quote Originally posted by FIEROFLYER: Boy people like to argue over which engine they like or think is the best when in the end it boils down to what the guy that owns the car wants period that is it. As for checking heads of every engine well if they are known for having problems then yes I would say check them, especially if you are supplying the engine. Every 3800 that leaves my garage that I have supplied has been upgraded to the aluminum lower intake gaskets and the newer valve cover gaskets. Not because they were leaking but because they are known to be a problem so why not fix it before installing the engine while it is a lot easier to work on and prevent any possible problems that might have occurred if I had not replaced them. I would rather put in a little extra work on the engine before installing to prevent a lot of work later on. Dan

I don't believe that the argument here is which engine is best but which engine is best for modifications. We've seen an honest effort here to modify a 4.9L engine and after three tries it was not successful. That could indicate that the 4.9L is not the easiest or best engine choice to modify. If I had a 4.9L swap request I would first want to hear it run and then only install it stock. The improved exhaust will probably help up power a bit. Old friend Ed Parks of the Fiero factory was one of the first pros to do these swaps and he was adamant about not doing modifications. Sure it can be done but due to its highly unorthodox design, only a very few guys have built and modified the 4.9L with success.

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" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Powerlog manifold, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Flotech Afterburner Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

Just think how boring cars would be if no one ever had the back bone to try and modify them, modifying especially in a new area or in unknown areas is always tricky and requires a lot of attention to details, special care and even trial and error in some cases to get it right. This I fully believe but also believe that if you know there is a weakness in a certain engine or known failure then double or triple check if needed to save your self a lot of trouble or damage later on. Like my example of the 3x00's known to fail plastic lower intake manifold gaskets and the 3800's leaky valve cover gaskets that I replace to be safe and again save a lot of work later on.
Any one can have bad luck or crap go wrong it is learning from it that is the important thing and not giving up with out one heck of a fight to get what you want. Dan

Every engine usually has some flaws but in this case there seems to be too many oddball designs with the 4.9, coupled with very limited aftermarket. I'm sure after 20ish years there's a reason the aftermarket never really developed for this engine.

Maybe someone should try a Toyota 1UZ swap . AFAIK there's plenty of aftermarket and it would definitely have the unique factor if that's what you want.

I thought this was a build thread and not a bunch of farts offering their opinions on which engine is best to swap? Capt has made it clear what he wants many a time, stop cluttering up his thread and wait for the next update cause no one cares about your preferences and I personally don't feel like looking through your crap to see progress on this car when it comes. Especially you blazer, stop being a troll.

quote Originally posted by nitroheadz28: I thought this was a build thread and not a bunch of farts offering their opinions on which engine is best to swap? Capt has made it clear what he wants many a time, stop cluttering up his thread and wait for the next update cause no one cares about your preferences and I personally don't feel like looking through your crap to see progress on this car when it comes. Especially you blazer, stop being a troll.

x1.. well said.

quote Originally posted by nitroheadz28: I thought this was a build thread and not a bunch of farts offering their opinions on which engine is best to swap? Capt has made it clear what he wants many a time, stop cluttering up his thread and wait for the next update cause no one cares about your preferences and I personally don't feel like looking through your crap to see progress on this car when it comes. Especially you blazer, stop being a troll.

Thank You

head bolts for 4.9's are discontinued
when you pull the heads you usually strip the threads on the block so then you have to find a shop who *might* be able to do it but pay then $2000 to set up for it ... not everyone owns their own machine shop...

4.9's are not worth rebuilding. If you got one and it breaks, just swap in another, don't touch it and cross your fingers, that's the lesson I learned, I'm on my 3rd one

PS, anyone want some polished 4.9 heads? They've been sitting around so probably have some surface rust...

Friend Of Yours good to hear your alive, please call me back?

Ian, the shop number isn't on. I'll PM you my cell

FOY I know I said to put it aside for 2 weeks and if that much time is needed, then so be it. Its what I said and I'll stand by it. However if there is any chance you can take care of your other customers on here and have my car road worthy before the 1st of February, it would save me having to trailer the car here. The Temp insurance expires on the 1st. I can buy single day permits at about $35 per day, but would have to mail them down to you, and when I buy them I have to tell them the exact day they can be used, so there would be no room for anyone not being able to do what they say.

At this point I don't care what you do, or how you do it. Even a stock 4.9 and toss the mod parts in the trunk. If you can't pull it off for the 1st, fine, but please fine some way to get the car done. We have both put too much time and money into the car to simply give up.

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857GT Part 85GT Part 87GT Part Caddy, 93 Eldorado 4.9, 5spd Dual O2 Custom Chip, Custom Exhaust. MSD Everything Now with Nitrous. Capt Fiero --- My Over View Cadero Pics Yellow 88GT 5spd Full Poly Suspension, Lowered 1/2" in front, Corner Carver.

It will be before the 1st, I had no intention of putting it off for two weeks even though you said to. I need this done and gone

[This message has been edited by FriendOfYours (edited 01-15-2013).]

quote Originally posted by 34blazer660: the main point is to introduce BETTER powerplants, OP has to start all over again anyway. but im done beating that horse....

You should be done posting in this thread altogether. Nothing you've said is productive in any way. For every idiot like you bashing the 4.9, there's another idiot with a 3800 bashing the SBC's. Running a pissing match about what a "better" swap is doesn't solve anything because it's all subjective.

[This message has been edited by Taijiguy (edited 01-15-2013).]

quote Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: If I had a 4.9L swap request I would first want to hear it run and then only install it stock.

The last one WAS a running pullout... and then it failed anyway.

Even if it runs prior to removal from the donor, it's rare to know the history of the engine. Specifically regarding aluminum engines, overheating is extremely detrimental. In a wet liner engine like the 4.9, the sleeve to block o-rings can fail and leak, which is disastrous. If the block has moved due to overheating, then a sleeve could drop a bit and allow a head gasket to leak. Because the exterior head bolts are exposed to the elements, the threads in those holes are particularly suspect.

GM didn't get aluminum engines right until the LS1... Using an older GM aluminum engine aparently has some caveats.

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 01-15-2013).]

quote Am I expected to pull the heads off every motor to check the head bolt threads before I put a motor in? Of course not. Go back and look at the pictures. Perhaps this last motor could have been saved, if the cam ends up being the issue, but the previous motors were already flawed and I had no way of knowing. Look at the engine bay, does that look like something that was hastily thrown together? Every nut and bolt on was meticulously torqued, all gaskets replaced and I was very careful to ensure the motor never knocked, went lean or severely overheated. I have never asked him for a dime past our agreed amount, I have covered everything and have spent a lot of time on this. I am done with all the negativity projected towards me when I have been upstanding and hard working throughout the entire process. I will no longer be responding. PM if you want to talk, I'll be in contact with Capt and he can post updates.

Foy I am relatively new here and it is not my intent to be stoking a fire...
I admire what services you provide to the community.

That said I have an opinion and I will share it here.
If these were crate engines purchased from a rebuilder I would agree with you.
If they were pulled from anything else yes I would expect you or anyone else to gut the block and check it thoroughly.
The craps shoot isn't worth it to me...
Yes, I, would pay for it/ wait for it...

I think going into new territory with engines etc. is always worth the risk, how else would anything new get accomplished?
Good Luck Capt Fiero and FOY!
Foy-Too many people need what you do.
Just don't let you and them get in a position to be disappointed.

(EDIT based on information new to me on this forum~ if any of it is true... FOY is not who or what he says he is...
What a disappointment!)
;(
~Zep

[This message has been edited by mwzephyr (edited 01-18-2013).]

quote Originally posted by 34blazer660: What are you trying to prove here?

It would seem that you do not own nor have you driven, ANY, swapped Fiero, for any long period. If you had, you would probably have realized that the 3800, SBC, 3500,LS1 or EVEN the 4.9 are all noticeable increases,in performance and dependability over a stock 2.8.

Your post in this 4.9 BUILD THREAD, (NOT a WHICH IS the BETTER engine thread) is the same as
posting to a 2.8 build thread and telling the originator of that thread to dump his tired old 2.8, delete the thread and
use a 4.9. The 4.9 is BETTER, than a 2.8, in terms of performance, and dependability.

It would seem that somene who thinks a 4.9 Fiero is tired old and out of date, would likewise NOT make any modifications
to a 2.8 powered Fiero but would rather dump that engine in favor of something not so old and tired like a 2.8.

But that is not the point. point is a build thread is about puting a PARTICULAR engine into a Fiero, not debating merits.

How does someone that does not have a 4.9 Fiero know much of ANYTHING about the dependability of a 4.9-powered Fiero?
You could only be reading posts others have made. We can read those for ourselves, THANK YOU!!!

[This message has been edited by pdemondo (edited 01-16-2013).]

quote Originally posted by pdemondo: It would seem that you do not own nor have you driven, ANY, swapped Fiero, for any long period. If you had, you would probably have realized that the 3800, SBC, 3500,LS1 or EVEN the 4.9 are all noticeable increases,in performance and dependability over a stock 2.8. Your post in this 4.9 BUILD THREAD, (NOT a WHICH IS the BETTER engine thread) is the same as posting to a 2.8 build thread and telling the originator of that thread to dump his tired old 2.8, delete the thread and use a 4.9. The 4.9 is BETTER, than a 2.8, in terms of performance, and dependability. It would seem that somene who thinks a 4.9 Fiero is tired old and out of date, would likewise NOT make any modifications to a 2.8 powered Fiero but would rather dump that engine in favor of something not so old and tired like a 2.8. But that is not the point. point is a build thread is about puting a PARTICULAR engine into a Fiero, not debating merits. How does someone that does not have a 4.9 Fiero know much of ANYTHING about the dependability of a 4.9-powered Fiero? You are just reading posts others have made. We can read those for ourselves, THANK YOU!!!

are you being serious right now?! LOL so according to you, for anyone's opinion to have any value, they have to own a swapped fiero? i figured thats what you were looking to start here. answer this, genius, how does one take a( so-called) perfectly fine running engine, and destroy it in less than a few miles? bad luck? LMFAO! sorry you got your panties in a bunch, but one fact still remains.... those who spoke out against me have jumped on the "its just bad luck" bandwagon, when 3 engines were destroyed followed by lame excuses. the facts have been laid out long before i offered my opinion, if you dont like it, boo hoo. take it worth a grain of salt.

*edit* and furthermore, since this thread was about a "proper" 4.9, is it OK to post about parts that have been ordered but havent been received? smells fishy in here....

[This message has been edited by 34blazer660 (edited 01-16-2013).]

I'm surprised that you're still here.

quote Originally posted by Raydar: I'm surprised that you're still here.

if im not very diplomatic, i apologize. on the other hand im not going to brown-nose one member while another gets raked over the coals.

quote Originally posted by 34blazer660: if im not very diplomatic, i apologize. on the other hand im not going to brown-nose one member while another gets raked over the coals.

I think he means he's surprised you haven't been speedbanned yet. As am I. Trolling with only 70-some odd posts will get you thrown off this forum in a hurry.
Feel free to perpetuate your pointless dickbanging if you like, but don't be surprised when it gets chopped off.

It's not that opinions, even contrary opinions aren't welcome, it's that so far, from what I've seen you've done nothing to contribute to the subject at hand except to bash the 4.9 swap. Bad idea, there are a LOT of guys with successful 4.9 swaps on this forum. If you don't like the 4.9 swap, fine, we get it. But to press the issue when it's not of any real benefit, particularly to the topic, you're just asking to have your ratings bar show up with "User Banned" under it.

quote Originally posted by 34blazer660: are you being serious right now?! LOL so according to you, for anyone's opinion to have any value, they have to own a swapped fiero? i figured thats what you were looking to start here. answer this, genius, how does one take a( so-called) perfectly fine running engine, and destroy it in less than a few miles? bad luck? LMFAO! sorry you got your panties in a bunch, but one fact still remains.... those who spoke out against me have jumped on the "its just bad luck" bandwagon, when 3 engines were destroyed followed by lame excuses. the facts have been laid out long before i offered my opinion, if you dont like it, boo hoo. take it worth a grain of salt. *edit* and furthermore, since this thread was about a "proper" 4.9, is it OK to post about parts that have been ordered but havent been received? smells fishy in here....

So your "vast knowledge" of the 4.9 comes from reading this post?
We get know-nothings coming on here from time to time preaching to those of us who HAVE ACTUALLY SWAPPED an engine into our Fiero on how to do it better.

lets not wreck a thread about FOY's build for Capt.

Seriously.

Now, how's FOY doing with those burns. That looked really rough.

quote Originally posted by pdemondo: So your "vast knowledge" of the 4.9 comes from reading this post? We get know-nothings coming on here from time to time preaching to those of us who HAVE ACTUALLY SWAPPED an engine into our Fiero on how to do it better.

like i stated above, i dont count unless i have a swapped fiero. who cares about anything else right? i do not feel i need to offer any kind of resume to you. still the fact remains, three 4.9's are garbage right now and the OP has nothing but excuses to back up a hack job. this thread has been off track for awhile now, especially since others have been calling him out over other issues. i offer my opinion, and get totally flamed for it, which is fine. the owner of the vehicle still has NOTHING to show for the money that was dealt out. just a greasy half taken apart car sitting in someone else' garage with no real end in sight. i have discountinued beating the "4.9 is a boat anchor" horse due to the purists all up in arms over it. take it how you want it, the owner of the car is still without a car, but the a$$-kissing of the OP continues.

quote Originally posted by 34blazer660: dickbanging? thats funny. im sure FOY apprieciates you bumping dicks with him, and the rest of the cronies. Capt offered to take a bone stock engine just to be done with this mess. look at the very first post in this thread. not my idea of ones "best treatment." engine number three that was haphazardly tossed together without properly checking EVERYTHING to make sure they all play well together. i didnt see anywhere if the cam was degreed in, or it the STOCK springs and retainers where checked for clearance and proper seat pressure, valvetrain geometry, PTV clearance, etc. everything has been guess work up to this point. forget my stinky opinion, look at what been going on the last couple of months. are you still not seeing my point? ill simplify it even more.....CAPT FIERO is being raked over the coals by FOY. understand that? or you too chummy with him to see that?

First off, I only know a few people here personally, FOY not being one of them. However, I've been around long enough to know that while there has been more than one unethical vendor who's come along and solicited customers through this forum, from what I've seen, FOY doesn't appear to be one of them. If *you* had been reading, you would have noticed that he hasn't asked for any additional funds on this project. Given he seems to be absorbing the cost of parts and labor on this project, then it seems as though your hardon is personal, and not based on any misdoing on his part. Not at least, as far as this transaction is concerned anyway. Don't tell me your heart is bleeding for the grenaded 4.9's? From the way you've so clearly shown your contempt for them I can't imagine you would feel anything but pleasure that there are three less of them in the world to worry about.
I'm not necessarily defending FOY, like I said, I don't even know him. What I'm actually doing is just letting you know that so far you come across as a troll, and trolls get disposed of pretty quickly around here.

[This message has been edited by Taijiguy (edited 01-16-2013).]

@34blazer660:
I think you have made your point many times over.
This really is CAPT's business. Lets leave it there and see what happens.

~Zep

[This message has been edited by mwzephyr (edited 01-18-2013).]

quote Originally posted by Taijiguy: First off, I only know a few people here personally, FOY not being one of them. However, I've been around long enough to know that while there has been more than one unethical vendor who's come along and solicited customers through this forum, from what I've seen, FOY doesn't appear to be one of them. If *you* had been reading, you would have noticed that he hasn't asked for any additional funds on this project. Given he seems to be absorbing the cost of parts and labor on this project, then it seems as though your hardon is personal, and not based on any misdoing on his part. Not at least, as far as this transaction is concerned anyway. Don't tell me your heart is bleeding for the grenaded 4.9's? From the way you've so clearly shown your contempt for them I can't imagine you would feel anything but pleasure that there are three less of them in the world to worry about. I'm not necessarily defending FOY, like I said, I don't even know him. What I'm actually doing is just letting you know that so far you come across as a troll, and trolls get disposed of pretty quickly around here.

i still believe the 4.9 is a boat anchor, its my opinion, take it worth a grain of salt. and no, my heart doesnt bleed for a destroyed engine, so you got that right. my opinion still stands, start a new thread, transfer anything of use i.e. pictures, modifications, useful information. then put the engine together the right way, document everything, take good pics, explain whats going on. i dont see that in this thread, or hasnt been around for awhile. ever since engine number 2 was garbage, it opened the door to others to throw in their .02 including critics like me, well not as bad. but if FOY has a machine shop and lots of experience to back up his know how, i believe we should be asking howto questions not suggesting ways to fix a problem. and asking for ETA's on ordered parts also doesnt belong. Im new, and everyone knows that, but right away i wouldnt want to do any business with FOY because of this thread. bad first impression. i know the car showed up in the shop in primer, but theres also no excuse why it should be in the shape its in. doesnt look good for business. absorbing the costs of mistakes goes with business, and i dont care about that. im wondering why im the only one speaking out, regardless of a good reputation. ever hear the saying, "it takes days, months, even years to gain trust. but only seconds to destroy it." thats my position. I did offer something constructive, its up to the site owner or mods now. this way this problem is a fading memory. im done responding to attacks, so celebrate or something. i hope CAPT Fiero gets what he wanted, 100% i dont feel bad for FOY, sorry, sometimes you have to own your mistakes.

Bump

quote Originally posted by Purple86GT: Bump

You have a PM

quote Originally posted by 34blazer660: You have a PM

I didn't get one from you. Wassup?

quote Originally posted by Purple86GT: I didn't get one from you. Wassup?

awww crap! d/r, i got my wires crossed, LOL

Capt, I really want to see you get your car back! I wish I was closer I would rebuild a 4.9 for you. I had rebuilt mine with almost all the same mods yours had and never had an issue with it. I hope this all works out good for you in the end.

quote Originally posted by FieroMaster88: Capt, I really want to see you get your car back! I wish I was closer I would rebuild a 4.9 for you. I had rebuilt mine with almost all the same mods yours had and never had an issue with it. I hope this all works out good for you in the end.

Thank You FieroMaster, over the years looking at your old car with the 4.9, Allante and Delta cam with a 5spd, it is exactly what I dreamed of and its the inspiration as to why I sent my car to FOY in the first place, as I wanted a 4.9 that would rev, yet still be a nice smooth good on gas car. Stock with the Isuzu I was able to pull off over 30mpg on the freeway with it. It didn't start out that way, as the programing and a few changes needed to be made to the Sensors to get it right, but it was a great setup. I just wanted a bit more RPM from it. I have had the offer from many people that "if they were closer" they would help me out with the motor.

I have sent FOY an email and left a voice message to see where we stand with the car. My preference would still be to get a running car back even after the delays and other issues. However if necessary we can deduct money for the suspension work that has been done and parts he purchased that I asked for. (allante starter, steel rocker supports and cam) Then refund me the balance. I will see if I can find a shop this side of the boarder to complete the car if that ends up being what happens. I have to go to Oregon in the next few days which means I'll be driving right by the shop. I won't be in anything that I could tow the Fiero with though. I don't trust the 700R4 Transmission in the Blazer as it is really high miles, and we don't have a hitch on the GTP (I also don't trust the 4T65HD trans either).

When I am done in Oregon, maybe I'll rent a truck and dolly it back. That is assuming FOY has not found a way to get the car done.

At this point, I think this thread is over and done. Based on what I have seen posted in the other sections of this forum I don't expect FOY to be posting on here about the car anymore.

If the car does get completed, I'll post an update here, if not, I'll start a different thread later on the progress of the car.

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857GT Part 85GT Part 87GT Part Caddy, 93 Eldorado 4.9, 5spd Dual O2 Custom Chip, Custom Exhaust. MSD Everything Now with Nitrous. Capt Fiero --- My Over View Cadero Pics Yellow 88GT 5spd Full Poly Suspension, Lowered 1/2" in front, Corner Carver.

I've responded to the other threads with tracking for everyone, all should be squared away!

David, you are more than welcome to come look at the car when you come down or take it with you. I already have picked up ANOTHER motor I can send with you, but I would be more than happy to put it in. I will check the cam and if it isn't the issue I will put the motor in stock and refund you for the intake

My preference would be for you to install the motor and for me to have a completed running car with at least the Delta cam installed.

I have been sitting here for the last 10 mins after reading your reply agonizing on what to say.

I really don't want a 100% stock 4.9 installed again. However even more so I don't want a blown up 4.9 in the car again either. If you check the cam and it is fine, and you can install the motor with the Delta Cam and Steel Supports that would work best for me. Do you have any idea how long it will take you. If you can get it done quickly I will stay here in BC and wait for you to get it done, then get it Aircared and use the car for my Oregon Trip. If you don't think you can get it done quickly, then I will get my Yellow Fiero back on the road and use it for the trip.

As of 30 mins ago, the plan was for me to take the Yellow 88GT get a new cat installed, and re-insure it as a daily driver, as I figured there was no way you would get me the car in the next week. However if you can, that would be great. I know from other swaps, its a full day to remove a motor and trans / subframe, then a full day to swap all the parts over, and 2 days to get it back installed in the car and all the fluids burped and bled out. Assuming you don't work on the weekends that would put you at about next Friday to be completed.

If you think you can pull that off, let me know.

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857GT Part 85GT Part 87GT Part Caddy, 93 Eldorado 4.9, 5spd Dual O2 Custom Chip, Custom Exhaust. MSD Everything Now with Nitrous. Capt Fiero --- My Over View Cadero Pics Yellow 88GT 5spd Full Poly Suspension, Lowered 1/2" in front, Corner Carver.

I'm bringing the scissor out of storage and down to Roy which will help immensely with me working on my own, I should be able to have it all together in a day or two. Friday should be fine

Despite all of the disappointment, frustration and bad luck, this will end well.

Hang in there guys!

Bump for status updates.

quote Originally posted by Raydar: I'm surprised that you're still here.

Just noticed the Blazer twit has been banned. Yaaaa. He was really start to get on my nerves.


@Purple, Thank You for the bump, I was going to pop in and ask for a Status update myself. Its 9am here on the West Coast. Normally I would not pester for a Status update but with all that has happened and this getting really down to the wire and its so freaking important, I hope FOY can give Daily updates.

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857GT Part 85GT Part 87GT Part Caddy, 93 Eldorado 4.9, 5spd Dual O2 Custom Chip, Custom Exhaust. MSD Everything Now with Nitrous. Capt Fiero --- My Over View Cadero Pics Yellow 88GT 5spd Full Poly Suspension, Lowered 1/2" in front, Corner Carver.

quote Originally posted by Capt Fiero: Just noticed the Blazer twit has been banned. Yaaaa. He was really start to get on my nerves.

Yeah, sorry to stick an arguement in the middle of your build thread. It always seems guys who have ZERO experience with
something are the most critical. Good luck with your build.