Yeah, it's me again with more of the same. I wanted to do a simple oil change (first time doing it myself) and as usual with this car, I quickly encounter a bolt that won't budge. It is not stripped or rusted, just on way too tight. I soaked it in PB Blaster, tapped on the plug with a hammer, put a wrench on it and hammered on the wrench for 15 straight minutes. Ran the car to operating temp to heat it up etc..........nothing works. I tried a pry bar which only sent me flying, as well as the wrench which almost hit me in the head.

It originally took a 15 mm wrench, now it is rounding down to a 14 mm.

In the process a rust flake fell off of the exhaust and into my eye, so I had to take a nice 3 hour break between trying to wash it out, and then having to go to a healthcare facility to have it removed via a cotton swab, and then have my eye irrigated, and then dyed to check for damage. There is a light scratch on the cornea. I also had to get a tetanus shot. Fun stuff

Can't anything ever be easy on this car? ANYTHING? It doesn't matter how simple or hard of a task, you can always add a week onto the estimated time due to a bolt that won't budge, every time!

So what is left to do? Do I just have to take it back to the shop and let them do it since they're the ones who overtightened it last time? I don't have the tools for this crap, I thought an oil change sounded simple enough, I didn't think it'd end up taking days! I should've known better with this car.

[This message has been edited by FieroGTChile87 (edited 01-01-2013).]

Maybe buy a Irwin or Craftsman brand 'bolt out' set. It is a great set to have. You pound it on and put a breaker bar on it and go to town. What we always did was position the breaker bar in a way that a jack could be placed under it and jacked up, thus forcing the weight of the car on it until it came loose. When you get it out, get a new one at the auto store.

Happy new year,

Alex

Thanks sounds like a good investment since I always have this problem with just about everything on this car. I did buy a new plug along with the filter and oil.

I would take it to an oil change place and see if they can do anything with it.

Did you also get a new washer for the drain plug. What happens is that the last person did not use a washer and had to over tightened the drain plug to stop oil leaking from it. I use the one that looks like rubber with small metal washer in the center, it seals good and will allow loosening easily in the future. There are some things that are easy to do on a Fiero, checking tire pressure and putting gas in the tank. Good luck with it.

Find an old socket that fits really tight and hammer it on. Then use a breaker bar or old ratchet with a pipe.

If the socket or bolt out procedures don't work there is another way to loosen the bolt that you might try. If you carefully (and I mean very carefully) use a small chisel and a hammer you can create a notch in the edge of the bolt (again, carefully so as not to damage the oil pan) you can then angle in the chisel and attempt to spin it counterclockwise. I have done this many times with bolts that no longer have a viable hex head to use with a wrench. Whatever you do I wish you luck with your project.

We've seen this problem many times. Most of the time this type of thing happens when you have your oil changed at Jiffy Lube. The chimps that work there use an impact wrench set at 300 ft lbs to put the oil drain plug on. If the hex on the plug is not chewed up just use a 1/2" 8 point socket and a 2 ft breaker bar on it. If the hex is chewed up get a small to medium size Stillson pipe wrench on that plug and it will come right out.

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" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Powerlog manifold, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Flotech Afterburner Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

[This message has been edited by Dennis LaGrua (edited 01-01-2013).]

As a last resort, try a pipe wrench.
Jim

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He who dies with the most toys wins.
2004 White Sebring Convertible
1986 Black Fiero GT

quote Originally posted by jimlong67: As a last resort, try a pipe wrench. Jim

Or a vice-grip, clamped on real tight. Many parts stores sell replacement drain plugs. Sounds like a good time to get one.

I'd follow the advice on the last three posts. I would not pound a socket on as the pan is not that thick and you would probably dent the pan or misshape it. Or it would break the pan gasket seal and you will have oil leaks.

[This message has been edited by Dodgerunner (edited 01-01-2013).]

Likely using wrong/no gasket and over torquing to install.

Most gasket must be replace when oil is change.

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Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.
(Jurassic Park)

The Ogre's Fiero Cave (It's also at the top and bottom of every forum page...)

quote Originally posted by oldbikeracer: Did you also get a new washer for the drain plug. What happens is that the last person did not use a washer and had to over tightened the drain plug to stop oil leaking from it. I use the one that looks like rubber with small metal washer in the center, it seals good and will allow loosening easily in the future. There are some things that are easy to do on a Fiero, checking tire pressure and putting gas in the tank. Good luck with it.

Yes, I did get a washer for it.

And no, even putting gas in the car isn't easy. First off, the gauge is inaccurate so I learned the hard way that I can't let it get down to 1/8 of a tank. My warning is when the fuel pump starts whining and by then I usually don't make it to the gas station. Secondly, the float or whatever is bad so the needle moves along with my rpms, and when I fill the tank, gas often spills out and that's when I know that it is full so basically my tank is never full, as I try to prevent this from happening.

[This message has been edited by FieroGTChile87 (edited 01-01-2013).]

Oh by the way ---SAFETY GLASSES

Honestly I have been there before with oil pan bolts and MANY MANY others. When the thing gets rounded off and nothing else works I find that USUALLY if you take a grinder or file to it and make two large flats on either side of the bolt that snugly fits the largest wrench you can get on it and then put a large piece of pipe over the end of the wrench for a breaker bar that works more often than not. Also when you grind the bolt head like that it heats it up and coupled with some PB blaster it will USUALLY come out. The good news is that worst case scenario you cannot get it out entirely and you either have to drill it out and wind up removing the oil pan completely to ensure no chips get in the oil. With the proper oil drain bolt and gasket it is not necessary to tighten the crap out of it but lots of folks do because they fear losing the bolt and smoking a motor due to losing all the oil while you drive it down the road. I had a Ranger pickup that I was in a hurry and took it to a quick oil change place down in florida. I paid the man and drove away and got maybe a quarter mile down and looked at my oil pressure and it was ZERO!! I pulled over and found the guy stripped out the bolt somehow and it was leaking like a seive and there was hot fresh oil all over the bottom of my car. I called them AWFULLY pissed off and they replaced the entire oil pan and everything and gave me free oil changes for the next forseeable future. I wound up using it for my wifes car and they were always VERY NICE after that but I honestly did not want to go back there again after that. They fired the guy who did the screwup immediately and towed my car back to the shop. LOL Pinheads....peace

Pete

quote Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: We've seen this problem many times. Most of the time this type of thing happens when you have your oil changed at Jiffy Lube. The chimps that work there use an impact wrench set at 300 ft lbs to put the oil drain plug on. If the hex on the plug is not chewed up just use a 1/2" 8 point socket and a 2 ft breaker bar on it. If the hex is chewed up get a small to medium size Stillson pipe wrench on that plug and it will come right out.

We were all chimps once (:-)

Just saying. I can still remember the time I did not properly torque lug nuts. Won't do that again....

I agree that we are all chimps at some time but when you go to a 'professional' facility you expect that the person working on your car will at least be trained.
There was a time when people that were not qualified worked under the guidance of a time served person and served an apprenticeship to become trained.
These days it seems that the possession of an opposable thumb qualifies as being 'trained' in a lot of places.

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Anything I might say is probably worth what you paid for it, so treat it accordingly!

Dave

www.ltlfrari.com

quote Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: We've seen this problem many times. Most of the time this type of thing happens when you have your oil changed at Jiffy Lube. The chimps that work there use an impact wrench set at 300 ft lbs to put the oil drain plug on. If the hex on the plug is not chewed up just use a 1/2" 8 point socket and a 2 ft breaker bar on it. If the hex is chewed up get a small to medium size Stillson pipe wrench on that plug and it will come right out.

Sorry, but that just isn't true. Having worked at several oil change places, I have never seen anyone use any kind of power tool for a drain plug. Sometimes a guy brings out his Hulk arms, but never a power tool.

quote Originally posted by BlackEmrald: Sorry, but that just isn't true. Having worked at several oil change places, I have never seen anyone use any kind of power tool for a drain plug. Sometimes a guy brings out his Hulk arms, but never a power tool.

Using manual tools takes too long to remove the oil drain plug. . In my neck of the woods they do use impact tools to remove but who knows what to tighten. . Jiffy Lube is exactly that. Done in a Jiffy. If those oil pan drain plugs are being tighened with just a socket wrench I doubt that the problem would be so widespread. It must be pointed out that since the plugs have loads of oil on them, it is so easy to over torque them. With all respect to the good people that work at Jiffy Lube, they employ more than their fair share of dummies.

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" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Powerlog manifold, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Flotech Afterburner Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

quote Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: Using manual tools takes too long to remove the oil drain plug. . In my neck of the woods they do use impact tools to remove but who knows what to tighten. . Jiffy Lube is exactly that. Done in a Jiffy. If those oil pan drain plugs are being tighened with just a socket wrench I doubt that the problem would be so widespread. It must be pointed out that since the plugs have loads of oil on them, it is so easy to over torque them. With all respect to the good people that work at Jiffy Lube, they employ more than their fair share of dummies.

Unfortunately, I must respectfully disagree once again. Having spend many MANY hours in the pit dropping oil, I could (can) remove, drain, reinstall at torque, and change the filter in ~3 minutes, with only hand tools. I know the time, because we were timed. Standing while you do this, you can get a lot more leverage, so I am not surprised many DIY'ers can't get the plug at the angle they can access it (usually on their back)

Bringing this back on topic, I suggested the OP take it to an oil change place because it wasn't uncommon for someone to bring their car in because they could not remove the plug. There are plenty ways of removing stubborn plugs, and any oil change place will have specialized tools specifically for this, as well as new plugs on hand. If the OP does take his car to such a place, if they don't charge (or really even if they do) flip the guys who worked on it a few bucks. It goes a long way to ensure you get better than average service.

Wow i have never heard of people using an impact to change oil.

Well, either an impact was used on my oil plug, or they welded the thing on.

It soaked in PB Blaster for 2 nights, I drove the car to operating temperature then shut it off and got it on jackstands. I used a pipe wrench , would not budge. Then I held a heating gun to it for 10 minutes and then tried the pipe wrench again, no luck. I also tried pulling with all my might and ended up hurting myself when the wrench let go and went flying.

I could start buying tools, but I'm getting tired of doing that. I am trying to fix things myself to save money and always end up spending more in the process of buying tools just to get stubborn bolts to come loose with every project that I try, no matter how simple. I know it pays off in the long run because then you have the tools to use next time, but I am just getting frustrated. An oil change should take 30 minutes, not a week.

For the record, I have never had any success with PB Blaster on this car, I have used the product countless times and it never led to breaking any of the stubborn bolts loose.

I think I'm going to try one more time and if I don't succeed, I'll take it to the shop.

[This message has been edited by FieroGTChile87 (edited 01-02-2013).]

You might try this. Drill a hole in it and thread the hole for a smaller bolt. Find a sealing washer for the smaller bolt and use it to change oil in the future. It sounds like you will ruin the threads in the oil pan if you do succeed in getting it out. Be careful while drilling it out remove the drill bit often and clean any metal shavings from the hole you are drilling. When you tap it out smear the tap with grease to catch the metal shaving and remove the tap often to clean any metal shavings from it. Darn wish you were in South Georgia I could drill that bugger out for you. Also you can purchase oversized self taping drain plugs to repair if you do strip the thread in the pan, again smear with grease and remove often to clear metal shavings. If you have a car friendly machine shop locally try them these guys are usually well versed in removing stubborn bolts. Sounds like putting gas in is not a problem, just knowing when to do it is your problem. Good luck with it, a little taste of Southern Comfort goes a long way in helping frustration.

I think Id use a pipe wrench. Since that didnt work drill it out and use an EZ out if you can find one small enough that wont break.

There are lots to choose from:

http://www.bing.com/images/...or&sc=8-14&sp=-1&sk=

This looks pretty cool:

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 01-02-2013).]

I typically change the oil in our vehicles.
Unfortunately, it's not just Jiffy Lube. It was a Chevy dealer also. Years ago we had our (new) 95 conversion van in for some warranty service and while it was there, (selling dealer), I told them to change the oil. Well, when I went to change the oil next time; 4200 miles and 4½ monthes later, the plug was cross threaded. Took it back and obviously they said that they didn't do it and it must've been done by someone else. Being that I always do my own service you know who they were saying did it without saying it. Luckly my brother-in-law is top service advisor at a Chevy dealer, he covered it under warranty. New oil pan.
That's why I choose to do what I can myself. I know it get's done right.

quote Originally posted by FieroGTChile87: Well, either an impact was used on my oil plug, or they welded the thing on. It soaked in PB Blaster for 2 nights, I drove the car to operating temperature then shut it off and got it on jackstands. I used a pipe wrench , would not budge. Then I held a heating gun to it for 10 minutes and then tried the pipe wrench again, no luck. I also tried pulling with all my might and ended up hurting myself when the wrench let go and went flying. I could start buying tools, but I'm getting tired of doing that. I am trying to fix things myself to save money and always end up spending more in the process of buying tools just to get stubborn bolts to come loose with every project that I try, no matter how simple. I know it pays off in the long run because then you have the tools to use next time, but I am just getting frustrated. An oil change should take 30 minutes, not a week.

You sound young. Don't be offended but are you using the "lefty-loosie, righty-tighty" rule? Even knowing this, you can get it backwards when at an odd angle. Also, are you sure you're on the right bolt? Can you take a pic of which one you are turning for us just to be sure? Maybe what you think is the drain plug is something different that is SUPPOSED to be torqued down hard.

Jonathan

Quickly heat the plug red hot with an oxy-fuel torch, then use a pre-set pipe wrench on it immediately, before it has a chance to cool. Just barely crack it, don't unscrew. Once it cracks loose, let it cool before unscrewing.
Make sure to have water or a fire extinguisher handy, as flaming oil dripping out is a possibility.
If the head is too far gone, weld a larger nut onto it. If you're lucky, the weld heat will be enough.
Heat works on virtually any stuck fastener, far better than anything else, because above 1000°, rust becomes a lubricant.

Note also that a sudden snapping pull on the wrench is much, much more effective than a steady pull for loosening tight fasteners.

[This message has been edited by Tekwiz (edited 01-02-2013).]

I don't know about Jiffy Lube in particular, but some dealers and shops do use air tools. I've seen it.

this sounds more like they cross threded it

Oil changing is one of the lowest skill levels for mechanic work and at quick oil change shops new hires with little to no experience perform the duty. These are the individuals that try to loosen and tighten drain plugs with pliers and have no concept of torque. I recall an incident where a beginning mechanic complained that two studs broke off a near brand new car, while he was putting the lugs back on. The problem, the guy was about 6' 3", 300 lbs, sharp as Gomer Pyle and didn't realize he was supposed to stop twisting when the torque wrench clicked. He didn't have the presence of mind to think anything was wrong as the nuts tightened before the studs broke. The pros with their high performance air ratchets ruin drain plugs also.

That plug is cross threaded for sure and it sounds like the threaded plate may break loose from the pan if you manage to get a good grip on it. It's probably not a bad idea to go ahead and get a replacement and be done with it for piece of mind with future oil changes.

Your other option is to suck the old oil out of the dipstick tube (I use a Topside oil changer...it's made for changing oil on boats).

I bought this gadget for draining trans oil out of the dipstick tube, but it also works well on a couple of cars I work on that I can't get the drain plugs off.

I recall this thing costing about $20, but there are probably other ways to pump the oil out of the dipstick tube.

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These work wonders for me.
they bite into the rounded head of the bolt as your try to remove the bolt.
the more pressure you put on the bolt the more this socket bites into the head of the rounded bolt.

not to state the obvious or sound arrogant etc etc - are you turning the oil plug the anti clockwise? LOL

I have found in the past with stubborn bolts that just a little nip clockwise (as if youre tightnening up) will sometimes "break its seizure" and will then undo.

good luck
jon m