Pics down below

[This message has been edited by FriendOfYours (edited 08-16-2011).]

lol, damn it, that's why i clicked!!

That is so wrong!!!

How well will an M90 feed a 4.9? I thought it had a hard enough time filling up 3.8 liters.

A few years ago a guy by the name of Pete, from Ontario Canada (IIRC) built a turbocharged 4.9L that his wife Becky drag raced. Becky used to turn low 12's with the combo which is really excellent for this engine. To my knowledge no one has installed an Eaton M90 on this engine so far but I believe that I may have seen a Whipple on one a while back.

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" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, 3.4" Pulley, N* TB, LS1 MAF, Flotech Exhaust Autolite 104's Custom CAI 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

quote Originally posted by 1fatcat: How well will an M90 feed a 4.9? I thought it had a hard enough time filling up 3.8 liters.

The VE is low, the engine doesn't turn many rpms, and the heads can barely breathe. It should liven up the motor a great deal. I'm just finishing up the adapter for the manifold today so I'll have pics to share soon. I just got too excited and posted about it lol

quote Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: A few years ago a guy by the name of Pete, from Ontario Canada (IIRC) built a turbocharged 4.9L that his wife Becky drag raced. Becky used to turn low 12's with the combo which is really excellent for this engine. To my knowledge no one has installed an Eaton M90 on this engine so far but I believe that I may have seen a Whipple on one a while back.

PBJs build is what made we want to do this. He never pushed the motor to it's limits and I want to find out where that is

[This message has been edited by FriendOfYours (edited 08-13-2011).]

quote Originally posted by FriendOfYours: PBJs build is what made we want to do this. He never pushed the motor to it's limits and I want to find out where that is

I believe that PBJ's engine was pushed to its limits in the 1/4 mile. Becky went all out and didn't let up so it would seem thats the limit. IMO this engine will only produce so much with forced induction. Ports and valves are tiny and you may have difficulty raising the stock 4500 RPM redline to over 5000 RPM.

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" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, ZZP Intercooler, 3.4" Pulley, N* TB, LS1 MAF, Flotech Exhaust Autolite 104's Custom CAI 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

He said so himself that he could have gone further

We will see, eventually lol

Pics or it didn't happen!

The turbo they used was far too small...

quote Originally posted by fieroguru: Pics or it didn't happen!

quote Originally posted by fieroguru: Pics or it didn't happen!

X2....

quote Originally posted by fieroguru: Pics or it didn't happen!

PBJ built the turbo 4.9L going back 4 or 5 years ago. Pete was a regular forum participant back then along with his wife Becky (Her86GT) Beckys 12 second 1/4 mile times were discussed in detail back then. I don't remember the exact times but they were in the 12's. There may still be some info in the archives. As far as I know Pete & Becky did their thing, had their fun, then sold the car and got out of the hobby. I do not believe that you can go too much farther with the 4.9L than Pete did for reasons outlined in my other post. Search the archives and you might even find a post with a time slip.

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" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, ZZP Intercooler, 3.4" Pulley, N* TB, LS1 MAF, Flotech Exhaust Autolite 104's Custom CAI 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

quote Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: PBJ built the turbo 4.9L going back 4 or 5 years ago. Pete was a regular forum participant back then along with his wife Becky (Her86GT) Beckys 12 second 1/4 mile times were discussed in detail back then. I don't remember the exact times but they were in the 12's. There may still be some info in the archives. As far as I know Pete & Becky did their thing, had their fun, then sold the car and got out of the hobby. I do not believe that you can go too much farther with the 4.9L than Pete did for reasons outlined in my other post. Search the archives and you might even find a post with a time slip.

They ran the car for several seasons and never had an engine failure or even any minor issues (per Pete). This by itself tells me they never ran it to the limit. Maybe the limits of that setup but not of what the motor could potentially do. The turbo was small any they only ran 5-8 PSI on it. Thats not very much.

Theory: If someone were to make the cylinder sleeve mounting more ridged, o-ring the sleeves, and use a better head gasket I see no reason a much higher boost couldn't be used successfully.

I think a centrifugal supercharger is the way to go on this motor. Boosted in higher RPM range without increasing off the line power. Easy plumbing to boot. If those chargers weren't so damn expensive I would have already done it.

With a low mount alternator though an M90 would bolt on pretty nicely. We need pics!

EDIT: The 4.9 does not have a 4800 redline. That is about where the suto trans shift points are set at though. A stock 4.9 valvetrain in good condition can handle 6k. It can also be upgraded with an allante steel rocker support, headwork for better valve springs, and larger valves and end up with an even higher redline.

[This message has been edited by Fieroseverywhere (edited 08-15-2011).]

quote Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: PBJ built the turbo 4.9L ...

I was referring to the m90 supercharger setup. I am fully aware of PBJ's setup...

I'll be out of town until Wednesday but I've got a couple pics in my cell. I'll try and get them up in a bit I gotta upload them to pbucket since PIP won't work for some reason

!!!!!!!!!!!WE NEED PICS NOW!!!!!!!!!!!
please.

My son cut the bottom piece backwards so it doesn't line up with the holes I tapped in the intake. The base plate is just tacked on









Still have to make the braces so it isn't just held up by sheet. Will be finishing that up and start vacuum forming the dizzy cap when I get home

[This message has been edited by FriendOfYours (edited 08-16-2011).]

I don't see why it couldn't make 300-350hp

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Turbo 3800 E85 5spd spec5
11.53@126.7

Now that's something I want to do, that's awesome.

[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 09-30-2011).]

I would be very tempted to use the Allante lower intake.
It would be lower and less restrictive, and the size of the area where the runners attach would also appear to mate up to the blower outlet better.
(You wouldn't have to taper it down. The added advantage would be a more stable platform to support the blower.)

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Raydar
88 Formula IMSA Fastback. 4.9, NVG T550

Praise the Lowered!

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 08-16-2011).]

quote Originally posted by Raydar: I would be very tempted to use the Allante lower intake.

Agreed. The attachment would be longer snout to thottle body and have more stability, especially considering the force the snout will be seeing.
I would also suggest making the adapter portion out of 1 1/2" or 2" aluminum plate with the inside portioned milled/contoured to create the needed air path.

quote Originally posted by fieroguru: Agreed. The attachment would be longer snout to thottle body and have more stability, especially considering the force the snout will be seeing. I would also suggest making the adapter portion out of 1 1/2" or 2" aluminum plate with the inside portioned milled/contoured to create the needed air path.

Geez guys, I'm not done yet. I still have to square and chamfer these ports. Also, I will be milling out the the top of a spare intake, making another adapter and then comparing the difference.

This intake is readily available and I just sold my Allante in the mall. The lower runner length is almost the same on both and with how short they are the shape doesn't make much difference. I worried about it pressurizing the 8 runners unevenly with Allante. I think the larger chamber being shared is a safer bet

Steel doesn't transfer heat as well as aluminum. I will be bracing the ends and sides to ensure stability... plus this is much cheaper

Looks good. How high will that blower be? And what do you mean about vacuum forming a distributor cap, how is that done? What is done? I'm interested. Thanks.

quote Originally posted by FriendOfYours: Geez guys, I'm not done yet. I still have to square and chamfer these ports. Also, I will be milling out the the top of a spare intake, making another adapter and then comparing the difference. This intake is readily available and I just sold my Allante in the mall. The lower runner length is almost the same on both and with how short they are the shape doesn't make much difference. I worried about it pressurizing the 8 runners unevenly with Allante. I think the larger chamber being shared is a safer bet Steel doesn't transfer heat as well as aluminum. I will be bracing the ends and sides to ensure stability... plus this is much cheaper

The 4.9 manifold is pretty horrible... it's extremely squashed. The runners come UP to the ports.

While what you're doing is an interesting bit of fabrication, I would have milled out the center of the stock manifold and welded up an aluminum plenum to which the M90 would bolt. This would end up very similar to the 3800SC manifold, would allow the blower to sit much lower on the engine, and should help out the 4.9's tiny ports with shorter, straighter runners.

Also, I have an AutoRotor 1.3 litre twin screw blower for sale. Would you like it?

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 08-16-2011).]

I can't go any lower without going to a crab cap and wheel trigger. It's only 1.5 inches higher than the stock TB and Intake tube

Don't know if you caught it, but this is just the first one I'm making. If it makes no difference to mill and weld up a larger chamber, i'll stick with this as it is much simpler.

One thing you may not have considered yet....

On the injectors. Larger injectors will most likely be needed to go along with this. This brings a unique challenge with it. Aftermarket injectors for the 4.9 are usually slightly shorter then the stock ones. Generally 1/8-3/16" shorter. Under normal conditions this is not really a problem. With boost though I would take a serious look at it and make adjustments accordingly. The fuel rail mouting tabs can be shortened for one solution and I'm sure others exist also.

Just keep an eye on this. It would suck to lose boost out the injector holes while starving the engine for fuel.

[This message has been edited by Fieroseverywhere (edited 08-16-2011).]

quote Originally posted by Fieroseverywhere: Just keep an eye on this. It would suck to lose boost out the injector holes while starving the engine for fuel.

And spraying fuel on a hot engine due to the unseated injector. Good tip.

Thanks for the suggestions fellas but I had definitely thought of that. At the moment I have just a general outline until I get all the bigger hurdles out of the way. It's nice to have the forum and get everyone's input at the same time

I've been building hot rods since '71 and dabbled in top fuel for a while. I'm not really new to the scene

quote Originally posted by FriendOfYours: I can't go any lower without going to a crab cap and wheel trigger.

Ditch the distributor. Go to dual 4 cylinder ECM's and DIS coil packs.

quote Originally posted by Will: Ditch the distributor. Go to dual 4 cylinder ECM's and DIS coil packs.

The 7730 ECM can handle the 4.9 and DIS. The trick would be in the code though. Just a thought.

quote Originally posted by Fieroseverywhere: The 7730 ECM can handle the 4.9 and DIS. The trick would be in the code though. Just a thought.

The 7730 run a Northstar with DIS just fine... but the Northstar ICM requires a specific 32x trigger wheel.

The 7x trigger wheel that a 4 cylinder DIS understands can be had as a bolt-on kit from WOT Tech.

Why not just use a turbo insteadof a blower? at least you would have more performance.

Because I spent $90 for this m90 with only 43k on it and have about 500sqft of 14g sheet. I can easily add an intercooler or methanol injection to this and there is enough blower to make the 300+whp I'm looking for

Only took about three hours to make the braces and intake and now all I have to do is form the cap. Might have that done tomorrow night

That looks like a M90 off a T bird not a GM one. I have one sitting on my shelf and the TB is straight and longs, not short and bend like that one is. It also looks taller, (fatter) then the GM version.

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88 Formula CJB Arrived Finally. #689 of 1252
Time to start Working TONY!
There are Two kinds of Fiero's : Notchies and Donors!

That is clearly not a T-bird M90. The T-bird M90 does not have an integral TB, or mounting flange like the GM versions.

So will you be using the original throttle body or an in-line throttle body? I'm curious about how to make an in-line throttle body work instead of the TBI looking one that comes with the engine.

I heard you could run the oem throttle body wide open and use an in-line throttle body to regulate the air but that makes the tps, isc, & vacuum lines useless. Would you need to do any computer programming to use an firebird throttle body or just rewire?

BUMP!! Don't give up on this project =)

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-Kyle
Email: kakagiraffe@gmail.com
Aim: Littlechugger
1988 Notchback 4.9 V8, 5spd Isuzu, Spec Stage 4
True Dual Exhaust, Delta Cam (212,000 Miles)
1992 Honda Accord LX (220,000 Miles) 5spd

Actually that is an m62

I'll be using the 3800 TB with the sensors from the 4.9l TB adapted

...all I can say is, so much for the decklid.