Originally posted by Will: Is that a poison, or just responsible for obesity in sedentary individuals who eat too much? Wait... what?
Subsidized?
It is technically a poison, yes, though the FDA has obviously not classified it as such. HFCS is basically the chemical inverse of sugar. Same elements, but fused together differently. And the human body processes it differently than normal glucose sugars, as a result. It has been shown to create obesity in lab rats with controlled diets, and cases of diabetes in the US have been on the rise for a while now.
Corn is a subsidized crop in the US. Ever since the trade embargo on Cuba, we've consistently been using corn for more and more. It's the top agricultural subsidy in the US. http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...ubsidy#United_States
As someone that deals with Chinese manufacturers, the blame first needs to be placed on the company that wrote the specs for the parts. The Chinese are quite capable of making quality parts but many US companies don't order those. They order cheap parts because they want to maximize their profit. If a company writes a spec that dictates a quality part, the Chinese will make it but it will cost more.
Over time, the company wants to reduce their costs so they pound on the Chinese manufacturer to reduce their costs. The Chinese tell you that you can't have that specific part for less. If you want it cheaper, change the spec. Guess what happens.
Stuff is cheap at Walmart because that is what Walmart asks for. True, much of it IS cheap Chinese crap, but that is usually what was specified.
[This message has been edited by TK (edited 06-29-2011).]
Please, if you're going to complain about something coming from China being of poor quality, do not generalize as if everything coming from China is crap. State exactly what manufacturers are causing you problems. Call the Federal Trade Commision and complain to them about the specific manufacturer, and not a general rant about China.
For what it's worth Timken is about to expand their manufacturing to China as well, adding to the numerous countries where they produce parts. I'm sure they will continue to enforce a higher quality in their production, regardless of where they are manufactured.
If you really think everything from China is complete crap, then just go give away everything you own to someone else, and walk on up to the Ozarks, find a cave, crawl inside, and never leave. It's the only way you're going to live in these United States in the 21st Century, and not have anything made outside the country. The world economy is a global space, and with billions of people to build a work force out of, you can bet your entitled American ass that only more and more companies are going to expand manufacturing of goods to China and India eventually as well.
If you want to rant about China, go over to the Off Topic forum and have a ball with ulahnstan. If you want to talk about specific problems with parts from specific manufacturers, then Tech is a good place for it. But Tech isn't the place for socio-political rants. Just like the 70s TV commercials with the Native American telling you not to litter the streets, please stop littering the forums, and put your garbage in the right place.
actually everything that comes from china is actually crap. they use crap steel and everything in china that is made form steel is made from crap china steel so you have to generalize. and as for your 70's crying indian he wasnt even an indian he was russian (if i remember correctly) but he definatly wasnt indian. so sufficive to say everything from china is really crap and will break sooner than something made in america (from steel at least).
edited to add: i have to agree tho while informing others of dookie parts is good calling the FTC is the best bet. its about time the gov works for our money.
[This message has been edited by Niterrorz (edited 06-29-2011).]
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11:00 PM
Pappy Member
Posts: 842 From: Land of Confusion Registered: Apr 2010
After reading this I got to talking to the wife about it. We were lucky with our critters during "The poison dog food from China" thing but now I have started to think about...
What if the poisoned lets say our toilet paper, Rubbing alcohol or any product we use daily like shampoo, soap or toothpaste dispenser. I wonder if the dog thingy was a marker to see how far and deep they could get an attack inside our borders...
Things that make ya go humm
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11:44 PM
Jun 30th, 2011
Xyster Member
Posts: 1444 From: Great Falls MT Registered: Apr 2011
Originally posted by Xyster: Glucose is poison? Better get rid of that granulated sugar in the cabinet. Fructose is poison? Better burn down apple orchards.
WTF? Isn't this supposed to be about faulty components that have the potential to cause serious injuries when the fail?
HFCS is not glucose. Nor is it fructose.
And I thought it was about bitching about stuff from China. I think some hub bearing was mentioned in the middle of the moaning, but mostly the noun in the OP was "China" as best I can tell. No mention of any brands, or manufacturers.
This really should have been in TOT in the first place, since it doesn't talk about any technical specifics. Mostly just people jumping on the hate-China political bandwagon.
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10:15 AM
Xyster Member
Posts: 1444 From: Great Falls MT Registered: Apr 2011
And I thought it was about bitching about stuff from China. I think some hub bearing was mentioned in the middle of the moaning, but mostly the noun in the OP was "China" as best I can tell. No mention of any brands, or manufacturers.
This really should have been in TOT in the first place, since it doesn't talk about any technical specifics. Mostly just people jumping on the hate-China political bandwagon.
Just changed a read bearing hub today for a guy. He was one who decided to save money and install a Chinese made bearing hub on the rear left of his 3.4L Fiero. The owner told me that it never ran as quiet as the stock unit bit it worked, well for six months and 5 k miles! Then the grinding noise started getting bad. We pulled out that hub and it was nasty. The steel used on those Chinese hubs is very soft. I've handled new ones and the side to side play is like 1/16" right out of the box. Just for reference I hit an old used Fiero hub that was here in the garage with a hammer and no dent was apparent. Hit the hub plate on the Chinese and a flat mark appeared. A word to the wise; use only Timken, BCA or Bower USA made bearing hubs. The Chinese hubs are of LOW bottom of the barrel quality and won't last. I've read stories online that they even break apart on occasion. Whats your life worth?
Nope. The hub bearing was in the first post.
Now, let's get back on topic.
[This message has been edited by Xyster (edited 06-30-2011).]
And I never said a hub bearing wasn't mentioned. But what wasn't mentioned, was who made it, where it was purchased, etc… In fact, it was only assumed that it was Chinese, afaict. And people jump on the anti-China bandwagon. While I am simply asking for specific information, and recommending that specific information be also given to the FTC, so that the bad parts can be avoided, and dealt with properly.
Originally posted by dobey: While I am simply asking for specific information, and recommending that specific information be also given to the FTC, so that the bad parts can be avoided, and dealt with properly.
The way to avoid bad parts is in the title of this thread (it's what the thread is about). Do not use Chinese made rear bearing hubs. ~ Paul aka "Tha Driver"
The way to avoid bad parts is in the title of this thread (it's what the thread is about). Do not use Chinese made rear bearing hubs.
Then answer the questions I posed about what specific parts are in question. Do not blanket the answer with "**** China" because it's not the answer. I have gotten bad parts from everywhere. If that's your answer to everything, then the only suitable answer for you is to get rid of everything you own, and never buy anything else. But we both know that's not going to happen.
So again WHAT ARE THE SPECIFIC BRANDS, PART NUMBERS, and MANUFACTURERS?
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11:34 AM
Will Member
Posts: 14252 From: Where you least expect me Registered: Jun 2000
Another good company gone bad = Black & Decker. Use to be proud to have their stuff in my garage/tool box, however now EVERYTHING they make is coming from China, and most of it is plastic and sucks @ass.
At least as far as aftermarket replacement bearings are concerned.
Well, that would imply you couldn't get anything that wasn't, making this thread pointless. Was it your bearing that Dennis replaced? Do you have pics of it, part #s, etc…? If Dennis could provide the relevant information about the part in question, it would be useful. That information is:
Brand Part # Serial # (if applicable) Manufacturer Actual Origin Place of Purchase
This is the useful information needed to work against bad parts. And this is the information the FTC would need, from multiple people experiencing the same problems, to take any real action.
And Dennis, did you replace one, or both? Were both of the already installed ones the same? Was the other still original? Can you actually provide the relevant information I listed here that would be required by FTC, lawyers, etc… to be able to take any action?
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12:53 PM
Will Member
Posts: 14252 From: Where you least expect me Registered: Jun 2000
As someone that deals with Chinese manufacturers, the blame first needs to be placed on the company that wrote the specs for the parts. The Chinese are quite capable of making quality parts but many US companies don't order those. They order cheap parts because they want to maximize their profit. If a company writes a spec that dictates a quality part, the Chinese will make it but it will cost more.
Over time, the company wants to reduce their costs so they pound on the Chinese manufacturer to reduce their costs. The Chinese tell you that you can't have that specific part for less. If you want it cheaper, change the spec. Guess what happens.
Stuff is cheap at Walmart because that is what Walmart asks for. True, much of it IS cheap Chinese crap, but that is usually what was specified.
China is also one of the most pervasively corrupt countries in the world. Are the companies that behave as you describe the norm or the exception?
There absolutely are dishonest manufacturers in China. They make fake Walbro and Bosch fuel pumps. The fake Walbros even say "Made in USA" on them.
There's a Chinese company producing knock off versions of BMW's GT1 diagnostic scanner. The knock offs say "Made in Germany" on them.
I would not doubt for a second that there are Chinese manufacturers that will accept a specification as you described and produce junk that doesn't even come close. Which companies are which? I don't know. Good luck figuring it out.
quote
Originally posted by dobey:
Well, that would imply you couldn't get anything that wasn't, making this thread pointless. Was it your bearing that Dennis replaced? Do you have pics of it, part #s, etc…? If Dennis could provide the relevant information about the part in question, it would be useful. That information is:
Brand Part # Serial # (if applicable) Manufacturer Actual Origin Place of Purchase
This is the useful information needed to work against bad parts. And this is the information the FTC would need, from multiple people experiencing the same problems, to take any real action.
Do you think the distributor will actually tell you who manufactured the hub?
Am I the only one here who's read Sun Tzu?
The Chinese are waging economic war on us. The Chinese government purposely pegs their currency to the dollar so that Chinese imports are always cheap in the US. If you don't believe me, read "The Art of War". It's the owner's manual for the Chinese mind.
Originally posted by Will: Do you think the distributor will actually tell you who manufactured the hub?
Am I the only one here who's read Sun Tzu?
The Chinese are waging economic war on us. The Chinese government purposely pegs their currency to the dollar so that Chinese imports are always cheap in the US. If you don't believe me, read "The Art of War". It's the owner's manual for the Chinese mind.
I'm sorry. I thought this was the "Technical Discussion & Questions" forum, and not the "Xenophobes Against China" one. Clearly I'm mistaking this site as being about Fieros, despite its title. And I don't expect the distributor to necessarily know who manufactured it, no. The people at AutoZone don't instill such confidence. But both distributor and manufacturer are important pieces of information, whether you can get one piece from the other, or not. But the fact is, that it's traceable.
China doesn't need to "wage economic war" on us. We're plenty good at screwing up our economy without anyone's help. China didn't destroy our housing market or our banks. We did. China isn't destroying our economy. We are. Stop blaming everyone else and take responsibility for your own actions.
And yes, I've read The Art of War, The Prince, Tao Teh Ching, and plenty of other books. Just because you're a paranoid xenophobe, doesn't mean it's actually happening. This isn't 1943 France.
[This message has been edited by dobey (edited 07-01-2011).]
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09:45 PM
Jul 7th, 2011
Will Member
Posts: 14252 From: Where you least expect me Registered: Jun 2000
I'm sorry. I thought this was the "Technical Discussion & Questions" forum, and not the "Xenophobes Against China" one. Clearly I'm mistaking this site as being about Fieros, despite its title. And I don't expect the distributor to necessarily know who manufactured it, no. The people at AutoZone don't instill such confidence. But both distributor and manufacturer are important pieces of information, whether you can get one piece from the other, or not. But the fact is, that it's traceable.
China doesn't need to "wage economic war" on us. We're plenty good at screwing up our economy without anyone's help. China didn't destroy our housing market or our banks. We did. China isn't destroying our economy. We are. And yes, I've read The Art of War, The Prince, Tao Teh Ching, and plenty of other books. Just because you're a paranoid xenophobe, doesn't mean it's actually happening. This isn't 1943 France.
Is it paranoia if they really *are* out to get you? Did you miss the part about the renminbi being pegged to the US dollar? Were you not paying attention when President Obama spoke with Pres Juntao about it and was told "we can go lower"? If they allowed their currency to float the way almost every other currency in the world does, their increasing prosperity would cause their currency to rise, changing the price-competitiveness of Chinese exports. Just because we're screwing ourselves up doesn't mean they're not *also* pulling themselves up by trying to pull us down. Also, just because you're naively expecting everyone in the world to place nice, doesn't mean they are.
While it may be "traceable" in that there is a theoretical method to trace it, I don't think that the information is available to joe consumer.
quote
Originally posted by dobey: Stop blaming everyone else and take responsibility for your own actions.
Excuse me?
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05:20 PM
Cliff Pennock Administrator
Posts: 11808 From: Zandvoort, The Netherlands Registered: Jan 99
