For some of you who didn't get a chance to find out about this book under "Finally on the internet" Heres the scoop! I've been working on this book for 12 years, some people new it was going to come out, but didn't know when. I really didn't want alot of people knowing about it until I was getting close to being done, so there wouldn't be added pressure to rush it and NOT have a accurate and detailed book. The book is only about 1988 T-top fieros called "Preserving open air excitement" I'm about 89% done but I need the fiero peoples help
I enclosed 91 Vin's that I need before I can finish the book, I need to know the model, color and options of these. Hopefully you might own or know of these cars and can help.Don't worry anyone who helps will be given full credit and acknowledge in the book, also if you think you have anything rare, paper wise and would like to see it in there to make this book complete, please send it to me. I already had the stuff listed on the fiero t-top registry page before it came out , (so need to send any of that stuff) I received tons of stuff from Phil E. Edwards in the late 80's when he was C&C's vice president and Skylite Sunoof, but sometimes there just might be that piece thats missing even news articles. My e-mail if you know of someone who might have something is podziemj@matc.edu or they can reach me at 1-414-817-8038. One last thing before I list the last six digit vin's. Let me tell you a little about the book. I have bids from three printing firms right now, to be printed in soft cover(hard cover way to much) almost like the Brooklyn book that's out there (the one with the 88 red GT and all the magizine articles) you will truely enjoy this book if you are a t-top owner, it will have color breakdowns of each model, tell you the rarest colors,options and interiors. Rare literature that was sent to the dealers, Press releases and service bulletins on water leaks, 3 different t-top assembly and shop manual, shipping logs and charts. Detailed documents from Phil E. Edwards about the Fiero T-TOP program. Which t-top model will be worth the most, plus news and magizine articles and much much more. This book has been in the working long enough, help me get this done! With so much information in this book I believe this book will be heavily looked upon by collectors and enthusiasts as the most documented account of the 1988 T-TOP FIERO. Here are the vin's
200601 208411 208494 209643 208352
209690 210256 210870 210766 211089
211251 211970 212084 212357 212912
213106 212964 213183 213370 213461
213972 213960 213930 213826 214006
215345 216354 216913 217686 217697
217526 217696 217906 217901 218629
218704 218898 219053 218967 219320
219425 219472 219824 219838 219688 219996 220089 220272 220625 220631 220785 220831 220720 221153 221244 221059 221193 221455 221457 221783 221841 221867 222014 221927 221948 222186 222196 222947 222878 222915 223011 224013 224154 224186 224103 224374 224448 224556 224669 225113 224903 224879 225064 225101 225020 225628 225824 225983 225887 225954 225651
Thank you,

Ok, I still say it's bad form to join the Forum just to sell stuff. I've seen a bunch of people do that and may be been quick to judge.

I have to agree with Aus, though. Get the T-top history before 88 as well to get the full picture.

[This message has been edited by Formula88 (edited 07-03-2001).]

I'm sure some people will be willing to help you, I don't think it's rude or anything, this isn't exactly a house, it's a Fiero community and everyone is welcome.
Mike Schaefer http://surf.to/fiero

The Podziemski's (John & Tom....I think), while new to this forum have been active in Fieros for ages. I don't think it is out of line for them to ask for help gathering the info on the remaining T-Top Fieros.....especially for a worthwhile project.

I might have some info of a few of them......I'll have to check.

See this is the kind of attitude from people I don't understand, someone takes 12 years of his life to help keep the history of the fiero alive and someone always has to bad mouth it. Maybe this is another reason Pontiac doesn't want anything to do with the Fiero community! The message isn't a sales ad it's to help get the message out. But I get it, you rather have some stiff shirt who doesn't know a thing about fieros or even own a fiero for that matter, write a book witch YOU WILL END UP BUYING and I'D BET MONEY YOU WOULD BE THE FIRST ONE TO SAY: DID YOU READ THE LATEST FIERO BOOK UNTITLED "WHATEVER" THIS WAS WRONG! THAT WAS WRONG! WHERE DID HE DO HIS HOMEWORK! I'm sorry to all the Fiero people on this forum, but to you sir, I THINK YOUR WRONG! Fiero people in my opinion should work together for the love of the car anyway possible NOT shoot it down and think This guy must have some kind of angle ,Let's Blast Him on the internet!

I don't see anything wrong with it either.

The first thing people do when they get to this forum is often times ask for help, whether it be for a code 32 or a part needed or whatever. This guy is no different. Helping people out is what I thought this forum was all about. I guess some people don't feel that way....

BTW, mine is 225040. It's a Black GT, beechwood interior, gold wheels, P/W, PDL, P/M, cruise, a/c, 5 speed, think thats it.

John,

Have you been in contact with John Wilhoff?
His Forum name is "88 Database Guy".
He's been attempting, for several years, to document EVERY 88.
You and he should compare notes. Sorry I don't have his email addy.

------------------
Raydar - aka Steve

Black 88 Formula.
Red 88 Duke coupe. "The Project"
88 Formula parts car. "The Donor"

Why the big thing about the 88 T-Tops anyway. I see many people refer to them as factory fitted. They was a factory option yes, but only 2 years after C&C had already been fitting t-tops to Fieros. Yes they are a different style and carry a factory code on the sticker to identify them but I really don't see how they are bumped up in rarity for instance over say my own t-top car that has had the tops since new in 86 1/2. Yes, a dealer option fitted at C&C as apposed to an 88 factory option. Many dealers offered t-tops as an option long before Pontiac decided too. Isn't that more significantly important history wise than Pontiacs 18 months of umming and ahhhing whether to do it. Pontiac missed the boat.

I think a book on 88 T-top cars only is very bias personally. How about some recognition for some of the first cars C&C fitted tops too because they are certainly a whole lot rarer and when it boils down to it. C&C fitted all the tops anyway, exluding ones fitted to cars now, off wrecked t-top cars and NOS aftermarket kits and the odd shipped kit they sent out to other dealers to fit when logistics of distance prevented it being done at the C&C factory.

I know my 86 1/2 GT has one of the first sets ever fitted, but mention it in a thread about 88 t-top cars and it gets treated like it is nothing in rarity compared to them.

Just my 2 cents worth anyway, but personally I think if you are going to do a book on t-top Fieros do the full history, not 1 year model.

Disclaimer
---------------------------------------------
I have nothing against t-top owners of other models, only people that will sell yet another book about Fieros that doesn't cover the full subject matter. Preserving Open Air Excitement as a title yet your going to leave the first 18 months of t-top history out. Maybe you should title it Preserving Open Air Excitement - The fragmented editted facts. I really don't see that as being a historical round up of t-top cars but rather an innacurate ego trip for 88 model t-top cars. Again, nothing against the 88 guys, I want one too but if history is to be written, write all of it, not the dieing stages of it.
________________________________________

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My Fiero
Need a Subwoofer Console or Speaker Door Pods?

The bottom line is, '88 had a option code and was technically "factory", and pre-88 did not. Pre-88 t-tops are treated as any aftermarket dealer addition. '88 t-tops are more like yellow '88s or '84 Indy's.

Sorry it worked out that way, but thats the way it is. I have nothing against pre-88 t-tops either.

John,

What is the distinction of the 91 numbers you've selected? Mine is not one of your pre-selected numbers, however if you need any info please don't hesitate to ask me...

I'll be looking forward to your book. Thanks for your effort.

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Tennessee Fiero Owners

Oh Sorry, I posted my VIN because I thought you wanted peoples VINs who werent listed. I thought it was weird since I had registered with Ray Paulk hehe. Anyway good luck I will keep my eye out.

quote Originally posted by Black88GT: The bottom line is, '88 had a option code and was technically "factory", and pre-88 did not. Pre-88 t-tops are treated as any aftermarket dealer addition. '88 t-tops are more like yellow '88s or '84 Indy's. Sorry it worked out that way, but thats the way it is. I have nothing against pre-88 t-tops either.

Yeah I know that Black. I have nothing against them either. Just figured if this guy is writing a book on the history of the things why start with the history at the end of the story rather than the beginning. If he spoke to the guy who ran C&C surely he should have a wealth of information on the origins as apposed to hey look the factory put an option code on the 88s so thats all there was.

My own dream is to own a factory optioned 88 t-topped car also, just peeves me to see the real history of them get ignored in something that is going into print and will be read by people not in the know on the whole subject. They will think 88 Fieros only came with the things. Well unless his book has a history on the whole thing, but it certainly hasnt been presented that way.

Example: How is it history if it doesn't cover C&Cs push for 18 months to get GM to use their tops or show cars with the original design fitted. Is C&Cs downfall covered, they are an important part of this historical story? Why is Fairmont Skylights mentioned? They bought the remaining stocks off the liquidated C&C and Fieros were no longer being produced. So any information from them is irrelevant.

Just trying to point out the history is being missed totally but a company not even involved with their inception can rate a mention.

Doesn't bother me either way really but it was a good enough reason for a rant, I don't do that often

[This message has been edited by AusFiero (edited 07-02-2001).]

i think the only reason 88's get books made for them is becuase there is records on which ones have the option. this guy wants the ones that were recorded as a factory option. which would leave out any 88's that had the dealer send them to C&C to be done. i know someone who has a red formula with ttops. he was upset when he realized it wasnt the "factory" option. i say who cares if its factory. its ttops. not to mention he payed 2200 for it and it only has 44k miles. he got a hell of a deal if you ask me.

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JOEJOE Aol:SSFiero

88FORMULA
SSFiero@Aol.com

"Kids in the backseat cause accidents, accidents in the backseat caused me!!"

Here is my 88 coupe # 210920. It was number 95 converted in 88. I hope I can help out is some way. I love this car and I try to collect as much about the 88 ttop as possible. I cant wait for you book.

Rob

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qwikgta@yahoo.com
88 T-Top coupe, 65K, Header no Cat, 16" GTZ rims, short shifter, swaybar, open element air cleaner, hood vents.
http://robsfieroproject.homestead.com/index.html
http://vafiero.com

quote Originally posted by qwikgta: Here is my 88 coupe # 210920. It was number 95 converted in 88. I hope I can help out is some way. I love this car and I try to collect as much about the 88 ttop as possible. I cant wait for you book. Rob

And I love your GTZ wheels! I wish I could find a set of those!

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Tennessee Fiero Owners

Hey John, looking forward to buying the book. If you are going to add more vins since the book isn't completed yet:

VIN#: 1G2PG1197JP215109
GT, Bright Red/Beechwood int., 5-spd Getrag, leather seats, spoiler, T-tops, rear defrost, AC, cruise, tilt, PM, PL, PW

quote Originally posted by KissMySSFiero: i think the only reason 88's get books made for them is becuase there is records on which ones have the option. this guy wants the ones that were recorded as a factory option. which would leave out any 88's that had the dealer send them to C&C to be done.

That just clarified what I have been trying to say. My car was also sent from the dealer to C&C. C&C would have had records of all tops they fitted. Why leave out the earlier ones when the only real difference beside the slight style differences is a sticker on the front fenderwell. Or do more research and find which dealers sent cars out before the factory gave the go ahead to put it on the option sticker. All this information is available if he digs deep enough. Well was before C&C closed, and he spoke to the guy he says.

Wouldn't say anything at all if he makes the book title 88 Fiero Factory Optioned T-Top book rather than a misleading Open Air title which will sucker many into buying it looking for info on the history of the t-tops. Information his book is not going to provide (assumption, from how it was presented). He even says above it will have all the options etc etc on cars fitted with the tops. ALL being the operative very misleading word. It isn't going to tell me nothing about the options on my car which was still purchased brand new with t-tops.

In fact the history before GM pulled their finger out on the things is probably a better read than getting a book loaded up with info already sitting all over the internet anyway.

I also noticed a which Fieros will be worth the most section...uummmm impossible to gauge on any car with so many variables. I know of a 1969 TA Convertible for $175,000 and another for $35,000. Who gauged that? I know my 86 1/2 GT with one of the first ever sets fitted is rarer than any 88 yellow GT, will his book reflect stuff like that in valuations? I bet not.

Then there is always that ever present threat of legal action when he publishes someones VIN number and car options (excluding written witnessed and signed persmission from each and every owner). Might as well call it lets steal an 88 Fiero with t-tops book because car thieves, pros, a VIN would all they would need to trace the car to its present location and go shopping at will.

And I am pretty sure 88 GTs with t-tops and low mileage are becoming very desirable items to steal.

The title must have the words 1988 in it before it has any creedance as an accurate repesentation of the content as apposed to what the title and description is suggesting currently. A full history is mentioned numerous times yet the end says it will be a history of 88s. Conridictions and a lack of early information will not make for a good book about t-tops. The title is very misleading unless 1988 is inserted into it.

My whole point was and still is what is the point of a historical book that doesn't even cover half the story in detail. Change the title to have 1988 in it and it will. Yes it is a great idea. But I don't want to be one of the ones to buy a book of Amazon advertised as a great Fiero t-top guide to actually find I shelled out my bucks for a great 88 Fiero guide with no information about my t-tops or about how the open air excitement came about.

I could suggest a few GM executives that have some great stories to tell about the big picture surrounding the tops and the inhouse battles in GM to allow it to happen. Have they been talked too?

------------------

My Fiero
Need a Subwoofer Console or Speaker Door Pods?

Sorry to long to reply, I'm only on the computer from 6 am to 4 pm
Mr. Fiero-thanks for your support and yes you are talking to the Podziemski
Raydar-I got John Wilhoff e-mail but he doesn't have anything on these 91 vin's but thank for the info!
Songman-There is no distinction of these 91 vin's, they are simply the only ones left that I don't have of the 1252 ship thru program and thanks for you input!
KissMySS Fiero-When I started this project 12 years ago, I was doing it for me, but as years went by and going to fiero shows and people asking what are you writting down and I would show them what I had they would tell me, Fiero people should know this stuff and as the year went on I thought it would be selfish to hold this information to my self.
Now the problem about people realizing they don't have a factory option T-roof and getting upset! I can kind of agree with you it's still a 88, but I can also agree with the person who is mislead that their purchasing a factory one and it's not. Over the last 3 to 4 year I would say a scam if you want to call it that, has been happening where people are installing or finding after installed 88's saying their FACTORY getting top dollar! That is really WRONG and I hope this book will finally stop this with the Vin's listed. Another scam kinda like this happened to another Pontiac car The GTO Judge They found out that just as many Judges were around today, as when they were produced people were scamming people saying they were real paying top dollar as well, until the production vin's were printed now you don't here about this problem now!
Qwikgta-thanks for your support
Kelvin Vivian-thank you as well!
and Lastly AusFiero-I don't know, I hope some of the explainations above answers some of your questions. But I will tell you this because you have taken such a negitive stand on this, I noticed my e-mails have tripled and this is WRONG! Wrong how you may ask? Basically your driving Fiero owners underground, where now instead of sharing ideas and information (which this forum is about or how I understood it) they are e-mailing me directly an not sharing info with others and thats a SHAME! One last thing the e-mails I got a couple suggestions I only sell the book only to the 1252 factory T-top owners. Like Tim Perrigo the letter read: each owner should have to verify their Vin with you and then they would be able to get this book, just like Tim did with the factory T-top warranty cards he had. Is that what you want this to turn into, so it won't be misleading. This is truly getting out of hand!

I think that the bottom line is that there are a number of people who feel that those of us who own '88 T-top cars (I have two) are some kind of Fiero Elitist pigs.

That's not true. we value ALL Fieros and consider all Fiero onwers to be equally right to have pride in their ride.

I would be equally happy to give any info I had to someone inspired enough to try to document all the "non-factory" t-top cars...Up for Aus? (BTW, hope you're feeling better)

I know of several registery sites out there for Indys, T-tops, etc.

Let's try to be more suportive.

John, My cars are both in the T-Top Registery but one of them has an interesting history. It is 213284. I found it in the wrecking yard sitting perched on top of 3 other fieros. I paid $350 for it and an additional $150 for the T-Top Glass. I have since had the frame straightened and am in the process of rebuilding/customizing it. I have pictures of the rescue attempt from the wrecking yard available if you are interested.

Jon i'll take one when there done! Also to all that have such a negitive outlook on what jon is doing needs to get a life!!! Some of you people don't even NO him and your bad mouthing him for what he's doing for us fiero owners, I don't have a 88T-Top but i will still buy one of his books! Because i want to learn as much as possible about the t-tops cars. I you don't have anything nice to say DON'T SAY ANYTHING!!! MY $.02 CENTS

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BLACK85GT 3800V6 2"DROP, FLUSHMOUNT HEADLIGHTS AND WRAPAROUND WING

Firstly I feel you have misunderstood my point and secondly no you did not answer any question I raised about putting the history of how the t-tops came about in your book. I feel a book about t-tops on Fieros is a great idea but just like many other t-top information sites, books, etc you are shunning cars that were the reason the 88s got t-tops in the first place. When lots of sources start totally ignoring the fact that dealers were fitting the t-tops earlier than 88 history will get muddled and lost with time as it does when the full facts are not given about something. Of course the earlier cars could not be fully traced now due to the demise of C&C but they do at least deserve a mention as do some of the dealers with the hindsight to be fitting the tops before GM would.

Are you at least devoting a chapter/couple of paragraphs to the history of the t-tops and when dealers actually started fitting them as apposed to the factory option ?

Fine gove a huge rundown on options etc for 88s as it is easier to get hold of and has a checkable history. But the earlier cars and dealers do not deserve to be just deleted from history without a mention. Pontiac does enough of that now about the Fiero in general without the rest of its history getting muddled.

All I am asking you to do is write the complete facts, even if the history section is brief. Or have the words 1988 prominently displayed on the cover to stop people buying it that are after a complete history not just 1988.

As for driving Fiero owners underground I think you should hang around a while and you will see that driving anyone underground in this forum would take a whole lot more than an opinion. We all have opinions and forums are about voicing them. We all do that here. Also ask around the forum and see who I have driven underground with anything I have ever posted in my 500 plus messages.

My e-mail if you know of someone who might have something is podziemj@matc.edu or they can reach me at 1-414-817-8038.

Did you think maybe thats why people are e-mailing you rather than posting on the forum. A very rash statement when you requested email contact with people rather than a direct request for replies on the thread.

As for out of hand this thread is very in control, no profanity, just suggestions and opinions. Look around at a few more threads and perhaps you will see that is what this place is all about. You will also get to see what most would classify as the out of control posts. I am not going to just shut up because you don't like my opinions on history getting shortened yet again. Personally I listen to opinions in any post, analize them, learn how people tick from them to better understand the broader communites wants. In this case a Fiero community. You have probably noticed I have replied to opinions voiced about my opinions, again that is the whole point of a forum, exchange ideas, opinions and information.

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My Fiero
Need a Subwoofer Console or Speaker Door Pods?

quote Originally posted by KEV: Jon i'll take one when there done! Also to all that have such a negitive outlook on what jon is doing needs to get a life!!! Some of you people don't even NO him and your bad mouthing him for what he's doing for us fiero owners, I don't have a 88T-Top but i will still buy one of his books! Because i want to learn as much as possible about the t-tops cars. I you don't have anything nice to say DON'T SAY ANYTHING!!! MY $.02 CENTS

As I also put my 2 cents worth in without personally attacking Jon in any way shape or form so I don't know how you can call pointing out a few pitfalls in a 12 year project bad mouthing. I have said it is a great idea a few times if you read all of posts not just the bits you wish to try misrepresent.

I am just pointing out that if 1988 only t-top information is all that people keep releasing history will be lost.

Which to me is a very valid point that he should be considering when taking on a project that is basically one to preserve history.

If everyone buried their heads in the sand and did not voice their opinions I think you would find you would have a forum full of messages Kev rather than a lot of replies.

I can understand that you want to see earlier t-tops not lost in History. I just have one question for you. (I'm asking this not to disrespect you at all) but you seem like a person who is bright enough and has the drive about fieros and seems to know about the early years, plus bought your fiero new (I think you said) and you never thought of trying to find out how many were converted in 1986 you would probably say no. I'm not here to keep writing replies to everything you ask me, I came for help! Now the reason I said people are directly not putting it out on the forum and are e-mailing me, isn't because I listed it in the note, It's because I get the e-mails that say "Just change the Title of the book, so he justs shuts up about it" and thats not right either! All I asked was for some help! I always try to look at things from other peoples eyes and sometimes works and sometimes it doesn't. Again I just wanted some help. Think of it as if you were on here as a first time user and you had 1988 doesn't matter if it had a t-top or not and the first thing i did was goe to history part, search 88 what do you he or she wood think when they came across this: They would see your history point but they would also see a person who was trying to ask for help got told to "bit him" because he has only so posts under his belt, then the long list of things that needs to be in there and start doing another search on pre-t-tops and again mentioned how many post people have under their belt. I would have never even posted about the book if it was going to be this much trouble. The people that e-mailed me don't mind about the title to include 88 only and there will be a little something said about pre-88 t-top fieros.

John, I respect what you are doing, and Aus, I respect you as well, you know that.

The way I see it, John, it's your book so you can call it anything you want and include anything you want. There are lots of books out there that are written about a specific model of car. If someone else wants to include more info they can write their own book.

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Tennessee Fiero Owners

AusFiero-I did read all the posts, and i'm not trying to start any flame here, or go after the small points. your last post was very clear on what you wanted to say. I'm sorry if i made you mad,and also like Jon you also do a great deal for the Fiero Community buy suppling parts for them and thank you!

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BLACK85GT 3800V6 2"DROP, FLUSHMOUNT HEADLIGHTS AND WRAPAROUND WING

I think your book sounds like a great idea. I'd buy it.
Ryan

Good, case closed. Unfortunately the written word when read back sounds harsher at times than your meaning. Which now I read a little mine does, but I am also rather screwed up in the stress department at the moment. So I apoligise if my words seemd to harsh.

I can appreciate where Jon is coming from for his book. But Jon, can you please just put a line mentioning the date dealers started fitting them as apposed to the factory option. It would certainly make a whole lot of earlier owners happy to know at least 1 book has documented the fact that they exist.

Every bit of literature and every web site in existance just seems to be ignoring that fact. Even the t-top registry snubbed my car because it isn't an 88 just one of the earliest cars to leave a dealer with t-tops. So much for it being a t-top registry, it also is an 88 only t-top registry. I just want someone to rate us a mention so 20 years from now I don't have to argue the point that t-tops were fitted before 88 without anything to back it up. Because that is they way it is heading right now.

Either way as Songman said the choice is yours, and I will probably buy the book anyway as I have an 88 t-topped car on hold to get eventually. But surely a mention that they were not the first t-topped Fieros does rate a mention for future integrity.

So much of the worlds history has been lost already by only part of the story getting written. So go for it Jon, write the book, I know it will be a good read on the 88's. But when I read it it would be great to see even a mention of the history of the earlier dealer fitted tops. Wish I could remember the exact date they started getting sold, I got told once but can't think of it.

And no I am not even going to attempt to write a book on the pre 88 ones myself as I have 3,000,000 unfinished projects now.

So please don't take my words wrong Jon, all I have try to add is some constructive thoughts on perhaps including something that is getting lost in history already.

I will also get you a VIN number of an 88 t-topped car sitting in Australia. It is a restorer and being held for me until I want to travel the 2600 KMs to pick it up, oh and pay for it. It is on an island off the Queensland coast and sort of a ***** to get to the mainland again. Just tried to ring the guy but he isn't home at the moment. Will forward it to you in email.

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My Fiero
Need a Subwoofer Console or Speaker Door Pods?

Hey John, the book sounds like a good idea, I know that I'll buy one.

Mine is 219659, which isn't listed. Means you have info on it, right? If not, email me! :)

I think you can pretty much count on any T-top fiero owner picking up a copy if they are made aware of it.

I like the idea of including the 'non factory' 87 and 86 cars, perhaps as a supliment or appendix section though.

Like it or not, the 88 T-tops are considered the pinacle of fieros by most people (hey, it makes sense, best <imho> body/top, and best mechanicals <suspension, brakes>)

I'd like to see the entire story included in the book. Especially the trials and tribulations C&C went through to get these cars finally 'produced' by gm offically.

Best!
Ben.

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Ben Cannon
88 Formula, T-top Metalic Red
88 Formula, Silver
87 Coupe, Metalic Red
"Every Man Dies, not every man really Lives"
-Mel Gibson, "Braveheart"

Jon,

I used to have a "CJB" (it WAS authentic) 88 Formula that was NOT listed on the registry. Even after I submitted it, spoke with Ray Paulk, and got some paperwork back from him. It's VIN 219140. You might be missing this one. Maybe some others, too, since this one apparently got overlooked. This car IS still around. Belongs to one of the guys in our club.
BTW... I'm with Aus. I DO believe that the earlier cars should be mentioned, in as much detail as practical. (Don't know how practical it will be since very few of them were likely documented.)
I remember seeing a T-topper in 86 or 87. Was a tremendous WOW factor! I had an 85 GT at the time. Was thinking about getting it converted until the shop that did them closed down.

------------------
Raydar - aka Steve

Black 88 Formula.
Red 88 Duke coupe. "The Project"
88 Formula parts car. "The Donor"

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 07-07-2001).]

20

[This message has been edited by fieroparts.com (edited 10-13-2001).]