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3400 tdc by Philphine
Started on: 11-12-2000 07:26 PM
Replies: 9
Last post by: Philphine on 11-14-2000 02:44 AM
Philphine
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Report this Post11-12-2000 07:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PhilphineSend a Private Message to PhilphineDirect Link to This Post

this is the engine i want to try swapping to if i'm able. read all the old post and found a web page on it and it seems the most doable of the engines i'd like. some things i'm wondering are:

i read that the engine was detuned for tranny reliability concerns. anybody know anything about this and/or how to get that hp back. i read it was actually emissions rated(?) at about 285hp. i think i could be happy with that (after 92hp..are you kidding?).

also any info on just how the hinge, strut tower and/or any other engine bay mods are done to fit the engine.

i guess i should also go for a '92-'95 engine to avoid obdII (joking before terry. i understood a little. enough to help me at least).

i found that 3.4 tdc web ring so i'll study it too. any thing yall can tell me, i'm receptive. thanks for any help.

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Phil T

'87 coupe (feral)
'84 indy
'84 coupe (cheap thrill)

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Black88GT
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Report this Post11-12-2000 07:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Black88GTSend a Private Message to Black88GTDirect Link to This Post
I think most people go with the 3.8 instead of the 3.4 TDC. I have heard they are both equal in terms of difficulty, but the 3.8 has the cheap advantage, and parts are easier to get for the 3.8. I like the 3.4 TDC though, it seems like a nice engine. I don't know about 285 Hp though, I think stock it was 210 or 215. Thats a lot of down tuning! lol. Its your call...

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Jeff
'88 GT t-top 3.4
Baltimore, MD

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count_iblis
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Report this Post11-12-2000 08:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for count_iblisSend a Private Message to count_iblisDirect Link to This Post
hey phiphine, I thought about long and hard today and I was going to go with a 3.1 my mechanic had in his garage, but like I said I have spent the whole day in the forum here reading up on the 3.4 camaro engine and if i find one cheap enough I will let my mechanic install it.


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COUNTIBLIS
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Wannabe
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Report this Post11-13-2000 09:06 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WannabeSend a Private Message to WannabeDirect Link to This Post
It's not likely you will pick up 70hp on the TDC just by tuning, although there have been some rumors that this is the case. It it were tru though, there are a couple of companies that have put some serious effort into improving this engine and I'd be very surprised if they din't try to take advantage of something so simple to change. Most likely, the "de-tuning" happened witt the camshafts. Just the same, when you drop the TDC into the Fiero, you get a much less restrictive exhause and intake that should be worth about an extra 20hp together.
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1FST2M6
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Report this Post11-13-2000 09:18 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 1FST2M6Click Here to visit 1FST2M6's HomePageSend a Private Message to 1FST2M6Direct Link to This Post
contact msweldom he just this weekend picked up his new 3.4 TDC. the two of us are gunna jump into that head first here shortly.. i'm sure we'll keep you posted on our broken fingers and banged heads. mweldon@kennesaw.lawco.com ( Marc )

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"Fondue forks for everybody"

[This message has been edited by 1FST2M6 (edited 11-13-2000).]

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msweldon
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Report this Post11-13-2000 02:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for msweldonSend a Private Message to msweldonDirect Link to This Post
1FST2M6 is correct...

I just trucked a 96' 3.4 DOHC up from FL this weekend. I'll try to give as much information to your questions as possible.
Everthing below is from research I've done over the last 6 months or so on the DOHC swap and have found out from Micheal Smith and terryk out in California, 3400fiero and lowcg.

getting the 285hp back will cost some dough...
Yes, from what I've been able to ascertain, "most" of the detuning was in the CAM's. Eglin has mentioned that they may be able to do a grind job on them, due to "no one" making a performance grind on that cam. The lifters "may" be able to take up the slack of a grind job, but if not, your going to have to purchase aftermarket ones for $20 X 24, ouch..

Micheals DOHC had the revlimiter removed but started to valve float at 7200 rpm. I'm sure the factory springs weren't intended for that level of reving. I heard someone mention a properly tuned DOHC revving to 7800 rpm !!!! some time ago. May have been in a W-Body however...

As I'm just getting into the swap, and I'm no gifted mechanic(software engineer), the right deck hinge needs to be trimmed, removing the hinge spring. This can be remedied with Rodney dickmans deck-lid struts.

There are a few mods and gotchas primarily hoses and cables, throttle, coolant, etc... I'm still researching the 3.4DOCH swap kit from ACE to determine whether its really necessary or not.

The biggest concern and issue is the ECM and harness. The fiero computer has no chance at running the DOHC, so break out the wiring diagrams for both cars. the 96' & 97' DOHC is OBD II while the 92' - 95' are OBD I. As per Micheal Smith's recomendation I'm going to use a 93' stickshift ECM to run the 96 engine with a memcal soldered on to allow chip programability(thanks terryk & micheal!!) to keep the stock gauges and remove the revlimiter.

The 96' DOHC is rated 220hp and 220ft/lbs at the crank,10hp and 5ft/lbs respectively, over the previous engines due primarily to modified intake runners and the MASSIVE OVAL exhaust ports in the block, approx. 2.5" wide!!

Expect the typical maintenance with the timing belt.

If your going with a manual, stay with the 282 tranny, they may not be "rated" for that much torque, but the 284 is STOOOOPID impossible to get parts for, much less locate one still intact, trust me, I researched it over and over and verified it with Micheal Smith, they don't make parts for the 284, period, zip, zilch, zero, remanufacturing through Getrag is the "only" option. You can replace the 282 two to three times over for what it costs to rebuild a 284. Plus the 284 has taller gearing for economy. We don't put 220hp engines in fieros for economy...do we...

I'm also going to take the time and do it right at the flywheel and purchase an aluminum 88GT flywheel and kevlar clutch from FieroDave. Should be a nice rev machine when completed.

Strut tower: That's where ACE's kit looks attractive, I've talked him out of the wiring harness work on his kit down to $1300, but that's still a chunk'o change. His kit includes provisions for properly mounted strut mounts, hoses and fuel lines. I'll try and talk to Chris West about his strut setup too. I'll try and mention to ACE the kit less the motor mounts and cradle bushings and see what I can get the cost down to.

I'm trying to document this swap as best as I can and add it to the fiero.cc/fiero-tdc site for everyone here. I'm not one to jump head-first into anything so I'm sure I'll be holding 1FST2M6 back at every corner he helps me on...

hope this helps...

marc


[This message has been edited by msweldon (edited 11-13-2000).]

[This message has been edited by msweldon (edited 11-13-2000).]

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william_thorniii
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Report this Post11-13-2000 02:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for william_thorniiiSend a Private Message to william_thorniiiDirect Link to This Post
Marc,

That post got me much too excited while at work! Let me know if I can help out. I need a few days off of work anyway.

William T. Thorn, III

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olympic
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Report this Post11-13-2000 03:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for olympicSend a Private Message to olympicDirect Link to This Post
I can believe that GM detuned the 3.4 down from 280 hp to help the tranny last. Ford did the same thing with the 3.0l SHO. Yamaha delivered the SHO engine to Ford producing 300 hp at the crank. Ford detuned this with a restrictive intake, exhaust and some other stuff down to 220hp. The SHO is also rev limited at about 7200rpm but that is only to protect the accessories. This engine has run continuously at 10,000 rpm + for several hours without damage. HP drops off dramatically after 6700 rpm though because it was never designed to run much over 7000.
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msweldon
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Report this Post11-13-2000 04:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for msweldonSend a Private Message to msweldonDirect Link to This Post
I'm not necessarily a GM or Ford fan, just a mid-engine freak...

The 3.0L SHO is "A MARVEL OF AN ENGINE" as it came from Yamaha. Essentially, from what I've researched and driven of a taurus SHO, it displayed the same reving characteristics of a Yamaha bike engine, just a butt-load more displacement. Hell, a 93 RX7 TT I drove could only rev to 9500, not bad for a reciprocating v6...

Too bad its a bit more complicated swap than I'm willing to deal with, it was my first choice until I learned of the ford/gm swap difficulties and of the 3.4DOHC.

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Philphine
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Report this Post11-14-2000 02:44 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PhilphineSend a Private Message to PhilphineDirect Link to This Post
thanks for all the info so far. the only thing i can bounce back for now is that i wanted to go with a 4:10 manual tranny i just got. im thinking it will help make up for the lower torque the 4 cam supposivly has at lower rpms, and that since the 4cam revs higer it will make up for the lower gearing of the tranny. dose that sound logical?

since i'm starting with a 4 cyl fiero is there any thing i should be looking out for that i may need and would have been on a v6? i guess like motor mounts or some thing? will an '84 cradle be ok
(got it with the tranny) or do i need one from the v6 years? i'm going to try this swap on an '87 but i want to have another cradle to do the work on and swap the whole thing, hoping for less down time. if i came across an '88 cradle would it be worth the extra trouble to swap it in too? last (for the moment) my'87 is a 5 speed, do i need the ecm for the 4 speed tranny or mine for the '87 electronics to go with the 4cam one?

trying to do my sponge imitation and soak in all i can.

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