doesn't damage the part you are cleaning.

REMEMBER: Some bolts on these engines (like for the flexplate/flywheel) are torque-to-yield, which means they are one-time-use only bolts and must be replaced after you remove them. Consult the service manual for information on what bolts need to be replaced upon removal as well as proper torque specifications.

-ryan

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OVERKILL IS UNDERRATED

Custom GM OBD1 & OBD2 Tuning | Engine Conversions & more | www.gmtuners.com

Justins answer is great. Very accurate. I have been driving and fixing 3800 supercharged cars since 2000.

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1985 Fiero GT 3.1 with 4 speed
1999 Regal GS L36 VS CAM Intercooled / E85 12.96@ 108 street tires

quote Originally posted by Darth Fiero: .. Another common source of leaks on these engines is the rear main seal housing gasket. The rear main seal housing is cast aluminum and you must remove the flywheel/flexplate and oil pan to reseal it. ..-ryan

Thanks all. I think I changed my mind. I took out the engine today and was looking at it very closely. I was told this engine had about 24K miles and now I beleive it. I can see that all gasket areas and sensors really look low mile and undisturbed. You can see the RMS area below. Is super clean. I want to keep it all that way. The only ones I will touch and will get new are the valve covers and exhaust manifolds. By the way, where the hell is the oil dip stick hole on these S3 engines? I can only see a sensor on the side of the oil pan. Thanks.

The dip stick hole is on the left side of the block, near the bottom of the block.

Justin: Yes, I see the gaskets sucked in on genuin GM gaskets. Not sucked in from the outside, but from an internal port to the large blower opening.