There isn't even any description on that page. Just the title "Archie's Mess" and some stupid pics.
That's good business. .
------------------ TRiAD Motorsports ~ Performance Tuning of European, Japanese and Domestic Automobiles Project MR1 / Let the modding begin! ~ triadtuning@hotmail.com * AIM ~ Michael Blue 72 Only the dead have seen the end of war. ~ Plato
and have a quetsion, Why does it look like they are 2 different engines? One has an auto one has a manual, one has a carb and the other doesn't, one has valve covers the other doesn't, one has a Mallory distributor the other looks like a standard GM HEI.
BTW ~ I was at Archie's Open House and know the real story.
Well, I've been looking at these pictures a little more & I can tell you what's going on. Not only are the WCF punks the scum of the earth, they are also copying my parts.
As you remember, when the car was at my place it was a beat up engine with no valve covers and soot all over it AND it was an Automatic.
Earlier Eric had posted something about it being a 383 Stroker engine. As you pointed out there is one engine with an auto trans & one with a stick. In the pictures you see that the stick trans. is bolted to the engine without valve covers. When it was at my place the Auto Trans was bolted to that engine. They've done a little engine swaparoo here for some reason. You know that my stick adapter and automatic adapter are different thickness' the auto is just less than 1.5" thick and the stick is just under 1" thick. So we take a look at the pictures and what do we see?
Let's look at the alternator bracket first. In the 1st picture WCFrScumAltMine.jpg you see the Blue alt mount… notice how the radii #1 & #2 of the bolt slot and the counterface are parallel to each other and were machined on the same radius. Compare them to the 2nd pic. WCFrScumAltCopy.jpg and you can see the difference. The part in the 2nd pic was obviously machined on a hand operated milling machine and not a CNC like we use. Take a look at the outside shape of the part the Blue one (arrow #3) has a nice smooth arc. Compare that to the 2nd pic. WCFrScumAltCopy.jpg and you can see the difference. Also notice how the bolt hole (Red Circle) is located closer to the top edge in the copy than in the original part.
Let's take a look at the adapter plates…… notice the thickness of the adapter plate in pic WCFrScumAutoMine.jpg That adapter plate is nearly 1.5" thick and parameter around the part is a nice smooth, straight Plasma cut. Then take a look at pic WCFrScumStickCopy.jpg this is a copy of my Stick Shift Adapter plate notice the thickness (Blue arrows), this is 1" thick. Now take a look at the outside of the part … look at that Divot from the flame cutting….. I would never ship a part that had that big of a snag in such an obvious place.
Next time Eric feels the need to put up pictures in a negative web site about me, he should at least take a close look at the stories those pictures can tell.
Oh, BTW, has anyone noticed how quiet our little kids are today..... did Craig Poeske & little Eric get caught in another lie today?
Archie
Yeah….. Eric…… remember, I said that now it's my turn.
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08:55 PM
West Coast Fiero Member
Posts: 2044 From: Los Angeles, CA, USA Registered: Jun 2001
they are all your parts that Mr. Esposito has purchased, and has asked us to install for him. Yes, 2 "complete" subframes and 1 car. His words were " Pick the best of the 2 and make it happen".
First of all give us a little credit - we do not copy parts, how many parts do we offer that are "copies" of any body elses. We would not bother with a V-8 kit at this time as it isNOT smog legal here in California, no matter what anybody says. And yes, I know of the little VIN swapping tricks used in the past by respective people out here with your kit to make the kit "legal"
General point is, bottom line - this customer came to you for help, whatever the story is ( I don't even care ), stuff happened ( oh well, it does happen ) and moved out here and sought the help of Beach Boys Racing ( where the car is at this time, and who also welded in the "support" frame as the car has no roof )and us here at WCF, will you set us straight and help this gentleman get his car together with our help, or do you have to much pride that you won't even do that
My appologies to you, your thread, your shop, your followers, and your Fino. I have not only removed the pics from the website, but removed the entire site. Not for fear of "lawsuits", but simply as it is in nobody's best interest right now to show pictures of this car and it's current condition.
Simply put - will you help this gentleman?
------------------ ( the above was the thoughts, views, and opinions of a disgruntled Fiero mechanic, and do not express or imply those of West Coast Fiero, Fieros West, or any other organization - just that of this poor bastard ) :) Eric Nelson Technician, West Coast Fiero 310-305-4111
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09:43 PM
Rodrv6 Member
Posts: 1909 From: Ball Ground, Ga. Registered: Nov 1999
This makes 2 Georgians. I decided that a long time ago when my Power Steering thread was hyjacked/flamed to hell and back.
Make that 3 Georgians. Although I've never been personally attacked by this group in any way, it's totally disgusting that certain folks on the west coast felt that they had to hijack and derail a perfectly good thread. Very childish. I can only assume that this behavior would spill over into their business practices, so they will never see a dime of my money.
------------------ Rod Schneider, Woodstock, Ga. White 88 GT
[This message has been edited by Rodrv6 (edited 02-24-2002).]
[This message has been edited by Rodrv6 (edited 02-24-2002).]
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10:18 PM
artherd Member
Posts: 4159 From: Petaluma, CA. USA Registered: Apr 2001
Um, I know of several smog-legal cars in CA using archie's kit. All (three) happen to be LT1s out of stick-shift vettes. You go to the BAR in sacramento, they recertify the car (they are big dicks about it too, but usually eventually allow it.) Then the car is registered as V8 Fiero. Done.
Personally, I wouldn't help this esposito guy across a street, he sounds dangerous, the type that would sue you if he broke his own leg a mile down the road. Eric, I would STOP talking to him, and re-evaluate your position with Archie. I think you are the victim of a viscious back-stabbing customer-from-hell.
Does look like that engine got trashed from sitting in the shithole it's in now, not Archie's shop. An automatic F355? what a loser!
No, I will not help someone that drops a pile of **** off at my place, leaves it there, and sends no money, then slanders me.
Cheers! Ben.
------------------ Ben Cannon 88 Formula, T-top, Metalic Red. "Every Man Dies, not every man really Lives" 88 Formula, Northstar, Silver, In-Progreess. -Mel Gibson, "Braveheart"
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10:19 PM
Archie Member
Posts: 9436 From: Las Vegas, NV Registered: Dec 1999
Originally posted by West Coast Fiero: First of all give us a little credit - ....
Simply put - will you help this gentleman?
Hey little Eric, I think the day is gone where anyone believes ANYTHING you say.
Your so smart, you fix that guys' car, 'cuz I've had my fill of both of you. You're both Liars.
Hey Eric, it kinda looks like it's time for you to start another thread where you give away used Fiero parts. Maybe that will save your reputation until the next time you do something stupid.
Archie
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10:25 PM
West Coast Fiero Member
Posts: 2044 From: Los Angeles, CA, USA Registered: Jun 2001
Originally posted by Archie: Hey little Eric, I think the day is gone where anyone believes ANYTHING you say.
Your so smart, you fix that guys' car, 'cuz I've had my fill of both of you. You're both Liars.
Hey Eric, it kinda looks like it's time for you to start another thread where you give away used Fiero parts. Maybe that will save your reputation until the next time you do something stupid.
Archie
Quick to retaliate with reverting back to slander, I made my appologies, I will not do it again.
As Ben said, I believe this will be the route we take. I mean - if Archie got this much flak from the guy, then we certainly don't need him nor does anybody else.
Good times and bad times, yadda yadda yadda.....A flame here and a flame there. Please for the love of god. Stop this insanity. Most of us are adults here so please act like. Ive seen WAAAAY to many threads where Archie and WCF are at each others throats. It's an old story. I dont care who is wrong or right. This is just dumb. I saw anapoligy by WCF. And WCF ASKED for help. Im not condoning anyone here. But damn. Makes me stay away from ANY thread posted by either......Im not here to piss anyone off or the likes. If I do then tuff cookies. Just please stop with this bickering and lets all have a nice FIERO FORUM where we can all get information weather it be good or bad or whatever......
Originally posted by West Coast Fiero: ...My appologies to you, your thread, your shop, your followers, and your Fino. I have not only removed the pics from the website, but removed the entire site. Not for fear of "lawsuits", but simply as it is in nobody's best interest right now to show pictures of this car and it's current condition....
That's an apology? I don't think so. Sounds more like sarcasm to me. I just wish you'd quit your little attacks. They are childish... just childish.
------------------ Roy :D Just another stock Blue 87 GT Suncoast Fieros JUST ADDED: YELLOW 1988 GT w/ T-Tops, 5-Speed, and Performance Sound.
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08:43 AM
PFF
System Bot
Chief Member
Posts: 264 From: Miami Fl , USA Registered: Dec 2001
West Coast Fiero: Piss Poor apology, I believe you owe Archie a proper and detailed APOLOGY. It should state that you should not have posted the comments you made or pictures on your site: The same kind of apology that you would want if the tables were turned. It appears that you want to hold Archie responsible for a deal that you don't even know the details of, but you don't want to be responsible for your own words and actions. Be a man and clean up your mess, at least it will show others that you regret your actions and that you have learned from them.
WCF; Call Archie and give him a proper apology. You guys should NOT be working against each other. Instead you should help each other out as it would be mutually rewarding. You can never have too many friends and if we look at this objectively you both have some very good qualities. Treat each other with respect and put this behind you. If you work together you can both increase your business and accomplish a lot more.
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09:24 AM
KlaX Member
Posts: 611 From: Richmond, VA Registered: Feb 2002
Archie = Fiero God, you west coast punk mofos do shitty jobs and come up with your own ideas, If f you I wsould snap your necks just for being shittty towards Archie we have all seen pictures of all his fiero conversions and how clean they are, we know he has some of the best craftmanship we have seen. Go to the stinger post, that car made me **** my pants, that is the most bad ass car I have ever seen, WCF go screw yourselves.
WCF practicing some good business skills. I wonder how many people have read the drivel on the forum and attacks on archie and thought to themselves "perhaps I won't order from WCF"
I didn't hear archie make a peep when your flywheel caused people problems , but you take it upon youself to attack the man every chance you get.
Your certinaly not building a good reputation. How many people read this forum?
Piston envy??
JM
[This message has been edited by Slammed Fiero (edited 02-25-2002).]
Not Smog Legal in CA? Ive seen pics of V-8 fieros using archie's kit that are in CA with even pics of the emmisions slips saying in big letters PASS. you got V-8 cars in California dont you? I dont see why a V-8 in a 87 Camaro would pass emmisions but a V-8 in an 87 Fiero wouldnt.
------------------ Adam J. B. The search for a GT will never end! IM AOL: GTFiero & Rumpdetective (dont ask)
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05:07 PM
FieroGTS Member
Posts: 200 From: Tampa, FL, USA Registered: Feb 2002
I have been lurking for some time because I didn't feel right posting with little knowledge and expierance, though I have spent the last month or so researching building a either a V8 Fiero or a 3800SC Fiero from WCF or Archie. Lets just say, after this thread, I know who I will choose. Archie, you have e-mail.
Originally posted by FieroGTS: I have been lurking for some time because I didn't feel right posting with little knowledge and expierance, though I have spent the last month or so researching building a either a V8 Fiero or a 3800SC Fiero from WCF or Archie. Lets just say, after this thread, I know who I will choose. Archie, you have e-mail.
i staht your 89; fiero GTP in your sig
------------------ Rally car, full roll cage, skid plates, light bars, scs suspension, koni adjusters
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07:55 PM
FieroGTS Member
Posts: 200 From: Tampa, FL, USA Registered: Feb 2002
Originally posted by 85 gt fiero: i staht your 89; fiero GTP in your sig
Hehe... FieroGTP was taken so I took Fiero GTS, since I also love the Toyota Celica GTS...but the Fiero more.
Actually I grew up in a 87GT. Miss that car. Planning on building a 88GT V8. As for the sig....it's temporary only. Picked two of the 89 Prototypes I liked, and the pic of the Red one out of a book I have.
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11:15 PM
Feb 26th, 2002
avengador1 Member
Posts: 35468 From: Orlando, Florida Registered: Oct 2001
A bit of advice WCF. You seem to be a good guy but you should heed Archie's advice and dump this "customer" from hell. We have dealt with similar people in our busines and I can personally tell you that they will leave you holding the bag. It sounds like a shitty deal all the way around. Archie was lucky to get this deadbeats car out of his shop when he did (the guy is lucky that Archie didn't charge him for storage). You should not get involved with this guy, because as you said ,it wouldn't pass emissions. This guy might hold you responsible for this, and use this as an excuse to not pay you. Run, don't walk, and get this red herring as far from you as possible. Good luck.
------------------
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08:12 PM
PFF
System Bot
Mar 29th, 2002
KissMySSFiero Member
Posts: 5544 From: Tarpon Springs, FL USA Registered: Nov 2000
Where's the Fino? I wanna see the Fino! Don't care about pissing contests, who's right or wrong about a dubious "customer", just want to see the Fino, finished. ALERT: OPINION: If you want a v8 Fiero, Archie's the man, or the kit; if you want a 3800 do it yourself or take it wherever you want if you don't want to get your hands dirty. NOBODY should, in my opinion, outright COPY someone else's work. There has to be more than one way to do most everything, or we would only have FORDS! IF you make something that someone else makes, and you did the work yourself, that's not copying. If you took the other guys parts and just duplicated them, that's copying. Both situations happen, that's why we have patents, and copywrites.
I would just like to see this thread get back on it's original track.
Where's the Fino?
------------------ Have a good one!
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05:30 PM
Jun 10th, 2002
Archie Member
Posts: 9436 From: Las Vegas, NV Registered: Dec 1999
Originally posted by Archie: Eric wants this thread back to the top.
BUMP!!!
Holy smokes this is some hardore sh1t with archie definitely doing some homework on it! Its too bad things have to resort to this but i must give my hats off to archie and the defense (resonse to the pics) he gave!
Lesson learned ...Dont mess with archie!
------------------ Kerm 86 GT 86 2M4
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12:54 PM
West Coast Fiero Member
Posts: 2044 From: Los Angeles, CA, USA Registered: Jun 2001
I've already sworn off buying parts directly from WCF after the 89/90 Fiero incident.
(Hey Chris West - Remember the phone call I made in March to ask if you would have an exhaust system in stock for an '88 V6 prior to my flying out there? What was that you said? "Sure!" Remember me saying "Good - I want to see one of these in person!" and you said "No problem." 3000 miles later and what do I find when I have my Visa in hand? No exhaust in stock. Silly me - what WAS I thinking?)
I'll seek alternate sources or build my own before I buy anything from these guys. I wouldn't trust them to put gas in my car.
Btw Archie - pi$$ poor or not, at least you got SOME sort of an apology! There's 4 of us that got D!CK from them ....
[This message has been edited by Boomtastic (edited 06-11-2002).]
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07:29 PM
Archie Member
Posts: 9436 From: Las Vegas, NV Registered: Dec 1999
Originally posted by Boomtastic: I've already sworn off buying parts directly from WCF after the 89/90 Fiero incident.
Btw Archie - pi$$ poor or not, at least you got SOME sort of an apology! There's 4 of us that got D!CK from them ....
You know, I think these kids just go out and get all drunk or High. Then instead of going home and sleeping it off they get on PFF and make fools out of themselves. When they sober up, they read their own words and try to make themselves look like they are not total idiots. Sometimes Eric will make a post that halfway makes sense, but it's just a diversion from another post he made where he said something stupid the night before.
He wonders why this thread came back to the top, he forgets that he's the one who brought up the Esposito subject. On the 89/90 Fiero incident they now claim that you all had a good time out there. They don't think anyone remembers the threads that went on "Live" that weekend where they abused their guests. They think we are to dumb to look up their old posts. They think we are as blind to what's going on as their parents are.
The funny thing is that they actually can't understand (or admit) what went wrong with the 89/90 Fiero trip.
"apologize"?, Nope, these spoiled kids are way too full of themselves to ever offer a heartfelt apology for their actions.
I think it's funny when they make their "under the influence" posts and bring up old threads that prove to everybody just how screwed up they really are.
Heck this is WAY better than the Comedy Channel.
Archie
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09:35 PM
Sleeper Member
Posts: 726 From: Torrance, Ca Registered: Mar 2000
i remember that museum trip...it was soooo fun. thirty six people had a good time except the four people from the east coast who decided to get wasted by themselves instead of going to the after party and who didn't say a word til they came back on PFF. you say you were dealt wrong but only a sucka would come three thousand miles to see a fiero.
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09:41 PM
Archie Member
Posts: 9436 From: Las Vegas, NV Registered: Dec 1999
Originally posted by Sleeper: i remember that museum trip...it was soooo fun. thirty six people had a good time except the four people from the east coast who decided to get wasted by themselves instead of going to the after party and who didn't say a word til they came back on PFF. you say you were dealt wrong but only a sucka would come three thousand miles to see a fiero.
DO NOT start with them. Those are my friends you're talking about. That's four people that I would trust with my life, so don't even start.
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10:41 PM
Capt Fiero Member
Posts: 7657 From: British Columbia, Canada Registered: Feb 2000
What happend to the build a fino thread. Granted all I was doing was skimming the pics, and I regret stopping to read page 3. I love to see step by step car builds.
------------------ David 85GT
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11:15 PM
Jun 12th, 2002
West Coast Fiero Member
Posts: 2044 From: Los Angeles, CA, USA Registered: Jun 2001
Originally posted by Jaygee79: DO NOT start with them. Those are my friends you're talking about. That's four people that I would trust with my life, so don't even start.
I myself felt rather honored to have them fly all the way out just to attend an event with us. It was unfortunate the way the whole thing turned out, but I would fly out there and do an event with them any time, work permitting
Originally posted by Archie: Heck this is WAY better than the Comedy Channel.
Archie
Could someone post a link to the thread about the 89/90 incident? Fascinating stuff...
And all this foo-raw makes me re-think even having a link to West Coast Fieros' web site in my bookmark list. Speaking as a newbie (I got over a hundred posts now tho! ) I can vouch for the "outsider" point of view. WCF does not make themselves look very good....
Ed
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03:54 AM
Boomtastic Member
Posts: 2359 From: Athens, Alabama Registered: May 2000
Originally posted by Sleeper: i remember that museum trip...it was soooo fun. thirty six people had a good time except the four people from the east coast who decided to get wasted by themselves instead of going to the after party and who didn't say a word til they came back on PFF. you say you were dealt wrong but only a sucka would come three thousand miles to see a fiero.
. 
