quote Originally posted by Will: Is the valve/port size info *NOT* correct?

Yes. Only because he said it is something you can't get around

There is plenty of material that be removed from the ports to supply air to larger valves. We have not seen a 4.9 that has been properly modified and tuned. We won't be going all out on Capt's but we will with our 4.9 Civic

quote Originally posted by FriendOfYours: Yes. Only because he said it is something you can't get around There is plenty of material that be removed from the ports to supply air to larger valves. We have not seen a 4.9 that has been properly modified and tuned. We won't be going all out on Capt's but we will with our 4.9 Civic

I'm curious about how far the heads can be taken.
It's not just the heads, but the manifold and runners as well. The 6% runner area increase you mentioned could be significant if the intake runner area is the bottleneck...

This is Rick Stewart's build, and IIRC, he had head work done as well.
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...110502-2-061613.html

As I've mentioned before, we've already flow tested the intake. Without giving too high a number and being overly optimistic, the manifold in our modified form should be capable up to 400 NA. No way am I claiming this motor will do that but the intake could support it

As long as you're flowing at 28 inches of water, I don't see why posting CFM numbers would be damning. It's not like the 4.9 has a screaming market loaded with competition.

quote Originally posted by Capt Fiero: Dennis you and I have always been on good standing and I respect all your turbo stuff, so ya know what, I might just toss a small Turbo on this motor if it does not make enough power. PBJ proved that its solid for 12 second passes with a tiny undersized turbo, reliably. I figure this setup with a 5spd should give me 13 second times with decent gas mileage and a really reliable motor. With the great low rpm power of the 4.9 it will give me that kick in the pants feel any time I wish.

Don't forget PBJ/Rockcrawl installed large valves on that motor as well.

In any event, still like to see if you are able to accomplish something that didn't work out all that well for me.

quote Originally posted by Mickey_Moose: Don't forget PBJ/Rockcrawl installed large valves on that motor as well.

If the port taper and throat size aren't right, then larger valves won't make any more power...

The4.9 will only make power gains if you goforced inductio you will have exhaust flow problems.Even if you cut out the intake like you did or you run massive boost there is still a bottleneck in the exhaust and plug foulin problems enjoy it for what it is.

[This message has been edited by Boogaloo (edited 10-10-2012).]

There is a really neat article in Engine Masters Magazine where they took a 293ci SBC with 1.72 intake and 1.5 exhaust valves, and a cam that only has .399 valve lift but a 258/260 @.050 duration cam, and made a whopping 372hp with it. It was a "street eliminator motor" so they had to retain stock low flow heads and small valves. The guy said in order to make power its all about port velocity and intake volume. Its really a neat read. Its the Fall 2012 Volume 15 No 3 issue. Page 30.

I don't expect the motor to make crazy power, but a nice boost above stock will make me really happy. To be honest I was pretty happy with a strong stock motor. So any improvement even if the peak HP numbers don't move too much, just the power band is moved higher in the rpm range will make me happy.

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857GT Part 85GT Part 87GT Part Caddy, 93 Eldorado 4.9, 5spd Dual O2 Custom Chip, Custom Exhaust. MSD Everything Now with Nitrous. Capt Fiero --- My Over View Cadero Pics Yellow 88GT 5spd Full Poly Suspension, Lowered 1/2" in front, Corner Carver.

quote Originally posted by Capt Fiero: So any improvement even if the peak HP numbers don't move too much, just the power band is moved higher in the rpm range will make me happy.

Sounds like you just want a Northstar

Hmmm, sounds alot like what I've been saying lol

We are going with .480 with 213 duration @ .050

We can't get much duration without welding the cam or getting a new one out of billet, both of which are expensive

quote Originally posted by lou_dias: That's the first time I heard that... The shorter stroke helped it rev higher, but revving higher doesn't get you the same HP as a motor with more displacement if you aren't breathing better... If anything, I would start with the Allante base intake and make shorter runners from there...IMHO Those runners were long but they eliminated all sharp turns and hence allowed good flow.

I agree here with this comment. Robert Cope's 4.9L modded engine has an allante intake, LT1 throttlebody, larger intake valves, N* pistons, LS1 springs, roller rockers, a .500 lift delta cam, and an optisparc setup converted to fit on the 4.9L distributor plate with Coil Packs, AND running a '95 LT1 computer,

Robert's highly modded 4.9L w/Optisparc

.....and it PULLS hard all the way to 6800 rpm, absolutely no breathing problems. I rode in it with him at Moroso speedway in west palm. The Allante intake is NOT the limiting factor.

[This message has been edited by stickpony (edited 10-10-2012).]

Only reason we aren't is because that would require longer pushrods and valve guide machining

We are building a very "special" motor for our own use

Oh, and I wasn't saying the Allante intake was poor or couldn't allow high rpm. This is just a much easier way to get the same results. They are hard to find and this provides options for everyone with a 4.9l

quote Originally posted by stickpony: I agree here with this comment. Robert Cope's 4.9L modded engine has an allante intake, LT1 throttlebody, larger intake valves, N* pistons, LS1 springs, roller rockers, a .500 lift delta cam, and an optisparc setup converted to fit on the 4.9L distributor plate with Coil Packs, AND running a '95 LT1 computer, Robert's highly modded 4.9L w/Optisparc .....and it PULLS hard all the way to 6800 rpm, absolutely no breathing problems. I rode in it with him at Moroso speedway in west palm. The Allante intake is NOT the limiting factor.

quote Originally posted by stickpony: Rick didn't even remotely tune his setup. he was running it on the stock chip...he left 40 HP and probably 40+ lb/ft on the table

It's all bench racing without dyno results.

FriendOfYours,

Since you are going all out, I would surely love to see you make a dyno pull with the cam retarded....6* or so, just to see if it moved the power up the rpm range. This worked REALLY well in gen 1 SBC's using an old device called a Vari-Cam. See: https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/120443.html for a brief thread on this topic.

Larry

Making progress. I'll snag some pics tmrw. The majority has been dismantled and the intake is complete

Had a couple that I forgot. Shaved the intake





Congratulations to David on his beautiful new baby girl! She is gorgeous brother

Thank You. I am currently looking at those pics from our Hospital room. Lisa and Erica are both sleeping soundly while Dad is up pacing around. With any luck we will be out of here tomorrow, assuming Erica passes all the premie tests.

Now back to car stuff, that intake now that its ground looks a massive amount better. I can't wait to see it in powder coat. Is there any way to paint or write Fiero GT V8 on there then power coat it and then remove the paint (I am assuming powder coat won't stick to paint during the baking process) I'd love for it to have red with silver lettering. If thats not really cost effective or easy, I do have a friend with a CNC that I am sure could lightly skim off the powder coat and engrave it with the Fiero Logo. Albeit time consuming (but easier than removing it for CNC work) with stencils and a dremel I might be able to pull it off by hand on the car.

I can't wait to see this car come back together. You fired up and drove the car so you know it was a runner and driver before with the current 4.9 just not reliable due to the overheating problem and I hated driving it with the questionable mounts. I am sure it will be a ton more fun with the mounting setup you mentioned on the phone.

Again very cool. Now I think I am going to try and get a couple hours sleep before little miss jr wakes up. I forgot how bad this every 2-3 hour thing was. Ugh.

I got a very good idea what I'll be dreaming about when I snooze. Vroom Vroom Screeeeeeeeech, smell sniiiiiifffff Burt Rubber, gotta love that smell. Granted Burnt Rubber with a hint of VHT is better. Ya know the smell of Burt Rubber and VHT should be bottled as a car scent. Scratch off "New car Scent" and call it, "Hot Rod Car Scent" Bet even as a novelty gift, every hotrod owner in America would buy or be given at least one.

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857GT Part 85GT Part 87GT Part Caddy, 93 Eldorado 4.9, 5spd Dual O2 Custom Chip, Custom Exhaust. MSD Everything Now with Nitrous. Capt Fiero --- My Over View Cadero Pics Yellow 88GT 5spd Full Poly Suspension, Lowered 1/2" in front, Corner Carver.

Your avatar is very fitting, dont ya think? I look forward to the progress on your 4.9! Congratulations on the addition to your family!

[This message has been edited by BV MotorSports (edited 10-19-2012).]

quote Originally posted by BV MotorSports: Your avatar is very fitting, dont ya think? I look forward to the progress on your 4.9! Congratulations on the addition to your family!

LOL, I chose that Avatar just over 3 years ago, when I found out about our first daughter. Its just kinda stuck around.

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857GT Part 85GT Part 87GT Part Caddy, 93 Eldorado 4.9, 5spd Dual O2 Custom Chip, Custom Exhaust. MSD Everything Now with Nitrous. Capt Fiero --- My Over View Cadero Pics Yellow 88GT 5spd Full Poly Suspension, Lowered 1/2" in front, Corner Carver.

quote Originally posted by FriendOfYours: Making progress. I'll snag some pics tmrw. The majority has been dismantled and the intake is complete Had a couple that I forgot. Shaved the intake Congratulations to David on his beautiful new baby girl! She is gorgeous brother

very nice... reminds me of a an oldschool blower

Any Updates, Pics of the car torn apart, would love to see the progress of the car.

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857GT Part 85GT Part 87GT Part Caddy, 93 Eldorado 4.9, 5spd Dual O2 Custom Chip, Custom Exhaust. MSD Everything Now with Nitrous. Capt Fiero --- My Over View Cadero Pics Yellow 88GT 5spd Full Poly Suspension, Lowered 1/2" in front, Corner Carver.

quote Originally posted by BV MotorSports: Is that a side exit exhaust? If so, details?

Yes! do tell! if that is functional I WANT!

Searched as I may, I could not find any of the initial install pics when the muffler was nice and clean, I did find several photo's that I snapped during swaps and things so here they are. I'll post up a proper sound clip later when I find that. Found a sound clip video its huge at 24mb but its me trying to do a brake stand in the 4.9, unfortunately the rear tires are wider and way more sticky than the fronts, http://captfiero.com/videos...ierobrakestand49.wmv

After about a year on the car, I took it to a custom exhaust shop and had a "dog leg" placed in the exhaust pipe near the tip for better routing under the cradle and then up to the side skirt.

Car Lo was the one that helped with the cutting of the side skirt.

Ok here are the pics from several different forum threads.


Only pic I can find of the muffler



















John taped off all the edges and made sure all the cuts were straight.









John pointed out that there was a clamp that was going to be in our way and needed to be trimmed. I looked in there and went, well hmm. The clamp is

there for decoration. The pipe has been welded.



So out came the zip disk.


No more clamp. Let's get rid of a tiny bit of rust.


Mounted and perfect.



Well that was until a little bad habit of mine came back. I went grabbed some sand paper, grabbed a dry rag, did a quick sand, then a quick shot of

white primer. I had to see what it would look like. I think I like it. I think I like it a lot.









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857GT Part 85GT Part 87GT Part Caddy, 93 Eldorado 4.9, 5spd Dual O2 Custom Chip, Custom Exhaust. MSD Everything Now with Nitrous. Capt Fiero --- My Over View Cadero Pics Yellow 88GT 5spd Full Poly Suspension, Lowered 1/2" in front, Corner Carver.

[This message has been edited by Capt Fiero (edited 10-31-2012).]

Awesome! Thanks for the pics. I have been scratching my head trying to figure out what to do about my exhaust problem on the 88. I could remove the exhaust cutout and rear section and just run your very simple system. SWEET! I hope 3" will clear. Heck, I even have some of those LT1 f-body tips in the shed.

Edit, + to you for sharing.

[This message has been edited by BV MotorSports (edited 10-31-2012).]

Getting my bags packed, laptop packed, and all the related customs documents ready. Leaving first thing in the morning for FOY to see the dyno test, and hopefully to drive the car out of their. Only I am not heading home with it, I have mapped out my travel route and its roughly 665 miles round trip. Pick up the car just south of Seattle, head to Aurora just south of Portland, spend a day or so running around Aurora and Portland in my V8 Fiero. Then leaving to go back to FOY to pick up a friend that is dropping his car off at FOY and driving that friend back to Bellingham, dropping him off and finally making it back to BC on Saturday or Sunday. I am putting huge trust in FOY by making such a long loop road trip with a car fresh out of the shop. With all the chat I have had with FOY on the phone he has given me the confidence to believe this car can handle it. I am so freaking excited to see the dyno run and to be back behind the wheel of my 4.9 Fiero. Don't get me wrong I love my 88GT, but it just does not hold a candle to the fun of a 4.9 V8 5spd Fiero. With the new custom intake, cam and the engine being able to rev it will just make it that much more fun.

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857GT Part 85GT Part 87GT Part Caddy, 93 Eldorado 4.9, 5spd Dual O2 Custom Chip, Custom Exhaust. MSD Everything Now with Nitrous. Capt Fiero --- My Over View Cadero Pics Yellow 88GT 5spd Full Poly Suspension, Lowered 1/2" in front, Corner Carver.

Congrats and good luck!
Too bad you don't have some more time to drive down the PCH. We were out there a few years ago, and drove down the entire coast of Oregon, and then inland to Crater lake. My only regret was that we were in a Dodge rent-a-sled, and not my Fiero.

Do share some info about the car when you can. Inquiring minds want to know...

I grew up on the PCH, Made the run between Lincoln City and Seaside more times than I can count and my wife and I have gone to the Oregon coast at least once a year for the last 15 years. Highway 101 was practically built for Fiero's. Amazing scenery, Twisty Mountain Roads Sheer Drop Offs into the Pacific Ocean if you get too crazy and a few select places where you can actually drive your car onto the beach. Believe it or not, Fiero's don't do to bad in the beach sand. Granted I had 225s and 245's on the car at the time so it spread the weight out a bit.

Oh Don't worry about me letting the group know about how the engine and car does. If its Great, I'll be on here Screaming on here from the top of my lungs, err Keyboard, about how great it is. If the car breaks down, I'll be here crying about how frustrated I'll be, because I won't have any tools with me and will be alone on the run. As I mentioned earlier a friend is giving me a ride down to get the car, so I am not bringing my normal tool chest. I'll have my cell phone a couple changes of clothes and my laptop. (Data roaming international is rather expensive so I won't be posting or emailing unless I have Wifi or its an emergency) I am brining 2 cell phone batteries though, just in case.

Oh Man I can't wait to see her running again.

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857GT Part 85GT Part 87GT Part Caddy, 93 Eldorado 4.9, 5spd Dual O2 Custom Chip, Custom Exhaust. MSD Everything Now with Nitrous. Capt Fiero --- My Over View Cadero Pics Yellow 88GT 5spd Full Poly Suspension, Lowered 1/2" in front, Corner Carver.

I won't go into details here as its not my place to say. However there was a medical emergency at FOY and they are unable to take the car to the dyno today. They said its done and ready and I could come pick it up, or they can re-schedule the dyno for Monday. Oh this is frustrating. I had the car packed, overnight bag, laptop, Radar Detector, TomTom with all my locations preset, Passport, even bought a $20 Daypass for Roaming Data on my cell phone so I could get email while on the road. I paid the $393 for 90 days full coverage insurance on the car. We were just minutes from heading through Customs into the US.

I told him on the phone although I was really looking forward to this, his family is more important and the car and dyno can wait.

So we are tentatively scheduled for Monday. I'll keep my fingers crossed and see what happens.

David

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857GT Part 85GT Part 87GT Part Caddy, 93 Eldorado 4.9, 5spd Dual O2 Custom Chip, Custom Exhaust. MSD Everything Now with Nitrous. Capt Fiero --- My Over View Cadero Pics Yellow 88GT 5spd Full Poly Suspension, Lowered 1/2" in front, Corner Carver.

I hope whatever the medical issue is- that everything will be alright at FOY! Sorry to hear about you having to reschedule.

quote Originally posted by nitroheadz28: I hope whatever the medical issue is- that everything will be alright at FOY! Sorry to hear about you having to reschedule.

Indeed. After reading about the trauma that FOY's lady had to deal with, I hope everything's okay.

Still looking forward to hearing about your ride when it's done.

I apologize for delaying, I know there are people who are very anxious to see the results. We should be back home in the morning

I had Brian send me a couple photos from this last week

Before



New motor under intake



Pulled cam



New cam


Together


This is the only near complete pic I've got

[This message has been edited by FriendOfYours (edited 11-04-2012).]

I'm interested in an intake like that for us who don't have any Allante parts, but want more flow/power out of it. Building a "plenum" while using a bigger TB and cutting out the top inlet of the stock intake sounds like a good idea, I'm looking forward to seeing how this performs.

EDIT: Isn't it possible to flip the fuel rail around so the feed and return lines are pointing toward the front of the car and not the back, assuming EGR delete and no alternator on top?

[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 11-04-2012).]

Even just a good porting job makes a notice you can feel. You can double the throat area of the ports in the intake, there is that much material to remove. I was an idiot and didn't get a total shot after media blasting the intake, but it is significant.

Pre


Post

You can flip the rail around but you will need to move the bolt downs and we kept the alternator on top incase he wants to add A/C. It is an A/C

Just wondering, do you guys offer porting for the 4.9 intake?

We offer everything

Well it's my turn to delay things. The doc says hopefully just 2 more days and I can leave the the hospital.

quote Originally posted by Capt Fiero: Well it's my turn to delay things. The doc says hopefully just 2 more days and I can leave the the hospital.

WTH?!

Hope everything's okay.

With y'all too, FOY.

will send a pm to you. But short version for those that want to know, right lung quit, and 1/2 of left lung capacity. Very sudden.

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857GT Part 85GT Part 87GT Part Caddy, 93 Eldorado 4.9, 5spd Dual O2 Custom Chip, Custom Exhaust. MSD Everything Now with Nitrous. Capt Fiero --- My Over View Cadero Pics Yellow 88GT 5spd Full Poly Suspension, Lowered 1/2" in front, Corner Carver.