What I don't get, is a 4 cylinder engine. Okay, sure, if you want fuel economy, it's good. But for power? no no no no, all wrong, get at LEAST a 6. This doesn't only apply to Fieros, but anything else. My definition of a rice boy car is any 4 cylinder car that attempts to be fast. I just want to see how many people that visit this forum agree with me on that one. I HATE Civics, and Preludes, and Accords and Toyotas and Hyandais with a passion, it's not cause they're imports, but because they are slow. Then people put turbos and whatnot in them, but take that SAME amount of money that you just put into your civic, drop it on a nice Fiero V6 for some upgrades. Guaranteed your Fiero will still be faster. I may not be making any sense right now, it's late, so bear with me. For all those people that insist that civics are fast, get a life, and get a real car. I have plans to put an LT1 or just a plane ol 350 in my 85GT (haven't made my mind up yet). And why do I want to do that swap?

Because there's no replacement for displacement!!!

Hehe, all I can do is laugh at this poor soul. BUT, This is your opinion and I will somewhat respect it. However stupid it is. and NO, I dont want a flamewar and Yes I smell a troll.. or a mole whatever you wanna call it. And it smells wicked.

edit: I forgot to mention, as friendly as I can be(and yes I can be friendly). I do hope every duke owner(and 4tech owner gotta be PC) bashes the 2.8 out of ya ... just for the single fact, the 84 IndyPace car could walk all over your 2.8.
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Ray - "And God said there shall be one in thy owns image, and he made me"
Download FieroProject.com Chat Client v1.50 Today

[This message has been edited by Galen (edited 07-30-2001).]

I'd take a good 4 cyl over a 2.8 anyday.

Sloth, ya gotta learn to lighten up. You're gonna give yourself hemmoroids.

I forgot, that guy Standard, who imo is most friendly his lil 4banger would prolly hand you your ass in a handbasket in your lil 85gt.. But I dunno

While I don't agree 100% with him I've never liked 4's, I think they sound like crap, there slow, no torque, they don't breath well and on and on.

Now you may say the Quad 4 is fast but if you made the same mods to a V6 or V8 it would tear that Q4 apart.

The only good thing about a 4 is the weight BUT if a 6 was the same size as the 4 it would also be light.

The light 4 will let a fiero handle better but will lack the power and more impotently the TORQUE to keep up in every day driving.

I don't know about all of you but in my opinion a good 6 will beat a good 4 any day of the week.

Don't get me wrong I respect the 4's but I respect 6's and 8's even more!

As a gentleman I have always attempted to avoid a battle of wits with an unarmed man so I think I will pass on this one...besides he who arugues with a fool is probably one himself.

have you ever seen those posted speedlimit signs. Why would you want a V8 to go the same speed on a public road and get 15 mpg when you could have a 4 cyl get 40 mpg and go the exact same speed.

Some people like to go the speedlimit..

Some people can't afford 15 mpg

Some people cant afford a V8

Subaru Rally Cars are 4 cyl

The SD4 was a 4 cyl, almost 3 liters but a 4

A stock civic vtec would blow the doors off most stock 100k mile V6 fieros..... why, it revs up to make the power and has better gearing. Age comes into play with this one.

I know its dumb to battle with someone unprepared but Im defending the duke owners.

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quote Originally posted by sloth85GT: What I don't get, is a 4 cylinder engine. Okay, sure, if you want fuel economy, it's good. But for power? no no no no, all wrong, get at LEAST a 6. This doesn't only apply to Fieros, but anything else. My definition of a rice boy car is any 4 cylinder car that attempts to be fast. I just want to see how many people that visit this forum agree with me on that one. I HATE Civics, and Preludes, and Accords and Toyotas and Hyandais with a passion, it's not cause they're imports, but because they are slow. Then people put turbos and whatnot in them, but take that SAME amount of money that you just put into your civic, drop it on a nice Fiero V6 for some upgrades. Guaranteed your Fiero will still be faster. I may not be making any sense right now, it's late, so bear with me. For all those people that insist that civics are fast, get a life, and get a real car. I have plans to put an LT1 or just a plane ol 350 in my 85GT (haven't made my mind up yet). And why do I want to do that swap? Because there's no replacement for displacement!!!

a typical v8 owner. yada yada yada "v8's rule, i'm king of the road..."

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85 GT Auto
17" Racing Hart C5 wheels wrapped with Kumho Ecsta Supra 712 tires, Intrax lowering springs, KYB shocks, KYB-GR2 struts, West Coast Fiero Strut Tower Bar, West Coast Fiero Cold-Air Intake w/ HKS Super Flow filter, Beretta brake upgrade in front, KVS Performance Slotted Rotors in rear, Earl's Steel-Braided Brake Lines J.E.T. super chip and MSD Blaster Coil.

134ft/lbs of torque sucks? isn't that about more than what the new mr2 has?

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Ray - "And God said there shall be one in thy owns image, and he made me"
Download FieroProject.com Chat Client v1.50 Today

My point was, When driving on the street Torque really helps, when in trafic, when getting on the freeway, when pulling onto a street with lots cross trafic.

My motto has always been

TORQUE WINS RACES HORSEPOWER SELLS CARS!!

OR

You drive TORQUE you brag about HORSEPOWER!!

Go drive a 300hp 4cyl then Drive a 300hp L98 Vette/TA and you tell me what one FEELS beter!

I wish I had a time machine so I could teleport all the Duke-haters back to the winner's circle at Indianapolis in 1961. There, they could tell A.J. Foyt to his face what a pussy he was for driving an Offenhauser 4-cyl to Victory Lane.

Or we could drop in at Indy 14 years later, when the Offy was turbocharged and made 800+ hp. You could tell Bobby Unser what a dickless wuss he was for driving a 4-cylinder.

But I guess I wouldn't have to go back that far. I could just take you back to 1987 when A.J. set a closed-course speed of 267.399 mph in the Quad-4 powered Olds Aerotech.

No, wait -- I guess I don't need a time machine after all. I could just take you to Pikes Peak next year. Then, when Rod Millen gets out of his 900-hp 4-cyl Tacoma, you can tell him he's a pussy.

Sloth,
The fact of the matter is that there are plenty of folks here with 4 bangers, who like them just fine, thank you very much. There are also some nicely modded 4's out there.

Wanna get any respect on this Forum?
Don't come in here from the get-go and verbally trash the cars of half the local population.

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Raydar - aka Steve

Black 88 Formula.
Red 88 Duke coupe. "The Project"
88 Formula parts car. "The Donor"

I never minded my Iron Duke. You can have fun with them too. I still like my 6 a lot better since I put it in my coupe, but I still enjoy Jaygee79's Duke. it doesn't sound that bad with duel exhaust.

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Josh

Also 88 Yellow GT :D
My pics

quote Originally posted by sloth85GT: I may not be making any sense right now, it's late, so bear with me.

Yes, look at the time, get some sleep...

quote Originally posted by Galen: just for the single fact, the 84 IndyPace car could walk all over your 2.8.

Are you talking about the actual pace car, not the "pace car" sold to the public.

When I first saw this topic, I thought it was someone referring to the DIS I-4's and making people think he was bashing 4's. Then it turns out he's just bashing 4's.

I mean the actual pace car

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Ray - "And God said there shall be one in thy owns image, and he made me"
Download FieroProject.com Chat Client v1.50 Today

I want to see your V6 beat the '87 Olds Aerotech Quad4.

It set the landspeed record for an internal combustion engine at over 257mph.

I love V6/V8s as much as the next guy, but there are some pretty fast 4-cyls out there.

Okay first my 85 duke with 5 speed is geat, i love it! alright its not a farrari but for what i need this thing is pretty quick, it will bench the 85mph speedo in a reasonable amount of time and get great gas milage while doing it, the duke may not have alot of horse power (92) but where its advantges are its tourqe; it has >150 ft lbs if i remeber right, thats alot for a 4 cyl..

now on to civics and stuff, I actually like them; my nighbor has one with 275,000 miles on it and all he has done to it was changed oil when he was suppost to. obviously you have never drove or ridden in a honda, they dont have much power until about 3000 rpm but then they scream - even the non v-tecs are pretty quick. i know many people that have hondas and other imports I think i like them all, great acceleration, good cornering, overall ride is Great i think they are very good cars, BTW a V-Tec honda (not positve but im pretty sure) could smoke a 2.8 Fiero.

you say they put so much money into them they could buy a nice Fiero with a Lt1 and stuff well Okay you get a fully loaded Civic for 22,000 (My friend bought one last year, came with everything including a supercharger) Then you buy a desent 15 year old car and put 10,000 into it and you still have a 15 year old Fiero no warentees somethign you will still have to fix, i belive that for the price you pay on them cars is a damn good deal for speed, reliablity ect.

Ahh Im getting mad time to get off
Kyle

I have a 4, and I would liek it to be faster, but it's not a dog either. And I know plenty of people with 4's (foreign) that would take your 2.8 in a heartbeat. hell, I've seen races at englishtown where hondas kept up with vettes. one or 2 they actually won. Granted it doesn't happen every day, but it does happen.

Well I think I got my question answered. But people that put money into a 4 confuse me. Why bother? In the end, you still won't have as much as a 6 if you did the same mods. And someone made a point too that I forgot to mention, Civics sound like **** . Why are most of you talking about the Duke, I was talking about imports. My point again, imports are ugly, and slow as hell.

quote Originally posted by sloth85GT: What I don't get, is a 4 cylinder engine. Okay, sure, if you want fuel economy, it's good. But for power? no no no no, all wrong, get at LEAST a 6. This doesn't only apply to Fieros, but anything else.

Yeah, gotta hate those Lotus Esprit Turbos and Lotus Elans, not to mention the Honda S2000 or various Alfa Romeos, Fiats, Triumphs, etc. Yeah, they're only good for econo-commuting.

Is it easier to get power out of a bigger engine? Sure. Is it necessary? No.

Well, the 190 HP and 165 ft/lbs of torque may not get a six off the line, once I get above 3,000 rpm the advantages of DOHC kick in. And on the freeway it wouldn't be much of a contest... having a 3rd gear that tops out a little above 100 helps

And it's down a whole 5 ft/lbs of torque from the stock 2.8.. and up 50-60 hp. And quite a bit lighter. And I'll be getting 30mpg while I outrun you

There is a replacement for displacement. It's called technology.

oh yeah... and if this doesn't apply to Fiero's, why are you posting it in the general FIERO chat? If you want to rant about how crappy imports are, put it in the o/t section or take it somewhere else.
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1988 Quad 4 Coupe 5 speed

1986 GT 5 speed, 1984 SC Auto
AOL: LastMinuteBastrd AIM: SavedbyJebus

[This message has been edited by Standard (edited 07-30-2001).]

Sleeper - careful there. Not ALL V8 owners think they own the world, or hate 4 cylinders, or 6 cyliners, or anything like that. That is the kind of blanket generalization that gets these threads all riled up.

Besides, this clown isn't a V8 owner. He's one of the mouths that TALKS about building a V8. Big difference. Of course that assumes he isn't just a troll...

Hartz
'84 SC 5.7L V8
'85 SE 3.1L V6 Turbo

Now that everyone has thorougly gotton mad at me, let me just say this. This is an ongoing argument that will never end. Two parties that have different opinions and we both think we're right. I'm stubborn as you can probably tell, but oh well. My belief is a stock V6, toasts a stock 4 anyday, unless you want to pay $100,000 for a Lotus. That's just it, when doing this comparison people are mentioning their souped up, turbocharged 4 cylinders and how they can beat a stock V6, well let's keep it on an even playing field here. Put a turbo running the same amount of boost on a V6, THEN see who's got the go. Nobody is going to win this argument. And this all just came about from last night. It was cuise night, I went driving, and all of the ugly civis and cavaliers out there made me nautious. I just hate those cars, and I happen to find them good only for fuel economy, not power. Whether someone else disagrees with me or not. You won't change my mind. And I won't change yours. We're like Ford and Chevy owners, we all know Chevy's are better, but try telling that to a Ford guy. The argument will get nowhere. I am glad this topic had such a huge response, I was able to see other people point of view on this topic. And accidentally make a few enemies while I was at it. Bottom line is like I said, stock V6, beats a stock I4 anyday. That is....if it's in a car that's in the same price range, you can't compare a Lotus and Fiero. That's like Comparing a Viper and a Suzuki Swift, no comparison.

Opps, should have read more into the conversation before replying this time...

[This message has been edited by Tigger (edited 07-30-2001).]

No, at no point did I mention the Duke engine. I mentioned rice boy cars. Cars that have 4 cylinder engines, that were not made for speed, but for economy, turned into these things that people THINK are fast. I don't find anything wrong with owning an I4, but what I DO find wrong is people attempting to draw power out of these tiny engines. I find that sad and confusing. Why not just spend the money of a bigger engine? You'll get way more power.

Hey, don't be so quick to dismiss 4 cylinders for power. My family has owned 5 Merkur XR4Ti's. 2.3L turbo four, 175 hp, 200 ft. lb. of torque. A 5-speed Merkur will smoke a Fiero GT anyday of the week. Slap an intercooler and a bigger VAM on a Merk and you'll have over 200hp, in a rear wheel drive car with almost perfect 50/50 weight distribution. And that's just to start. I've got a friend in GA with a 320 hp Merkur, it will smoke pretty much anything less than a Viper. I still maintain there's no better bang for the buck than a Merkur, perfect examples can be found for less than $2k.
We still own an 89' XR4Ti, as well as a Volvo 760 GLE turbo intercooled station wagon, another 4 cyl. car that can keep up with your Fiero GTs, even though it weighs as much as the USS Missouri.
You will notice I didn't even try to defend the iron duke, I know that's a lost cause.

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Sean W.
'84 SE 2M4 WS6, The "Buzz Bomb". (restoration project to become daily driver)
'84 Sport Coupe, The "Black Wedge of Death" ($150 running car)

I for one, don
t have them oney for more. If I did, you bet I'd have it.
But, you ask why?
Whenever anyone asks me why, I simply smile at them, and tell them because I can. It's a great feeling when I used to pull up next to aht 80's Z28 in my 90 Eclipse and they would rev their moror, and all they'd see was my tail lights.
All because someone said "you can't..."

quote Because there's no replacement for displacement!!!

That statement is true in a way. Personally, I'd rather be sitting behind a body shaking, ground pounding, cam'in V8 than a little whinney 4 cyl. (insert big Tim "Toolman" grunt)

From an engineering standpoint, that statement doesn't make sense. Engineers always want to optimize power output using the minimum size and engine weight they can.

If you can develop 350+ HP from a mostly stock, stout V8, great, but if you can develop the same amount of power from a dinky lightweight 4 cyl, you'll have gained some weight advantage that hopefully will outweigh the disadvantage of less off line torque.

A lot of it is a matter of opinion, but it's always good to see the viewpoint from both sides.

[This message has been edited by Tigger (edited 07-30-2001).]

Sloth,

Not true at all. I owned a 1991 Eagle Talon TSI before my fiero. Turbo, AWD. I hate to say it, but I will absolutly smoke a stock Fiero (which is expected). While it is a 4 banger, it would not hesitate to race almost anything on the road (will take stock 5.0's easily).

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Again, you 4 banger owners are talking about turbos against stock V6's. Were you not reading what I was saying? Or are you just stupid? Or both? Of course you need that turbo to beat a STOCK V6. If that SAME V6 had a turbo, same boost, who'd win? The V6!!!

Turbos ARE stock on both Merkur XR4Tis and Volvo 760 turbos. I could see your objection if we were talking about aftermarket turbos, but we're not. The cars came from the factory that way.

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Sean W.
'84 SE 2M4 WS6, The "Buzz Bomb". (restoration project to become daily driver)
'84 Sport Coupe, The "Black Wedge of Death" ($150 running car)

I drive an 87 4cyl fiero, which im betting i could give you a good race with. I also drive a foking TC Maserati that will blow your doors off even if it was running on 3 cylinders!

as you said, it was late when you wrote that, and you were tired, and probably stoned or drunk, so you are forgiven.

When I say "stock" I mean naturally aspirated, as in no forced induction. Turbos are add-ons. Factory add-ons yes, so I guess that can mean stock, but that doesn't make it a level playing field does it? And maybe my GT has more than stock, because I remember beating a TSI AWD. Close one, but I beat it. I'm a third owner and don't have any records of what was done to my car, but I CAN tell you, I've beaten a TSI.

I love when people say my brand new highly moded high tech 4cyl will beat your 17 year old stock 2.8 Of course it will heh.

I still belive you can ALWAYS get more power out of a bigger engine than a smaller engine.

quote Originally posted by sloth85GT: Again, you 4 banger owners are talking about turbos against stock V6's. Were you not reading what I was saying? Or are you just stupid? Or both? Of course you need that turbo to beat a STOCK V6. If that SAME V6 had a turbo, same boost, who'd win? The V6!!!

I can't speak for anyone else, but my Eclipse was not turbo. And i used to race 5.0s and Z28's all the time. Granted, my car wasn't 100% stock, but it only had the normal bolt ons. Nothing internal, and definitely no turbo.
As for calling people stupid, that's not going to please very many people, nor make them like you or even listen to what you're saying without thinking that you're some J.O. that just wants to start an argument.

Headed to Maryland 10 years ago.Sticking to the 65 mile per hour speed limit.Everyone is passing my 4 cylinder Fiero doing 75 or so on the flat road.We get to the mountains.At the top of the hill,I'm still doing 65 and have passed all the speedsters the hill slowed down.(we went down the hill and they all passed me again).I was not abusing the car,I still have her and she runs great.I don't mind your opinion,but I must defend the honor of my beloved Gypsy.

sloth please shut the f*ck up, and to everyone else let him be and forget this thread. He will not change his mind even if a n/a inline 4 does bite his ass off and hand it to him on a plate.

Noboby can disagree with me on this one....

The rumble of a V6, or the roar of a V8, sounds much better, than the lawn-mower-like sputter of an I4!!!