I just wanted to own page two!

I finally got a picture of the screws I'm looking to replace. These are the sheet metal screws that hold the brake/clutch lines to the body of the car. They have a 10mm hex head and are basically the same length.



I'll be visiting a couple hardware stores this weekend to see if I can find some replacements, but it would be much nicer to know the type/size of the screws so that I might be able to call and order instead of driving around to find them.

quote Originally posted by grsychckn: I finally got a picture of the screws I'm looking to replace. These are the sheet metal screws that hold the brake/clutch lines to the body of the car. They have a 10mm hex head and are basically the same length. I'll be visiting a couple hardware stores this weekend to see if I can find some replacements, but it would be much nicer to know the type/size of the screws so that I might be able to call and order instead of driving around to find them.

Hey Tony is rebuilding my Formula and replacing almost all the nuts and bolts give him a call or e-mail him if you get a chance. He needs a lot of hardware for my car and maybe you two can work together to find the parts. My car has more then 90 percent of the parts on the underside powdercoated. Are you restoring everything on the bottom of your car?

quote Originally posted by RustyFormula: Hey Tony is rebuilding my Formula and replacing almost all the nuts and bolts give him a call or e-mail him if you get a chance. He needs a lot of hardware for my car and maybe you two can work together to find the parts. My car has more then 90 percent of the parts on the underside powdercoated. Are you restoring everything on the bottom of your car?

I'm probably not going to restore everything on the underside, but I'm thinking I might slap a coat of bed liner under there - I still have a lot of that left over from my engine bay painting. Thanks for the heads-up, I'll be contacting Tony soon.

Well, I finally got some time to work on the car this weekend. Unfortunately I don't have a lot of pictures for the work I did. When I was debating whether or not to put the new brake lines on, I decided to go ahead and rebuild the entire front suspension and steering. I took it all apart a week or so ago and dropped off the crossmember, control arms, and all other pieces to get powdercoated. I painted the unibody inside each fender with a product from eastwood.com called rust encapulator - sticks very well and doesn't chip off easily (not as shiny as POR-15, but so far seems to be more durable). I bought all new ball joints (1" lowering) from Rodney Dickman, and all new steering components (Rodney Dickman for tie rods and Fiero Store for rebuilt rack & pinion). The powdercoating cost around $525 for all the front suspension which was much more than I was expecting. I also tack welded the lower ball joints into the LCA. 3 of the 4 steering to crossmember bolts broke off when I tried to remove the rack & pinion before powdercoating, so I hammered those three off the crossmember and fabbed up some bolts on a 1/4" steel plate so I could re-attach the steering unit once I got the new one from the Fiero Store. Here are a few pics I took this morning before I left for work:





Next up is to sand down the poly bushings so that the LCA fits because the outer rims on the bushings are too thick to fit in the crossmember. Then I have to figure out how to reinstall my stock springs without killing myself in the process. I also bought a new set of front and rear spindles that I'm currently painting to keep them from rusting to anything (knuckles or rotors) because the old ones were a pain to remove. I'll hopefully have another update tomorrow.

<whining>Alright, how the heck do you re-install the front springs? I have mounted the lower control arm and I have used my spring compressor, then wrapped the coils with a chain because my compressors won't fit on the spring while it's mounted, but the chain was too wide and scratched up my $700 powdercoating job. I then tried my 5000lb rated nylon ratchet straps but they made several bigger scratches and now the spring itself will probably need to be repainted. This sucks!</whining>

But seriously, I've searched the forum and I can't find a good solution - maybe I need to buy some different spring compressors?

We found the 10 mm screws at inlinetube.com
Part# clp150

Thanks RustyFormula, I'm going to order some tonight.

quote Originally posted by grsychckn: <whining>Alright, how the heck do you re-install the front springs? I have mounted the lower control arm and I have used my spring compressor, then wrapped the coils with a chain because my compressors won't fit on the spring while it's mounted, but the chain was too wide and scratched up my $700 powdercoating job. I then tried my 5000lb rated nylon ratchet straps but they made several bigger scratches and now the spring itself will probably need to be repainted. This sucks!</whining> But seriously, I've searched the forum and I can't find a good solution - maybe I need to buy some different spring compressors?

I think I found my own answer. It's amazing what a good search can return.

https://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...040710-2-044887.html

Well, I'm basically done with the front suspension. I just need to get some cotter pins to put through the upper and lower ball joints, then get the new front hubs and brakes put on and I'll be complete. I've decided to paint the underbody of the car with the bedliner I used in the engine bay. I know some are worried about the weight of the paint, but let's be honest - it'll probably be at most 5 lbs evenly distributed over the length of the car, so that'll make up for all the insulation, trunk, etc. that I've removed. I managed to get the gas tank out last night and will be replacing the fuel pump with my new high flow pump tonight. The inside of the tank looks great, so I'm not going to do much to the tank except maybe see if I can get a special paint to make sure the welds on the tank itself are sealed to prevent rust. New pictures:







I'll be selling these front hubs & knuckles soon as I bought new ones

pretty intense work there, keep it up!

Well, I got the painting done on the underside of the car. I also replaced the stock fuel pump with a new walbro unit, but lost my replacement dampener. I guess I'm going to have to order another one if I can't find it tonight. I also painted the gas tank with some paint I got from eastwood.com.

Well, I finally got the tank put back and mounted. I also mounted the stainless steel brake lines (not to calipers yet), and began mounting the IC. Today arrived my early Christmas present in the form of some HP Split-5 wheels. Unfortunately, they didn't have any 18x9 wheels in stock nor were they expecting to get some for a long time, so I went ahead and got the 18x8s. Earlier this week my new tires arrived as well. I'll have them mounted and balanced next Wednesday possibly. Here are the picts.

Wow dude this car is top notch, I can only hope mine comes out close, the eastwood stuff you painted on the inside front fenders did you just scrub them up and brush it on? I cleaned mine once but they are still nasty looking, I have all my suspension out and would like to clean that area up both front and rear, maybe under the car like you did, I haven't taken the gas tank out yet, but I don't think I can use a spray can under the car shooting up, without making a total mess of my floor etc...

KEEP UP THE PHOTOS PLEASE!!

quote Originally posted by multmigs: Wow dude this car is top notch, I can only hope mine comes out close, the eastwood stuff you painted on the inside front fenders did you just scrub them up and brush it on? I cleaned mine once but they are still nasty looking, I have all my suspension out and would like to clean that area up both front and rear, maybe under the car like you did, I haven't taken the gas tank out yet, but I don't think I can use a spray can under the car shooting up, without making a total mess of my floor etc... KEEP UP THE PHOTOS PLEASE!!

First off, thanks for the compliments - I've sure spent a lot of time and effort trying to do things right so I don't have to go back later and re-do them because I'm not happy with the results.

The Rust Encapsulator application was pretty straightforward. I sanded all the spots down with 100 & 200 grit sand paper (pneumatic sander makes the job much easier & quicker), then I rubbed xylene (also known as xylol) over where I sanded. If there was a spot where bare metal was exposed I applied some POR-15 product called Metal-Ready that creates a thin layer of zinc on the top of the metal to prevent rust. Then I just painted the Rust Encapsulator on with a brush, although a small roller would probably have made the job easier.

I am unsure how long/durable this stuff will be, but I had a bad experience with my POR-15 job on my rear suspension because it chipped off so easily. This may do the same, but at least I'm trying something different. Heck, I've even managed to chip off the powder coating, so nothing is guaranteed to work flawlessly IMO. I would never recommend spray painting an exposed part of the car if you want it to last. The paint will come out very thin and therefore be extremely easy to chip off. I applied the bedliner with a roller and went very light with my coat underneath (tried to keep the grit in the paint to a minimum), yet I have a feeling this will last longer than the Rust Encapsulator I used on the front suspension - but time will tell.

Good luck on your project, dropping the tank can be a pain, I would recommend getting new filler neck hoses so you can cut your old ones off when removing the tank, then unscrew your filler neck itself from the driver's side of the car when re-installing the hoses (makes life much easier).

I'm going to post some more pictures tonight, but since my good camera died, I have to wait until I can get a SD card reader so I can upload them to my webserver.

More picts of the wheels.

I don't think any of your ideas are bad, I myself got the eastwood extreme epoxy chassis paint for the larger parts I couldn't powdercoat like the subframes, the A arms etc I powdercoated. I just didn't recall if they had a roll on system for that stuff, I will ask next time I go up, sounds like you used something else. And yes POR15 does tend to chip, I was nervous about using it undercar myself.. its great for interior or underhood stuff.... You should make yourself a webpage when you're done the whole thing, I'm looking into the same for mine, I can't take all the negative commentary that appears when you try to post a build thread on here....

quote Originally posted by grsychckn:Well, I got the painting done on the underside of the car. I also replaced the stock fuel pump with a new walbro unit, but lost my replacement dampener. I guess I'm going to have to order another one if I can't find it tonight. I also painted the gas tank with some paint I got from eastwood.com.

It looks like you painted over the zinc bars on the underside. Or did you mask them to keep the paint off? It's difficult to see in the photo. Painting them is a no-no 'cause those things keep your chassis from rusting.

quote Originally posted by WAWUZAT: It looks like you painted over the zinc bars on the underside. Or did you mask them to keep the paint off? It's difficult to see in the photo. Painting them is a no-no 'cause those things keep your chassis from rusting.

I'm not quite sure what you mean. Do you mean the wholes in the bottom of the chassis where there appears to be zinc in behind? Everything I painted but those were already painted the same as the rest of the frame. Also, the bedliner I used is supposed to seal (except for where I misses spots - I went back and got them) and protect against rust as well. I don't see where painting over zinc will hurt anything, but maybe I'm misunderstanding you.

Wow this is quite an amazing thread. Very informative.
Thanks for all the pictures and details of such.

quote Originally posted by grsychckn:I'm not quite sure what you mean. Do you mean the wholes in the bottom of the chassis where there appears to be zinc in behind? Everything I painted but those were already painted the same as the rest of the frame. Also, the bedliner I used is supposed to seal (except for where I misses spots - I went back and got them) and protect against rust as well. I don't see where painting over zinc will hurt anything, but maybe I'm misunderstanding you.

Those zinc bars are sacrificial anodes. They should not be coated and should remain exposed. The theory is that when everything gets wet, electrolysis starts, and the weakest of metals will corrode first. By introducing an even weaker metal (zinc), it becomes the weak leak in the corrosion chain. We install zinc bars on the outer hulls of ships at the aft end to keep the propeller(s) from becoming corroded. We also install them inside certain structural tanks to protect the structure itself. You'll also see them on most any outboard boat motor. The first time I looked beneath my Fiero, I was impressed to see that GM had installed those sacrificial anodes. Even though you've applied a thorough coating to the underside, it's those zinc bars that would've protected the areas your coating did not reach ... the areas you cannot see ... like between the various sheet metal stampings that were spotwelded together to make your chassis.

quote Originally posted by WAWUZAT: Those zinc bars are sacrificial anodes. They should not be coated and should remain exposed. The theory is that when everything gets wet, electrolysis starts, and the weakest of metals will corrode first. By introducing an even weaker metal (zinc), it becomes the weak leak in the corrosion chain. We install zinc bars on the outer hulls of ships at the aft end to keep the propeller(s) from becoming corroded. We also install them inside certain structural tanks to protect the structure itself. You'll also see them on most any outboard boat motor. The first time I looked beneath my Fiero, I was impressed to see that GM had installed those sacrificial anodes. Even though you've applied a thorough coating to the underside, it's those zinc bars that would've protected the areas your coating did not reach ... the areas you cannot see ... like between the various sheet metal stampings that were spotwelded together to make your chassis.

Gotcha - good info. I wouldn't have ever thought about that - I'm going to see about perhaps removing the paint from those. I saw an episode of Dirty Jobs where the used the zinc on a water barrier for a similar reason. + for ya.

Well, finally got some progress done with the intercooler. Here are some pictures of the heat exchanger mounted. I also mounted the pump just in front of the right front wheel. The fan I'm using is a SPAL 7.5" puller fan and will mount one switch in the dash to activate the pump and the fan. The fan will run whenever the pump is running (at least for now). Picts:

[This message has been edited by grsychckn (edited 05-28-2007).]

Not forsure if thats a good place to mount that heat exchanger for the IC. I mounted mine in the same area but tilted up against the condesnor. Where it is mounted is going to catch everything that goes underneath the car and with the way it is sitting probally get a hole knocked in it. The way I have mine mounted still gets banged up alittle on the lower portion from objects going under the car.

[This message has been edited by MstangsBware (edited 05-13-2007).]

quote Originally posted by MstangsBware: Not forsure if thats a good place to mount that heat exchanger for the IC. I mounted mine in the same area but tilted up against the condesnor. Where it is mounted is going to catch everything that goes underneath the car and with the way it is sitting probally get a hole knocked in it. The way I have mine mounted still gets banged up alittle on the lower portion from objects going under the car.

True, I also had a hard time deciding where to mount it. The big problem I had with mounting it vertical (slightly) was that I would have to mount it lower than the A/C heat exchanger in order to get it to fit. I'm in agreement with you though that I'm unsure if this is the best option for me - but at least it's not a critically functioning piece. That being said, I'm also in a time crunch to get the engine cradle installed as soon as possible because I will be moving in two months and need to get the car to rolling-chasis condition so it can be towed/transported. I don't imagine I'll have time to go back and change it for now though. Thanks for the input, I'll definitely be looking into the location of the heat exchanger once I get things ready to move.

quote Originally posted by grsychckn: True, I also had a hard time deciding where to mount it. The big problem I had with mounting it vertical (slightly) was that I would have to mount it lower than the A/C heat exchanger in order to get it to fit.

To get the HE to fit level with the condensor, you have to cut a section of the thin front section out. Both cars I installed an IC with this HE, I had to do this. The metal is thin in the area so its easy to cut, even without a plasma cutter. Of course if you are going A/C delete then you can just remove the A/C condensor but most like to keep the A/C. Depending on how you are running you inlet/outlet lines, you might only have to cut out a notch in the upper area of the metal.

Do you have any pics of what you describe as the cutting the metal area? I have my front end all off down to the subframe for some repair I'm thinking it would be real smart to buy and mount a intercooler HE now as I'm planning on adding that next winter anyway and they are relatively cheap $100 from what I see....

BUMP for any update on this over the holiday weekend? I'm really interested in the mounting of the HE in the same area as the AC condensor and the cutout required as mentioned above??

quote Originally posted by multmigs: BUMP for any update on this over the holiday weekend? I'm really interested in the mounting of the HE in the same area as the AC condensor and the cutout required as mentioned above??

I don't have any updates on the HE as over last weekend (Carlisle) I saw a couple cars where it was mounted in the same place as mine and from what I hear it seems to work fine. I'm going to keep what I have and relocate if it seems to not be good enough for me. I had the same problem as you because I couldn't find pictures of an intercooler installed with the AC condensor, so I decided to go this route. I didn't have to cut anything (yet), and this won't be a daily driver or an off-road vehicle, so puncturing the HE will not be that likely - especially given that it would have to tear my bumper up first. Rocks will hit it regardless of where it is mounted (glancing if horizontal, direct if vertical), so the only differences I can see would be the efficiency of airflow and ease of filling (horizontal being more difficult to fill).

That all being said, the hoses have been routed to the back of the car, so I just need to wire up the fan and the pump to be done with the IC install for the front of the car.


I also installed the firewall insulation.


Also, I got the design worked out for the "returnless" system as described by FastFieros. The idea is that the fuel pressure regulator is moved from the fuel rail down to just past the fuel filter. Here the return line can be fed back to the tank instead of routing it from the rails themselves back down, eliminating the need (in my case) for the fuel rails to be connected from one to the other. I now just tee the feed line and route one line to each rail at one end and plug the other, no need to cross fuel lines underneath the throttle body. Of course, I will also have a fuel pressure gauge permenantly mounted in the engine bay, so I'll be able to ensure the right pressure is being delivered. I'll post a better picture once I get the lines made and installed.


Lastly, I need to find the ignition wire so I can fab up the IC fan and pump relays to a manual switch I have. From what I've read here on the forum, it should be a pink wire - but from the diagrams in the '88 service manual it describes an orange/black wire. Anyone got a picture? I've got a picture here I took this morning, but I think it's actually on top of the steering column, so it's not visible here. I wonder if I can splice it somewhere else for use with these relays (headlight harness?)...

[This message has been edited by grsychckn (edited 05-28-2007).]

IMO the returnless idea is not the best one. There are a few speculations as to why gm started doing this returnless fuel idea, and all of the ones I know where not preformance based. The issue with this system in high flow situations, IE larger injectors, there is a burst of needed fuel when you drop the pedal, due to AE (acceleration enrichment), and the returnless system is proven to create a spike of low fuel pressure during this time. Also IMO the biggest problem with the returnless is this fact.

Lets say your at a racetrack, you just did a burnout, then pulled up to the lights. The guy next to you takes his time, and your idleing using very little fuel. That fuel not being used is sitting in the fuel rail being heated up to over twice or three times the temperature than what would be noticed in a return system, as fuel is constantly moving through the rail. The returnless system also acts like an intercooler for the rail, keeping it well below actual engine temperatures.

Now in your case, the returnless idea is a good one due to the complications of setting the fuel rail system up as you need to with the IC, i mostly posted that information for people looking to do it on stock swaps.

There are a ton of pink wires all over the car that get ignition voltage, just because it says "ignition" doesnt mean you have to go poking around the actual ignition area. My idea would be to tap into the injector power wires in the center console.

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: The returnless system also acts like an intercooler for the rail, keeping it well below actual engine temperatures.

I think you mean the "return system." Thanks for the info, I wouldn't want to mislead anyone with what I'm doing. My goal is to try and make the engine bay as uncluttered as reasonably possible. This is just one of several performance tradeoffs I'll be making so that I can have something nice to look at when complete. I have no intention on racing this car once I'm finished - so anyone who is, listen to darkhorizon. =] Thanks again for the info - I'll see if I can find those injector wires.

[This message has been edited by grsychckn (edited 05-28-2007).]

I know why your doing it and it is only logical to do it with custom rails like your are doing.

Thanks for the correction.

Ok, been a while since I've had an update (been under the weather last few weeks). I finally got the front-mount battery tray installed and the optima put in place. I also finished wiring up the intercooler pump and fan for the heat exchanger. Here's some picts. I hope to get everything up front wrapped up tomorrow.

so this is one of my favorite builds. If i end up swapping a new motor in my fiero, it will be that one =]
This build is really clean, i love it =D
keep up the good work

------------------

84 2m4

[This message has been edited by Duke_On_Fire (edited 06-23-2007).]

quote Originally posted by Duke_On_Fire: so this is one of my favorite builds. If i end up swapping a new motor in my fiero, it will be that one =] This build is really clean, i love it =D keep up the good work

Thanks, I've spent a lot of my time and money trying to do things right and clean - it's nice to know people notice. It's also nice as motivation to continue working on it as it's easy to get stuck in a rut sometimes.

Very very nice, looking forward to see how this works!

Well, I finally got the front brakes done! It was much more difficult that In originally thought because I decided to drill the 5x100 holes based on the wrong corvette rotors I paid to have drilled. The big problem was that I used a 1/2" drill bit and that was not big enough, so all my holes had to be enlarged. I then painted the inside of the rotors to keep them from rusting hopefully.



I also wanted you guys to see the caliper decals I got - the picture doesn't do it justice because the silver decal has a lot of flake on it so it will catch your eye when under the sun.

[This message has been edited by grsychckn (edited 06-30-2007).]