quote Originally posted by gielamonster: I'm suprized none of you have heard about or are using an I-Opener.

Geez, close yer eyes for 5-6 years and look what technology becomes. Last time I paid any attention to new products DVD was being advertised for computers and it sucked and I said, "Enough supporting this garbage."

The only problem I see with the I-opener is that it doesnt have any IO ports except USB.

Anyone got any Ideas on how to work with USB?

In theory couldnt a guy (very ambitious guy) build a USB device that monitors IO? That is really what the whole purpose of USB is, extreme flexability.

Any Ideas? Any Triple-E's (engineer thing) out there?

JesterFox

I have an I-opener and it has two serial ports inside, you just have to solder up the connectors. There is also an ide header inside for hard drives. Mines for sale "in the box" for $99 if anyones interested. It's not modded except for a new bios soldered to the board so you can enable the ide controller( had one of my friends who repairs car stereos & TVs do it for me) It also comes with the ac adapter, but my friend also soldered wires to the board to hook up to 12v

You can find all you will want to know about the I-Opener here: http://www.linux-hacker.net/cgi-bin/UltraBoard/UltraBoard.pl

[This message has been edited by cancerkazoo (edited 08-05-2002).]

I have a Thinkpad (486 DX4-100) with no power cord, the cost of buying a cable from IBM was going to be almost 3x what I paid for the laptop.

so it's sitting in a box.

I have 2 options for it, strip it for parts and use the screen in a car, etc.
or.. sell it for dirt cheap so someone else might be able to use it. (I'm not about to spend $200+ on a freakin power cord)

any suggestions about how I might use the parts? or anyone interested in buying it?

------------------
steve@digitalfusion.on.ca
http://www.fieroproject.com

quote Originally posted by DaRkLoRD: any suggestions about how I might use the parts? or anyone interested in buying it?

Go to radio shack and get a cord that will work. I am sure they can put something together for you. Get the specs off the adapter first. If the shack cant handle it, find a bigger local electronics place. Call all the local PC Repair shops and ask if they have one laying around.

The question is, how are you going to mount it in the car when you are done? Couldnt you wire some thing up to control power spikes, and plug it directly into the battery? Dont stinkpads have a cigarette lighter adapter that is nothing more then a cord?

Give ya 35$ for it.

JesterFox

quote Originally posted by jesterfox': ...It seems that every time I touch it I wish that I would have left it alone

And I've felt this every day for 1 1/2 years.

Well, this thread has inspired me to work on my carputer, that and the 100* heat I installed the window , started making my own "round" cables for better air flow, and arranging the fan controller sensors and wires. Just about done. Just have to extend some wires and finish the anti-vibration drive bays. Its a bit heavier than I thought, but still less than the spare tire and jack cr@p and 10lbs lighter than my desktop computers

I used to buy and hack I-Openers and epods (windows CE machine).

I-Openers SUCK! They have passive matrix screens that you can't see if there's any light on them... especially sunlight. They are NOT worth the investment at all!!

Take it from someone who has bought 45 at one time.

Well Guys,

I think you have awakened a beast here. I thought I was the only one to ever want to mod out a Fiero in this way. Guess everything happens for a reason. I started a project about 7 years ago to do what you are talking about, engine management, system control, etc.

A few differences to note -

I was using Turbo Pascal, a $1000 486DX 55Mhz desktop machine (yes full size monitor was sitting in the passenger seat), and a 1988 Chevy pickup. I got as far as frying a new $500 Jacobs ignition system, melting every wire you can imagine in the truck, and heating my new Optimus CD player so hot the knob melted off and fell to the floor. (which was a strange coincidence considering the same thing happened to my head when my dad found out about my lil project... ouch)

Needless to say, I have been gunshy for many years concerning tinkering with embedded systems and the like of todays high tech autos. BUT... Ah the Fiero. Similar to many I have liked this little car since it came out. And anyone who likes a good Fiero, loves a modded one! (Well me at least) So.....

COUNT ME IN

I would like to get involved with some kind of collaborative project base for a Digital Fiero Management System of some kind. I notice AgaricX lives in Bryan, (prolly an Aggie of some breed hehe), and like him, I have some pretty heavy RDMS experience that may come in handy. I could also... relearn.... C.. Plus... Plus... if I had to . I am open to suggestion as to what kind of system, sensors, displays, etc. we can use. My sword, er I mean - My code is yours. Maybe there is an Electrical Engineer somewhere out there that can spearhead our little project? Or maybe just an old school hacker that can burn an Embedded Circuit with one hand? Either way, this would be a great project to team up with other Fiero Heads on. Who knows... Maybe our design with fuel a new wave of Fieromania leaving Pontiac with no choice but to build and release new Fieros... Or.. Maybe we can just brag about how smart we are to everyone else when we get it done .

Keep this post going. I know we can do this!

--Will

Shout Out ----> TEXAS PRIDE

Hey everone just a thought here but how about starting out with a pocket PC as a base instead. They can take more temperature variations, are low power and the ones with a CF slot you can add an IO card to. I am no expert but what do you think.

An update on my computer...

GPS, LCD touchscreen, all works now Have to wait until I fix the A/C so I can install it.

I found an I/O card that works off the printer port...which may be better suited for me, but I have to look into it more.

[This message has been edited by Joe Torma (edited 08-27-2002).]

Hey hey, don't count me out!

Wow Joe, I thought we were the only folks out there even considering this project.

I spent some time away and wow, what a collection of ideas.

*laugh* I even thought about that nightvision stuff, we must be thinkin' on the same wave or something... the fix for that could be buying a few of the Infrared LED's, 5 or s. **low power required** and mount them in a projection style pod.. say a highly reflective dish with a "zoom" lense, turn the lights on- can't tell they're on, and grab one of those home security cameras that can see the IR wave lenght, and boddabing bodda boom ya gotta IR. The home security systems use VCRs and such also, so you have the ability to s-video and such.. so, just thought I would through that out there...

Anyway, I saw this had kinda slowed a little and decided to jump on.

By the way Joe, what is the status on your car?

------------------

I have wanted to do this for about 4 years. Have a car completely monitored and controlled by a computer. Just never had the funds or the time.

I'd forgotten about this thread!

I'm going to check around for a power cable for my DX4-100 laptop.. if I can't find one locally, then yeah.. $35+ s/h sounds good.

------------------
steve@digitalfusion.on.ca

I'm an Aggie, sure enough. But I work for A&M.

I'm 150% interested in this project. I have LCDs to spare. Computers to spare.

No time to spare.... Grant proposals and junk.

I love it I have wanted to do this for a couple of years now. How I want to do it is replace the dash with an tft laptop screen and a nice GUI interface and have the "desktop" show gauges and monitoring systems with diferent setups for diferent types of driving conditions. And on the fly interactive constant tuning tied to air temp, pressure, humidity, and exaust gas makeup.
I think I want to use at least a 1 gighz laptop running linx or OS2 with a cell modem and a 12volt chargeing adapter for the laptop. and I like the idea of monitering the battery charge and restarting the car to keep it charged and as a byproduct you keep the engine oil circulated if it is stored for long periods (like winter)
Now voice recognition makes many things possible (remember knight rider). I remember a site I looked at over a year ago that showed a lookalike "KIT" with a nice dash setup.

Makes me go "HHHHHMMMMMMM"

Just my 2 cents worth..

Here's what I am toying with at the mo:

Rip out instrument panel and replace with an LCD screen (ok, rip is maybe too strong a word but you know what I mean).

Build a 'pc' using components that use the PC/104 format. This is a 'single board computer' format that results in a pc that is about 4 inches square!

Either build an analog to digital interface for the gauges/speedos etc or use a ready made pc/104 format one to capture the variable signals and straight buffered on/off type logic for the idiot lights etc.

I've found a free DOS OS called (funnily enough) Freedos so I can stay away from Micro$oft. I am using a C graphics library called Allegro for the grahics stuff (also free) and compiling using a protected mode DOS compiler (DJGPP) that gives a 'flat' structure to the applications programs so no messing about with segments etc.

I am building the graphics for the console using POVRAY which is a free 3d ray tracing program.

I got an instrument panel off of ebay for 30 bucks so I can play about with the VSS signals etc 'cos I know there is some circuitry on the ip that processes it and feeds it back to the ECM.

Don't you just love the internet and all this free stuff.

So far this is mostly research as I seem to be spending all my free time fixing whatever else has broken on the dang car.
Still, it a plan!!

Dave http://www.ltlfrari.com

Here's the panel so far:

[This message has been edited by ltlfrari (edited 09-08-2002).]

I agree this should be a group project. It should be fully documented. The code should be downloadable as well as the plans. All hardware should be readily available and not a hack job. If you are going to do something this involved it should be done right. Think Linux project with open soure and not a microcrap attitude.

My A/C is all together and working so as soon as I put the radiator support back in, I can focus on the computer. I have a bundle of wires that need to go from the front compartment to the dash...got most of them together.

I have to make an enclosure for the monitor and have to figure out the mounting(I want it to swivel a little).

The computer controlling the car is cool, but I don't want to completely do away with the manual systems, I'll have voice/touch control, but as an added feature.

I agree with the open source and LCD panel suggestions. With the LCD panel, the end user could modify gauge placement, color, etc.

I am searching for some I/O stuff and extra LCD screens to toy with.

--Will

I humbly suggest we keep the hardware to a standard. LCD screens should either use a composite or svga input. Stray away from using displays that require custom cables and drivers, such as serial or midi port controlled LCD screens. We have a chance to give back to the forum and this should be done so that a novice can download the code and piece together the hardware. Not just the select few. I am not saving my arse. I have an Associate degree in EET and I have written code for Intel, Motorolla, PIC processors.

[This message has been edited by dennis_6 (edited 09-09-2002).]

Sounds good, not too bad folks. If any of you are needing graphics designed for your programs, such as start up logos, or program interface layouts, I could assist you with that.

If 3d studio max was a gene, I was born with it. Needless to say, I have a large knowledge of how the program works, and I am ranked 14th in the nation, the United States that is.., in 3d Visualization/Animation (Skills-USA)

So, if any of you are considering GUI (Graphic User Interface) style programs, let me know what I can do for you.

------------------

As before, I'm in 110%

quote LCD screens should either use a composite or svga input. Stray away from using displays that require custom cables and drivers, such as serial or midi port controlled LCD screens.

I'm sure they'll be standard SVGA input. Composite LCDs don't give the rez that digital ones do.

As for serial / LPT / MIDI port LCDs... the only ones I've seen are ancient monochromes and current character LCDs.

There' another idea... In my Maxima (current project car) I have an indiglo backlit character LCD displaying MP3 song title information, time, CPU temperature... etc. It runs off a serial port and the programming is ultra-simplistic. You can always output data in that manner... take a little load off the TFT LCD. It looks SHARP. We could easily get tons of info cycling or user-switchable displayed on there. Use the TFT for the important stuff.

Maybe we should design a core that everyone on this forum is capable of building. From there we could design modules that would be posted on the net with the plans and software available for download. That way people of varying skill levels will be able to participate.

quote Originally posted by AgaricX: I have an indiglo backlit character LCD displaying MP3 song title information, time, CPU temperature... etc.

got pics?

------------------
steve@digitalfusion.on.ca

AgaricX
I have a couple of those character LCDs. What inverter did you use? Where did you get it? Mine are 4x40 Optrex MDLS40466-HT-HV-G-LED04G?

Sure will.

I'm have 3 custom cables put made. They should be done Friday. I have it up and running, but ugly and semi-dissasembled.

I'll take a WHOLE LOT of pics this weekend when it all gets put back together.

In fact... one will be in my signature.

------------------
86 Fastback (SOON hopefully, ROB!!!)

1999 Nissan Maxima GTR :) (336 FWHP Turbo)
1999 Eclipse GSX AWD Turbo (Wife's Car)

some input from another compu-car junky.

going with a PC104 or other small system design is good. perhaps trovalski's<sp?> new project those arm tops that only run portions of the CPU based of need. but anyways. to keep it cheeper, PC104, or any other small based boards. we don't need a high chip speed either, so running 200-400mzh would be fine and cooler then the latest greatest. go with a linux kernal, on a laptop HD (they take bounces much better then standard IDEs) the key to making the IO though... USB. I could be done via a comm port, but I think it'd take a lot more work on the I/O control device.

as far as the voltage problem with the board and the car. 1st, run a second battery, it doesn't need to be too robust as it's only job is to give the board suspend level power, and initial boot up power. using this battery as a capacitor on the line should also help minimise voltage variations while the car is running. but better to be safe, a small set of line conditioners should be set up to make sure the v's stay solid at 5 and 12. as for boot up, do it like the fuel pump, with a stripped down kernal, it'll boot fast, and off the 2nd battery which would have to be cut off from the rest of the circuit at this time to avoide the sudden draw from the starter. true, if the computer was off when you started the car, you may have to wait 5 seconds for it to load before the car will start but hey, that's not that bad of a deal.

ahh well, that's just my bable.

If we want people to be able to use it readily... we'd have to stick with Microsoft or a derivative.

linux, despite its advantages, just has no basic-end support.

Guys, listen to be honest I think PC 104 is WAYYYYY TOO EXPENSIVE!!

Mini ITX is the WAY to go.... Mostly because it has a 12V power supply ALREADY!! Just plug 12V into it! If you get the version that uses an external power supply, it comes with a regular 12V power jack on the back.

The 2677R ITX case would work PERFECT, fit behind the passenger seat near the bottom and not take up any foot room
http://www.procase.com.tw/2677.htm

Mobo comes from VIA http://www.via.com.tw/en/VInternet/mini_itx.jsp

I've used them, they are Super fast for what we wanna do.

As for your guages panel, the only way to do that, is to pump the sensor data DIRECTLY into an interface box and then send the data serially to the PC... I have done alot of work with the ALDL connector, the data there has a CONSIDERABLE delay, not good enough for digital guages.

------------------
Justin C.
87 GT, 350 V8, 4:10 4spd ???HP
Ported/Polished/Balanced/Blueprinted
Holley 650 Double Pump / GearDrive
Mobile Electronics Certified Professional - MECP Master Installer
MCP, MCSE+I, A+, NNCE.
Engineer, Designer and Technical Trainer for Nortel Networks Business Products.

I thought of pc104 'cos it's what I found first when I did a search and as this is a me only project (so far) why the heck not although I'll probably use an old notebook I have lying around initially.
Many PC104 SBC's can also use a DiskOnChip as a hard drive. Basically an EEPROM that emulates a hard drive so no vibration worries.
I'll take a looksee at these mini itx things tho.
At the momment the OS is pretty irrelevant, just need something that boots quickly, don't want to wait 5 mins for windoze to boot before you can drive your car do you, and I guess the blue screen of death really could spell DEAD it it happened at the wrong time.

Things could well change before I get to that stage though. cash may be diverted to the fixing the ruddy a/c (again) before I get much further.
Always something new to fix !!

Nice thing about pc104 tho is that you can get boards that support a variety of cpu's from 386 all the way to pentium, and it is small, plenty of peripheral support etc.

Dave http://www.ltlfrari.com

[This message has been edited by ltlfrari (edited 09-11-2002).]

No Intel Inside!

Here is a way to do this:

Use a Via Cyrix processor, 700 mhz and 34$, requires no heatsink, and is used by the military so if that isnt a good enough approval, also win2k professional is the way to go, believe me when i say this is by far the easiest and most reliable OS you can get your hands on.

*Windows XP is better then windows 98

Also, there are a wide variety of mini cases you can buy.

I would recommend using plexi-glass and if anyone of you know anyone with a CNC milling operation, I can produce the autocad drawings for them to use. Then this way you have 1/2 inch plexi glass which is durable, cheap, and looks cool. Also you can add in 2 neons for extra style, (already done this), next off you can attach an lcd screen, up to 4 X 40 characters, (the green indiglo they have on credit card machines, etc.....) to the parallel port, and eithor use current programs out on the internet or make your own to display whatever information you want on the screen, I know there is one for winamp, and the song track and title as well as a graphic equalizer.

I will get you guys some links so you can dig in farther.

------------------
Looking for mine........

Wow, back to life.. More excellent Ideas. Using a laptop display to replace the instriment cluster (speedo/tach) thats an awesome idea. I am not so sure how it would work, but definately interesting.

I hate to say that I agree or disagree with anyone's point of view.. as I hate microsoft and love linux just as much as anyone else does.. And I think PC104 is cool stuff...

However, I would probably use that cheap ITX computer with good fans and a cushioned ide drive, laptop IDE if I can make it work with the ITX board.

I would use the input circuits discussed earlier (up to 16 per Serial COM port) with an AEM programmable ECU. I would run the system on Win95 and the software would be written in Visual Basic.

w95 and vb are for simplicity. I know linux is better and c++ is faster.. But for the task at hand, I believe these are the tools that would be the best to use. As for win 2k or XP or 98... I dont want this thing crashing every couple miles. I can strip win95 down to nothing and make it reliable. The others are far too complicated (excessively so) to be of use in an application like this, unless you had the hardware to back it up (once again excessive.)

Just my opinion. I do agree that it should be documented and shared. As soon as I have time/money and the rest of my car put together.. I would certainly share anything I ever accomplished.

Here is what I am going to use...
http://www.stealthcomputer.com/pdfs/LPC-101-DATASHEET.pdf

------------------
Justin C.
87 GT, 350 V8, 4:10 4spd ???HP
Ported/Polished/Balanced/Blueprinted
Holley 650 Double Pump / GearDrive
Mobile Electronics Certified Professional - MECP Master Installer
MCP, MCSE+I, A+, NNCE.
Engineer, Designer and Technical Trainer for Nortel Networks Business Products.

I was just going to use the laptop for development, not to replace the console at this stage. The one I have is black and white(ish) and not very bright. The idea is to hook it up in parallel with the existing ip so I can compare the two.
Like I say, this is all a long way off for me yet.

I ws thinking of somewthing like this for the display:
http://www.amcuk.com/AMC-LCD-KIT.shtml

This kit (LCD-KIT01) seems pretty common if you do a search on the net for it, although it may be phyically too big, even at this size.
I know I would have to redesigh the instrument pod to accomodate the extra height but hey, what else do I have to do ('cept fix the ac again, get the windshild fixed, walk the dog, say hello to the wife!!!!)

Dave http://www.ltlfrari.com

http://www.stealthcomputer.com/pdfs/LPC-101-DATASHEET.pdf

the item above is good, spoke with them but $1000 ? Gimmie a break, not really want I want to spend on JUST hardware.

I know there is a solution out there for us, if someone can find a PC/104 cheap with PIII then we are set....

Nice thing about the ITX platform is the cases are available with 12V power sources

INVERTERS ARE OUT OF THE QUESTION - They put out REALLY dirty power

I would have to agree with Klax on this one. I think that the best way to work the computer would be to make a Ram drive, with a large partition for the programs, with about 200-300mbs of ram remaining. That would be plenty for running a car-puter. Plus, like Klax was saying, instant loading, that's what you need on a car that turns on and off. The only thing that would hold you back while starting your car would be your BIOS, and even those you can shadow with a picture of sorts. Such as, it could say Fiero, for about the 5 seconds the BIOS would be running then, Boom, windows is open.. Within seconds more, the program that you have setup to startup, jumps on, and you're ready to roll. How much better can you get? And if you want more space for any other type of media, then you could just slap a hard drive on, and use that for storage of the less vital system files.

Oh! And by the way, the best looking setup I've seen on an interior is the Licoln continental gauge cluster.. The needles are behind a shiny, transluecent, plastic film that is angled towards the driver. The angle is somewhere around the range of 45 or 50 degrees with the base closest to the driver and the top resessed into the dash. So that while the car is off, you see no needles, and no guagues are present. Turn the car on, and the needles turn red, moments later, the light which contains the actual guage faces above the angled film turns on, giving the appearance that the numbers are holographic. It's awesome. You could achieve the same thing with the fiero. With much greater success, well maybe. Anyway, you would use an LCD mounted horizontally, much like the lincolns. That way, it would look very holographic, and very sexy. The only thing I can think of is that if you were to do the conversion to the LCD, you would have to find a way to calibrate the computer to read the speed and Tach approprately so that the computer could represent the needles on the screen. So lets say it's put together, while you are driving, to save the screens from getting too burn in from the same screen the whole time, just install a small screen saver that updates live with the car specs... or just fake car specs and a 3d picture of a fiero rotating around, it would look very very very, hot. And you could still retain the speed and such on the screen some how also.. I'll throw something together in photoshop soon to show you what I'm saying.

Now, I would agree though, that there is a large need of ports that are needed to correctly measure all of the operations that go on in a car. Doors, Locks, Windows, Trunk, Wipers, AC (and how to change from ac to heat), Radio, Lights, Fuel guage, guages.. *if you have an LCD for the guagues*, GPS *if you felt inclined*, Alarm system, Fog lights----And all of this is before you even begin to measure anything on the motor, with the exception of the guages. So, as you were saying Jester, it will require plenty of programing, somewhat simple with those on and off style scripts, but as far as everthing else goes, that seems like some task. (But well worth it)

------------------

http://www.computergate.com/products/item.cfm?prodcd=HDRCM2677B

Here is the ITX I am looking at, it could be mounted in the trunk, or behind the passenger for easy access.

As for the screens for the guages. I woudl recommend a VFD and not LCD. Althought not sure on getting the

SIGNALS to them, but they are more durable, and built for that kinda task. I know Volvo and Kenworth use them in

their Rigs, and I have one connected to my PC, but the only software I have for it is to put small text, and the

one I have is too small.

The AMC solution is nice, and nice to have, but I want something that EVERY fiero owner on the board will

want/use/afford.. Key word is AFFORD.

Here is the way I see this happening. We need someone to write the software. Forget Linux, I know it's best, I

know it rocks, I use it daily but we need something EVERYONE can debug.

The user will be responsible for loading their own flavour of windows, but I would like to see it Win2K based.

The Digital Guage display should be parallel or serial or USB line driven, this way we can still have a REAL VGA

or TV display running the cool toys like MP3, DVD, and Navigation.
http://www.crystalfontz.com/products/320240c/index.html#CFAG320240CFMIT

The above link for a crystalfontz VFD is perfect, they are $142 each, which is pretty cheap, nice thing is, it's

available in EL blue, green ,white, yellow, all sorts of backlit colours, lots of LCD modes, negative, so we can

STILL have all the looks that people want. It has a 320x240 res, which isn't bad! PERFECT for guages. It's

operating temp is -20 --> +80 Celcius, ULTRA high. The only issue is, NO INTERFACE...

What I think would be cool is http://www.matrixorbital.com/products/glc24064.htm

This one has a built in SERIAL INTERFACE! Plus it has a GPO (Relay controllable from the PC! Meaning you could

turn something on/off from your computer, Like, LIGHTS, Windows, A/C fan)

Next we need someone to find some hardware that can understand the PPM signal coming from the Speedo. I'm not

good with TTL technology and reading into a PC. So we need someone on the hardware side and someone on the

software side. Something that is VB based would be perfect, easy to modify....

Comments?

[This message has been edited by grinthock (edited 09-12-2002).]