Trying out the clutch again. Many hours and yet not success. I'm trying out the following procedure, allegedly from Archie. There's also one following from Jonesy. I'm gonna try Archie's first. They both look to be effective, however I have never gravity bled a system.

Clutch bleeding procedure from Archie:
You can do it your way, But this method always works for me.
After checking to be sure there are no leaks in the Clutch Hydraulic system.
Complete ALL of the following steps before test driving the car:
1) Install a helper in the drivers seat to push in and let out the clutch pedal on command.
2) Remove the cover from the Master Cylinder reservoir.
3) Top off fluid in the reservoir.
4) During the course of this procedure DO NOT allow the "helper" to "pump" the pedal. The "helper" is to depress and release the pedal on command only, DO NOT PUMP THE PEDAL. (See theory below)
5) You will be opening and closing the bleed screw on the slave cylinder as instructed below. CAUTION: During this procedure protect your eyes from squirting brake fluid.
6) (Helper) Press clutch pedal in fully and hold.
7) (You) Open the bleed screw to allow fluid to escape.
8) (You) Close bleed screw.
9) (Helper) Release pedal completely
10) (You) Top off fluid in reservoir.
11) Repeat steps #6 thru #10 no less than 5 times before going to #12 below. NO PUMPING!
12) You have now bled the Master Cylinder and the hydraulic line. YOU ARE NOT DONE YET!!!!! We must now bleed the Slave cylinder. (This is what the manual doesn’t tell you)
13) With no further action to be done with the clutch pedal, you can no remove the "helper" from the drivers seat and have him (her/it) help you do the following.
14) After topping off the Master Cylinder, completely remove the bleed screw from the slave cylinder.
15) Have the "helper" stand at the ready with the bleed screw and the appropriate wrench for installing the bleed screw.
16) PROTECT YOUR EYES!
17) With the bleed screw removed. With both hands grab the push rod coming out of the slave cylinder and push it into the slave cylinder as far as it will go AND HOLD it in.
18) Your "helper" will now install and tighten the bleed screw while you hold the plunger in.
19) When bleed screw is tight release the rod and as it comes out guide it into the proper position on the clutch arm.
20) Top off the Reservoir and the job is complete.


Clutch bleeding procedure rom Jonesy:
Gravity bleeding alone wont get all the air out of the slave.. After the master has been bench bled, and installed. Hook the flex line up to the new slave, but done bolt it up yet.. Bleed the slave first.. first put pressure on the slave rod, then have a friend open the bleeder, and push the slave rod all the way in untill it bottoms out, then quickly close the bleeder, and let the rod fully come back out on its own.. When your pushing in the rod, dont be afraid to put some muscle into it.. It doesnt go in easy, and when you do bottom it out, dont stop pushing untill the bleeder valve has been shut.. Then check the master to make sure its not too low.. You can nearly empty it with just one "pump" of the slave. I recommend doing that with the slave at least 3 times.. Once is usually enough, but if you get two nice smooth streams out in a row with no bubbles, then you know for sure your good.. Then slide the slave rod into its hole, and bolt it back up.. Then jack the front of the car up about a foot, so the master is higher than the slave, and gravity bleed the whole system untill you have filled the master 5 or 6 times.. Then you should be good too go.

I'll post results.
Suggestions welcome.

-Michael

just tried it
no luck

I think my throwout bearing is on backwards.

-Michael

quote Originally posted by Fierology: No. It's actually all stock '84 suspension but for the Poly bushings. I just cleaned it all up and painted it. Now that it's on the ground it feels real stiff, even w/ stock parts. -Michael

my 84 has the handling package with the stiffer springs and the tighter ratio steering box. your rebuild looks real nice. i plan on doing an engine/transmission swap in the future and im collecting the parts necessary now.

quote Originally posted by Fierology: I think my throwout bearing is on backwards.

i did that this last winter when i put in my new clutch. easy to do. keep at it, you'll get it in right.
jon

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I'm the original owner of a white ' 84 2M4 purchased Dec 10, 1983 from Pontiac. Always garaged, no rust, 4-wheel drifts are fun!

quote Originally posted by longjonsilver: my 84 has the handling package with the stiffer springs and the tighter ratio steering box. your rebuild looks real nice. i plan on doing an engine/transmission swap in the future and im collecting the parts necessary now.

Oh, I didn't know there was one. Is that an optional factory package? I had great difficulty compressing my front springs enough to install, and it seems remarkable stiff. How do I know if I have that too? I think it's stock because it looks rather stock and it came with the car.

-Michael

I went ahead and ordered Rodney's slave. I'll report as to results once it comes and I install and bleed it.

-Michael

quote Originally posted by Fierology: Oh, I didn't know there was one. Is that an optional factory package? I had great difficulty compressing my front springs enough to install, and it seems remarkable stiff. How do I know if I have that too? I think it's stock because it looks rather stock and it came with the car. -Michael

i believe that the sport coupes had the handling package and it consisted of stiffer springs front and rear, a tighter steering box - fewer turns lock to lock - special 13" aluminum wheels, and a leather wrapped steering wheel. perhaps there were other changes as well, i dont know. you can tell on yours if you have the leather wrapped wheel - similar to a GT wheel.
jon

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I'm the original owner of a white ' 84 2M4 purchased Dec 10, 1983 from Pontiac. Always garaged, no rust, 4-wheel drifts are fun!

awesome, I think I must have the sport package, then!
Longjon, how high does your front end stand? I've been noticing that my front end is really high and, while I like it stiff, it seems so stiff as if the springs don't even move. Does your front end seem to sit higher than the back end?

Also interesting to note: our cars may have been on the assembly line together, as mine was made in December of '83.

-Michael

Clutch/Hydraulics Thread Here

I wrote to Ram Clutches for help. So far they're terse and unhelpful. I'll see if they redeem themselves.

-Michael

Clutch still hasn't fully disengaged.
I dropped the drivetrain on cradle today. This week I'll be separating tranny and block to inspect clutch components.

-Michael

clutch disk was on backwards. disk effectively trashed. Pressure plate & flywheel seem fine. I'll buy new clutch disks and clutch fork bushings & seal.
Anything else that I should get while I have this apart?

-Michael

Here is a thread on whether or not I should replace the fork.

-Michael

Note to self: parts to buy from tfs

61909 alt wire
54036 lower fork bushing
54034 upper fork bushing
54022 fork & shaft seal
54142 clutch disc

Took out the engine and found that the clutch was in backwards. Replaced the clutch disc and reinstalled everything (not an easy job, mind you,) and I drove her. It was great for about 30 seconds when the clutch decided it wouldn't release anymore. I have Rodney's Isuzu slave, and yet it seems to be a slave problem. I bled the slave independent of the line bleeding. It seems to be sucking in air, which, I daresay, sucks pretty badly.

I daresay this is annoying, and I don't know why it's doing this. I turned it on tonight after it had time to cool, and I was able to shift through all the gears, no problem whatsoever. Tried it again after it warmed up and it wasn't disengaged at all. This sounds like air in the line, right? As my fluid is new and shouldn't have any water in it.

I'll keep y'all posted. Any and all ideas are greatly appreciated.

-Michael

EDIT: typo

[This message has been edited by Fierology (edited 08-10-2010).]

She Lives! Pics later. I'm crazy low on time.

Just fixing up the speedometer so that I can pass inspection, and it's being a pain right now.

-Michael

Congratulations Michael!! I just read the thread from beginning to end and I am very impressed! You did an awesome job and I'm sure that Fiero will be going strong when my kids' kids (either still yet to be born, haha) are of driving age. Nicely done and documented as well, I envy your space to work and time have to wrench

[This message has been edited by ImperfectTruth (edited 08-26-2010).]

Thanks ImperfectTruth. I'm glad you appreciate it! There is great reward in driving a car on which I've spent so much time. I surely can't thank God nor my father enough for giving me such a good workspace. Unfortunately I'll be out of state for yet another 2 months, but when I get back I'll try to get a bunch of finished pictures on here, maybe videos too.

-Michael

Fierology,
So what happened with the clutch anyway? How did ya get it working right? I found that bleeding the clutch just right is rather tricky. By the way beautiful work on that 84. The new rails and suspension work you did looks primo!

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84 Duke, Holley TBI, Manual Trans 4.10, CompuCam, White

quote Originally posted by White 84 SE: Fierology, So what happened with the clutch anyway? How did ya get it working right? I found that bleeding the clutch just right is rather tricky. By the way beautiful work on that 84. The new rails and suspension work you did looks primo!

Hi White SE,

The clutch, the infamous clutch. This is my first clutch to work on, and I made a classic error in installing it. I put my clutch disc on backwards, thus rendering it unable to disengage fully. The engine had run enough and I'd tried the clutch enough in this arrangement that I'd ruined the disc. I bought a new disc and put it on correctly this time, and all worked like it was supposed to. I now have a stock, cast iron slave cylinder in there. I bought Rodney's, thinking that I put the disc on right and this would give me the throw I needed, but he gave me a bad bleeder valve, so it never worked properly. Other bleeder valves wouldn't work on his; I can't remember why. Anyway, the bleeder valve sealing surface wasn't machined properly. (This may be a blessing, for it probably kept me from pressing to hard on the backwards clutch disc.) Luckily Rockauto hadn't accepted my unopened stock part as a return, so I used it, and it worked. I still have to send Rodney's back. It's a shame it didn't work, for that would have been an upgrade. I'll probably do the Miata double-seal rebuild whenever this one starts to fail. I should have a number of years before that happens.

I just got home from school last week and have been itching to drive it. I forgot to put the already old battery on the tender while I was away, so it's shot. I got a new one at advanced yesterday. I also got new oil & filter that I'll be changing soon. First, however, I have to fix my door locks. I have the new locks and the plastic clips to put it all back together are coming in the mail, hopefully very soon. The only issue I'm running into right now is a misplaced piece. One of the small wire-like rods that work the lock and latch mechanism in the driver's side door is missing. I'm disassembling the passenger's side door tonight so that I know exactly what it looks like. I'm also replacing the outer dew wipes while I'm in there and fixing the window guides. I'll have to figure out how to fix the window guides, as they were scratching my windows. It shouldn't be to difficult, I assume, to get something in there that will work, once figure out just what is wrong with them.
I hadn't realized how much there is to rebuild & revitalize on these doors! I need to get them done so I can drive it.

That's all for now. Into the cold garage now.

Merry Christmas to all,
-Michael

-Michael

quote Originally posted by Fierology: awesome, I think I must have the sport package, then! Longjon, how high does your front end stand? I've been noticing that my front end is really high and, while I like it stiff, it seems so stiff as if the springs don't even move. Does your front end seem to sit higher than the back end? Also interesting to note: our cars may have been on the assembly line together, as mine was made in December of '83. -Michael

no, my front end is quite low as a matter of fact, but its my REAR that sits up more like a 4x4 than a sports car. i have moved the battery to the front, removed the cat and the air conditioning compressor - and estimated 80-90 lbs removed from the rear and say 50 added to the front, which might partly explain the stance. dunno why yours might seem to be high up in the front. thot about putting rodneys lowering ball joints in the rear, but he said that in the rear those ball joints would RAISE the car not lower it, so its back to square one with my ungainly height problem. maybe ill find some springs from another fiero and cut them to lower the rear. im working on fuel issues right now trying to get my car to become reliable, will drive it in the spring - no rust for me thank you very much!
jon

edit to add: i never believed that pontiac really used magnesium on the center grill of the 84, but last summer i cut a grain of sand size piece off and put the torch to it - i was about to declare the barbecue grill a myth when it began to glow white hot for several minutes. WOW! really impressive! the barbecue grill came off within minutes of that little demonstration. (guess who is the meat?) then i had to figure out how to cover the hole in the deck lid in front of the motor. i used a mercury capri front scoop turned backwards. now i have a project to fibreglass the sides of the decklid to make a finished product. i have vents on both sides and in the center as well. in addition i removed the cat which is right under the barbecue grill as that is the hottest part of the whole car. i welded in a 2 1/8" tube to replace it. safety is far more important than emissions imho.
jon
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I'm the original owner of a white ' 84 2M4 purchased Dec 10, 1983 from Pontiac. Always garaged, no rust, 4-wheel drifts are fun!

[This message has been edited by longjonsilver (edited 12-24-2010).]

Intersting about your ride height. My only conclusion is that my front springs are not the standard '84 factory springs. Perhaps someone ordered taller springs to accomodate a steep driveway or something like that. They're incredibly stiff, too, so that if I were to cut them they'd get even stiffer.
It's not too bumpy, though.

I wouldn't think that <100lbs from the rear of yours would raise it that much. Did you notice it unusually high before you removed the cat and stuff?

Also of interest- how come you removed the magnesium, so that it wouldn't burst into flames if it got too hot?

-Michael

EDIT: and my springs appeared stock on taking them out- matte black w/ a white sticker. Unfortunately I threw the sticker away, not thinking it'd ever be important

[This message has been edited by Fierology (edited 01-12-2011).]

Back from school again. In warm weather I'm having the same idle and roughness issues. I think this is because of a bad TPS and a bad IAC. My IAC was clogged and not working properly, so, per a youtube video tutorial, I cleaned it up. However, I think that guy mislead me because it seems to be non-functional now. I unplugged the IAC while idling-- no effect. I tried revving-- no effect either. I think I've killed it. I'll get a new IAC and new TPS. My battery is also draining. I'm gonna have Advanced Auto test my new battery for me (when I order the electronics), and they should replace it if it's the culprit for the drain.

-Michael

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"A guy know's he's in love when he loses interest in his car for a few days." -Tim Allen

He who dies with the most toys... still dies.


My '84 Resto

It's amazing how much extra work it is to restore a Northern car with all that rust.
Your doing a great job.

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86 Fiero 2M4 Silver, and 86 GT

Passed the 10k miles mark, including a couple trips to and from Florida. Of course there are always details to fix/maintain, but she's working well. Someday I'll get a new paintjob.

-Michael