still?
i know that most spyder's are now going for stick, or close to it.
but i do remember charging dealers charging an extra $5k last year. (some even more if they did apperance stuff).
maita's are pretty cheap (seen the for thousands under sticker price). not MR, but i think i'd take it over the spyder if they're still going for way over sticker.
(miata's are smaller inside than the spdyer, and a lot smaller than the mki)

edit; for got to mention, i don't think they care much about the us, they main goal is to satify the jdm. but even then, miata's are like $14k over there, not $21 or whatever they go for here.

[This message has been edited by AL2 (edited 08-03-2001).]

OK< a few corrections for the group

MKIs did come with power steering, I've ridden in one that did, but it was exceptionally rare.

MKIs are in my best estimate more capable track tearers than fieros simply because of the weight advantage and I think better distribution. But, I don't know this for fact. I've ridden in 1FSTM6's fiero, and he rode in my MR2. we both though the MR2 felt like a go kart. The Fiero felt to me more like my dad's 93 vette. Very stiff, and it felt "GM." It's kina hard to explain. I don't know what kind of auto X track presense the fiero has, so I honestly don't know what kind of numbers could be run between the two. if it were skidpad figures though, I have a feeling a decked out fiero to decked MKI race would give a MKI something it would need to work up to. Stock for stock tho, the MR2 has it beat. That double wishbone you guys have does leave a hefty question mark over my head though.

as far as the turbo models, there were NO TURBO MKIS built. SC came out in Japan in 1986, and we got hold of it in 1988. The reason they got rid of the s/c was because the MKII needed a bigger, better motor. So, toyota took the motor they had initially used in the celica all trac and put it in the MR2, similarly to what happened with the MKI. The MKI's mechanicals were mostly pulled from that same year's Corolla.

on the subject of engine swaps for the Spyder, the MR2 hasn't been given the celicas motor for the simple reason of consumer costs. If they did that, like it has been said, the insurance rates would rival higher powered cars, which is what helped pull the MKII out of the market. Low sales due to insurance and initial costs. HOWEVER, this does NOT mean that the engine in the GTS celica cannot be substituted into the MKIII MR2 / MR2 sypder. The engine used in the Celica non GTS is the same as in the MR2. 1ZZ-FE. As far as I know, the 2ZZ-GE that is in the GTS celica should bolt up without any major problems. Were I doing the swap I would get the 6 speed regardless if I needed it or not. That's just something you have to have in a sports car IMO. The real difference between the two cars is the head. the G code in the engine code designates a high flowing, performance head design. Whereas the F head is their 'economy head' design, with different port and flow characteristics. Both motors use Toyota's VVTi variable valve timing system.

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1987 Toyota MR2 N/A 5 speed...and yes, it's modded
http://www.atlantamr2s.com
http://www.geocities.com/darionscard

[This message has been edited by PearlBlueSoul (edited 08-03-2001).]

well i dont know much about either car. i own an 87 fiero gt. my dad has an 86 mr2 and an 89 vett.

here is my road test results.

well the vett. cant really be compared to either of them except i know what that guy was talking about when he said the fiero was very gm riding. the fiero seems like a minny vett.

my dad has had the mr2 for several years and have driven it alot. its alot easer to turn the the stearing wheel. and handles really well around corners. seems light on its feet. and again. is gocart like. (i use to have one)

the fiero handles just as good as the mr2 around corners but has differnt feel. it seems so much bigger then the mr2 probably cause its heavier.

the mr2 is a dog accelerating. but can spin the tires. whats and na mrki supose to go 0-60 in?

the fiero is alot quicer than the mr2. my dad was amazed when i took him for a spin.

after my dad took the fiero for a ride he said i have to get one of these. i told him he shouldn't and should keep looking for a trubo mrkii. lets face it. fieros need to be tinkerd on. and you have to keep an eye on them. they only last till around a 100k.

a newer mr2 would be much more reliable.

does the turbo mrkii really do 13s stock?
i was thinking more like mid to high 14s...

eh, as far as mki's being slow, if you rode in a n/a, yeah I could see that. the S/C MKIs are much more torquey, but a V6's torque is undeniable and uncompensatable from an inline 4 with half the displacement. 1.6 versus 2.8. do the math.

but yeah, the MKII will run mid to high 14's stock, but it takes VERY LITTLE to drop them to low 13's, even to high 12s. intake, exhaust, downpipe, basic mods like that will increas horsepower dramatically. the motor in the MKII MR2 is a race bred motor, and hence responds very well to mods. Also, that heritige makes the motor very durable as well. I know most supra racers in japan swap out the inline 6 (also a competant motor, creating HP in excess of 1000) for the MR2's motor, and regularly tune them to over 600HP. They are, like I said, very responsive to mods, making 471 RWHP without internal modifications.

stock mki na will go 0-60 in the low 8's (heard 8.0, 8.2, 8.3...) that's for the 5 speed.

While I've little expierence in the Mk1 cars, I did have a chance to drive in depth a very nice Mk2 Turbo ('93 I belive)

The *88* Fiero definately out-handles the MR2. It's no contest. The Mr2 does feel very quick, and infact it feels a little quicker than the fiero. But it's just less-stable (let me qualify this, both cars are VERY stable, and very comptent sports cars in any sense. I'm just making a relative comparison :)

The MR2 feels like it has a much higher centre of gravity (as it does infact.)
It reaches it's limits slightly sooner, and slightly less forgivingly, than my 88 Formula Fiero. (stock, except for 17" wheels, which make a huge difference, the car is too intense a macine for the stock 15s :)

Do you mr2 guys have any mods for lowering the centre of gravity for the mk2 cars? (I'd imagine that is difficult!~) Do larger wheels/tyres help, or are the stock turbo tyres pretty close to fitting the car (they feel that way to me, wheras on the fiero the crappy 15" sizes make for a very 'tight' car that just wastes itself on mushy tyres.)

The engine the turbos get is just great, reliable with 400hp bolt-ons!!! (yeikes! go rally car motors! :) EVERY fiero owner wishes we had the level of reliability and build quality you turbo owners have, belive me. (though I personally want two of the 4-bangers, or a v8 that still revs like mad, that Lexus V8 MR2 is AWESOME! (if a bit gharish in style, but that's another whole story :)

Best!
Ben.

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Ben Cannon
88 Formula, T-top Metalic Red
88 Formula, Silver
87 Coupe, Metalic Red
"Every Man Dies, not every man really Lives"
-Mel Gibson, "Braveheart"

ok, I must say first that lowering a macpherson's center of gravity is as easy as doing Ground control coil overs or springs.

As far as the forgiving bit goes, I don't know. I do know though that Toyota has always overdone the height on it's MR2s. even second gens make me sick with how much fender gap is tehre. And the MRS. If you lower a MR2 it gets much in the way of grip back. Also, 15s or 16s do wonders on the handling and grip. Less sidewall flex and more footprint = more traction.

Sway in the body also makes the MR2 seem a bit ungainly when cornering, and translates to loss of grip. Sway bars you can get that are adjustable front and rear eliminate this to such an extent it is by far the most bang for your buck mod to do to the MR2. I will never be able to say enough about how ST's bars changed the handling on my MR2 when I installed JUST them.

yeah, like pbs said, lowering's easy.
i think all mr2's from 84-99 came stock with 14" rims!
i understand the mki, but mkii turbo's too!
the mkii turbo is probably the worst handling mr2, though.
the mkiii spyders supposedly handle great, but when i drove it i didn't really like the fact that it had power steering and so much understeer, but i'm sure it could spank my car.

conculsion, yes, mr2's can be made to handle much much better. that's our main thing, especially since it's relative hard to make 4 out of the 5 different types of mr2's fast (ie; run 12's)

ps; i agree, the car feels like it's on stilts sometimes