Ok, I "think" I have everything wired up except the speedo (need to make the buffer circuit) cruise control, A/C and C2 61(I believe)

I have 5 wires for the A/C, 3 for the sensor from the PCM and the 2 wires from the compressor(green and black). The green one goes to the A/C relay (request) but I cant see where the black one goes unless it is a ground. Ideas??

C2 pin 61 is for the alt (pin B or L I think) and the pins on the alt are not labled and there are 4 of them plus the bolt and nut for the battery lead. Where does C2 61 go to?

Thanks

Steve

The black from the compressor goes to ground.

C2-61 goes to the red wire of the 4 pin Alt connector. There might be letters on the Alternator for that connection.

What year AC? Stock AC compressor for that year? Your existing AC did work? Do you know how a relay works? The ECM does NOT connect directly to the compressor to turn it on but instead turns it on via a relay.

Automatic or manual transmission?

[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 02-05-2011).]

Thanks Mike. Maybe it is on the plug which I dont have yet. Part of the problem is that this harness came from a car that had the PCM inside and the harness was in pieces with the C1 and C2 cut off from everything else. This is the way I got it.

I am going to try to go to the yard today and get the PCM from the 97 Regal and double check for plugs and other small things I will need.

Just now looked on Ryans site and there seems to be a difference between 97 wiring and 98 -02 wiring. dont know if they have any 98 and up L67 cars out there or if the differences would pertain to my setup.

PM/email Ryan now.

Thanks

Steve

The 98 and up PCM's are preferred to the 97 from what I remember. I don't know what that means as far as the actual connector. The pinning iis different for sure.

I don't remember what the complaint on the 97 PCM was.

I admit, it wasnt worded the clearest but yes ,I did wire the compressor to the relay.

Steve

I emailed Ryan and found that I can not use a 97 ECM so I guess I will be looking for a 98-02 when I get a chance.

Steve

Just wanted to clarify that the 97 PCM can be used in a Fiero 3800 Series 2 SC swap (as long as you are NOT using a 2003-newer 4T65-E transmission). JumpStart emailed me and said he had already modified his wiring harness per my 98-02 instructions - in which case his 97 PCM won't work with that wiring scheme.

The 97 PCM used the same wiring connectors as the 98-02 PCMs. But the wiring pinouts are much different. Also, the 97 PCM is physically bigger than the 98-newer PCMs so the 97 PCM won't fit in the stock Fiero ECM mounting location (inside the car) unless you heavily modify the center console. The 98-newer PCMs fit with no problem at all, and are generally better computers to use because they are more common and more widely supported by aftermarket tuning and scanning software.

-ryan

Well actually

quote Originally posted by JumpStart: I am going to try to go to the yard today and get the PCM from the 97 Regal and double check for plugs and other small things I will need. Just now looked on Ryans site and there seems to be a difference between 97 wiring and 98 -02 wiring. dont know if they have any 98 and up L67 cars out there or if the differences would pertain to my setup. Steve

quote Originally posted by phonedawgz: The 98 and up PCM's are preferred to the 97 from what I remember. I don't know what that means as far as the actual connector. The pinning iis different for sure. I don't remember what the complaint on the 97 PCM was.

quote Originally posted by JumpStart: I emailed Ryan and found that I can not use a 97 ECM so I guess I will be looking for a 98-02 when I get a chance. Steve

So since he doesn't have it yet the 98+ works out pretty good right now

[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 02-07-2011).]

Yes it does. I didnt mean to say that a 97 will not work on mine, just that it wouldnt because I had already wired it for a 98+. A good thing though, I didnt know about the size difference and mine is wired to go to the stock ECM location so all is good.

Steve

I checked car-part.com and found some ECMs close by for 3.8 but it didnt ask if it was a sc or na.

Does it matter if it is SC or NA as long as it is a 98-02 GM car with a 3.8?

Steve

Doesnt matter as long as you have it re-programmed. Just but one already programmed from Ryan(GMtuners.com), he usually has some on the shelf he can sell you. I think It's like $85 for progrmming and $40 for the PCM from him.

Thanks again Mike,

Just a question out of curiosity since the ones posting here have been very helpful and reliable on the information,

How much HP and Torque can you get from the 3800sc without compremising gas mileage and dependability (or very little) using simple methods like programming,smaller pulley, ect...

I had read that it isnt hard to get it to 300+ hp. Dont know about torque though.

Steve

Looking at what I have left on wiring (still no ECM yet)

Do we use only 1 wire to the alt? (other than the hot lead bolted to the back)

Also, info on above question on hp and torque?

Steve

Yes, most the alts only need the one red wire to the PCM. I have had one that wanted power to the grey wire, but have not seen one like that for a while, guess it was an oddball.

I cant answer you HP/torque question, I know 280HP is achievable without internal mods.

From more reading, it seems that the first thing other than a tune would be headers or most anything else done would not be of any benifit from lack of exhaust flow.

Steve

Edit: didnt know that KR showed its face as easily as it does on the 3800sc.

[This message has been edited by JumpStart (edited 02-12-2011).]

Nevermind. Stupid mistake. Pardon while I go shoot myself.

Steve

[This message has been edited by JumpStart (edited 02-20-2011).]

Better safe than sorry.

What all wires to the terminal below the c500?

Right now I have 2 white wires to the top(running to the switch in cab I assume) and the one for the alt with 2 eyes which also has a second smaller wire with inline fuse which I wired to C1 PIN 20 (Hot all times)

Thanks, Steve

Not sure what your two white ones are, there should also be one running direct to the battery positive along with the alternator, and I run a fused one from there to the DLC and speedo buffer if using one.

The direct to positive is on the battery cable running to the starter (short piece) which goes on the bottom terminal....
The double eyelet for the alt which goes to both......
And 2 medium size wires that run into the body harness (has to be for the starter switch)

Maybe that is all?

Thanks, Steve

Ya, that sounds about right, do the two smaller ones have fusible links ?

Not that I can see.

Ok, to keep from starting another thread and a few including Mike and phonedogz and L67 check this thread and have been very helpful, Ill ask here.

First of all, It runs. I just need to get the rest of my exhaust together and put it on per Ryans instructions. Thanks Ryan.

The evap canister is in question now. I have a plug listed as "evap canister purg solenoid" and nowhere to plug it in. Am I correct that the evap canister is on the driverside strut tower? If so, I have 1 large tube running to the tank and 2 vacume tubes that run along the trunk to the pass side. Im sure that these 2 need to go to the intake somewhere but also some ports are affected by the SC.

Where do you run these 2 tubes to and where is the "purge solenoid" at?

Thanks again,

Steve

[This message has been edited by JumpStart (edited 03-21-2011).]

Most 3800 swappers delete the evap system and just keep the canister connected to the fuel tank vent to collect fumes. On the 3800 the purge solonoid is on the engine near the boost bypass. I believe you use a vac line of the top of the SC to the purge solonoid, and from there to the canister, not really sure, I have never hooked one up !

quote Originally posted by Mike Gonzalez: Most 3800 swappers delete the evap system and just keep the canister connected to the fuel tank vent to collect fumes. On the 3800 the purge solonoid is on the engine near the boost bypass. I believe you use a vac line of the top of the SC to the purge solonoid, and from there to the canister, not really sure, I have never hooked one up !

In order to hook up the EVAP Purge solenoid, this is what you need to do: On the EVAP Purge solenoid, there are two nipples for vacuum line connections. One is labeled "CAN", the other is not labeled at all.

The one labeled "CAN" is what you are going to run to both ports on your Fiero's stock charcoal canister (the two that originally went to the stock engine; the third remains hooked up to the tank vent line). You'll need a vacuum "T" connector so you can hook both these ports up to the single "CAN" port on the EVAP purge solenoid.

The other port on the EVAP purge solenoid needs to be connected to a manifold vacuum source. You can pick this up at the top vac port on the blower housing or on the one coming off the side of the stock throttle body. DO NOT hook it up to the vac port coming out of the lower intake manifold (as this port will see boost and you need that for connection to your fuel pressure regulator and MAP sensor; the boost solenoid also connects to this if you are using it).

Now I've gotten in the habit of hooking up the EVAP systems on all the swaps I do. I just had a Fiero with a 3800 SC swap in my shop a few weeks ago (someone else did the swap and I was fixing a few things on it). And they removed the EVAP system and left the vent line open. My shop reeked of raw gas fumes pretty much the entire time the car was in there. There were no liquid fuel leaks, but the fumes were coming from the gas tank's vent line as the car warmed up when the heat was on. I don't leave the heat on in my shop at night so everything cools off (almost down to outside winter temps); thus the fuel was undergoing temperature swings causing vapors to be pushed out the open vent line. You won't have this problem if you leave the charcoal canister installed. But if you do leave the charcoal canister installed, you will need to hook up a purge system to it or it will quickly become saturated with vapors.

The charcoal canister can be moved from the stock mounting location if you don't want to look at it. I've mounted them in front of the rear tire on the passenger side in that open space under the expansion tank on 87-88 cars. Pretty easy to do it in those applications since the vent line is already over there. You can mount it there in older Fieros, but you'll need to run the vent line from the tank to it.

-ryan

[This message has been edited by Darth Fiero (edited 03-21-2011).]

Thanks Ryan and Mike. It seems that someone had removed the solinoid before I got the engine so I will pick up a new one. The canister is fine in the stock location and the only thing I am deleting is the EGR (was told it has a habit of gumming things up)

Thanks again,

Steve

quote Originally posted by JumpStart: the only thing I am deleting is the EGR (was told it has a habit of gumming things up)

Not really. Yes, the EGR valve does introduce exhaust into the intake manifold which can put a thin layer of black carbon on everything over time. But a properly running and maintained engine isn't going to accumulate enough of this "carbon buildup" to hurt anything in a 100,000+ mile lifespan. You are going to get more build-up from gasoline vapors that make it into the intake manifold after you shut the engine off and oil vapors from the PCV system than you will from a properly working EGR system (when used on a properly maintained engine).

-ryan

[This message has been edited by Darth Fiero (edited 03-22-2011).]

quote Originally posted by Mike Gonzalez: Here Ya Go !

For MANUAL TRANS SEE NOTE, what is the note?

For the VSS ? It is to splice the yellow VSS wire to go to both c203 pin G and also C1-64 of the PCM. Same should be done for the purple VSS wire too.

[This message has been edited by Mike Gonzalez (edited 05-05-2012).]

double post

[This message has been edited by XgovernmentAgent (edited 05-05-2012).]

Yes, The PCM just needs to know if your moving or stopped for drivability issues, and if your still using the Fiero Manual trans the signal just goes straight to the speedo.

I'm using the getrag for now, so I just need to hook the VSS up to the C203 correct?

Thanks for all the info!

quote Originally posted by XgovernmentAgent: I'm using the getrag for now, so I just need to hook the VSS up to the C203 correct? Thanks for all the info!

Yes, hook it to C203, but also split each line to the 3800's PCM.