It's my understanding from a previous thread that one can bolt the Pontiac G6 3.5 with 6-speed transmission into a Fiero! Is that so, and if so, can you do it as is, right out of the G6? Educate me on this please. It sounds like the best thing going for a Fiero! :-)

"can you do it as is, right out of the G6?"....well...that depends on semantics. Can you put the engine/tranny combo into a Fiero? Absolutely. Is it a direct swap? Absolutely not. You would need to find a solution to the following:

Engine/tranny mounts. You might get away with a stock engine mount on that engine with minor mods...and you might be able to use V8Archie F40 mounts. Otherwise, we are talking custom built mounts.

Axles. I believe V8Archie sells some axles that might work for this...otherwise, we are talking about custom built axles.

Shifter. You can probably get away with the V8Archie adapters here...otherwise, we are talking custom built.

Exhaust. It's gonna have to be a custom exhaust.

Coolant lines. Going to have to figure out how to route the coolant lines...it won't be stock routing, but shouldn't be too difficult.

Fuel lines. Stock lines won't work...but shouldn't be too difficult to run new lines.

Air intake. Again, will need some custom work, but shouldn't be too difficult.

Wiring. Here is the fun part....Not even going to attempt details on this one, there are too many directions you can go...but none of them are simple.

Of course, this is a simplified list....

If you treat it as a typical aluminum head motor swap into a Fiero 3100, 3400 the only challenge will be mounts and shift linkage setup for the F40 which only comes attached to the 3900 in the G6 although the 3500 will work fine in its place. You can solve the axle problem by using axles from the Saturn redline and Cobalt SS up to 2007 and properly mounting the intermediate shaft to the engine block and offsetting the engine to the right about 1". Of course this assumes you will also be using an engine management platform for the 3400 which is close enough to get you going reasonably well. I wouldn't aim so low regarding swapping a 3500 with its OE engine management, you may as well do the complete 3900 swap for the effort required.

[This message has been edited by Joseph Upson (edited 12-03-2012).]

Where did you find a G6 with the 3.5L and F40 6-speed? As far as I know, the 6-speed manual was only available behind the 3.9L engine, and only in the coupe GT/GTP at that. The 3.5L only came mated to the 4 speed auto, from the information I've seen.

If you actually have a 3.5 with a 6 speed, keep it in the G6. It's a very rare car.

If you mean the 3.6L engine and the 6 speed automatic, that is a completely different story for swapping.

quote Originally posted by Joseph Upson: If you treat it as a typical aluminum head motor swap into a Fiero 3100, 3400 the only challenge will be mounts and shift linkage setup for the F40 which only comes attached to the 3900 in the G6 although the 3500 will work fine in its place. You can solve the axle problem by using axles from the Saturn redline and Cobalt SS up to 2007 and properly mounting the intermediate shaft to the engine block or getting the inttermediate shaft from the G6 which is male ended and swapping the inboard joint cup on the Cobalt axle out for that on the G6 axle. Of course this assumes you will also be using an engine management platform for the 3400 which is close enough to get you going reasonably well. I wouldn't aim so low regarding swapping a 3500 with its OE engine management, you may as well do the complete 3900 swap for the effort required.

Let's get one thing understood...I'm not familiar with what comes with the G6! If the G6 6-speed (F40) only comes with the 3.9, then that is the combo I would want. This thread is the first research I have done on the subject, based on V-8 Archie using the 6-speed (F40) in his V-8 swaps, and hearing so much about swapping the 3.5 long block in lieu of the 3.4 swap to the Getrag. My assumption was the 3.5 came with the 6-speed. the 3.9 is even better (I assume) since it has more power, and designed for the 6-speed! Is the 3.9 the same dimensions as the 3.5? I assume not, since I've not heard of a 3.9 easy swap in lieu of the 3.4...? Is there anyone who has done the (G6 3.9/F40 swap) in a Fiero? If so, is there a thread on it? That sounds like it would be a sweet set-up, and fairly easy...!? Easier than, say, compared to a 350, 4.9, or similar V-8's or even the 3800, when bolting it to a F40 6-speed (adapter plate needed)...? Since there are no adapters needed with the 3.9/F40...just motor mounts, and shifting adapter...? The question still comes to my mind...how easy would that (3.9/F40) swap be in a Fiero?

[This message has been edited by hypo327 (edited 10-25-2012).]

quote Originally posted by CowsPatoot: "can you do it as is, right out of the G6?"....well...that depends on semantics. Can you put the engine/tranny combo into a Fiero? Absolutely. Is it a direct swap? Absolutely not. You would need to find a solution to the following: Engine/tranny mounts. You might get away with a stock engine mount on that engine with minor mods...and you might be able to use V8Archie F40 mounts. Otherwise, we are talking custom built mounts. Axles. I believe V8Archie sells some axles that might work for this...otherwise, we are talking about custom built axles. Shifter. You can probably get away with the V8Archie adapters here...otherwise, we are talking custom built. Exhaust. It's gonna have to be a custom exhaust. Coolant lines. Going to have to figure out how to route the coolant lines...it won't be stock routing, but shouldn't be too difficult. Fuel lines. Stock lines won't work...but shouldn't be too difficult to run new lines. Air intake. Again, will need some custom work, but shouldn't be too difficult. Wiring. Here is the fun part....Not even going to attempt details on this one, there are too many directions you can go...but none of them are simple. Of course, this is a simplified list....

I think it would be a cool swap as well, but as I look at the list CowsPatoot posted I would probably expect aprox, 2 years of down time. Unless of course you have a pile of cash to outsource the build.

quote Originally posted by hypo327: Let's get one thing understood...I'm not familiar with what comes with the G6! If the G6 6-speed (F40) only comes with the 3.9, then that is the combo I would want. This thread is the first research I have done on the subject, based on V-8 Archie using the 6-speed (F40) in his V-8 swaps, and hearing so much about swapping the 3.5 long block in lieu of the 3.4 swap to the Getrag. My assumption was the 3.5 came with the 6-speed. the 3.9 is even better (I assume) since it has more power, and designed for the 6-speed! Is the 3.9 the same dimensions as the 3.5? I assume not, since I've not heard of a 3.9 easy swap in lieu of the 3.4...? Is there anyone who has done the (G6 3.9/F40 swap) in a Fiero? If so, is there a thread on it? That sounds like it would be a sweet set-up, and fairly easy...!? Easier than, say, compared to a 350, 4.9, or similar V-8's or even the 3800, when bolting it to a F40 6-speed (adapter plate needed)...? Since there are no adapters needed with the 3.9/F40...just motor mounts, and shifting adapter...? The question still comes to my mind...how easy would that (3.9/F40) swap be in a Fiero?

Go to the search engine and type in "3900 V6" without the quotes. As to how easy, no one can answer that question for you. It's all relative based on your DIY skill level, knowledge, tools, time and resources. All GM 60 degree, cam in block V6 motors have the same bellhousing and packaging +/- a small bit.

quote Originally posted by hypo327: Let's get one thing understood...I'm not familiar with what comes with the G6! If the G6 6-speed (F40) only comes with the 3.9, then that is the combo I would want. This thread is the first research I have done on the subject, based on V-8 Archie using the 6-speed (F40) in his V-8 swaps, and hearing so much about swapping the 3.5 long block in lieu of the 3.4 swap to the Getrag. My assumption was the 3.5 came with the 6-speed. the 3.9 is even better (I assume) since it has more power, and designed for the 6-speed! Is the 3.9 the same dimensions as the 3.5? I assume not, since I've not heard of a 3.9 easy swap in lieu of the 3.4...? Is there anyone who has done the (G6 3.9/F40 swap) in a Fiero? If so, is there a thread on it? That sounds like it would be a sweet set-up, and fairly easy...!? Easier than, say, compared to a 350, 4.9, or similar V-8's or even the 3800, when bolting it to a F40 6-speed (adapter plate needed)...? Since there are no adapters needed with the 3.9/F40...just motor mounts, and shifting adapter...? The question still comes to my mind...how easy would that (3.9/F40) swap be in a Fiero?

it's been done more than once, you just have to decide what you want, do you keep VVT and DBW, or lockout the cam, slap a N* TB on it, and run a 7730.

the first way is the hard way, the second is the "easy" way...

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there's a Group on 60degreeV6.com for us 660 Fiero owners!

Fiero Owner's group on 60degreeV6.com

I know these lines Look crooked on paper, but I swear I've got them straight in my head.

I would think the whole point of using a newer technology drivetrain would be to take advantage of the newer technology. The downside is the cost of the drivetrain.
I have been pricing out the 2008 2.8t Saab swap that I am doing in my orange and black GT. Engine with 20k, matching F40, uncut harness, and pcm best price so far is $5800.00
I am all for direct injected, VVT engines and have been working on them for years, so I can appreciate the advantages they have.
I honestly believe that the High Feature engine will be the swap of the future.

Dave

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www.hausofguru.com

[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 10-26-2012).]

quote Originally posted by bmwguru: ... I honestly believe that the High Feature engine will be the swap of the future.

That engine and the 6T70E (75E?) is my dream swap.

The 3.5 in the G6 only came with the 4-speed auto.

The 3.9 in the G6 came with the 4-speed auto, and optionally with the 6-speed manual. It could be had in both coupe and sedan form, but not convertible.

The 3.6 was matched only to the 6-speed auto.

Thanks to Cowspatoot & Haus of Guru, and others, this is what I understand: If I could find a totaled Pontiac G6 with a 3.9 V6 with an F40 6-speed transmission, I could transfer it into my '86 late-run GT, using the G6 ECM and wiring harness, and V8 Archie's shift kit, engine/transmission mounts, and axle adapter kit. Plus, adapting fuel lines, and cooling lines, and build a new custom exhaust system.

Have I got it straight, or am I missing a major point?

quote Originally posted by hypo327: Thanks to Cowspatoot & Haus of Guru, and others, this is what I understand: If I could find a totaled Pontiac G6 with a 3.9 V6 with an F40 6-speed transmission, I could transfer it into my '86 late-run GT, using the G6 ECM and wiring harness, and V8 Archie's shift kit, engine/transmission mounts, and axle adapter kit. Plus, adapting fuel lines, and cooling lines, and build a new custom exhaust system. Have I got it straight, or am I missing a major point?

pretty much, you could also make your own parts, I made all my own mounts for my F23 swap, and I've also made my own shifter from scratch for the swap that uses Isuzu cables. I feel like my setup on my F23 is far superior to everything else currently on the market. the axles would probably be the hard part if you DIY.

I feel like the hardest part is going to be the wiring, it's not plug and play like a 7730 swap, I'm almost done with my harness for my 3500 swap, it's not that hard, just very time intensive to get it right, and even moreso to have it look good. I spent about 80-100 hours working on tucking my harness, taping it, and finishing the all the connections.

Edit:

after thinking about it a little more, I probably one have about 40-50 hours into the harness.

[This message has been edited by ericjon262 (edited 11-03-2012).]

I have made a few nice looking harnesses before and I have less that 10 hour each into them.... realistically less than 2 hours into each of them.

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: I have made a few nice looking harnesses before and I have less that 10 hour each into them.... realistically less than 2 hours into each of them.

there's a couple of reasons mine took longer, My harness is 100% custom, so nothing was plug and play. I got it halfway finished, and then I went OBD2, so I had to add several wires after taping it up, I have also made several other changes along the way to my build, some that change the locations of components, so I had to redo those parts again. it was also my first time building a harness.

realistically, I could have done it much faster, if I was able to re-use more of the stock harness(J/y cut it to ribbons...), and if the swap was a more stock swap.

now that I think about it too, it was probably more like 40-50 hours, not 80-100...

[This message has been edited by ericjon262 (edited 11-03-2012).]

quote Originally posted by hypo327: Thanks to Cowspatoot & Haus of Guru, and others, this is what I understand: If I could find a totaled Pontiac G6 with a 3.9 V6 with an F40 6-speed transmission, I could transfer it into my '86 late-run GT, using the G6 ECM and wiring harness, and V8 Archie's shift kit, engine/transmission mounts, and axle adapter kit. Plus, adapting fuel lines, and cooling lines, and build a new custom exhaust system. Have I got it straight, or am I missing a major point?

Thanks guys...I think we are getting some place!? I have my own shop/garage with all the necessary tools. I can drop my engine/cradle by myself in about 3-hrs. (slow because I'm an old man...lol!) Is it the spline gears that are different on the F-40, because the length should be pretty close dimentionally!? I would be going with the modern electrical system swap, from the G6, or the GTP/GPX. I read up on this in Wikipedia, and they changed the engine specs about every time they changed their shorts...lol! But from what I can understand, the 2007 GT model with the F-40 had a 3.9 @ 240 h.p. (sweet!) Then there was the GTP with the 3.6 DOHV @ 252 h.p.! That shouldn't be much different...!? But, it's a real big-in-a-poke as to what combination one can find in a salvage yard, or used car lot! My object, again, would be to buy the whole car and swap all it's components into the Fiero. I would think one could use the G6 axles also...!? I don't see that it would be that big of a job to swap if one has all the component parts (systems) to swap...depending,of course, the cost, on what one could get a used G6, GTP, or GTX with the F-40 in it...?

I'd still like to know, from some one who has done this (transferring all components) exactly what one would be looking at to do it. A thread on the procedure, or specifically spelled out list, would be helpful to determine practicality and cost. Any takers...Mr. Guru how about you? You seem to be on the same wave link as me...? You are going to be doing this swap one day, if you haven't yet...!???

I just completed a 3.4 swap in my late run '86 (with all the '87 parts and up-grades.) This inquiry is mostly for my son, who is going to be purchasing a good '88 GT when he gets back from Brazil in a year or so. We want to make the very best drive train mods we can, and he wants something with some muscle! We are definitely going with the F-40 transmission, and probably the Corvette 350 or Northstar. But, the G6 full-package just seems to make good sense to me! I'm thinking, maybe one could easily adapt the suspension, brakes, etc. also!? I don't know...that's why I'm asking the experts!

[This message has been edited by hypo327 (edited 12-03-2012).]

It's not an easy complete swap. To my knowledge someone has attempted it but little info is available as to the final results to date according to the video of it on youtube, where the car is running with the engine light on (not good).

I believe the closest thing to what you can expect with this swap can be found in what was involved with the LS4 swap using all of its stock components. Cars are very complicated now when it comes to swapping a complete platform due to the PCM, TCM (for auto trannies) and BCM combos that work together and in some cases not at all if one is missing from the loop. Three onboard computers is an awful lot for a Fiero that comes stock without a cup holder. You'll just about be building a car from scratch if you use the complete engine management system from a G6 which will likely require part of if not all of the steering column and gauge cluster, possibly the radio also.

A swap like this in a Fiero intended to be restored is fine in my opinion but for a car intended to be used as a built up project car (rough everywhere else) it will be an awful lot of work. The mechanical aspect is straight forward, it is interfacing the new technology with the stoneage Fiero that will be a killer of a time investment, accelerator pedal mounting, gauges and all else that will be required not to mention at least two to three times the wiring headache of an OBD I swap harness.

It's the best way for the most appreciable ending but it's going to cost you big, in time and money.

quote Originally posted by hypo327: Then there was the GTP with the 3.6 DOHV @ 252 h.p.! That shouldn't be much different...!? But, it's a real big-in-a-poke as to what combination one can find in a salvage yard, or used car lot! My object, again, would be to buy the whole car and swap all it's components into the Fiero. I would think one could use the G6 axles also...!? I don't see that it would be that big of a job to swap if one has all the component parts (systems) to swap...depending,of course, the cost, on what one could get a used G6, GTP, or GTX with the F-40 in it...?

The G6 cars with the 3.6 DOHC never came with a manual transmission. The GTP/GXP versions with the 3.6 DOHC engine are all 6-speed AUTO, and it is a significantly different swap than a 3.5/3.9 with F-40 6-speed manual. Unless you want to spend a lot of money and time trying to make a 3.6 DOHC + auto swap work in a Fiero, you'll want to outright avoid the new DOHC V6 (High Feature, 2.8/3.1/3.2/3.6) engines, and stick wit h the High Value V6 engines (3.5/3.9) for a swap to a modern V6.

quote Originally posted by dobey: The G6 cars with the 3.6 DOHC never came with a manual transmission. The GTP/GXP versions with the 3.6 DOHC engine are all 6-speed AUTO, and it is a significantly different swap than a 3.5/3.9 with F-40 6-speed manual. Unless you want to spend a lot of money and time trying to make a 3.6 DOHC + auto swap work in a Fiero, you'll want to outright avoid the new DOHC V6 (High Feature, 2.8/3.1/3.2/3.6) engines, and stick wit h the High Value V6 engines (3.5/3.9) for a swap to a modern V6.

That makes sense Dobey. So, why can't one go with the 3.9/F40 combo, and use only the wiring one needs and keep it as simple as possible? I think that's what the Guru is suggesting..? It just seems logical to me, this should (or could) be a practical swap by eliminating all the extra electrical stuff that is unnecessary for the Fiero!? Putting aside the cost of a donor car, I just can't help but think there would be a practical, and relatively simple way of doing this...!? At least it should be more simple than slapping an F40 on an LT-1 swap, which is done allot...!? Am I right, or still out in left field? I would definitely pick Archie's brain about this and pick up as many parts from him as practical for adapting the other parts, as necessary.

quote Originally posted by hypo327: That makes sense Dobey. So, why can't one go with the 3.9/F40 combo, and use only the wiring one needs and keep it as simple as possible? I think that's what the Guru is suggesting..? It just seems logical to me, this should (or could) be a practical swap by eliminating all the extra electrical stuff that is unnecessary for the Fiero!? Putting aside the cost of a donor car, I just can't help but think there would be a practical, and relatively simple way of doing this...!? At least it should be more simple than slapping an F40 on an LT-1 swap, which is done allot...!? Am I right, or still out in left field? I would definitely pick Archie's brain about this and pick up as many parts from him as practical for adapting the other parts, as necessary.

The LT1 is an older engine that is not drive by wire, it also pre dates a lot of the more advanced engine and drive train management systems found in current vehicles. In order to simplify an install by eliminating "the extra electrical stuff" it first has to be possible relative to the way the system computers are linked through the software so that it can be tuned out of the management loop in order to avoid setting PCM codes. In other words, if the BCM is hard coded into the PCM programming, the PCM will expect to communicate with it and if it is not present there will be problems. You will have to research the tuning software to see what is and is not possible to tune out of the drivetrain management loop.

About the only thing that makes a 3.6L more difficult than the 3.9L swap is that no one has swapped a 3.6L into a Fiero yet and you will not have the added task of wiring in the automatic tranny and the required steering wheel with the alternate tap shift controls unless you bypass or remove them from it if possible. It's about the equivalent of adapting the F40 to the Fiero with custom mounts and shift linkage which pretty much makes them even except Archie has already packaged that part for you. Otherwise the engine management requirements are about the same since you're dealing with the same donor car.

[This message has been edited by Joseph Upson (edited 12-04-2012).]

I have the 3.6 in my 2012 impala and it is a potent motor. It would need some tuning for the fiero though. The factory has a lazy gas pedal and shifts. I wouldn't want that in the fiero. When putting your foot down the power will surprise you a little.

quote Originally posted by hypo327: That makes sense Dobey. So, why can't one go with the 3.9/F40 combo, and use only the wiring one needs and keep it as simple as possible? I think that's what the Guru is suggesting..?

One can go with the 3.9/F40 combo. It's been done before even. The problem is the 3.6 (which you keep mentioning), which doesn't come mated to a manual, but the 6t70 or 6t75 automatic.

The 3.5 and 3.9 have been done a few times now already, so there should be plenty of documentation. The 3.6 hasn't been done, has a different bell pattern than the 3.5 and 3.9, and doesn't come with a 6 speed manual mated to it. The F40 with the bell pattern for the 3.6 is very rare, and much more expensive than the G6 F40.

However, if you want a fast car with the F40, the quickest way to get there is just take the car to Archie and pay him for a fully done LS376/F40 swap. You'll get a 480 HP LS3 V8 and the F40 6 speed gearbox.

Basically with in reason any thing GM FWD set up can be installed into a Fiero, you may have to deal with things like exhaust, mounts,. brackets and in the case of the F40 axles. Electronics wise the biggest problem is with the newer engines that have not been broken down yet programming wise to be able to deal with items like pass key and the requirement of the body computer in some cases making the electronics portion the larger headache.
Fly by wire throttle is a good example on many set ups it is easier to just revert back to a cable driven throttle body and use an older PCM that has been programmed to deal with the problem or as some do use the body computer and such and add in a second ignition switch to retain the pass key system.
It all depends on what you are doing and how much work you want to do to make it run properly. Dan

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I think this is a thread that we need to revisited.

California has this "star" certified smog now.. I might have to swap out my precious built 3.4L that barely passes and go into looking for that perfect 3.9L V6 with the 6 speed manual. Hell yeah!!! My wife is going to kill me. 3.4L for sale soon... depending

Concerns... I need to pass bar (.)

*Check engine light issues
* ABS?
* I read the different things to look into already; wiring harness, CV axles, etc...

What other things are the obstacle.

I did one swap... what's another. 240hp stock... plus the goodies and no turbo! what an engine for the perfect size car... I brought this up before in another thread but no one really got into the 3.9L engine. Is there a successful swap with no check engine light? --- that will pass bar?

[This message has been edited by unboundmo (edited 05-31-2013).]

FWIW
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...070315-2-072050.html

I eventually put a 3.4 behind it...

quote Originally posted by unboundmo: I think this is a thread that we need to revisited. California has this "star" certified smog now.. I might have to swap out my precious built 3.4L that barely passes and go into looking for that perfect 3.9L V6 with the 6 speed manual. Hell yeah!!! My wife is going to kill me. 3.4L for sale soon... depending Concerns... I need to pass bar (.) *Check engine light issues * ABS? * I read the different things to look into already; wiring harness, CV axles, etc... What other things are the obstacle. I did one swap... what's another. 240hp stock... plus the goodies and no turbo! what an engine for the perfect size car... I brought this up before in another thread but no one really got into the 3.9L engine. Is there a successful swap with no check engine light? --- that will pass bar?

Joseph Upson has been running a turbocharged 3.9 with F40 for quite some time. There are also plenty of 3.5 swaps running at this point, without CEL issues, afaik. Joseph's swap is pretty well documented, as are some of the 3.5 swaps, so if you search the forum for them, you should find enough information on it.

Transverse turbo 3.6 DOHC.

http://www.lotustalk.com/fo...ement-2x-fun-102052/


Not sure if the cadillac/Camaro flywheel and clutch assembly are a good candidate for a manual swap but at least there is an OE flywheel and clutch assembly available for it although expensive. When the turbo version in the camaro is out that will probably top any late model swap potential into a Fiero, very light, very powerful with fuel efficiency expectations above 30 mpg.

quote Originally posted by Joseph Upson: Transverse turbo 3.6 DOHC. http://www.lotustalk.com/fo...ement-2x-fun-102052/ Not sure if the cadillac/Camaro flywheel and clutch assembly are a good candidate for a manual swap but at least there is an OE flywheel and clutch assembly available for it although expensive. When the turbo version in the camaro is out that will probably top any late model swap potential into a Fiero, very light, very powerful with fuel efficiency expectations above 30 mpg.

For the 3.6 DOHC, you could use the Saab clutch/flywheel assembly. And the Saab F40 that came behind the 2.8t. That'd get them mated together without an adapter plate, and the cluth/flywheel should fit perfectly. The CTS/Camaro bell housing is different, and I think the flywheel/clutch combo from those is not the right thickness. I don't know what all other FWD combinations came with a High Feature V6 and a manual transmission.

If you mate it up to a trans with an adapter plate, you're almost certainly going to need a custom flywheel/clutch setup, to get the thickness right.

quote Originally posted by dobey: The CTS/Camaro bell housing is different, .

How so, it's the same motor as found in the FWD cars with performance enhancements. There is only one bellhousing pattern that I'm aware of for the 3.6L. You can't bolt the RWD tranny from either V6 car to an LS series V8 without a bellhousing change because it has the 3.6L bolt pattern. As for the flywheel that's a given except for not seeing it first to be sure.

quote Originally posted by Joseph Upson: How so, it's the same motor as found in the FWD cars with performance enhancements. There is only one bellhousing pattern that I'm aware of for the 3.6L. You can't bolt the RWD tranny from either V6 car to an LS series V8 without a bellhousing change because it has the 3.6L bolt pattern. As for the flywheel that's a given except for not seeing it first to be sure.

The pattern is the same yes. But the depth may be different, and it may thus have a different thickness flywheel/clutch combination than the FWD Saab F40+2.8t does. I didn't say it wouldn't fit. I said it's unknown. However, the Saab 2.8t+F40 flywheel/clutch is an exact match to the High Feature V6 + F40 combination. It's hard enough just finding an actual Saab F40 with the HFV6 bell pattern, and you're unlikely to find one for < $500, especially with 0 miles, like you can for the G6 F40.

Also the HFV6 3.6 DOHC also hadn't been mentioned in some time in this thread. unboundmo brought up some concerns about doing the 3.9+F40 swap in California due to the emissions regs there, and I suggested he look at your thread for more info on that, as I don't think you're having any issues with the CEL staying on or the such.

You're looking at the tranny side, I posted that link to point out the options with Saab parts and that there is indeed a turbo 3.6L F40 combo in the works. I mentioned the camaro and CTS as a side bar to show that there is a GM manual flywheel that fits the engine. Remember that the F40 has more housing depth and that's why it was possible for me to use a RWD flywheel from a 3.4L camaro needing only to have it machined to fit the ring gear and internal housing diameter, plus a surface shave because of how thick it is.

Saab parts are scarce and will be premium priced so it's definitely worth looking into.

quote Originally posted by Joseph Upson: You're looking at the tranny side, I posted that link to point out the options with Saab parts and that there is indeed a turbo 3.6L F40 combo in the works. I mentioned the camaro and CTS as a side bar to show that there is a GM manual flywheel that fits the engine. Remember that the F40 has more housing depth and that's why it was possible for me to use a RWD flywheel from a 3.4L camaro needing only to have it machined to fit the ring gear and internal housing diameter, plus a surface shave because of how thick it is. Saab parts are scarce and will be premium priced so it's definitely worth looking into.

Right. And it's likely you'll have to do a similar facing of the friction surface to make it thinner for the F40 bell depth, vs the Tremec bell depth. And I don't know if facing can really be done on those flywheels, because they are the dual mass flywheels. So if the bell depth is different, you may just have to use a Saab flywheel, or go custom anyway. I wasn't saying you couldn't use it. I was saying it's probably easier to just use the Saab one. As you say, the Saab parts are scarce and at a premium, so if you're lucky enough to find a Saab F40 to use with a HF V6, you might as well grab the flywheel/clutch as well.

If you're looking to go the widely available F40 route, then you're going to need an adapter plate, and if the flywheel from the RWD cars is the right thickness difference for the adapter plate, would be perfect to use. If not, you'll need to make a flywheel to deal with the difference in depth due to the adapter.

Anyway, I don't think we disagree. I was just suggesting it's probably easier to just use the Saab one if you are going to try to go for an HFV6 with the F40.

get a spare cradle. Do the swap on that. Drive the car while you are doing the work.

OK, so I didn't read all the posts too many replies.

I'm currently doing this exact swap. 3.5L LZ engine from a 2008 Impala with a F40 6 speed (2006) into an 87 Fiero.

The 3.5L LZ is the same block size as the other pushrod V6s people swap (2.8, 3.1, 3.4, 3.5 LX) etc... they have larger bores and different heads, timing cover etc..

The following are the tough parts in my experience:

Axles.
Variable Valve Timing (remove or use an ECU that can control it)
Drive By Wire (remove or use with ECU or external DBW controller) also requires the electronic throttle pedal.

Exhaust is all custom (header flanges are available contact me for details)
Fuel lines a pressure regulator needs to be added. Modern GM fuel systems are single line with the fuel regulator in the tank... not too big a deal.
G6 Flywheel, clutch and pressure plate required or custom flywheel & clutch
Clutch Line adapter required for quick connect slave cylinder
Master cylinder required to match G6 piston size
Shift bracket (may require new shift cables depending on whose bracket you use)
Shifter assembly 4 speed Fiero assembly may work,

All of these can be overcome in various ways. Though throwing $$ at the swap sure helps.

The manual G6 uses an extension shaft and equal length axles. If you get the extension shaft from a 2006 - 2007 G6 it will bolt right to the block, no fabrication of bearing adapters required as would be the case with Cobalt SS or Saab Axles etc.. G6 extension shafts are still available new from GM. Axles to my knowledge are unique to the G6. The Cobalt SS and Saab use axles that fit the F40 but they are of a slightly different style and the extension shaft is longer; so a custom bearing mount is needed. Its easiest to use the G6 parts as it is all bolt up.

I've heard of various approaches to making the axles fit the F40. One approach is to use two driver side axles from the Fiero and remove the inner CV boot, swap the G6/F40 CV cup for the Fiero one. Note I haven't validated this method yet personally as I've taken slightly different approach. I've swapped the outers onto the G6 shafts...

It appears a few GM outer CVs have interchangeable parts. I'm doing an axle upgrade using the 31 spline wheel bearings and have been able to hybrid the outer CVs onto the G6 shafts.

Axles could be one of the toughest things as you may end up re-splining to use the Fiero wheel bearings. Though I think there is a way to make it all work by swapping parts but its a lot of research. I think its far easier to just buy an axle to length and splined how you want it.

The clutch is another issue as the G6 uses a Hydraulic Throw Out Bearing. Fortunately the adapter can be sourced cheaply. However a modification for the master cylinder is required. I've heard a travel stop. I prefer buying a properly sized master cylinder from someone like AP racing or Tilton. A bit pricy but then it works properly.

Trans mounts can be bought.

Torque strut mount can be made by modifying a stock torque strut mount from either an Impala or a Malibu (I'll have to check which one I used). The modifications requires machining a bushing for a 10mm bolt from steel and milling part of the bracket so the bushing can be welded in place. Then filling another hole with weld, grinding and re-drilling. The stock torque strut used by GM is on the harmonic balancer end of this engine. The mods I made will turn it around to mount it on the bell housing side where you can weld a bracket to the chassis.

Another step is to remove torque mount from shock tower to make clearance for alternator or relocate alternator. I've tried the relocation option and am going to end up removing the torque mount and weld a new one in.

A stock 2.8L coolant line can probably be used to pipe coolant from the accessory side of the engine (at the firewall) to the driver side coolant tube. I haven't finished this one yet as I'm considering going stainless rather than steel but the preliminary fit says it'll work with minor welding of the 2.8L coolant tube to mount it to the engine.

A fuel pressure regulator needs to be added as the 3.5 and 3.9 were shipped in cars with a single fuel line to the engine. The regulator was mounted in tank. So an external regulator is needed to send fuel back to the tank and maintain line pressure. This of course will also require quick connect fittings for the fuel rail.

Trans mounts can be bought from either Archie or West Coast Fiero.

Engine mount can be adapted with care from a 2.8L. Though I found it easier to make a new one using a SBC trans mount. I have a pattern for this if needed.

Shift brackets Archie or Chris West sell.

Shift cables. Archie and Chris West sell these.

A vacuum line from the rearward facing side of the intake manifold is needed to provide vacuum for the power brakes.

Fuel, evap, and emissions systems are on my todo list in the next few weeks. Something has to be done with these. Not sure just yet though.

A/C lines. You can hybrid an AC line using a Fiero 2.8L (2.5L may work too) and a 2008 Impala AC line. In this case you remove the ends that goto the Fiero chassis on the driver side connection block and attach the Impala hoses. I was able to carefully cut the steel ferrules off the 2008 Impala hose and re-use the hoses. Amazingly the stock Impala hose are just about the right length that all I have to do is have them crimped to the Fiero connection block. I may actually have this line replicated if you need one let me know.

If you can get the wire harness from the donor car you can buy a pin removal tool and isolate the engine harness from the Auto Trans harness from almost any 3.5L LZ or 3.9L LZ and splice into the fiero harness. Some of these connectors are available new. The removal and crimping tools are about $40-80. Crimp ends can be bought at a reasonable price to remake or customize the harness.

You'll need to buy some software if you plan to re-use the stock G6 computer (they can be found for $60 to $200). The software isn't cheap ($850) and I'm sure your local tuner shop probably has it. You'll need the software to turn VATs off which is a theft deterrent system on the stock computer. One thing it does is query the CAN Bus network to make sure all the electronics boxes are there that are supposed to be there.

The entire swap isn't too bad, but it is expensive and time consuming.


Overall its not a bad swap as the G6 3.9L made 240 Hp and redlined at 6K (or was it 6500). It has a nice power band right up to redline. And is fun to drive in the G6 even with an auto. It's gotta be a ton of fun in the Fiero... I'll let you know.

The total price for all this is going to range from about $4500 to $6500 depending on how you go about it. If you are really good at finding the parts you might be able to knock it down to $3500.


A good alternate is a 4.6L Northstar, 5.3L LS4 swap, the tried and true 3800 swap or one of the new High Feature V6s from Opel Insignia (GM Europe), Saab 2.8L, or any of the rear drive cars that come with the 3.6L. Transmission options are probably the biggest thing that will effect you. If you must have a manual it may be tough to find the right trans/engine combo, but its never stopped people in the past. It just adds to the to-do list.

If you can live with the new transmissions I'd think an auto wouldn't be so bad especially with paddle shift.

Overall from a work standpoint I think they are all about the same. The difference is which and what work you need to do.

PM me with any specific questions I'll see if I can answer them.

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: I have made a few nice looking harnesses before and I have less that 10 hour each into them.... realistically less than 2 hours into each of them.

Not a plug/play fully integrated harness. 2 hours isn't even enough time to get all the 20 year old electrical tape off the Fiero harness.

What I really meant to say was the new 2012 camaro 3.6L LFX motor and a 6 speed manual.. 323hp and 278lbs of torque.. Now that would be fun to drive. If I were to go OBD2 and be legal with a camaro brain, This is it for me..!

Any takers. The LFX motor is rarely metioned in the Fiero forums. Well, I haven't seen anyone try this one yet. Would this swap be possible?

quote Originally posted by unboundmo: What I really meant to say was the new 2012 camaro 3.6L LFX motor and a 6 speed manual.. 323hp and 278lbs of torque.. Now that would be fun to drive. If I were to go OBD2 and be legal with a camaro brain, This is it for me..! Any takers. The LFX motor is rarely metioned in the Fiero forums. Well, I haven't seen anyone try this one yet. Would this swap be possible?

Possible? Yes. Financially feasible or easy? Not so much. You're going to have to buy a new crate engine, which is already $4-5K, then you're going to have to either find a Saab F40, or get a G6 F40 and design and build an adapter plate. The Saab trans will likely be more expensive. Then there's all the fab work to mount it in the Fiero, and get the fuel/coolant lines hooked up, and the throttle pointing the right way. Then there's the exhaust. The LFX has integrated manifolds in the heads, so you might not have enough room in the Fiero to do proper exhaust, and you won't be able to just throw a set of custom headers on it. And then there's the electronics, which will be very time consuming, and add a lot more to the cost if you can't do it yourself.

A slightly modded 3800 will give you the same power, and be much easier and cheaper, to install. There are also plenty of V8 options with the same power which will be cheaper/easier to install. Even a 3.4 DOHC with a mild turbo would be easier to install, and get you to the 300 hp range.

Yes... There are cheaper swaps. But I want to keep my manual.. But more importantly, pass smog legally. Engines can only mate with what factory has done.

Watching gas monkey right now and they have an f40.. I'm ready to tear the fiero apart!

[This message has been edited by unboundmo (edited 06-13-2013).]

quote Originally posted by unboundmo: Yes... There are cheaper swaps. But I want to keep my manual.. But more importantly, pass smog legally. Engines can only mate with what factory has done. Watching gas monkey right now and they have an f40.. I'm ready to tear the fiero apart!

Well, there are cheaper swaps that will be smog legal. If you're really willing to spend $20K to get an LFX running right in a Fiero, and passing smog in CA though, maybe you should just spend the extra $5K and buy a new Camaro? Or spend a little less and get a used one.

quote Originally posted by dobey: Well, there are cheaper swaps that will be smog legal. If you're really willing to spend $20K to get an LFX running right in a Fiero, and passing smog in CA though, maybe you should just spend the extra $5K and buy a new Camaro? Or spend a little less and get a used one.

Not even close to $20K.
www.car-parts.com shows LLT's for as little as $1400, with a $2000 example within driving distance virtually guaranteed.
LFX's are down to about $1000, as they are also used in Impalas.
A Saab F40 will set you back about the same amount.
Depending on which DI engine you get, you may need transverse oil pan and manifolds, maybe not.

Anyway... the swap won't cost anything CLOSE to $20K.