You really need Northstar pistons

I strongly suggest a built engine, especially if you want to use N2O.
You don't necessarily have to have FOY build the engine... just keep the idea in mind.

The sources David has spoken to said the 4.9 is very stout and should be capable of sustaining much more power than we are making. We've done many stock 4.9 swaps but this is the first we've opened up and really beat on

I have some grrreat pictures. Headed home right now and I'll put them up. I finally got this motor back out and pulled the heads off, this motor was already helicoiled. They DID NOT use the correct kit, using only the 5/8" long inserts. The upper half of the threaded hole on the number 1 headbolt separated from the bottom, right where the helicoiled stopped. I am picking up a running and driving '94 Deville in the morning with 86k miles on it. I don't know where our local guy is getting these motors, but I'm not going to be buying from them again.

[This message has been edited by FriendOfYours (edited 12-14-2012).]

One Word "YAY"

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857GT Part 85GT Part 87GT Part Caddy, 93 Eldorado 4.9, 5spd Dual O2 Custom Chip, Custom Exhaust. MSD Everything Now with Nitrous. Capt Fiero --- My Over View Cadero Pics Yellow 88GT 5spd Full Poly Suspension, Lowered 1/2" in front, Corner Carver.

Where are these pics?

quote Originally posted by FriendOfYours: I finally got this motor back out and pulled the heads off, this motor was already helicoiled. They DID NOT use the correct kit, using only the 5/8" long inserts. The upper half of the threaded hole on the number 1 headbolt separated from the bottom, right where the helicoiled stopped.

Interesting.
Now you have a spare block to build...

Update, Haven't heard from you in a couple days.

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857GT Part 85GT Part 87GT Part Caddy, 93 Eldorado 4.9, 5spd Dual O2 Custom Chip, Custom Exhaust. MSD Everything Now with Nitrous. Capt Fiero --- My Over View Cadero Pics Yellow 88GT 5spd Full Poly Suspension, Lowered 1/2" in front, Corner Carver.

quote Originally posted by Patrick: Dave (and/or FOY), I'm just making a wild suggestion here, in case it might be worthwhile... Steve Simpson (fourpoint9) of Jet City Fieros down in Washington State has a friend (Larry) who had a 4.9 Fiero which was rebuilt using (more easily accessible) oversize "standard" head bolts. The block was drilled and heli-coil inserts* were used. It seemed to work. Steve or his friend might have some info regarding this if somehow it might prove to be beneficial. * After reading Will's post below, I should mention that I have no idea if it was heli-coil inserts which were used or "solid" inserts.

Sorry to hear this project is not going well. I can feel for customer and shop. Sometimes things just do not go right. Hang in there. I'm sure FOY will get it right. Third time's the charm.

If you would like to contact the guy who did the work on Larry's 4.9 I can get his number if you IM me. He bought Larry's car. I live up north a little bit from the shop and wouldn't mind stopping by FOY's shop when he gets the patient able to see visitors.

-Steve
My 4.9 Fiero Cardomain site

Sorry for the delay, rest assured we are plugging away. Got the motor out of the car after a very long test drive and is going in tomorrow morning. Was a shame to pull apart such a nice car, only one owner



They didn't blow out the holes after threading them. Instead they decided to chop off the end of the headbolt so it wouldn't bottom out...



Edit to add that 1,3,4,5,6 and 1 on the other side all had short helicoils. Just so anyone ever needs to do a headgasket, make sure you get the long depth kit specifically for this. You have to order the 1.5" 12x1.75 helicoils

[This message has been edited by FriendOfYours (edited 12-13-2012).]

quote Originally posted by FriendOfYours: They didn't blow out the holes after threading them. Instead they decided to chop off the end of the headbolt so it wouldn't bottom out... Edit to add that 1,3,4,5,6 and 1 on the other side all had short helicoils.

Wow, ya gotta wonder what kind of a "mechanic" does crap like that. Doesn't take a genius to realize that there's going to be far too much stress on a limited number of threads in an aluminum block.

quote Originally posted by FriendOfYours: They didn't blow out the holes after threading them. Instead they decided to chop off the end of the headbolt so it wouldn't bottom out... Edit to add that 1,3,4,5,6 and 1 on the other side all had short helicoils. Just so anyone ever needs to do a headgasket, make sure you get the long depth kit specifically for this. You have to order the 1.5" 12x1.75 helicoils

Wow, no excuse for that kind of work. I cant believe the lengths people go to do things the wrong way.

I'm sure everything will be back on track in no time.

quote Originally posted by FriendOfYours: Sorry for the delay, rest assured we are plugging away. Got the motor out of the car after a very long test drive and is going in tomorrow morning. Was a shame to pull apart such a nice car, only one owner http://i1249.photobucket.co..._20121212_225946.jpg They didn't blow out the holes after threading them. Instead they decided to chop off the end of the headbolt so it wouldn't bottom out... http://i1249.photobucket.co..._20121212_230018.jpg Edit to add that 1,3,4,5,6 and 1 on the other side all had short helicoils. Just so anyone ever needs to do a headgasket, make sure you get the long depth kit specifically for this. You have to order the 1.5" 12x1.75 helicoils

Amazing.

Like I said, now you have a block to build ;-)
Just use the big serts designed for a 2nd repair

I'd have to weld up the crack in the block that the helicoil made. I'm not too sure I want that failing on me and potentially eating whatever parts I put in the motor

Just to ease my nerves and I don't think this is too much to ask, could you please post a recent photo of my car with the engine pulled out and a pic of the caddy that you are pulling the engine from preferably with the 2 cars in the same pic if possible. I just really want to see with my own eyes that this is progressing. I am not trying to be a jerk but with so many setbacks and delays it would really ease my concerns about putting this car back together. I have been asking for build photo's constantly and yes you have posted several close up shots of engines with problems but nothing showing the greater project.

One last thing if I have not already upset you enough, I am really worried about the motor mounts I really wanted poly mounts in there but you keep saying that rubber engine / trans mounts will be more than strong enough. However I have tried rubber mounts before and tore them up, hell I tore up the first set of poly mounts, then added the solid upper mount and you saw the end result of the second set of poly mounts that were destroyed. When you have my engine off the cradle again, is there any way you could beef up the mount, I don't care if it is just a piece of steel bent in a U shape around the mount, anything to keep it from ripping itself apart when I drop the clutch with that 6 puck clutch, then do near redline down shifts so hard that I am barking the tires. I plan to install my trailer hitch on that car which means I'll be adding an extra 1000+ pounds of weight that the motor will be pulling and decelerating.

That's an interesting side note, most people don't realize that when you are towing a trailer, not only does your engine have to work hard to move the trailer, your motor mounts are also being taxed more when you go from On to Off Throttle. With all the torque that this combo should make, its going to make towing a trailer so easy I might get carried away with it. (seeing as though I'll take a 2.8 Fiero with a trailer to 120mph, I wonder what I can do with a 4.9 Fiero towing a trailer, LOL) Damn I hope my wife does not read this, or I am going to get hit.

Well good luck with the tear down and re-assembly. I really wish I had time to find calipers and give you my adapters so instead of putting my Grand Am rear brakes on, you could be tossing on the Cadillac Brakes. LOL, seeing as though you have taken those brakes on and off 3 times now, at least I know there won't be any stuck parts. I bought the rear adapter plates a couple years ago, and just never got around to getting to a wrecker to find good used calipers from a Caddy. Hey Wait, You are ripping a Caddy apart...... I wonder if that has the calipers I need? If it does I'd be more than happy to toss you an extra 40-50 bucks if you could toss them in the trunk for me. That way all I'd need to do is get me some Lebaron Rotors and Caddy Pads and way I go.

P.S. you said you had video of at least one of the dyno trials? I never saw that on my FTP could you upload it please. I know it was a failed attempt, but I'd still like to see it.

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857GT Part 85GT Part 87GT Part Caddy, 93 Eldorado 4.9, 5spd Dual O2 Custom Chip, Custom Exhaust. MSD Everything Now with Nitrous. Capt Fiero --- My Over View Cadero Pics Yellow 88GT 5spd Full Poly Suspension, Lowered 1/2" in front, Corner Carver.

quote Originally posted by Capt Fiero: FieroMaster88, PBJ, Myself and I am sure many others are running these motors past 6000rpms on the 1-2 shift, with the Delta Cam and Allante Intake they still make power to over 5000 and shifting at 6000 keeps you right in the center of the power curve on the 2-3 and 3-4 shift. I can't think of his name but the Moose Fella in Alberta I'll bet has had his motor on the high side of 6000 at least a few times. I know we don't like to talk about MTA on here, but he is another one that has been there, and Ryan from the Fiero Racing List that built the very first Cadero can also attest to this. He raced a 4.9 Fiero on the track for more seasons than I can count.

Yes, I have had mine on the high side of 6000 a couple of times, and 30% of the time I broke something (always engine related, never transmission or anything else), so I just stopped doing it. Didn't really see the need since the power dropped off big time after 5000, so my shifts were kept to around the 5-5500 mark. I had also posted better times at the track shifting in the 5000 range as well.

Sucks that you are having problems - but I still stand by my original post in this thread that the 4.9 is not really worth the time/money/effort as I have been there and gave up before sinking more money into it.

[This message has been edited by Mickey_Moose (edited 12-13-2012).]

I had to put in 3 4.9's before I finally got one to run right. I had a warped Allante intake allowing coolant to seep into the valley and over the cam. This was putting pressure on my coolant. Took a while to figure that out. Swapped a junkyard motor and it knocked right away. Figured out the intake issue and put the 3rd motor in and all is fine. Learned the hard way about the discontinued head bolts and pulled threads rebuilding the 2nd motor then found out it would cost $2000 to have a place set up for the helicoiling. Motors used motors are $500, why rebuild?

Next time the 4.9 fails, I go to a 3900 or something sensible like that. So I understand about **** happening. Honestly, the motor has a poor rod length:stroke ratio. It wasn't meant to be revved past 5200...unless destroked back to a 4.5 crank and pistons... Also, you need serious valve train work to even support it...

The Northstar and 3.1/3X00 motors have it just about perfect at 1.722:1 (ideal is 1.75) with a 5.7" connecting rod and 3.31" stroke. The Honda S2000 has it at 2.0:1 hence it revs forever.

I can't really put them side by side since both cars have no engine in them and one is outside, but here are pictures. I thought I was posting progress and detail to what was going on, not proof that it's happening

[This message has been edited by FriendOfYours (edited 12-13-2012).]

It wasn't meant to sound like that, it wasn't proof so much as piece of mind to ease that tiny little bit of nagging doubt in the back of my mind. I read it and believed it was happening, but its just until you see it its hard to visualize it and really believe that this is finally coming together. There have been so many problems with this build I think both of us (myself included) need to be as understanding as possible.

quote Originally posted by Capt Fiero: It wasn't meant to sound like that, it wasn't proof so much as piece of mind to ease that tiny little bit of nagging doubt in the back of my mind. I read it and believed it was happening, but its just until you see it its hard to visualize it and really believe that this is finally coming together. There have been so many problems with this build I think both of us (myself included) need to be as understanding as possible.

No, I understand, I wasn't giving you a hard time. I just didn't think about it sounding like a bit of bs and that I should be putting other pictures up

The only thing on my mind at the moment really is how much this has cost me in wages and parts... lol sucks

As I've stated before, IMO it will be difficult to build a performance engine from the 4.9L . This engine has a reputation for being unreliable in stock trim and you are facing an uphill battle to modify it. What usually happens is the threads in the block that anchor the headbolts corrode. The head then lifts away from the block. Cost to repair properly is more than the engine is worth. This can happen anywhere from 80K on but some sound stock engines have lasted 150K miles
I am really cheering for you Dave. FOY seems determined to keep going and I hope that he succeeds. If he had a SBC to work with I would be certain of success but with a 4.9L without an engine shop rebuild, I still have serious doubts. Hope that you prove me wrong.

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" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Powerlog manifold, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Flotech Afterburner Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

quote Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: As I've stated before, IMO it will be difficult to build a performance engine from the 4.9L . This engine has a reputation for being unreliable in stock trim and you are facing an uphill battle to modify it. What usually happens is the threads in the block that anchor the head bolts corrode. The head then lifts away from the block. Cost to repair properly is more than the engine is worth. This can happen anywhere from 80K on but some sound stock engines have lasted 150K miles I am really cheering for you Dave. FOY seems determined to keep going and I hope that he succeeds. If he had a SBC to work with I would be certain of success but with a 4.9L without an engine shop rebuild, I still have serious doubts. Hope that you prove me wrong.

Yes Dennis we have heard you say this many a time, however the reliability of this engine has not been that bad, with the exception of this swap, there are not too many people posting with blown up 4.9s unless they are either high mileage to begin with or beaten to hell. I beat the tar out of my 4.9 reved so high that I cracked a rocker support, spent the 30 bucks on a replacement and beat the hell out of it some more. It wasn't till I overheated it and ran the nitrous through it that I started to get problems. As to the cost to repair vs replace, you are dead on with that one. I looked into rebuild vs replace and it was far cheaper to simply get a new motor as these are disposable engines. Eventually the supply of good low mileage 4.9's will run out and all the 4.9 guys will have to either start ponying up big bucks or find another comparable swap like the 3800 S/C even though I know many 4.9 owners would rather destroy their car than install a 3.8 S/C. It may be our only reasonably cheap option. Who knows maybe the newer LSX motors will be cheap enough and easy enough to install and we can start doing that. Whatever swap I do after the 4.9 it will have to be aluminum heads and fuel injected with 8 cylinders. I have a total of $8000 into this swap, including the initial swap, $3000 and the parts and upgrades over the last few years and what I am paying / trading to FOY. Which is about the cost of a SBC swap. However this 4.9 has put a smile on my face more times that I can count and put a frown on many Import and Mustang owners over the years, which put an even bigger smile on my face. Even if I get it back from FOY and I manage to blow it up in 6 months, I will still have gotten my money's worth from it. LOL, I do have a Zumalt kit kicking around, maybe I'll sell off that kit and buy a real Archie kit and shop around for a late model Chevy V8. I just watched HP TV today, (ya the one with the Fiero clip in it) They made a 750hp reliable pump gas, Naturally Aspirated V8 that would spin to 8000rpms and I think would be an awesome Fiero motor. Even ran on E85 to boot.

However for now, I love my 4.9 5spd, and will drive her, pound her, and ride her till she screams with...... Well you get the picture, like I said earlier, its like explaining an orgasm to a virgin.

P.S FOY How are we cumming? (yes that misspelling was intended.)

P.P.S. Hey don't look at me like that, my wife just had a baby and I haven't had my supply of nookie for a while.

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857GT Part 85GT Part 87GT Part Caddy, 93 Eldorado 4.9, 5spd Dual O2 Custom Chip, Custom Exhaust. MSD Everything Now with Nitrous. Capt Fiero --- My Over View Cadero Pics Yellow 88GT 5spd Full Poly Suspension, Lowered 1/2" in front, Corner Carver.

quote Originally posted by FriendOfYours: I'd have to weld up the crack in the block that the helicoil made. I'm not too sure I want that failing on me and potentially eating whatever parts I put in the motor

I didn't realize the block itself was cracked... don't waste time welding it.

quote Originally posted by Will: There isn't an "ideal" rod ratio... engines can run hard with any rod ratio as long as they're built well and the cam is spec'd correctly. It just depends on the application and requirements. The 4.5 crank and '90 4.5 PFI conrods would be a good combo. The decrease in displacement would give more usable RPM, even though the heads will still be the limiting factor in developing power. If you want to build and abuse a Northstar, doing the head bolt inserts is REQUIRED for reliability. It sounds like the 4.9 is the same way. FYI, the Northstar uses 5.943" conrods. I have a parts combo in my head for SBC with 2.128 rod ratio...

Well, the term 'ideal' changes with the person building the motor.
It is accepted that 1.75 ratio offers the 'perfect' ratio of broad torque and high revving (to 6000rpm). Per your added details, since the Northstar rods are even longer than I recalled, that puts it closer to 1.8 and that is why it happily revs past 6000rpm. This is of course referring to NA motors since many times, forced induction is used to overcome traditional innate physical limitations.

GM designed the 4.9 to make torque/hp to about 4500 rpm. You see it in the rod length:stroke ratio and you see it in the weak valve train and the modest cam.
A testament to this is my own 3.4 roller cam block w/Fiero heads engine. I make more horse power and almost as much torque (187/249) as my 4.9 with Allante intake (172/265). It's also quite rebuildable, unlike the 4.9 ... I'm not saying the 4.9 isn't rebuildable, I'm saying you really have to excersize care and precision when doing so and it always require extraneous methods to do so.

I should add that when you MATCH an engine properly (pick a desired power curve and figure out the rod/stroke ratio, match heads designed to flow ideally at that peak, pick a cam designed to make power at that peak and a proper intake, those are the motors that perform well by the numbers...

[This message has been edited by lou_dias (edited 12-17-2012).]

Go read at www.speedtalk.com and some of the articles by Reher-Morrison. The "ideal" connecting rod length is the distance from the crank pin to the piston pin. Forget 1.75... that's a myth brought about by the success of the 327... which is a sweet heart engine for many other reasons.

There are examples of both "short rod" and "long rod" engines that perform well in a wide variety of applications and RPM ranges, as long as the rest of the combo works well together.

Don't forget that built 4.9's have gone to 230ish RWHP and significantly more torque.

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 12-17-2012).]

quote Originally posted by Will: Don't forget that built 4.9's have gone to 230ish RWHP and significantly more torque.

With enough machine work/modifcations, the right parts and enough work it certainly has been proven possible. Again lets reference Rick Stewarts built 4.9L that had this dyno number. IIRC he had a Delta Cam, Northstar Pistons, extensive head work, intake porting, balancing, Allante Intake and the whole nine yards. In follow up discussions about the build 5 or 6 years back; big bucks were spent and the horsepower per dollar and the mileage (17mpg) did not meet expectations. He sold the car just months after it was finished.
The point is not to discourage this build but to put things into perspective relative to cost vs horsepower. The question is how much money and time are needed to acheive the desired result and whether or not the 4.9L is the right engine choice to do this with. You decide!

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" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Powerlog manifold, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Flotech Afterburner Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

yes, the allante intake on a good running engine properly tuned should put down 200rwhp. increasing the compression ration also ups the power band
you forget that some full 3400 motors are putting out >240rwhp....

as for the 'rod to stroke length 'Myth', I'll stick with it until I see examples disproving it...vs. actual examples proving it

Lou: I've heard of 3400's over 270 WHP... Definitely possible. I think an all-motor build of the 3500 VVT or 3900 could easily surpass 300 RWHP.

Dennis: 400's with 5.565 rods can make just as much power as 400's with 6" rods. The extra rod length reduces the side loading on the cylinder and makes the engine less likely to put a rod through the block, but does NOT affect power potential of the engine. The 5.565 rod engine will like a slightly different cam than the 6" rod engine, but the ultimate power potential of the engine is determined by the cylinder heads, as always.

I've cited references you can read. I'm not going to spoon feed it to you. I can lead a horse to water, but drinking is his responsibility.

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 12-18-2012).]

quote Originally posted by Will: I've cited references you can read. I'm not going to spoon feed it to you. I can lead a horse to water, but drinking is his responsibility.

Here's a source examining certain effects on piston kinematics from varying connecting rod lengths for a given stroke.

The power potential for any motor lies in the amount of air and fuel you can fit in the motor, and burn. If the camshaft/valve motion fully compliments the condition of the cylinder, the rod length isn’t a primary factor to power production. Rod length does play a heavy factor in piston/cylinder wall loading.

EDIT:
the link would be beneficial: http://www.rustpuppy.org/rodstudy.htm

[This message has been edited by FieroWannaBe (edited 12-18-2012).]

There's lots of discussion on the topic... Some of what I've read says that because the peak piston velocity, and thus peak draw on the port, shows up earlier in the intake stroke with the short rod, this will "jump start" airflow in a large port. The converse is then that a long rod combo will maintain a more constant draw throughout the intake stroke and is better for small ports. The differences are VERY small.

However, pretty much everything I've read says that when each one is cammed correctly for that assembly, two different rotating assemblies with different rod lengths but the same heads will make the same power.

2 things.

1st Peak HP and TQ numbers are great for bragging but its the numbers under the curve that really hence why buddies 190hp Dodge Dart nuns 13" and my other friends 200hp Honda Civic runs 15's. He can pull through the entire RPM range while the Civic only has power near redline.

Displacement and Torque make a huge difference. Granted I do love the idea of a VVT motor in a Fiero.

2nd Hey FOY can we get an update? My request that I got my car back before first snowfall, well we got nearly 4" of snow last night and more expected today and tomorrow.

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857GT Part 85GT Part 87GT Part Caddy, 93 Eldorado 4.9, 5spd Dual O2 Custom Chip, Custom Exhaust. MSD Everything Now with Nitrous. Capt Fiero --- My Over View Cadero Pics Yellow 88GT 5spd Full Poly Suspension, Lowered 1/2" in front, Corner Carver.

quote Originally posted by Will: There's lots of discussion on the topic... Some of what I've read says that because the peak piston velocity, and thus peak draw on the port, shows up earlier in the intake stroke with the short rod, this will "jump start" airflow in a large port. The converse is then that a long rod combo will maintain a more constant draw throughout the intake stroke and is better for small ports. The differences are VERY small. However, pretty much everything I've read says that when each one is cammed correctly for that assembly, two different rotating assemblies with different rod lengths but the same heads will make the same power.

"cammed correctly"
Yes, I did say best results are when parts are matched.
http://victorylibrary.com/mopar/rod-tech-c.htm

We are talking about street motors afterall, aren't we?

and http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...961/Rod/Stroke_ratio
and http://chevytech.com/2c27o1.html

The long and short of it is that the shorter the rod, the bigger your valves have to be. It's great for low rpm torque but not top end. In order to make top end, you need racing heads with big valves (which the 4.9 doesn't have) ... essentially losing your bottom end advantage. Since we are dealing with street cars and street heads, 1.75 is the ideal.

[This message has been edited by lou_dias (edited 12-18-2012).]

Well its only 3" not 4, but we could get another 4-6 inches overnight tonight before the system moves past.



I am really curious exactly how that nose is going to operate in the snow. I don't have the car here to measure, but I think there is at least 4" between the bottom of the nose and the ground.

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857GT Part 85GT Part 87GT Part Caddy, 93 Eldorado 4.9, 5spd Dual O2 Custom Chip, Custom Exhaust. MSD Everything Now with Nitrous. Capt Fiero --- My Over View Cadero Pics Yellow 88GT 5spd Full Poly Suspension, Lowered 1/2" in front, Corner Carver.

quote Originally posted by lou_dias: "cammed correctly" Yes, I did say best results are when parts are matched. http://victorylibrary.com/mopar/rod-tech-c.htm We are talking about street motors afterall, aren't we? and http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...961/Rod/Stroke_ratio and http://chevytech.com/2c27o1.html The long and short of it is that the shorter the rod, the bigger your valves have to be. It's great for low rpm torque but not top end. In order to make top end, you need racing heads with big valves (which the 4.9 doesn't have) ... essentially losing your bottom end advantage. Since we are dealing with street cars and street heads, 1.75 is the ideal.

Right back at you:

http://www.chevyhiperforman...ngine_building_tips/

http://speedtalk.com/reher_morrison_books.html

Straight from the pros.

"Where people get into trouble is when they get a magical rod ratio in their head and screw up the entire engine design trying to achieve it. The rod ratio is pretty simple. Take whatever stroke you have, then put the wrist pin as high as you can on the piston without getting into the oil ring. What-ever connects the two is your rod length."

"Results are best when parts are matched" is a non-statement... It applies to everything.

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 12-18-2012).]

quote Originally posted by Capt Fiero: I am really curious exactly how that nose is going to operate in the snow. I don't have the car here to measure, but I think there is at least 4" between the bottom of the nose and the ground.

It negates the need for a snowplow.
Im jealous of the snow. I've only recieved rain, and a sad dusting. I want to go ski-ing

quote Originally posted by Will: Right back at you: http://www.chevyhiperforman...ngine_building_tips/ http://speedtalk.com/reher_morrison_books.html Straight from the pros. "Where people get into trouble is when they get a magical rod ratio in their head and screw up the entire engine design trying to achieve it. The rod ratio is pretty simple. Take whatever stroke you have, then put the wrist pin as high as you can on the piston without getting into the oil ring. What-ever connects the two is your rod length." "Results are best when parts are matched" is a non-statement... It applies to everything.

Why don't you quote the sentences before that?
The sentences you quoted only refers to determining the length of rod you need based on the crank you already have and pistons you already have. The articles I linked actually discusses pro's and con's of the ratio which this simple article doesn't go into.
Your article casually mentions issues lower than 1.55:1 (4.9 is 1.57:1, ouch) and mentions over 1:85:1 "seemed" impracticle, but doesn't mention the Honda S2000 (2.0:1 ratio) solves this by nature of being a VTEC motor.

Please read what I said that the articles say: low rod length ratio motors can make high end horsepower only when they have huge(/racing) heads. The 4.9 has no such thing. Higher rod length ratio motor are less prone to ignition issues because of the dwell time but have flow issues when the dwell time is to great. And in the end those factors are what derives the 'perfect ratio' of ~1.75:1... A simple test can be done on SBCs (and has been done) where you can run the same cam and heads and just change rods from shorter rod, taller piston to longer rod, shorter piston. There was an article in horsepower magazine where they did this very test back in the mid 90's.

They took a 2-bolt main street block and were able to get a good running 350 that made 337 rwhp with 37 degrees of advance just by changing the rod length and piston heights and keeping the stock crankshaft. I forget what heads, but the tests were done on the same heads, intake and cam. They did it with off the shelf parts. I believe they settled on stock 6+" rods, don't recall the pistons.

Wait! Here it is: http://www.purplesagetradin...0chevy%20engine.html
but my details were off on power: 412

[This message has been edited by lou_dias (edited 12-18-2012).]

quote Originally posted by lou_dias: Wait! Here it is: http://www.purplesagetradin...0chevy%20engine.html but my details were off on power: 412

That article is about destroking a 400 down to 352... not really a 350 stock rod to 350 long rod comparison. Or even a comparison of a stock 350 with the same heads/cam as the 352 from the destroked 400.

quote Originally posted by fieroguru: That article is about destroking a 400 down to 352... not really a 350 stock rod to 350 long rod comparison. Or even a comparison of a stock 350 with the same heads/cam as the 352 from the destroked 400.

So what effect do you suppose destroking a motor has on the rod length:stroke ratio?

This isn't the article I read, but a similar one. In the article I read it was a factory 350 block from a late 80's Camaro.

Let's make this easy for you and Will. Just show me a naturally aspirated motor making 1 HP per cubic inch with a ratio of 1.6:1 or lower that isn't using racing heads and isn't a race-prepped motor.

So what's up with the actual build ??

quote Originally posted by 81 4.9L X-11: So what's up with the actual build ??

That's what I'd like to know!

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857GT Part 85GT Part 87GT Part Caddy, 93 Eldorado 4.9, 5spd Dual O2 Custom Chip, Custom Exhaust. MSD Everything Now with Nitrous. Capt Fiero --- My Over View Cadero Pics Yellow 88GT 5spd Full Poly Suspension, Lowered 1/2" in front, Corner Carver.