I don't know... 1 month and one day since the last post... it's awful quiet in this thread. Time for some progress!

Hi Blooze, I know what you mean. I was commenting on Corpsmen Ed's thread today and realized I had fallen back to page 15.

We have been busy cutting out the rocker sheet metal on the passanger side, building the new passanger side chassis reinforcement as well as looking at the required extended windshield mods and scratching my head till it hurts. That little sub-project is going to have to wait a few months. We've also been finishing off the sheet metal on the chassis extension. That takes alot of welding and grinding to make it look almost factory finish.

I've also been designing a suitable method to rotate the chassis upside down to assist in welding the underside of the chassis reinforcements. While it's upside down, I will touch up the chassis underside in the fuel tank area. I am also thinking about installing a flat panel bottom atleast in the area of the cabin and as far forward as possible. It won't be as extensive as the F355 but I think it would look pretty cool none the less. I have been test cutting various thicknesses of UHMW sheet and adding a tongue and groove joint where panels meet each other. I think black UHMW with large head countersunk SS bolts mounted flush would look pretty slick. I'm thinking 3/8" thick panels and while the weight may be significant, it will be very low on the car and as we know, the CG of the car moves towards the additional weight. This plan will require adding a few threaded pads under the chassis to secure the panels too. It will be easier to finalize the design once the car is upside down.

To Corpsmen Ed, keep up the great effort on your project and don't be discouraged if you can't keep the momentum of interest going every night of the week with the boys. When there is something interesting to see or do, they'll be more than interested to help out. We all know how hard it can be at times to push ahead when a task seems daunting or progress is slow. And don't listen to the nay sayers. I have never built a car in my life but there is a huge resource of experienced builders on this forum that are more than willing to share their wealth of knowledge. Just keep posting your progress and include lots of pics along the way.

Well I guess since it's the first day of the year, it's time to post an update.

The drivers side rocker reinforcement is welded together and ready for sandblasting and priming before final welding to chassis and the passenger side is almost tacked and ready for welding. To help provide a secure welded attachment to the chassis in the area of the A pillar, I decided to add a flange to the frame. This will bridge the gap as the A pillar sheet metal actually angles away from the new frame.



I designed a flange using 3/4" x 1/8" flat bar and formed it to match the shape of the frame and the A pillar. I don't think the Fiero chassis has a 6" stretch of straight sheet metal that hasn't been given a stamped bend, dimple, hole, flange or boss. This really becomes apparent when you try to measure and drawing a part or fasten a flat surface to some portion of the chassis. I think the chassis designers must have been paid a bonus for every change in sheet metal orientation they could incorporate in the final structure.

Here is the flange design.



And here is the final flange tacked to the frame.



And here is the final rocker frame in place on the drivers side.



Here are a couple shots of us welding. My youngest son claims he's the better welder. I think he is just more flexible.




Next step is to get the passenger side rocker frame done..... when its not -10 degrees C in the garage.

Wow. Super clean looking fabrication Yarmouth. I can't wait to get back to metal fabrication again... drawing on the computer is getting old.

Thanks Blooz. I agree, while measuring and drawing can be rewarding and a great way to learn the intricate details of a car, actual fabrication is much more satisfying when you can stand back afterwards and admire your work ( or be disgusted with the results and rip it out to do over...ha-ha-ha-ha).

Flange is a great addition! Really makes the stiffner an integral part of the original structure. "Extreme gusset" you might call it? I'm not an engineer so don't know the technical term for it, but it just looks like it "belongs" there to me. I expect your finished chassis will have no more flex than a factory stock space frame...maybe less!

Nice work!

HAGO!

NIce work! The car is looking great! Can't wait to see more progress on this. Also nice to see there are a couple other nova scotian's on PFF as well. Have a great new year.
Troy

Thanks Sage, I'm really hoping that the chassis atleast retains the original strength/ stiffness once the roof is off. I know the key is to get a strong connection between the chassis and the additional frames so hopefully the little details like gussets and flanges will do the trick.

Hi fieroaddicted, I guess there are a few NS members here now. We'll have to organize a valley get together when things defrost this spring.

Along with the chassis upgrades, we'll start work on the V8 Santa brought us. Its only 12" long so maybe I can do a longitudinal installation afterall.

quote We'll have to organize a valley get together when things defrost this spring.

That sounds great! let me know if and when. Bixby (wade) is in Truro. I talk to him a lot, but have never got up to meet him yet. He has quite a few parts (if you are looking) and has done a few swaps.
Troy

Troy: PM sent.

Yarmouth: I'll try to round up a few mice to power that V8.

Great idea Troy. I believe there are a few PFF members in Halifax and I am sure Blooz knows a few as well. Have you posted any pics of your car yet? You can put them in my thread if you haven't started one already.

Thanks Blooz. I can always add a longer crank handle so we can get a higher mpci output ( mouse per cubic inch).

I think the transparent V8 will add a cool factor to my swap

quote Have you posted any pics of your car yet? You can put them in my thread if you haven't started one already.

I posted a few of my engine progress so far, but it annoys the crap out of me trying to put pics on here. lol I can't seem to get the hang of it. Most of what I have taken are on facebook...it's a lot easier. lol

quote Originally posted by fieroaddicted: BTW do either you or bloozberry know anyone who would want the old 2.8L from my car?

PM sent

Anything new going on with your build Yarmouth?

Its been a busy start to the year with work and extra cirricular activities but we got the passanger side rocker frame built and ready for final welding. I'm a little meticulous so we take it pretty slow making sure we are happy with every cut.







I also picked up a 4' x 8' x 1/2" Black UHMW that we'll be using for the flat bottom panels later in the build once the chassis gets flipped over.



Saturday the boys and I headed up to Martock for some skiing. But the line ups were long and slow moving and $250 seemed like a bit much for a few hours on the slopes. So, like any car enthusiast, we headed to the city and spent $150 at Kartbahn for some indoor Kart racing and then headed over to Princess Auto to pick up a few supplies and a new pedistal grinder. Now that was money well spent.



Next step is to fabricate the firewall reinforcement truss.

geez man, very nice work. Things are looking great!
troy

Nice work reshaping those rails. Keeping it neat and tidy goes a long way to getting it certified later on.

I'm not sure what you're you're devising for a flat bottom using the UHMW plastic, but you might end up with overheating problems if you close off the cradle. The higher pressure air flowing under the car gets sucked up through the cradle openings and into the engine bay by the lower pressure air flowing over top of the car. That airflow though the engine bay is important to keep things cool... although up here in NS it's probably not as important as in AZ. The airflow would benefit from a plate under the gas tank though.

Thanks Fieroaddicted....... it's a long slow process but alot of fun along the way.

Hi Blooz... for the flat bottom panels I am only thinking the bottom of the cab and then narrow up to the front cross member and just to the forward rear cradle mounts so the engine compartment is still wide open. I'm thinking 180 headers on the SBC so there is going to be alot of extra exhaust pipe and heat down there. In the area of the fuel tank, that would be a separate panel incase there was a need to drop the tank. I think this will be an exercise to add a little personal touch more than improving aerodynamics under the car as its pretty flat down there already.

On another note, has anyone ever looked at laying the radiator back rather than forward as the stock orientation? Is there any benifit to ducting the air through the F355 front nose opening to the radiator and then down under the tub?

WHAT?? You're not going to use mid-mounted radiators?!! Sacrilege!

I know... I know..... but all this chassis reinforcement is cutting down space where they should be going. If I could fit them between the additional frames and the body, I'm not sure where the air flow will go. Will yours be ducted into the engine bay or the rear wheel wells or downward ahead of the rear wheels?

I'm thinking they'll be ducted partially through louvered wheel well linings, and partly in the tunnel above the linings and wheel inside the rear quarter panel, and ducted and exhausted through the rear tail light panel (which will be a grill a-la F355 F1).

Well it might still be possible since the new frames are inboard of the B pillar and thus completely inline with the door scoops. I may have to have them as tall and narrow as possible. Is there a good source for OEM radiators with applicable dimensions? I'd hate to have to go the custom route.

If you can't tuck them into the space behind the b-pillar, I'm not sure you'll have enough surface area to get the amount of cooling you'll need from tall narrow rads. For example, the aftermarket Honda Civic radiators I bought will completely fill in the space between the fiberglass body and the frame rail. They're rated for approximately 200 HP each so anything smaller than that is going to be rated for less cooling capacity and could give you problems.

You probably will have to stick with the front mounted radiator given those reinforcements. A good rule of thumb is to try to maintain the same overall surface area of the original rad but I've used a stock front mounted Fiero rad in my 308 replica for years so you should be OK with that.

With the rocker frame reinforcements being welded before final installation, we are now proceeding with the transverse reinforcement of the engine bay side of the firewall. When the roof is removed, a significant portion of the transverse structure will be lost, even though most of the roof is missing for the factory sunroof already. Still, we want to add as much transverse support as possible. Also, I expect much of the lower trunk structure to be removed in the future for the exhaust system.

Originally, I had thought about installing a triangulated truss structure made with 1" x 1" x 0.100" HSS. This would tie both the upper and lower frame rails together as well as stiffen the firewall. But after talking with Bloozberry about the engine deck hinge locations for the 355 engine deck cover, it became apparent that the stock Fiero hinges and supporting hinge boxes would have to be moved anyway. With this is mind, I decided to rethink the design of the additional transverse structure. With the hinge supports removed, it allowed me the option of installing a substantial transverse beam across the top of the firewall between the upper frame rails. The preliminary design is a 3" x 3" x 1/8" HSS with a forward sloping face angled at 17 degrees to match the firewall inclination. As well, I added a 1" x 3" x 1/8" HSS below the beam and angled to tie the lower frame rails to this beam. Then a triangular shaped gusset of 1/8" plate on each side to tie the whole structure together. The beauty of this structure is that it will allow me to install 2 roll over hoops behind the seats and these will be welded directly to the new structure. This has always been a desire of mine since we decided on a spider...... and I'll have 2 teenagers taking turns at the wheel some day.

Here is a quick view of the preliminary design. My new Rhino Rev 5 has a ton of cool rendering options but I'm still trying to figure them out... thus the poor quality rendering tonight.



So with this design in mind, we began removing the hinge boxes and numerous equipment attachment points that GM had so thoughtfully spot welded all over the fire wall. I don't think there is a more soul sucking job than drilling out spot welds.



Good thing they don't have to be reused.



The now " Naked" firewall.



Next step is to remove all the leftover spot weld reminents with the blending disk.

As a side note, it was also a good afternoon to work on a school project. Teach a kid to drive and your tank will always be empty. Teach a kid to build his own car and he'll be able to fabricate DNA for his grade 9 science project.

quote Originally posted by fieroaddicted: That sounds great! let me know if and when. Bixby (wade) is in Truro. I talk to him a lot, but have never got up to meet him yet. He has quite a few parts (if you are looking) and has done a few swaps. Troy

I am in Pictou County (just outside New Glasgow). 1984 Fiero with 355 sbc and 4 speed. Doing some work this winter to get a little more power and I have the parts for the rear GT conversion.

Wade

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1984 Fiero, Black notchback, 355 SBC, 4 speed

Hi Driver_WT...... I would love to see your car this summer. As you know, we're planning a SBC install as well. We'll certainly have to find a central location and get together for a bar-b-que and car admiration session.

Very nice! The chalk and charcoal look is really cool and makes it very easy to see what's what. I think the roll bars can enhance the look of the car. Just think of all the Miatas that were retrofitted with them... even though they weren't part of the original design, they improved the look tremendously in my opinion. They also make a lot of sense.

Thanks Blooze. This Rhino 5 has lots of cool new features and it allows the non artistic type like me to produce something that I could never do by hand. It also is a little easier to look at when you are trying to capture style. The glaring colors of a 3D model can be hard to look at sometimes. It will be cool to see it develop as I slowly draw out each piece and add it to the drawing.

I agree that the hoops may add a touch of uniqueness ( is this a word?) and if they are done right and installed correctly, they'll hopefully add some much need safety to the car. They certanly won't be bolt on. I've already discussed with my local powder coater about the possibility of getting the transverse beam with hoops welded in place into his oven. Then the rest of the structure can be welded to the beam and the whole assembly installed into the chassis.

Anybody with experience in this exercise?

When I'm working on something custom and want to add an off the shelf part, I usually try to make the part fit without modifying it by designing my brackets to accept the part unaltered. That being said, I don't know what's available out there, what you want exactly, and wheather there is room to modify/add brackets. Just a thought from my end.
I love what you've done and am looking forward to seeing your progress!

Food for thought... http://www.google.ca/search...sAQ&biw=1440&bih=756

Just splendid!

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"A guy know's he's in love when he loses interest in his car for a few days." -Tim Allen

He who dies with the most toys... still dies.


My '84 Resto

Thanks Reallybig and Fierology. I am glad you like it so far. Still a long-g-g-g-g-g way to go though.

With regard to the hoops, I would like to buy some aftermarket chrome moly units that have long stocks that can pass through a stubstantial tranverse beam and welded top and bottom. This beam would then tie into the upper frame rails directly and also lower frame rails via 1 1/2" x 3" x 1/8" HSS. These would also tie into the transverse beam via gusset plates. Note, I left the upper frame rails off the first image to show the inside of the transverse beam. I am hoping that the structure wil be adequate as is so that I don't have to add rear braces to the hoops, as seen on many cars. I welcome comments from those who have installed rollover hoops.

quote Originally posted by Yarmouth Fiero: Hi Driver_WT...... I would love to see your car this summer. As you know, we're planning a SBC install as well. We'll certainly have to find a central location and get together for a bar-b-que and car admiration session.

That would be great.

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1984 Fiero, Black notchback, 355 SBC, 4 speed

Of course, it will be a couple years before I can show up driving anything that resembles a finished car.

Maybe Blooz will lend me one of his many ol' beaters he has laying around for the weekend...ha-ha-ha-ha

How's this?

Seriously..... one white pedal Blooz? Where is the little black one with the shiny rims that I saw down by the Koi pond ??????

Maybe I'll just bring my own. I told you I was partial to carbon.

Still working on the roll over hoops and associated supporting structure. The top of the firewall is bent in such a way as to form a supporting surface for the rear window. As well, there is an additional piece of bent sheet metal installed to give added support to the rear window structure. By adding my proposed transverse frame to support the roll over hoops, the additional frame will protrude down slightly into the engine bay. I've shown the stock engine deck hinge support boxes for reference.



Since I am building a Spider, the rear glass will soon be gone so I am considering trimming the flange off the top of the firewall and also removing the additional sheet metal support that is there. This will allow me to raise the proposed transverse frame by about 1.44" and allow the frame to tuck up under the firewall sheet metal nicely. Again, I've added the stock hinge boxes to help show the position of everything. With the hinge boxes removed, the lower edge of the new transverse frame will be about 3.814" higher than the stock hinge boxes. As they seem to be quite intrusive to the engine compartment, I think this modification will be a noticeable improvement. As well, the new transverse frame will provide a secure location for the new 355 engine cover hinges.



Any thoughts on this design modification?

With regard to the roll over hoop design and construction, I am pleased with my current design as shown. I have been using this document to guide my design with regard to dimensions and material.



Edit to add a view showing the stock firewall structure before modifications so its easier to see what the heck I'm talking about.



I have a length of 1.9" dia. x 0.120" ERW tubing that I will have formed into my hoop design. Our tubing bender has a die for 2" tubing so I will do a test bend to see if it turns out ok.

[This message has been edited by Yarmouth Fiero (edited 01-25-2013).]

By removing the stock "Z" sheet metal that forms the bottom of the stock crossmember, your new metal tube would need at least a 3" height to match up properly with the LH & RH upper frame rails at either end. In fact I measure 80mm between the top of your new crossmember and the bottom of the upper side rails. ( I'm working on a similar design to act as the forward mounting structure for horizontal, fore and aft shocks, so I'm familiar with the area.) So that begs the question: How are you planning to tie your new crossmember into the upper frame rails?