Well I guess I'm asking what do you guys think of these three motors and witch one is best for a swap (NOTE: a longituinal swap using probbly the audi 01x or 01E trans)? I've had 2 L67 cars one a 98 gtp and one an 87 fast back witch i loved and would not have gotten rid of if I wasn't gettig married and in need of the money so I LOVE the L67 but I was thinking about using another motor The l67 are nice stong and easy to build up but I wasn't sure if there was anything better. I know the GM 4.3 is a good stong running v6 than can be built up to aroud 300 or so HP NA and the 350 well its a classic and makes good power but not the Ls1 I cant afford one of those haha.

what do you think and why?

3800sc why? Power, reliability, easy swap, good mpg, lots and lots and lots of aftermarket... But the biggest reason I chose it was because the Fiero isn't a muscle car, I don't want a low revving v8... I want a high revving, wailing v6... Which I can turbo and decimate all... The 3800 fits the character of the Fiero much better. Last but not least it looks cool! It's a pretty engine.

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86 Fiero GTX project now tearing up the street, My build thread! 3800sc, interior, wheels, suspension and more! https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/089483.html

Thanks! You've got a good point the 3.8 always felt great in my fiero!

This thread will start a few fights.. LOL

L67... but I think a turbo ECOTEC would be sweet.

Suzuki G10 engine FTW!

either L67 or smallblock if those are the choices, the 4.3 would be just as much work as the smallblock, so I would avoid it. I'm doing a 3500 swap though...

If you're using an Audi transmission, then any of those three engines will need custom-fab work to mate up with it. So the '3800 is easier' mantra doesn't really apply here.

Personally, I'd choose the 4.3 V6. It uses many of the same parts as the SBC V8, which means there is a HUGE aftermarket. Also, the 4.3 V6 is practically bullet-proof. I've seen them built to ~400HP naturally aspirated. And it's just as easy to put a turbo on a 4.3 as it is to put one on a 3800.

nothing sounds better than a v8.

3800 SC or NA is perfect.

Why? Its cheaper and less complicated than the small block chevy swap. if you want performance its the best swap you can go with wether its turbo or supercharged. Most trannys will bolt up to it, they are reliable engines having owned 2 3800 cars in my life. I'm going to swap the motor in my 86 for it sooner or later.

The 4.3 I don't know to much about them but I heard they are very difficult to swap into a Fiero but they aren't to bad either. I was considering a 4.3 for my Camaro years ago. They are great engines to work with, plenty of engine upgrades out there like the 3800.

The 350 small block I'm not to thrilled with. They are expensive and from what I've seen they don't perform nearly as well as the 3800 V6'ers do. There's a lot of complications with transmission mounting and so on. I honestly wouldn't go with the V8 in a Fiero period. Unless you must have that V8 sound in a Fiero, buy an LS1 Camaro and throw a V6 in the Fiero is the way I see it.

quote Originally posted by BV MotorSports: This thread will start a few fights.. LOL L67... but I think a turbo ECOTEC would be sweet.

until the v8 guys post some time slips of their streetable fiero's doing better times then dark, justin, l67fiero etc with the 3800's personally i think they have nothing to say

quote Originally posted by IVANNATINKLE: Well I guess I'm asking what do you guys think of these three motors and witch one is best for a swap (NOTE: a longituinal swap using probbly the audi 01x or 01E trans)? I've had 2 L67 cars one a 98 gtp and one an 87 fast back witch i loved and would not have gotten rid of if I wasn't gettig married and in need of the money so I LOVE the L67 but I was thinking about using another motor The l67 are nice stong and easy to build up but I wasn't sure if there was anything better. I know the GM 4.3 is a good stong running v6 than can be built up to aroud 300 or so HP NA and the 350 well its a classic and makes good power but not the Ls1 I cant afford one of those haha. what do you think and why?

If you're dead set on longitudinal, then you'll need the engine that shortest from bellhousing to pullies. The longitudinal choice is going to drive you to do a lot of strange things and make a lot of odd choices that you won't have to with transverse. FYI.

quote Originally posted by Will: If you're dead set on longitudinal, then you'll need the engine that shortest from bellhousing to pullies. The longitudinal choice is going to drive you to do a lot of strange things and make a lot of odd choices that you won't have to with transverse. FYI.

X2

Once you decide to go longitudinal, several key benefits of the 3800 (in a transfese layout) are no longer in play (like no need for an adapter plate, retain factory exhaust manifolds vendor support for plug & play engine mounts, etc) and several of the items that complicate the SBC/4.3 (like starter and oil filter relocation) are no longer issues.

Any GM engine you bolt to the transmission will require an adapter plate and you may find that adapter plate with the SBC/4.3 pattern to be cheaper than the one with the GM metric pattern. As you look at the exhaust setup, you will find quite a few more longitudinal layout options for the SBC/4.3 than the 3800 (pretty much limited to the 3800 Camaro) where as the SBC/4.3 have been used in many more applications as well as racing series.

[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 11-09-2012).]

quote Originally posted by Will: If you're dead set on longitudinal, then you'll need the engine that shortest from bellhousing to pullies. The longitudinal choice is going to drive you to do a lot of strange things and make a lot of odd choices that you won't have to with transverse. FYI.

If we are talking longitudinal... Subaru 2.5t all the way (STI engine mated to a Subaru FWD trans or the STi's 6MT converted to FWD only). Now that would be awesome!

Or the 4.0 W8 engine if using a VW/Audi transaxle...

Go with which ever swap will put the biggest smile on your face when you mash the gas! Some chuse their swap soley on time-slips. Thats fine if your building a track car; but the majority of us just want to have a nice, quick DD...

Only bit of advice I can give; the smile on your face will only happen if the swap gets completed. So be realistic with your budget, time & skill...

With the above being said, I went w/ the 3800sc. Its a well documented swap and after my research, I felt like I could accomplish it; so far so good

quote Originally posted by 85bluegtma: until the v8 guys post some time slips of their streetable fiero's doing better times then dark, justin, l67fiero etc with the 3800's personally i think they have nothing to say

This gets pretty old. The fact is that in the quarter a 3800 works very well in a Fiero. It certainly isn't an issue of engine capabilty. The whole world isn't hung up on standing starts and drag radials with reliabilty at the edge on cars they drive on the street. I have a 3800 in mine. Other than low gear, I'd rather have a V8. The 3800 being cheaper or easier to do is beside the point. If easy were the end all, we'd all use the 4.9 Caddy.

[This message has been edited by weaselbeak (edited 11-09-2012).]

I remember when FieroX was making his predictions of what his car would do and the V8 guys didn't believe him. I love my turbo ls4, but he was right.

3800's are just to common, I want something that stands out more honestly. Everyone who pops there trunk has a 3.8 or the stock 2.8/3.4.

I have never in person saw a v8 swap, they use to be common as I read. I personally want a v8 because I know what there capable of first hand.

As for 3800s yes there nice, there fast but they do cost more, and I don't see it as a wow swap anymore.

Not a wow??? Funny, wow was exactly what I said the other day when I got a ride in one. I sorta thought we were going to bounce off of something, and then use the Jeep Cherokee that was in front of us for an alternative way to stop. I didnt know at the time, that the Fiero had also been equipped with Corvette Brakes. :-)

[This message has been edited by Stainless1911 (edited 11-09-2012).]

Is this going in a regular Fiero or a stretched Fiero? Its going to depend on how much room you got, how much power you want ,budjet, and how you will be using the car-( ie-road/drag/street/ect)

Everyone is going to have their own opinions, but go with what you want. Personally I like have something thats different, not a cookie cutter setup like everyone else, but if you decide to go outside the 3800 engine be prepaired to be bashed on.

With the tran's you listed your going to be power limited, and gear ratio limited depending on your engine. If you like the idea of the LS1, and have the room, research going with the L33 5.3l. Its all aluminum, really inexpensive, can be mated with the tran's you listed with a simple adapter plate. If your interested in boost- some guys are pushing these stock block motors over 1000hp, for very little money. I personally have just finished one of these in a classic truck, There is less than a total of $1500 bucks into the junk yard motor with a cheap gt45 ebay turbo, cheap head studs, and a used ZO6 cam, 80lbs injectors, stock H/P tuned ECU. With one dyno tune session we got 577hp/582tq through a built th350 on e85 with 12lbs and very conservertive timing. But with a stock L33 5.3 and one of the trans you listed should be real safe for very little money....

Im currently building a reverse rotation, small twin turbo L33 for my Diablo replica now. I will be right at 660ish on low boost and have the high boost option for next years Texas mile.....

quote Originally posted by diabloroadster: if you decide to go outside the 3800 engine be prepaired to be bashed on. .

I hate when people do that. Its not their car, why should it matter? I say the more swaps the better.

quote Originally posted by weaselbeak: . The 3800 being cheaper or easier to do is beside the point. If easy were the end all, we'd all use the 4.9 Caddy.

very true

i was originally looking to do a v8 its just that they arnt faster then the 3800 1/4 mile i am 39 yrs old and the days of me racing someone over 150 on the road are over so v8 makes no sense to me. it just matters what the person doing the swap wants. i want good gas mileage when driving around but just for braging rights i wanna be able to turn up the boost and take it to the track and if i can get in the low 10's once ill be happy.. engine swaps the person first needs to decide what are they gonna be using this car for? then swap accordingly.

Daily/ fun car I'm hoping to have 11 or 5 inch stretch I would like decent gas mileage

Perhaps you should rethink why you are leaning towards a longitudinal swap. Several years back the president of the local Fiero club here had a SBC /TH425 swap in his Fiero. The install required a special wrap around cradle. With that heavy engine and trans his car weighed in near 3600 lbs, there was no trunk ( all cut out) the car got shitty gas mileage and it wasn't all that fast.With a better engine the car would have been faster but if you saw the amount of welding and fabrication that went into this swap you'd be shocked.

Well I was planning on using a pre-built tubular subframe if I can't get the one I'm planning on using I will try to build my own hopefully I don't have to do that though haha.

quote Originally posted by IVANNATINKLE: I like windy roads and am the kind of guy that would rather have a roots style blower than a turbo.

see i also love the handling of the fiero well.... my fiero anyway i upgraded tires etc a while back and i didnt want to lose the handling by throwing a heavy v8 in the back.

quote Originally posted by 85bluegtma: see i also love the handling of the fiero well.... my fiero anyway i upgraded tires etc a while back and i didnt want to lose the handling by throwing a heavy v8 in the back.

Put some scales to a fully dressed 3800sc and then to a ls4/L33, theres not a whole lot of difference. But I completely understand what your saying, I have had a 3800sc and threw a little money at it and it was a really good power maker. But as mentioned before- hands down the 3800sc's are the best for the money when it comes to a normal Fiero swap depending on the persons skills. But in a longitudial setup I think there just hasnt been enough of them to make a solid choice to say one is better than the other.

After Driving in lot's of fieros

18 of my own

2.5L Duke
2.8L V6
3.4L V6
3.8L 3800SC
4.6L Northstar
4.9L PFI

I'll say this, 2.5 - good for city driving, 2.8 - good for parts to make a 3.4 swap , 3.8SC - best over all package with the most gains of any swap (cheapest, simplest, etc), 4.6 northstar - Nice engine, great power, 4.9 PFI - awesome MPG for a V8 and the torque curve is fantastic.

I personally wouldn't bother with an SBC type swap, there are cheaper swap that would give more power, more speed, and wouldn't push the engine further over to the passenger side with a really think bell housing adaptor...

the only reason "to me" that an SBC in a fiero would make sense is if you had tried all the others and just wanted to "do it", or for the sound.

Horse power is horse power, v8, v6, I4. they can all be made to have the same horse power or torque with modifications.

there are 3 very simple things to think of (in no real order):

1 - Cost (doing it yourself? how much parts are)
2 - "fun factor" (are you going to get tired of it?)
3 - easiness of swap

I have nothing against SBC style swaps, I just prefer to get "more bang for my buck"...I'll probably do one in a fiero some day, but only if I get a reeeeeeeeeaaaaaaally good deal on parts.

quote Originally posted by IVANNATINKLE: I like windy roads and am the kind of guy that would rather have a roots style blower than a turbo.

Based on your last few comments, it sounds like you may be happier with an LSx V8.

I would love the sound of a v8 yes but an LS series motor is just far to much money, I was Lookin into the old 3.8 v8 (aluminum) but ill try to look into the L33 I've never thought of that.

quote Originally posted by IVANNATINKLE: I would love the sound of a v8 yes but an LS series motor is just far to much money, I was Lookin into the old 3.8 v8 (aluminum) but ill try to look into the L33 I've never thought of that.

A low mileage LS4 can be purchased for $1000, or a used cast iron truck engine (4.8, 5.3, 6.0) can be had for $400-$600. Its when you talk about LS1, 2, 3, 6 that things start to get expensive. However, I am not sure you could use your audi transmission with any of these since it doesn't have a transmission mounted starter (like the porsche transmissions) as the LS4 had no engine side starter provision, and the others need a 168 tooth ring gear for the starter to clear the side of the block and the 168 ring gear will not fit within the transmission. Sure you could get creative with an adapter plate about 1 1/2" thick to make it work, but then you are adding length to the overall setup.

quote Originally posted by IVANNATINKLE: I would love the sound of a v8 yes but an LS series motor is just far to much money, I was Lookin into the old 3.8 v8 (aluminum) but ill try to look into the L33 I've never thought of that.

You can even get the 5.3l L33 bored out and use LS1 pistons/rods for a very low budjet LS1.... I got 1 complete L33, a L33 short block, and a complete iron block 5.3 for $800.00 off craigslist.

I'd love to build a LS4 powered notcie.. And a Quad4, and a ECOTEC turbo. All IMSA bodied of course... damn I need to win the lotto!


I guess my point is, all swaps are good. We need more types. I like the VR6 swap and the VW oil burner that is in progress. I think the best swap (for me) would be one that is as light as the duke, but with 400whp. Plus, a proper, smooth-shifting 6MT to go along with it, easy to service, affordable, all with parts readily available. Perfection.... The ECOTEC/F40 is probably the closest to meeting all of those prerequisites.

That's a pretty tall order...

Maybe the Audi s4 motor the twin turbo v6 that way there's no adapter plates needed and its a bad ass sounding motor my only issues would be wiring everything in...

I use my car for every thing that I can pass tech for. Or can enter it in. ( time/location) I go to car shows, drag race it ( I can hear the track from my house) cruzin, drive to work, autocross. I am getting to old to autocross it very well with out PS. I get tired if I go passed the 2nd round in bracket racing. Some nights down here in the summer the track has a 110 heat index. It is ruff on a old guy.

But I NEVER get tired of the look on guys face's when they get a look at the Chevy V8 in my fiero. My son has a 3800Sc fiero. He gets pissed because in many ways his car is a much better preforming car that my car, but at car shows nobody cares what his car can do. My car has a electric exhaust cut out, and a classic big cam idle. His sounds just like a stock 2.8.
right now, in my yard, I have a 3800 II n/a fiero, a 3500 dohc ( lx5) fiero, a stock 2.8 86. Want one? But you can't have my v8 fiero.

What we are doing with our fiero's is called "Automotive ART". and as a ART form, you only have to please your self. You can not, and will not please every body.
Go ride in as many fiero's as you can, Spend the money to go to the fiero's to ride in them. It will be money well spent in the long run.

If you want to drive your car, get a 3800SC, if you want your car to sound good, get a 3800SC with a good stereo. If you want it to sound like a V8, theres a kit I read about here on PFF that makes your car sound like it has a V8, V10 or a V12. lol