.....but then again lets not forget that PBJ did 12 second runs on a turbo boosted 4.9
Exactly. I don't know what kind of boost he was running (thinking around 7-9 lbs?) but I know that car was well flogged and never experienced any engine failures. AFAIK, it's still running - with no failures.
IP: Logged
05:25 AM
motoracer838 Member
Posts: 3751 From: Edgewater Co. USofA Registered: Jan 2006
Exactly. I don't know what kind of boost he was running (thinking around 7-9 lbs?) but I know that car was well flogged and never experienced any engine failures. AFAIK, it's still running - with no failures.
The engine is in a Countach replica currently under construction here in Co. PBJ beat that car like a" redhead step child" and it kept coming back for more
To answer Max Cubes Question, the 4.9 was not created to be used in performance applications, it was used to power fwd Cads and did that job fairly well, and generally doesn't respond well to "tuning" (as far as I can tell, it's the only american V-8 that you can't get aftermarket heads for, aside the Delta cam , there are no aftermarket parts for this engine, that says a lot.), the one exception seems to be boost, and even that has it's limits. Ultimetly the heads are the limiting factor, it's a shame, the engine is a nice fit in the Fiero, I had a 4.9 in my '88, had fun but wanted more, went in another direction and haven't drove it since. too many projects, not nearly enough time.
The 4.9 is a good choice, if your happy with it's level of performance, the delta cam and Allante intake do make a difference, I built a set of tubular manifolds that also made a difference, just not enough.
Cheers Beers n Gearz. Joe
IP: Logged
08:30 AM
Will Member
Posts: 14249 From: Where you least expect me Registered: Jun 2000
The biggest problem with the 4.9 is that pulling the heads usually means destroying the threads in the block for the head bolts. Also the head bolts are discontinued. So heli-coiling the bolts holes on the block is REQUIRED... If you don't do that, good luck torquing down the heads and keeping them at that torque setting.
The biggest problem with the 4.9 is that pulling the heads usually means destroying the threads in the block for the head bolts. Also the head bolts are discontinued. So heli-coiling the bolts holes on the block is REQUIRED... If you don't do that, good luck torquing down the heads and keeping them at that torque setting.
I think you are correct.... I never had a problem with the 4.9. I have driven them very hard for many years and once in a while at the local drag strip without any problems. .... I never have removed the heads on a 4.9
IP: Logged
12:14 PM
Capt Fiero Member
Posts: 7657 From: British Columbia, Canada Registered: Feb 2000
Is there an update, when I checked my email and saw so many replies I was desperately hoping for an update.
Its Wednesday, are we still on track for a Friday completion.
I went ahead and got my Yellow 88GT through Aircare yesterday, just in case you don't get the V8 done I wanted to be ready to leave.
------------------ 857GT Part 85GT Part 87GT Part Caddy, 93 Eldorado 4.9, 5spd Dual O2 Custom Chip, Custom Exhaust. MSD Everything Now with Nitrous. Capt Fiero --- My Over View Cadero Pics Yellow 88GT 5spd Full Poly Suspension, Lowered 1/2" in front, Corner Carver.
IP: Logged
12:38 PM
PFF
System Bot
Mickey_Moose Member
Posts: 7542 From: Edmonton, AB, Canada Registered: May 2001
The biggest problem with the 4.9 is that pulling the heads usually means destroying the threads in the block for the head bolts. Also the head bolts are discontinued. So heli-coiling the bolts holes on the block is REQUIRED... If you don't do that, good luck torquing down the heads and keeping them at that torque setting.
Hmmm - I have removed the heads from a few 4.9's without a problem (and reinstalled) - maybe it's our Canadian weather?
IP: Logged
03:10 PM
lou_dias Member
Posts: 5347 From: Warwick, RI Registered: Jun 2000
Originally posted by Mickey_Moose: Hmmm - I have removed the heads from a few 4.9's without a problem (and reinstalled) - maybe it's our Canadian weather?
I'm not saying it can't be done, I'm saying more often then not, the threads get ruined....and yes, I'm speaking from personal experience.
IP: Logged
03:28 PM
Capt Fiero Member
Posts: 7657 From: British Columbia, Canada Registered: Feb 2000
I'm not saying it can't be done, I'm saying more often then not, the threads get ruined....and yes, I'm speaking from personal experience.
Ok Mickey and Lou, maybe it has something to do with the procedure in removing the head bolts. I know with V6 Exhaust Manifolds and Caliper Bleeder screws if you try to use a ratchet and as gently as possible back out the bolts, you usually end up snapping them off, but if you are more violent and use a 1/2 drive impact gun set to low power, they always come out nice and easy.
How are you guys removing the head bolts?
------------------ 857GT Part 85GT Part 87GT Part Caddy, 93 Eldorado 4.9, 5spd Dual O2 Custom Chip, Custom Exhaust. MSD Everything Now with Nitrous. Capt Fiero --- My Over View Cadero Pics Yellow 88GT 5spd Full Poly Suspension, Lowered 1/2" in front, Corner Carver.
[This message has been edited by Capt Fiero (edited 01-23-2013).]
IP: Logged
03:55 PM
Will Member
Posts: 14249 From: Where you least expect me Registered: Jun 2000
Just picked this up for the car, so along with the new Ignition System I'll have a tach that I can trust to know what the revs are at. My wife saw it posted on one of her kids stuff swap pages. I guess some wife/mother found it and figured her husband didn't need it anymore. LOL. Picked it up for 40 bucks. I know its not top of the line, but it will be a nice addition to the car when I eventually get to start driving it again.
------------------ 857GT Part 85GT Part 87GT Part Caddy, 93 Eldorado 4.9, 5spd Dual O2 Custom Chip, Custom Exhaust. MSD Everything Now with Nitrous. Capt Fiero --- My Over View Cadero Pics Yellow 88GT 5spd Full Poly Suspension, Lowered 1/2" in front, Corner Carver.
IP: Logged
04:40 PM
IROCTAFIERO Member
Posts: 791 From: Montgomery, Al USA Registered: May 2005
I must applaud the Capt for his patience as three swaps later FOY is still trying. Still say that a 4.9L is NOT a good choice for a performance engine. They may survive a long time in stock configuration in a Cadillac, especially so where the average age of the driver is over 65 years of age. They will survive if you keep the revs below 4800 RPM but if you drive these old tired 17-22 year old engines hard, I doubt if they can or will last. It was designed as a high torque highway cruiser powerplant, for people that don't hit the pedal to the metal very often. If the Capt likes V8's the direction towards the SBC , LT or LS engines may be the answer. The aftermarket part selection is very abundent and you can build those engines to produce loads of horsepower.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Powerlog manifold, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Flotech Afterburner Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
IP: Logged
06:14 PM
Capt Fiero Member
Posts: 7657 From: British Columbia, Canada Registered: Feb 2000
I really want to see you get your car back in working order. Hopefully he is not updating because he is working hard on your car.
That's what I am hoping too.
------------------ 857GT Part 85GT Part 87GT Part Caddy, 93 Eldorado 4.9, 5spd Dual O2 Custom Chip, Custom Exhaust. MSD Everything Now with Nitrous. Capt Fiero --- My Over View Cadero Pics Yellow 88GT 5spd Full Poly Suspension, Lowered 1/2" in front, Corner Carver.
IP: Logged
08:28 PM
KurtAKX Member
Posts: 4008 From: West Bloomfield, MI Registered: Feb 2002
I'm going to try and hustle and get the motor in. I went in to get my patch off and my eye examined yesterday. I had to get my cornea scraped because of some scarring from the burn so I've been at home drugged up taking it easy. I wasn't about to attempt assembling your car all doped lol
You're welcome to call my cell any time Dave if you have questions or I'm dumb and don't post
It is something to note, I have never seen an offering of anysort of ported 4.5/4.9 heads. There isn't an aftermarket head for the 60 degree V6 either, but that doesnt stop people from attempting to extract more performance from it.The 4.9L is a very compact v8 engine, but it's inteded use limited the aftermarket from seeing and trying to overcome it's shortcomings like it has for other engines.
The engine is in a Countach replica currently under construction here in Co. PBJ beat that car like a" redhead step child" and it kept coming back for more cessful Cheers Beers n Gearz. Joe
Speaking of which, Joe, I need to change the head gaskets on that beast. I'm not sure how successful I would be on my own, any chance you would help me?
Hmmm - I have removed the heads from a few 4.9's without a problem (and reinstalled) - maybe it's our Canadian weather?
Is there some special way you do this? do you just remove the head bolts with a breaker bar?... toss in some new head gaskets and simply retorque the same head bolts? Do you use any kind of thread sealer and/or any other kind compound on the threads?
IP: Logged
01:50 AM
Capt Fiero Member
Posts: 7657 From: British Columbia, Canada Registered: Feb 2000
I'm going to try and hustle and get the motor in. I went in to get my patch off and my eye examined yesterday. I had to get my cornea scraped because of some scarring from the burn so I've been at home drugged up taking it easy. I wasn't about to attempt assembling your car all doped lol
You're welcome to call my cell any time Dave if you have questions or I'm dumb and don't post
So its Wednesday night right now, and you won't be starting till Thursday Morning? I don't see how you will have the car done and on the road by Friday then? Unless you already have the motor pulled and just need to put the 2nd motor in?
I understand and can accept Monday was a Holiday so you didn't work on the car, Tuesday, did you get the engine out?, and today you had a medical thing.
I'll drop you a line tomorrow so we can get some straight info on a timeline.
------------------ 857GT Part 85GT Part 87GT Part Caddy, 93 Eldorado 4.9, 5spd Dual O2 Custom Chip, Custom Exhaust. MSD Everything Now with Nitrous. Capt Fiero --- My Over View Cadero Pics Yellow 88GT 5spd Full Poly Suspension, Lowered 1/2" in front, Corner Carver.
IP: Logged
02:24 AM
Purple86GT Member
Posts: 1592 From: Ontario, Canada Registered: Mar 2012
FOY I know I said to put it aside for 2 weeks and if that much time is needed, then so be it. Its what I said and I'll stand by it. However if there is any chance you can take care of your other customers on here and have my car road worthy before the 1st of February, it would save me having to trailer the car here. The Temp insurance expires on the 1st. I can buy single day permits at about $35 per day, but would have to mail them down to you, and when I buy them I have to tell them the exact day they can be used, so there would be no room for anyone not being able to do what they say.
At this point I don't care what you do, or how you do it. Even a stock 4.9 and toss the mod parts in the trunk. If you can't pull it off for the 1st, fine, but please fine some way to get the car done. We have both put too much time and money into the car to simply give up.
quote
Originally posted by FriendOfYours:
It will be before the 1st, I had no intention of putting it off for two weeks even though you said to. I need this done and gone
quote
Originally posted by FriendOfYours:
I'm bringing the scissor out of storage and down to Roy which will help immensely with me working on my own, I should be able to have it all together in a day or two. Friday should be fine
quote
Originally posted by FriendOfYours:
MLK, federal holiday. Sorry, I'm just ragged at the moment and I'm taking my break.
I'll post every day this week with pictures
quote
Originally posted by FriendOfYours:
I'm going to try and hustle and get the motor in. I went in to get my patch off and my eye examined yesterday. I had to get my cornea scraped because of some scarring from the burn so I've been at home drugged up taking it easy. I wasn't about to attempt assembling your car all doped lol
You're welcome to call my cell any time Dave if you have questions or I'm dumb and don't post
Oh common?
Daily updates = Fail Get to work on it right away = Fail Ready for Friday = Unlikely Dropping the bomb on the customer the day before.. Priceless!
Injuries happen and that’s understandable. Not taking 2 minutes to give your customer a heads up as soon as you know there is a problem is NOT acceptable!
Same goes for my situation, obviously you didn’t take the time to ship my kit out as agreed. You even said it was all done and ready to go. Then no more updates… You aren’t even trying to clean up your reputation here.
If there is unforeseen circumstances (it happens) your priority would be to inform the client. Not just drop a bomb at the last minute. However, you have had lots of “unforeseen circumstances” and it’s turning into the boy who cried wolf.
Don’t screw Capt’ over, he is probably the last one who has faith in you at this point.
I wish I was closer. I would go pick it up and finish it for you. I am laid off right now and would love to have something to do. Please go get you car and have someone else finish it. I have delt with this guy in the past and it was not a good experience. He had more excuses than you can think of. I ordered the 3800 shift cable bracket for him and when I got it, it would not work the angle was way off. I do have to say he did keep his word and sent me 3 of them(they worked just fine) for all my troubles. It took forever lost in shipping, went to another forum member. I'd say he will pull though for you guys, but you never know when. He all so said that we(fiero community) are only a part of his business. Does he treat the rest of the business this way.
Thanks Lonnie
[This message has been edited by fierofan25 (edited 01-24-2013).]
IP: Logged
11:07 AM
PFF
System Bot
olejoedad Member
Posts: 19084 From: Clarendon Twp., MI Registered: May 2004
At the risk of starting a war I would suggest that the Captain and FOY close this thread and communicate by PM, phone, text or email.
There are too many peope here with no skin in the game that are dragging this thread and FOY through the mud.
Its really no ones business beyond the customer and the vendor (including me).
Let it rest until the customer gets the car back and can report on his level of satisfaction.
Until then its like a circle jerk in the 8th grade boys locker room.
If there's no reason to drag someone through the mud, then they wouldn't be dragged.
If anything, threads like this keep pressure on the vendors to stay honest. Far too many people get the runaround and would sit there quietly somehow justifying it to themselves that its how these businesses are probably run and don't want to ruffle feathers because the vendor has a lot of their money and their car to boot. With the herd jumping in on a thread like this, a bit of reality comes down from people with no skin in the game that have nothing to lose by saying they feel something isn't kosher.
I hadn't looked at the car after the cap blew and I tested the coolant. A piece of the cap had embedded itself in the radiator spout from when it exploded and wasn't letting the plunger on the cap decompress. The coolant tested postive because I never fully drained it from the last motor, why would I , it had no oil in it and was still the correct ratio. I took some emery cloth to the spout, put a new cap on and voila. No overheat, no screaming, and runs just like did before
So it wasn't the cam or intake, just two dud motors and a lot of horrible luck. Capt, call me and we'll figure out what's next
IP: Logged
10:08 PM
Raydar Member
Posts: 40910 From: Carrollton GA. Out in the... country. Registered: Oct 1999
Quick question... Is it possible that the damaged cap and the combustion gas "remnants" in the cooling system were caused by the previous engines, and that there is nothing wrong with this one? ...
quote
Originally posted by FriendOfYours:
I hadn't looked at the car after the cap blew and I tested the coolant. A piece of the cap had embedded itself in the radiator spout from when it exploded and wasn't letting the plunger on the cap decompress. The coolant tested postive because I never fully drained it from the last motor,
Sometimes I think I'm not as dumb as I think I am.
So... Did you pull the motor out for nothing?
[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 01-24-2013).]
I didn't see your post before, really wish I had. I was so busy thinking of the horrible problems it could be I just spaced on simple stuff. Frustration and pain will do that to you
IP: Logged
10:53 PM
Raydar Member
Posts: 40910 From: Carrollton GA. Out in the... country. Registered: Oct 1999
I spoke to FOY on the phone and fingers crossed, he is going to deliver the car here Saturday. I was supposed to take my 88 and head for Oregon Friday as our Family cars are off the road, so I was going to go solo. (GTP Blew up its trans and Blazer Failed Emissions) However an odd turn of events, FOY says he will bring my car up on Saturday, the Blazer goes in Saturday to a local shop for a new Cat and we have scheduled the GTP to go in and get a new trans installed next week. Man this is going to be an expensive next few days, all right before I take 6 weeks off to go and deal with estate stuff in Oregon.
O/T bit of good news for those following along with Lisa and I's attempted immigration to the USA, we found out exactly why we were denied and it was all because of paperwork that immigration never told us we needed. So we have filed with the BC government for the papers, and are going to re-submit everything, (another 650 bucks as well) to the US Immigration and then wait another 4 months and see what happens.
------------------ 857GT Part 85GT Part 87GT Part Caddy, 93 Eldorado 4.9, 5spd Dual O2 Custom Chip, Custom Exhaust. MSD Everything Now with Nitrous. Capt Fiero --- My Over View Cadero Pics Yellow 88GT 5spd Full Poly Suspension, Lowered 1/2" in front, Corner Carver.
and it kept coming back for more
too many projects, not nearly enough time.
